75th Anniversary

[Unkotare]

... Unconditional surrender bay-bee!!

The Bud Light Breakfast Club publishes another scholarly paper.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

After the second BOMB they did not surrender either the Emperor over rode the Government and ordered the surrender and then the army staged a Coup to stop that.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

After the second BOMB they did not surrender either the Emperor over rode the Government and ordered the surrender and then the army staged a Coup to stop that.

True, but it was only a small portion of the imperial guard and some war ministers. The others wanted to surrender when they realized the destructive power of the bombs.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

After the second BOMB they did not surrender either the Emperor over rode the Government and ordered the surrender and then the army staged a Coup to stop that.

True, but it was only a small portion of the imperial guard and some war ministers. The others wanted to surrender when they realized the destructive power of the bombs.

The Government did NOT surrender again for the slow after 2 bombs and an invasion By the Soviets the Council did not vote to surrender.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

After the second BOMB they did not surrender either the Emperor over rode the Government and ordered the surrender and then the army staged a Coup to stop that.

True, but it was only a small portion of the imperial guard and some war ministers. The others wanted to surrender when they realized the destructive power of the bombs.

The Government did NOT surrender again for the slow after 2 bombs and an invasion By the Soviets the Council did not vote to surrender.

They surrendered after the two bombs. And russia declaring war.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

After the second BOMB they did not surrender either the Emperor over rode the Government and ordered the surrender and then the army staged a Coup to stop that.

True, but it was only a small portion of the imperial guard and some war ministers. The others wanted to surrender when they realized the destructive power of the bombs.

The Government did NOT surrender again for the slow after 2 bombs and an invasion By the Soviets the Council did not vote to surrender.

They surrendered after the two bombs. And russia declaring war.

NO the Government voted to not surrender and the Emperor over ruled them.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

After the second BOMB they did not surrender either the Emperor over rode the Government and ordered the surrender and then the army staged a Coup to stop that.

True, but it was only a small portion of the imperial guard and some war ministers. The others wanted to surrender when they realized the destructive power of the bombs.

The Government did NOT surrender again for the slow after 2 bombs and an invasion By the Soviets the Council did not vote to surrender.

They surrendered after the two bombs. And russia declaring war.

NO the Government voted to not surrender and the Emperor over ruled them.

As was his right, constitutionally. And you are again talking about the war ministers. 6 of them. The same 6 who were negotiating peace with russia and no longer controlled attacking forces.

Point being, i think a longer delay for the second bomb would have made it unnecessary.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

After the second BOMB they did not surrender either the Emperor over rode the Government and ordered the surrender and then the army staged a Coup to stop that.

True, but it was only a small portion of the imperial guard and some war ministers. The others wanted to surrender when they realized the destructive power of the bombs.

The Government did NOT surrender again for the slow after 2 bombs and an invasion By the Soviets the Council did not vote to surrender.

They surrendered after the two bombs. And russia declaring war.

NO the Government voted to not surrender and the Emperor over ruled them.

As was his right, constitutionally. And you are again talking about the war ministers. 6 of them. The same 6 who were negotiating peace with russia and no longer controlled attacking forces.

Point being, i think a longer delay for the second bomb would have made it unnecessary.

Again after the second BOMB and an invasion they still voted NOT to surrender. And be specific now and link to a source that shows that any of the 4 Army members on the Council ever made an offer of any kind to be considered. Yes some Japanese made offers but NONE of them were from the Government the 6 ran the Government what they said was what was done.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Again after the second BOMB and an invasion they still voted NOT to surrender.

That was because they weren't ready yet, but were already negotiating surrender via Russia. 4 Army members? Wha? As I understand it, it was the Navy minister who may have been the lone military member on the council to be against not surrendering.

Again, point being, an extra delay may have rendered the second bomb unnecessary.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

They obviously had democrats in charge and a democrat media in place then.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

They obviously had democrats in charge and a democrat media in place then.

Please save your embarrassing fetishism for the 9 billion other pile of shit threads. This is a good discussion thread.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

They obviously had democrats in charge and a democrat media in place then.

Please save your embarrassing fetishism for the 9 billion other pile of shit threads. This is a good discussion thread.

You aren’t adding anything of value so fuck off.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

After the second BOMB they did not surrender either the Emperor over rode the Government and ordered the surrender and then the army staged a Coup to stop that.

True, but it was only a small portion of the imperial guard and some war ministers. The others wanted to surrender when they realized the destructive power of the bombs.

Holy shit. Maybe you did say something worthwhile.

So dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. At least you do know that.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

IT TOOK TWO BOMBS before Japan "reached out" to end the war.

