3 men charged with federal hate crimes in killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia

[TheGreenHornet]

It is reported that Gregory McMichael had investigated Arbery previously. I bet you he had him on his radar.

Who reported that?

Your knowledge of this case is on the same par as in the Zimmerman case.....severely lacking.

Arbury was not committing a crime on the day he died. So his death was the crime.

It does not change the fact that he was a criminal and he was persued because he was a criminal.

And, a jury will decide if his death was a crime.

I explained all that before Scooter. He was the suspect in one burglary. And the suspect because who else could it be but the black guy.

It is reported that Gregory McMichael had investigated Arbery previously. I bet you he had him on his radar.

Yes......that is one reason he was able to i.d. him so quickly as he hauled ass down the road after the police was called on him for trespassing.

Another being he had been shown the video showing Ahmaud in the house under construction.

Do you have a Florida concealed carry permit?

No

 

[TheGreenHornet]

Arbury was not committing a crime on the day he died. So his death was the crime.

It does not change the fact that he was a criminal and he was persued because he was a criminal.

And, a jury will decide if his death was a crime.

Gregory McMichael had previously investigated Arbery. Considering all the problems McMichael had with his law enforcement gig, he may very well have been unconstitutionally profiling him and/or had a beef with him.

None of that however is legal grounds for what these three racists did that day. And yeah using a racial epitaph is proof that one is a racist because people who are not, NEVER use them.

Racism is not illegal....most folks are....especially Negroes.

Irregardless what would you do if you were holding a shot gun and some white dude tried to take it away from you?

Where did you see me say it was illegal in this instance. Targeting a person due to their race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc. is an enhancement to the crime as it speaks to their motivation for having committed it.

Are you seriously going to claim that your idols aren't racist, even when they refer to black people using racial slurs? You have a explanation for why people do that if they're not racist?

You know better than me blacks constantly use racial slurs.....in fact I think most people have at one time or another......which proves nothing.

I do not claim anyone is not racist.....I have said on this board many times ....everyone is racist.

 

[SavannahMann]

So I evaluated the video wrong. Odd. The State of Georgia evaluated it the same way. The Grand Jury. The Judge. Oh and let’s not forget the actual lawyers I keep quoting who keep explaining it.

But everyone else is wrong. Only you are right. All those attorneys who defend people charged with crimes for a living don’t know what they are taking about. Some idiot who has never driven by a law school knows the law and what it says.

At this point you remind me of the Onion skit about the guy who refused to believe he had cancer.



As for my predictions? Ok. I was right about the parking lot shooter in Florida. He was convicted. I was right about Chauvin. He was convicted. I was right about the Bundy’s when the Government was caught lying. Charges dismissed.

I said the Zimmerman trial was a coin toss. And eventually the moron would end up either in prison for another charge or dead. I honestly gave a slight advantage to the state. But not much of an advantage.

I was right on the Texas Cop who walked into the wrong apartment and killed the guy.

I’ve been wrong. I thought the cop who shot the blond woman, forget both their names, would be convicted. He wasn’t. I figured they would never charge the cop who shot John Geer. They indicted and convicted him.

So I have been wrong before. But less often than I’ve been right. The reason is I make evaluations based upon what the experts are saying. It by the way is how I knew we would get hit by a hurricane days before it reached us. I listen to the experts and apply my own ideals. It prevents me from being wrong a lot more often.

The problem with you is you want to pretend the entire episode is just the video. Common sense would tell you that is an erroneous way to proceed. Basic logic would tell you that is not the entire episode.

But you refuse to deal in reality. So put me on ignore. I learned a long time ago that children do that. It is the technological equivalent of plugging your ears and going la la la to keep from hearing what you don’t want to.

Youn were wrong about the Zimmerman case ....

And, you may be wrong about this one too.

You cannot attack a man .... and when he shoots you claim it was murder.

I can attack a man who is attacking or threatening me. The entire premise of self defense is the ability to act, to attack those who are threatening your life.

Once again. The video is part of the story but not the complete series of events. What isn’t shown is the seven minute effort of the McMichaels and Roddy to stop Arbury without justification.

They had no legal authority to do what they did. People who act against another without legal authority are criminals. They have committed crimes.

