53% of Democrats Hold a Favorable View of Socialism

[Rigby5]

The government usually had those, even when the police were knights, and the roads were dirt, that was feudalism, not socialism.

the roads are only the path of transport, not the trucks, not the drivers, not the cargo (mostly).

One insurer only, and that being the government IS socialism.

Wrong.

Knight were only federal if the country was attacked.
They usually were local, fed and housed by barons.
But knights are a bad example, because they imply feudalism, monarchies, etc.

And roads were NOT dirt.
The best roads were built by the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc.
They were always socialism.
Roads are not just the path, but the right of way through thousands of different land owners, layers of stone, bridges, fences, etc.

There is NEVER just one insurer, and there is never supposed to ever be any insurer at all.
Socialism is where the people pay the doctors and nurses directly, regardless of who needs health care that is provided for free.
An insurer implies prepaying, which is a horrendous rip off.
Never prepay anything, since then you lose all means of effecting or complaining about cost or quality.
The best way is always socialism, where you collectively accumulate means of covering health care overhead, and retain total say over cost and quality, through elected representatives.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Everyone of us take advantage of socialist institutions, schools, infrastructure, military, social security, Medicare, fire departments, police. Every government agency that serves us is a form of socialism.

You people are absolute dumbasses.

I have to wonder at some asshole who says anyone who disagrees with his premise of “all government actions are socialism” is a “dumbass.”

Pure projection? Insanity? Both?

By your definition Ancient Rome was socialist and the kingdom of Egypt was socialist and everything else ever that wasn’t anarchy was socialist. A nightwatchman state isn’t “socialist.” Police and courts and military aren’t “socialist.”

Public schools and Medicare are socialist, which is why you don’t see me supporting either.

 

[Rigby5]

No, it replaces it with a bloated bureaucracy, which is just as bad. And then they figure they can save money by skimping on care, because you have no where else to go. Beggars make great customers.


Police and roads are not socialism. Again, means of production.

Wrong.
First of all, while government can create a bloated bureaucracy, it is still the best because you can change government by voting. When the bloated bureaucracy is private, like MicroSoft, you can't do a thing about it, since they have the wealthy to control government.
Second is that socialized medicine never skimps because there is no profit motive to entice them to cheat.
Its is not their money, and there is no advantage to skimp.
Nor does socialized medicine imply no alternative.
Everywhere with socialized medicine also have private alternatives.

Police and roads most definitely ARE socialism.
First of all, socialism is NOT just the means of production, but anything useful to everyone.
And second is that since at one time or another there were toll roads and private security like Pinkerton, police and roads definitely ARE a "means of production".
All a "means of production" requires is something people want that you can sell them.

 

[Soupnazi630]

No one has ever denied being socialist, because all primates obviously are inherently socialist.
Humans in particular are tribal, which is even more socialist than just family sharing and cooperation.
There is no way any society can achieve any technology, like streets, harbors, bridges, schools, museums, parks, utilities, etc., without massive socialism. And that should include things like health care, pensions, etc.

Wrong.

Primates are hierarchical.

Tribalism is not socialism.

Western and in particular American society did in fact achieve all of those things with capitalism and no socialism

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
In socialism the people decide what they want to invest in shared resources.
There is no such thing as "the Sovereign", as that only applies to a dictatorship under a monarchy.
Socialism does not have to be a republic, but always is.
In no way does socialism at all imply any lack of personal property.

Anyone who does not understand that Sweden is totally socialist, does not at all understand at all what socialism is. Swedes are anti Soviet, not at all anti-socialist. Its just a language confusion. The USSR was not at all socialist, but a Stalinist, capitalist, dictatorship.

Wrong.

Socialism is dictatorial exactly as Marx described it and Sweden is not socialist period...

It is YOU who willfulyl ignores and lies about what socialism is.

The USSR was communist it was in no way caputalist. Communism IS a dictatorship

 

[Foolardi]

"Should have used black eyes peas, racist!"

Forgot about them.I don't suppose the Great Black statesman,
orator and social reformer Frederick Douglass could cotton
any black-eyed peas.I mean,at some fancy schmany dinner where
wearing white gloves is all the rage and of course soup is the first
course.In fact,I do believe even the Three Stooges mite be partial
to black-eyed peas.

 

[Soupnazi630]

You don't know what socialism or communism is at all.
Communism is sharing resources, which all families always do.
It is totally voluntary.
Which implies a democratic republic.
When you have force, that is always the profit motive, of evil capitalism.
All dictatorship are always capitalist, or else there would be no motive for them to exist.
No one would ever remotely consider creating an evil dictatorship unless there was the capitalist profit motive for it.
All socialist or communist ways of life always pretty much have to be maximum freedom of democratic republic, since there is no profit motive to corrupt it.
If there is a profit motive, inequality, or use of force, it is not socialist or communist.