Well that is one of the sticking points. They japanese leadership did not understand the devastation of the first bomb. So they were not making fully informed decisions. Had they had a full understanding, they may well have surrendered after the first bomb. Waiting a week might have allowed this to happen.

They obviously had democrats in charge and a democrat media in place then.

Please save your embarrassing fetishism for the 9 billion other pile of shit threads. This is a good discussion thread.

You aren’t adding anything of value so fuck off.

Well that's a gem of an opinion from Mister "There is no moral discussion to be had, so everyone should stfu".

Maybe take your own advice.

 

[Unkotare]

... dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. ....

"Admiral William Leahy, White House chief of staff and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the war. Leahy wrote in his 1950 memoirs that "the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender." Moreover, Leahy continued, "in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children." "

Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins

Almost six decades after the fact, the 1945 unleashing of an atomic bomb on Hiroshima continues to be the subject of impassioned debate. Every year the bombing anniversary — which falls on August 6 — occasions heated exchanges between those who question the atomic bombing and those who...

origins.osu.edu

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. At least you do know that.

Hmm, see, that's where it gets murky. Yes, if you point at two endpoints just before and after, that is true. But in the larger context, surrender was coming. And was helped along by many events before the bombs. Remember, these same japanese ministers who did not want to surrender didn't want to surrender YET under the terms demanded.

So while we can definitely credit the bombs for expediency, it is still fair to talk about whether or not we can do better and do better next time. Because as surely as it was bound to happen the first time, it is going to happen again. We will again be confronted with the prospect of a nuclear exchange somewhere in the world.

And we had best be able to convince everyone not to use ANY. If you havent already, go watch a vid or read an article on the global effects of a "small" nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan. It is good to revisit and look for ways to end it both without 1 million Allied casualties and without targeting and killing 100,000 civilians with two bombs.

 

[beautress]

Nagasaki and Hiroshima put an end to the war begun the morning of December 7, 1941ad.

The two bombs effectively stopped predatory warmongers from killing millions in the two participating countries. Laws of mercy. Doing the math should bring comfort to all concerned. Honest.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

... dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. ....

"Admiral William Leahy, White House chief of staff and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the war. Leahy wrote in his 1950 memoirs that "the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender." Moreover, Leahy continued, "in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children." "

Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins

Almost six decades after the fact, the 1945 unleashing of an atomic bomb on Hiroshima continues to be the subject of impassioned debate. Every year the bombing anniversary — which falls on August 6 — occasions heated exchanges between those who question the atomic bombing and those who...

origins.osu.edu

Leahy was an idiot. Hard to believe any military man could think wars shouldn’t or don’t hurt women and children. No war is won or lost without it. So we killed a bunch of Japanese women and their kids to end a war their country started. And we did that for our own women and their children that were sent to fight it.

How many of our own women needed to sacrifice their children? I don’t give a shit about the Japs. How many of our women needed their lives ruined by losing their sons before you get your head out of your ass.

Women and children always pay the price for wars. My concern is for the US ones. You seem more concerned about the Japs.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

So dropping the bombs was the absolute reason for a full surrender and ending the war. At least you do know that.

Hmm, see, that's where it gets murky. Yes, if you point at two endpoints just before and after, that is true. But in the larger context, surrender was coming. And was helped along by many events before the bombs. Remember, these same japanese ministers who did not want to surrender didn't want to surrender YET under the terms demanded.

So while we can definitely credit the bombs for expediency, it is still fair to talk about whether or not we can do better and do better next time. Because as surely as it was bound to happen the first time, it is going to happen again. We will again be confronted with the prospect of a nuclear exchange somewhere in the world.

And we had best be able to convince everyone not to use ANY. If you havent already, go watch a vid or read an article on the global effects of a "small" nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan. It is good to revisit and look for ways to end it both without 1 million Allied casualties and without targeting and killing 100,000 civilians with two bombs.

So what? They were going to surrender eventually. How long? How many more US deaths? It’s a guessing game isn’t it. The one sure chess move we had ended it immediately. That’s how it’s done.

Today the way to avoid a war like you describe is overwhelming firepower and a willingness to use it. That’s what stops world wars.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Again after the second BOMB and an invasion they still voted NOT to surrender.

That was because they weren't ready yet, but were already negotiating surrender via Russia. 4 Army members? Wha? As I understand it, it was the Navy minister who may have been the lone military member on the council to be against not surrendering.

Again, point being, an extra delay may have rendered the second bomb unnecessary.

You are wrong and the Japanese were trying to make an alliance with the Soviets AGAINST the US. They were not trying to surrender.