So Arbury was facing criminals who appeared intent to stop him. For what? People argue that Arbury should have known the police were on the way. So now we tell victims of crimes to sit passively and do nothing and hope the police show up? Three planes full of passengers did just that on 9-11 as memory serves.

The entire premise of self defense means you are allowed to act to save your life from a perceived threat. What a reasonable person would believe was a threat.

Now. Let’s see how honest you are. Three armed black people are chasing you. You have no cell phone. No way to call for help. You could run to a door banging on it and scream for help. Perhaps someone is home. Perhaps not. What do you do? What do you tell your son to do?

A cornered rat will fight. A person will as well. Even the most passive will fight if there is no choice and no opportunity to flee.

So now we are to the shooting. The McMichaels had no legal justification to pursue or try and get Arbury to stop. None. No right under the laws in effect at the time.

They were in fact committing crimes in trying to get him to stop. By dismounting the truck with the shotgun Travis committed another crime. Aggravated Assault. A felony.

Here be the final rub. We disallow people from claiming self defense if they are committing a crime. We don’t let the armed robbery suspect claim self defense in killing the clerk. We say that any death that occurs even if not directly from the actions of the criminal are the responsibility of the criminal.

That is why we don’t charge cops when they shoot a hostage. We tack the death onto the person who instigated the event. The criminal who started it.

So the death of Arbury while he was trying to defend himself can’t be self defense. You can’t even claim it was provoked. You are left with murder. Felony Murder is the charge. A death that happened while the suspects were committing a crime.

 

[John T. Ford]

So I evaluated the video wrong. Odd. The State of Georgia evaluated it the same way. The Grand Jury. The Judge. Oh and let’s not forget the actual lawyers I keep quoting who keep explaining it.

But everyone else is wrong. Only you are right. All those attorneys who defend people charged with crimes for a living don’t know what they are taking about. Some idiot who has never driven by a law school knows the law and what it says.

At this point you remind me of the Onion skit about the guy who refused to believe he had cancer.



As for my predictions? Ok. I was right about the parking lot shooter in Florida. He was convicted. I was right about Chauvin. He was convicted. I was right about the Bundy’s when the Government was caught lying. Charges dismissed.

I said the Zimmerman trial was a coin toss. And eventually the moron would end up either in prison for another charge or dead. I honestly gave a slight advantage to the state. But not much of an advantage.

I was right on the Texas Cop who walked into the wrong apartment and killed the guy.

I’ve been wrong. I thought the cop who shot the blond woman, forget both their names, would be convicted. He wasn’t. I figured they would never charge the cop who shot John Geer. They indicted and convicted him.

So I have been wrong before. But less often than I’ve been right. The reason is I make evaluations based upon what the experts are saying. It by the way is how I knew we would get hit by a hurricane days before it reached us. I listen to the experts and apply my own ideals. It prevents me from being wrong a lot more often.

The problem with you is you want to pretend the entire episode is just the video. Common sense would tell you that is an erroneous way to proceed. Basic logic would tell you that is not the entire episode.

But you refuse to deal in reality. So put me on ignore. I learned a long time ago that children do that. It is the technological equivalent of plugging your ears and going la la la to keep from hearing what you don’t want to.

Youn were wrong about the Zimmerman case ....

And, you may be wrong about this one too.

You cannot attack a man .... and when he shoots you claim it was murder.

I can attack a man who is attacking or threatening me. The entire premise of self defense is the ability to act, to attack those who are threatening your life.

Once again. The video is part of the story but not the complete series of events. What isn’t shown is the seven minute effort of the McMichaels and Roddy to stop Arbury without justification.

They had no legal authority to do what they did. People who act against another without legal authority are criminals. They have committed crimes.

So Arbury was facing criminals who appeared intent to stop him. For what? People argue that Arbury should have known the police were on the way. So now we tell victims of crimes to sit passively and do nothing and hope the police show up? Three planes full of passengers did just that on 9-11 as memory serves.

The entire premise of self defense means you are allowed to act to save your life from a perceived threat. What a reasonable person would believe was a threat.