You know what communism is and you lie about it willfully in order to defend it.

It is never volunatary, Always compulsory and never about sharing.

Capitalism works because it is about voluntary free trade.,

 

[Rigby5]

I have to wonder at some asshole who says anyone who disagrees with his premise of “all government actions are socialism” is a “dumbass.”

Pure projection? Insanity? Both?

By your definition Ancient Rome was socialist and the kingdom of Egypt was socialist and everything else ever that wasn’t anarchy was socialist. A nightwatchman state isn’t “socialist.” Police and courts and military aren’t “socialist.”

Public schools and Medicare are socialist, which is why you don’t see me supporting either.

If course Ancient Rome, the kingdom of Egypt, etc. were socialist.
When you do not have to privately pay police, courts, military, etc., it most definitely IS socialist.
The only difference between the things you are claiming are socialist and those which you claim are not, is that no one wants to do the things you claim are not, because it is hard to make a profit at them.
But you are totally wrong.
Any service, like police, roads, bridges, harbors, utilities, etc., that you do not have to negotiate privately, are completely socialist.

And frankly, anyone who does not support public schools and Medicare, is either evil or ignorant.

 

[rightwinger]

There is a big difference between social programs and Socialist governance.

Yes there is
There is also a big difference with pure Capitalism without Government controls.

That is why we mix Socialism with Capitalism
Some things are better accomplished collectively than as individually

 

[Rigby5]

You know what communism is and you lie about it willfully in order to defend it.

It is never voluntary, Always compulsory and never about sharing.

Capitalism works because it is about voluntary free trade.,

Wrong.
Communism is by definition voluntary sharing, like all families, tribes, religious communities, etc., do all the time.

Capitalism is only "voluntary" when heavily regulated against the profit motive just using weapons to steal the most profit.

You again are confusing economic and political systems.
Communism can only really be done under a democratic republic due to the advantages of sharing, while capitalism is where all dictatorship come from, since they are the ultimate of the profit motive.

 

[Rigby5]

Yes there is
There is also a big difference with pure Capitalism without Government controls.

That is why we mix Socialism with Capitalism
Some things are better accomplished collectively than as individually

Correct.
If not carefully controlled, the profit motive always realizes that the most profits come from using weapons to just take it all.

 

[Foolardi]

Wrong.

Primates are hierarchical.

Tribalism is not socialism.

Western and in particular American society did in fact achieve all of those things with capitalism and no socialism

The verdict is still out as to what constitutes a human.
Like since being born a male or a female is now settled science.
Where a delievering doctor gets to decide the gender of a newborn.
Talk about going backwards in civilization.
Even James Baldwin never went that deep into the psyche of
what makes a man.Watching - Nothing But a Man - { 1964 }
is now passe.

" The price of liberation of the white people is the
liberation of the Blacks -- the total liberation,in the
cities,in the towns,before the law,and in the mind. "
-- J Baldwin { speech,quoted in TIME,May 17,1963
Keeping in mind what Baldwin wrote in - Notes of a Native Son -{ 1955 }
" The world is white no longer,and it will never be
white again. "

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
Communism is by definition voluntary sharing, like all families, tribes, religious communities, etc., do all the time.

Capitalism is only "voluntary" when heavily regulated against the profit motive just using weapons to steal the most profit.

You again are confusing economic and political systems.
Communism can only really be done under a democratic republic due to the advantages of sharing, while capitalism is where all dictatorship come from, since they are the ultimate of the profit motive.

Wrong.

It is never aboiut sharing. It is about abolition of private ppoperty enslavement of all people and brute force tyranny.

Capiutalism is always voluntary even without regulation and it works. Collectivist schemes do not.

I am confusing nothing.

Communism is never and can never be done by choice only by force and mass enslavement'

Capitalism ended dictatorships communism perpetuates them

The dictatorship of the proletariate means dictatorship hence the name

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

If course Ancient Rome, the kingdom of Egypt, etc. were socialist.

You’re completely delusional.

The concepts of capitalism and socialism hadn’t remotely been defined at that point, so you trying to assign them to ancient world despots is insane.

But you are totally wrong.

No, you are.

And frankly, anyone who does not support public schools and Medicare, is either evil or ignorant.

Education is a service, not a right. Healthcare is a service, not a right. Government coercion should not be used to seize funds for charity needs for these services, and your support for stealing at gunpoint is evil. Socialist governance is a violation of the human right to property.