Now. Let’s see how honest you are. Three armed black people are chasing you. You have no cell phone. No way to call for help. You could run to a door banging on it and scream for help. Perhaps someone is home. Perhaps not. What do you do? What do you tell your son to do?

A cornered rat will fight. A person will as well. Even the most passive will fight if there is no choice and no opportunity to flee.

So now we are to the shooting. The McMichaels had no legal justification to pursue or try and get Arbury to stop. None. No right under the laws in effect at the time.

They were in fact committing crimes in trying to get him to stop. By dismounting the truck with the shotgun Travis committed another crime. Aggravated Assault. A felony.

Here be the final rub. We disallow people from claiming self defense if they are committing a crime. We don’t let the armed robbery suspect claim self defense in killing the clerk. We say that any death that occurs even if not directly from the actions of the criminal are the responsibility of the criminal.

That is why we don’t charge cops when they shoot a hostage. We tack the death onto the person who instigated the event. The criminal who started it.

So the death of Arbury while he was trying to defend himself can’t be self defense. You can’t even claim it was provoked. You are left with murder. Felony Murder is the charge. A death that happened while the suspects were committing a crime.

Yeah ...

You are wrong.

Perhaps you should revisit the Zimmerman case.

 

[SavannahMann]

So I evaluated the video wrong. Odd. The State of Georgia evaluated it the same way. The Grand Jury. The Judge. Oh and let’s not forget the actual lawyers I keep quoting who keep explaining it.

But everyone else is wrong. Only you are right. All those attorneys who defend people charged with crimes for a living don’t know what they are taking about. Some idiot who has never driven by a law school knows the law and what it says.

At this point you remind me of the Onion skit about the guy who refused to believe he had cancer.



As for my predictions? Ok. I was right about the parking lot shooter in Florida. He was convicted. I was right about Chauvin. He was convicted. I was right about the Bundy’s when the Government was caught lying. Charges dismissed.

I said the Zimmerman trial was a coin toss. And eventually the moron would end up either in prison for another charge or dead. I honestly gave a slight advantage to the state. But not much of an advantage.

I was right on the Texas Cop who walked into the wrong apartment and killed the guy.

I’ve been wrong. I thought the cop who shot the blond woman, forget both their names, would be convicted. He wasn’t. I figured they would never charge the cop who shot John Geer. They indicted and convicted him.

So I have been wrong before. But less often than I’ve been right. The reason is I make evaluations based upon what the experts are saying. It by the way is how I knew we would get hit by a hurricane days before it reached us. I listen to the experts and apply my own ideals. It prevents me from being wrong a lot more often.

The problem with you is you want to pretend the entire episode is just the video. Common sense would tell you that is an erroneous way to proceed. Basic logic would tell you that is not the entire episode.

But you refuse to deal in reality. So put me on ignore. I learned a long time ago that children do that. It is the technological equivalent of plugging your ears and going la la la to keep from hearing what you don’t want to.

Youn were wrong about the Zimmerman case ....

And, you may be wrong about this one too.

You cannot attack a man .... and when he shoots you claim it was murder.

I can attack a man who is attacking or threatening me. The entire premise of self defense is the ability to act, to attack those who are threatening your life.

Once again. The video is part of the story but not the complete series of events. What isn’t shown is the seven minute effort of the McMichaels and Roddy to stop Arbury without justification.

They had no legal authority to do what they did. People who act against another without legal authority are criminals. They have committed crimes.

So Arbury was facing criminals who appeared intent to stop him. For what? People argue that Arbury should have known the police were on the way. So now we tell victims of crimes to sit passively and do nothing and hope the police show up? Three planes full of passengers did just that on 9-11 as memory serves.

The entire premise of self defense means you are allowed to act to save your life from a perceived threat. What a reasonable person would believe was a threat.

Now. Let’s see how honest you are. Three armed black people are chasing you. You have no cell phone. No way to call for help. You could run to a door banging on it and scream for help. Perhaps someone is home. Perhaps not. What do you do? What do you tell your son to do?

A cornered rat will fight. A person will as well. Even the most passive will fight if there is no choice and no opportunity to flee.

So now we are to the shooting. The McMichaels had no legal justification to pursue or try and get Arbury to stop. None. No right under the laws in effect at the time.

They were in fact committing crimes in trying to get him to stop. By dismounting the truck with the shotgun Travis committed another crime. Aggravated Assault. A felony.

Here be the final rub. We disallow people from claiming self defense if they are committing a crime. We don’t let the armed robbery suspect claim self defense in killing the clerk. We say that any death that occurs even if not directly from the actions of the criminal are the responsibility of the criminal.

That is why we don’t charge cops when they shoot a hostage. We tack the death onto the person who instigated the event. The criminal who started it.

So the death of Arbury while he was trying to defend himself can’t be self defense. You can’t even claim it was provoked. You are left with murder. Felony Murder is the charge. A death that happened while the suspects were committing a crime.

Yeah ...

You are wrong.

Perhaps you should revisit the Zimmerman case.

Then why are so many lawyers saying essentially what I am?

 

[SavannahMann]

Ok for all the new people to the thread. Let’s go over the facts. The defense for the McMichaels is that they were engaging in a legal Citizens Arrest. In order for that defense to be valid Arbury had to be committing a crime on that day. What crime was Arbury committing?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

So I evaluated the video wrong. Odd. The State of Georgia evaluated it the same way. The Grand Jury. The Judge. Oh and let’s not forget the actual lawyers I keep quoting who keep explaining it.

But everyone else is wrong. Only you are right. All those attorneys who defend people charged with crimes for a living don’t know what they are taking about. Some idiot who has never driven by a law school knows the law and what it says.

At this point you remind me of the Onion skit about the guy who refused to believe he had cancer.



As for my predictions? Ok. I was right about the parking lot shooter in Florida. He was convicted. I was right about Chauvin. He was convicted. I was right about the Bundy’s when the Government was caught lying. Charges dismissed.

I said the Zimmerman trial was a coin toss. And eventually the moron would end up either in prison for another charge or dead. I honestly gave a slight advantage to the state. But not much of an advantage.

I was right on the Texas Cop who walked into the wrong apartment and killed the guy.

I’ve been wrong. I thought the cop who shot the blond woman, forget both their names, would be convicted. He wasn’t. I figured they would never charge the cop who shot John Geer. They indicted and convicted him.

So I have been wrong before. But less often than I’ve been right. The reason is I make evaluations based upon what the experts are saying. It by the way is how I knew we would get hit by a hurricane days before it reached us. I listen to the experts and apply my own ideals. It prevents me from being wrong a lot more often.

The problem with you is you want to pretend the entire episode is just the video. Common sense would tell you that is an erroneous way to proceed. Basic logic would tell you that is not the entire episode.

But you refuse to deal in reality. So put me on ignore. I learned a long time ago that children do that. It is the technological equivalent of plugging your ears and going la la la to keep from hearing what you don’t want to.

Youn were wrong about the Zimmerman case ....

And, you may be wrong about this one too.

You cannot attack a man .... and when he shoots you claim it was murder.

I can attack a man who is attacking or threatening me. The entire premise of self defense is the ability to act, to attack those who are threatening your life.

Once again. The video is part of the story but not the complete series of events. What isn’t shown is the seven minute effort of the McMichaels and Roddy to stop Arbury without justification.

They had no legal authority to do what they did. People who act against another without legal authority are criminals. They have committed crimes.

So Arbury was facing criminals who appeared intent to stop him. For what? People argue that Arbury should have known the police were on the way. So now we tell victims of crimes to sit passively and do nothing and hope the police show up? Three planes full of passengers did just that on 9-11 as memory serves.

The entire premise of self defense means you are allowed to act to save your life from a perceived threat. What a reasonable person would believe was a threat.

Now. Let’s see how honest you are. Three armed black people are chasing you. You have no cell phone. No way to call for help. You could run to a door banging on it and scream for help. Perhaps someone is home. Perhaps not. What do you do? What do you tell your son to do?

A cornered rat will fight. A person will as well. Even the most passive will fight if there is no choice and no opportunity to flee.

So now we are to the shooting. The McMichaels had no legal justification to pursue or try and get Arbury to stop. None. No right under the laws in effect at the time.