It isn’t ignorant - you know what you are doing - and you lie and claim that forcing people at gunpoint to buy things for someone else is moral.

 

[sartre play]

The problem is if you approve trillions of dollars of pork and payouts to mostly Prog agendas and corrupted unions and states that closed their areas down and are bankrupting themselves, then give 110 billion dollars for road bridges in which nothing has been spent yet, well I understand your socialism sentence. Trillions of dollars in legislation by Prog since the dildo was installed. And 110 billion for roads and bridges and not a dollar has been spent on anything important. Joe will give the buddy buddy he is a working-class peasant speech again. But he is not that.

Why can you not get the simple fact
that greed pork payoffs corrupt Unions or business, bank or anything else
Never Ever starts the day a political party takes power.
IT is on going ,
you must just stop looking when your party of choice has an upper hand?

 

[CowboyTed]

The problem is if you approve trillions of dollars of pork and payouts to mostly Prog agendas and corrupted unions and states that closed their areas down and are bankrupting themselves, then give 110 billion dollars for road bridges in which nothing has been spent yet, well I understand your socialism sentence. Trillions of dollars in legislation by Prog since the dildo was installed. And 110 billion for roads and bridges and not a dollar has been spent on anything important. Joe will give the buddy buddy he is a working-class peasant speech again. But he is not that.

US infrastructure is falling apart...

What do you think that was =important that it wasn't spent on? Both sides (including Trump) have being saying that US infrastructure needs help.

 

[CowboyTed]

You’re completely delusional.

The concepts of capitalism and socialism hadn’t remotely been defined at that point, so you trying to assign them to ancient world despots is insane.



No, you are.


Education is a service, not a right. Healthcare is a service, not a right. Government coercion should not be used to seize funds for charity needs for these services, and your support for stealing at gunpoint is evil. Socialist governance is a violation of the human right to property.

It isn’t ignorant - you know what you are doing - and you lie and claim that forcing people at gunpoint to buy things for someone else is moral.

Education is a right under Article 26 of the UN declaration of human rights which US is a signatory.
Healthcare is under Article 25.

So I am sorry but US Citizens enjoy the protections of human rights despite what you think..

 

[CowboyTed]

What we are concerned about is socialism via over-regulation and legislation, and then the takeover of industries.

Taking over healthcare is beyond welfare state, it's socialism. road and police are not.

So is this:

The Democrats' Plan To Nationalize Land, Democratic Socialism In Action

Stop pretending because you like something it is not socialism and if you don't it is socialism...

So like Government Police therefore no socialism, don't like Government Heathcare therefore socialism....

So is socialism bad? Are you against roads and Police?

 

[Red Front]

For years they've denied they are a pro-socialist party. Kind of hard to do that now when that view makes up the majority, isn't it?

Page 3

https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Custom-Crosstabs-Combine-Q4-and-Q5-combined.pdf

The nation is gradually moving in that direction with the Zoomers and older people like myself who support the move away from capitalism. As technology replaces wage labor and jobs become more and more scarce, there will be a necessity for America to socialize all production, taking it out of the hands of capitalists and placing it in the hands of the people (common ownership of the means of production).

 

[task0778]

You don't know what socialism or communism is at all.
Communism is sharing resources, which all families always do.
It is totally voluntary.
Which implies a democratic republic.
When you have force, that is always the profit motive, of evil capitalism.
All dictatorship are always capitalist, or else there would be no motive for them to exist.
No one would ever remotely consider creating an evil dictatorship unless there was the capitalist profit motive for it.
All socialist or communist ways of life always pretty much have to be maximum freedom of democratic republic, since there is no profit motive to corrupt it.
If there is a profit motive, inequality, or use of force, it is not socialist or communist.

A socialist country is one where the gov't explicitly or implicitly controls the economy. All of it. Or even almost all of it. Those wonderful Scandinavian countries that the Left loves so much don't do that, ergo they are NOT socialist countries.

Show me the socialist country that really does share all resources equally.
Show me the socialist country that really is totally voluntary.
Show me the socialist country that really doesn't use force.
Show me the socialist country that doesn't have a dictator.
Show me the socialist country that really has maximum freedom, now that is funny.
Show me the socialist country that doesn't use force, has no inequality, and it's ruling class isn't enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else.

The truth is that no such country exists or ever has existed. Not one. It's a myth. It's bullshit, that the Left foists on as many people as they can in order to get elected or re-elected. Vote for us and all your worries will be taken care of. Social welfare from cradle to grave and you don't have to be responsible for anything.

So - those of you on the Left, show me the socialist country you want us to emulate. Let's talk.