They were in fact committing crimes in trying to get him to stop. By dismounting the truck with the shotgun Travis committed another crime. Aggravated Assault. A felony.

Here be the final rub. We disallow people from claiming self defense if they are committing a crime. We don’t let the armed robbery suspect claim self defense in killing the clerk. We say that any death that occurs even if not directly from the actions of the criminal are the responsibility of the criminal.

That is why we don’t charge cops when they shoot a hostage. We tack the death onto the person who instigated the event. The criminal who started it.

So the death of Arbury while he was trying to defend himself can’t be self defense. You can’t even claim it was provoked. You are left with murder. Felony Murder is the charge. A death that happened while the suspects were committing a crime.

Yeah ...

You are wrong.

Perhaps you should revisit the Zimmerman case.

Different state, different laws, bad ruling.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Ok for all the new people to the thread. Let’s go over the facts. The defense for the McMichaels is that they were engaging in a legal Citizens Arrest. In order for that defense to be valid Arbury had to be committing a crime on that day. What crime was Arbury committing?

Trespassing-----------while casing the place for ANOTHER ROBBERY. He was already suspect to have stolen from the place.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

So I evaluated the video wrong. Odd. The State of Georgia evaluated it the same way. The Grand Jury. The Judge. Oh and let’s not forget the actual lawyers I keep quoting who keep explaining it.

But everyone else is wrong. Only you are right. All those attorneys who defend people charged with crimes for a living don’t know what they are taking about. Some idiot who has never driven by a law school knows the law and what it says.

At this point you remind me of the Onion skit about the guy who refused to believe he had cancer.



As for my predictions? Ok. I was right about the parking lot shooter in Florida. He was convicted. I was right about Chauvin. He was convicted. I was right about the Bundy’s when the Government was caught lying. Charges dismissed.

I said the Zimmerman trial was a coin toss. And eventually the moron would end up either in prison for another charge or dead. I honestly gave a slight advantage to the state. But not much of an advantage.

I was right on the Texas Cop who walked into the wrong apartment and killed the guy.

I’ve been wrong. I thought the cop who shot the blond woman, forget both their names, would be convicted. He wasn’t. I figured they would never charge the cop who shot John Geer. They indicted and convicted him.

So I have been wrong before. But less often than I’ve been right. The reason is I make evaluations based upon what the experts are saying. It by the way is how I knew we would get hit by a hurricane days before it reached us. I listen to the experts and apply my own ideals. It prevents me from being wrong a lot more often.

The problem with you is you want to pretend the entire episode is just the video. Common sense would tell you that is an erroneous way to proceed. Basic logic would tell you that is not the entire episode.

But you refuse to deal in reality. So put me on ignore. I learned a long time ago that children do that. It is the technological equivalent of plugging your ears and going la la la to keep from hearing what you don’t want to.

Youn were wrong about the Zimmerman case ....

And, you may be wrong about this one too.

You cannot attack a man .... and when he shoots you claim it was murder.

I can attack a man who is attacking or threatening me. The entire premise of self defense is the ability to act, to attack those who are threatening your life.

Once again. The video is part of the story but not the complete series of events. What isn’t shown is the seven minute effort of the McMichaels and Roddy to stop Arbury without justification.

They had no legal authority to do what they did. People who act against another without legal authority are criminals. They have committed crimes.

So Arbury was facing criminals who appeared intent to stop him. For what? People argue that Arbury should have known the police were on the way. So now we tell victims of crimes to sit passively and do nothing and hope the police show up? Three planes full of passengers did just that on 9-11 as memory serves.

The entire premise of self defense means you are allowed to act to save your life from a perceived threat. What a reasonable person would believe was a threat.

Now. Let’s see how honest you are. Three armed black people are chasing you. You have no cell phone. No way to call for help. You could run to a door banging on it and scream for help. Perhaps someone is home. Perhaps not. What do you do? What do you tell your son to do?

A cornered rat will fight. A person will as well. Even the most passive will fight if there is no choice and no opportunity to flee.

So now we are to the shooting. The McMichaels had no legal justification to pursue or try and get Arbury to stop. None. No right under the laws in effect at the time.

They were in fact committing crimes in trying to get him to stop. By dismounting the truck with the shotgun Travis committed another crime. Aggravated Assault. A felony.

Here be the final rub. We disallow people from claiming self defense if they are committing a crime. We don’t let the armed robbery suspect claim self defense in killing the clerk. We say that any death that occurs even if not directly from the actions of the criminal are the responsibility of the criminal.

That is why we don’t charge cops when they shoot a hostage. We tack the death onto the person who instigated the event. The criminal who started it.

So the death of Arbury while he was trying to defend himself can’t be self defense. You can’t even claim it was provoked. You are left with murder. Felony Murder is the charge. A death that happened while the suspects were committing a crime.

Yeah ...

You are wrong.

Perhaps you should revisit the Zimmerman case.

Different state, different laws, bad ruling.

Ruling???? Anyhow .......the mistake you and others are making in this Georgia case is to claim the McMichaels were committing a crime by chasing after ahmaud.....attempting to make a citizens arrest.

The problem with that is that no citizens arrest was made. Nor was there an attempt to make a citizens arrest....no matter what Gregory McMichaels said aka 'we intended to make a citizens arrest'.

pulling up beside a jogger and telling him to stop they need to talk does not constitute an arrest nor an attempt at arrest.

Pulling a vehicle in front of someone to impede them is not an arrest.

Legal definition of an arrest: 'An arrest occurs when police officers take a suspect into custody. An arrest is complete as soon as the suspect is no longer free to walk away from the arresting police officer.'

Ahmaud had freedom of movement at all times.....he never stopped jogging.

In the video showing how he got killed....he was jogging towards the McMichaels and their truck..if he had been in fear of his life he would not have kept jogging towards them.

Try and use a little common sense....if you were in fear of your life would you jog towards those you feared?

He had no reason to believe his life was in danger....no one had threatened him....all that was said to him was .......'stop we need to talk to you'

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Telling us he didnt complete his firearms training simply shows you are desperate.

Really? How can you be a police officer if you're unwilling or unable to pass the basic requirements and training for being a sworn officer? Without that he's impersonating a police officer for all intents and purposes. From the article:

In Georgia, law enforcement officers are required to complete 20 hours of training each year, including certain mandated courses, to maintain their power of arrest – a critical authorization that gives officers legal authority to do essential law enforcement functions.

​

“Without those powers of arrest, you have no further or no additional power than any other citizen has,” said Mike Ayers, the executive director of the Georgia Peace Officers Standards and Training council (Post), which oversees the certification.​

​

But McMichael didn’t alert his supervisors to the deficiency until 2014, according to the records. The problem was so severe, Post considered suspending him indefinitely. He was stripped of his gun and departmental vehicle while he applied to the state for a waiver.​

​

[snipped] In February 2019, months before he retired, McMichael again lost his certification from Post for failing to complete the required training in 2018. Weeks later, his supervisors reassigned him to work as a staff liaison in the Camden county district attorney’s office and noted that he would “not engage in any activity that would be construed as being law enforcement in nature”. His supervisors noted he would not carry a badge or firearm in his new role.​

​

​

I've maintained my annual state mandated training for the last 8 years and am certified (licensed) in my profession so that makes me by default more credible than you or Gregory.

​

 

[Leo123]

I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​

​

3 men charged with federal hate crimes in killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia​

April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​

By Tim Fitzsimons​

​

Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​

Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family

​

Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​

​

William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​

​

Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.​

The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​

​

The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.​

​

Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​

​

Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​

​

The OP only posted a greatly truncated version of the story in order to make Arbery look like an innocent child. The link the OP posted has scant details and a sensational headline. I'm calling bullshit fake news. Arbery was seen by two men in the neighborhood and he (Arbery) matched the description of a neighborhood thief. Arbery was inside a newly constructed house and they thought he was stealing stuff. (carepenter's tools, etc.) They stopped him and they were armed. They said they wanted to talk to Arbery but Arbery started attacking them. One guy had a shotgun and shot Arbery. That's the whole story, you make up your own mind but please don't believe the OP's version it's purposely leaving out important details of the confrontation.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​

​

3 men charged with federal hate crimes in killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia​

April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​

By Tim Fitzsimons​

​

Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​

Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family

​

Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​

​

William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​

​

Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.​

The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​

​

The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.​

​

Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​

​

Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​

​

The OP only posted a greatly truncated version of the story in order to make Arbery look like an innocent child. The link the OP posted has scant details and a sensational headline. I'm calling bullshit fake news. Arbery was seen by two men in the neighborhood and he (Arbery) matched the description of a neighborhood thief. Arbery was inside a newly constructed house and they thought he was stealing stuff. (carepenter's tools, etc.) They stopped him and they were armed. They said they wanted to talk to Arbery but Arbery started attacking them. One guy had a shotgun and shot Arbery. That's the whole story, you make up your own mind but please don't believe the OP's version it's purposely leaving out important details of the confrontation.

Arbery was known to the father, Gregory McMichael who had previously investigated him for a charge while Arbery was in high school.

It seems that Arbery was possibly targeted and not because of anything the McMichael's witnessed that day, but because of their knowledge of him and his family and the disdain/animus they held towards them.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

18 U.S. Code § 249 - Hate crime acts

www.law.cornell.edu

Federal law defining a hate crime........
(A)In general.—Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B) or paragraph (3), willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, a dangerous weapon, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of any person—

No attempt was made to injure Ahmaud because of anything other than the fact Travis was forced by Ahmaud's assault on him...... to defend his life with lethal force which the law on self defense justifies.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​

​

3 men charged with federal hate crimes in killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia​

April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​

By Tim Fitzsimons​

​

Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​

Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family

​

Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​

​

William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​

​

Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.​

The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​

​

The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.​

​

Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​

​

Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​

​

The OP only posted a greatly truncated version of the story in order to make Arbery look like an innocent child. The link the OP posted has scant details and a sensational headline. I'm calling bullshit fake news. Arbery was seen by two men in the neighborhood and he (Arbery) matched the description of a neighborhood thief. Arbery was inside a newly constructed house and they thought he was stealing stuff. (carepenter's tools, etc.) They stopped him and they were armed. They said they wanted to talk to Arbery but Arbery started attacking them. One guy had a shotgun and shot Arbery. That's the whole story, you make up your own mind but please don't believe the OP's version it's purposely leaving out important details of the confrontation.

Arbery was known to the father, Gregory McMichael who had previously investigated him for a charge while Arbery was in high school.

It seems that Arbery was possibly targeted and not because of anything the McMichael's witnessed that day, but because of their knowledge of him and his family and the disdain/animus they held towards them.

You are speculating....there is no evidence Gregory McMichaels had any disdain of Ahmaud.....the only thing that motivated the chase of Ahmaud was the fact that Gregory McMichaels received a phone call about an intruder in the house under construction....whilst he was out in the front of the house....shortly after the call he sees ahmaud hauling ass down the road in front of his house......naturally since he recognized him from a video he had recently been shown from the security camera in the house under construction and Ahmaud was running from that direction then it is entirely reasonable to chase after him to determine where he had been and what he was doing.

Texts reveal police enlisted help from suspect in Arberyâs death months before shooting

Channel 2′s Tony Thomas obtained text messages sent by a Glynn County police officer to the owner of the construction site where surveillance video captured Arbery’s image shortly before he was shot and killed.

www.wsbtv.com

 

[TheGreenHornet]

I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​

​

3 men charged with federal hate crimes in killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia​

April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​

By Tim Fitzsimons​

​

Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​

Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family

​

Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​

​

William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​

​

Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.​

The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​

​

The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.​

​

Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​

​

Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​

​

The OP only posted a greatly truncated version of the story in order to make Arbery look like an innocent child. The link the OP posted has scant details and a sensational headline. I'm calling bullshit fake news. Arbery was seen by two men in the neighborhood and he (Arbery) matched the description of a neighborhood thief. Arbery was inside a newly constructed house and they thought he was stealing stuff. (carepenter's tools, etc.) They stopped him and they were armed. They said they wanted to talk to Arbery but Arbery started attacking them. One guy had a shotgun and shot Arbery. That's the whole story, you make up your own mind but please don't believe the OP's version it's purposely leaving out important details of the confrontation.

The only thing in the above I would disagree with is that they never stopped him....never got out of their truck at that time....never displayed any weapons at that timr....they pullled up beside him in their truck and told him they needed to talk to him but he never stopped jogging....he just jogged in another direction......they drove ahead of him and stopped a considerable distance from Ahmaud.

Ahmaud kept jogging towards them... Gregory was in the truck bed....and Travis was standing to the front left of the truck holding his shotgun which was not pointed at Ahmaud. Gregory was on the phone talking to the police.

Ahmaud jogged up to the truck.......jogged aroun the right side of the truck and immediately veered left quickly running over to attack Travis....it has all been captured on video.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

Telling us he didnt complete his firearms training simply shows you are desperate.

Really? How can you be a police officer if you're unwilling or unable to pass the basic requirements and training for being a sworn officer? Without that he's impersonating a police officer for all intents and purposes. From the article:

In Georgia, law enforcement officers are required to complete 20 hours of training each year, including certain mandated courses, to maintain their power of arrest – a critical authorization that gives officers legal authority to do essential law enforcement functions.

​

“Without those powers of arrest, you have no further or no additional power than any other citizen has,” said Mike Ayers, the executive director of the Georgia Peace Officers Standards and Training council (Post), which oversees the certification.​

​

But McMichael didn’t alert his supervisors to the deficiency until 2014, according to the records. The problem was so severe, Post considered suspending him indefinitely. He was stripped of his gun and departmental vehicle while he applied to the state for a waiver.​

​

[snipped] In February 2019, months before he retired, McMichael again lost his certification from Post for failing to complete the required training in 2018. Weeks later, his supervisors reassigned him to work as a staff liaison in the Camden county district attorney’s office and noted that he would “not engage in any activity that would be construed as being law enforcement in nature”. His supervisors noted he would not carry a badge or firearm in his new role.​

​

​

I've maintained my annual state mandated training for the last 8 years and am certified (licensed) in my profession so that makes me by default more credible than you or Gregory.

​

bwaaaaaaaa He was a retired policeman.....he served for decades as a cop and as a criminal investigator.

Anyhow what is your profession? BTW having a permit to carry a weapon does not make you more credible than anyone.....ridiculous to claim that.

 

[SavannahMann]

Ok for all the new people to the thread. Let’s go over the facts. The defense for the McMichaels is that they were engaging in a legal Citizens Arrest. In order for that defense to be valid Arbury had to be committing a crime on that day. What crime was Arbury committing?

Trespassing-----------while casing the place for ANOTHER ROBBERY. He was already suspect to have stolen from the place.

Actually under Georgia Law. He wasn’t really Trespassing. Legal Precedent on that has restricted the ability to either arrest someone for that crime or have the police arrest them to the property owner or legally designated representative.

People come to construction sites. As long as they don’t take anything Trespassing isn’t really a crime that they can be charged with.

And as far as him being a suspect in another burglary it happened long before the shooting so it is not Germaine to the day either.

The purpose of Citizens Arrest was to allow someone to detain an individual caught in the act. It can hardly be said that a burglary weeks ago was “in the act”.



Next?

 

[SavannahMann]

So I evaluated the video wrong. Odd. The State of Georgia evaluated it the same way. The Grand Jury. The Judge. Oh and let’s not forget the actual lawyers I keep quoting who keep explaining it.

But everyone else is wrong. Only you are right. All those attorneys who defend people charged with crimes for a living don’t know what they are taking about. Some idiot who has never driven by a law school knows the law and what it says.

At this point you remind me of the Onion skit about the guy who refused to believe he had cancer.



As for my predictions? Ok. I was right about the parking lot shooter in Florida. He was convicted. I was right about Chauvin. He was convicted. I was right about the Bundy’s when the Government was caught lying. Charges dismissed.

I said the Zimmerman trial was a coin toss. And eventually the moron would end up either in prison for another charge or dead. I honestly gave a slight advantage to the state. But not much of an advantage.

I was right on the Texas Cop who walked into the wrong apartment and killed the guy.

I’ve been wrong. I thought the cop who shot the blond woman, forget both their names, would be convicted. He wasn’t. I figured they would never charge the cop who shot John Geer. They indicted and convicted him.

So I have been wrong before. But less often than I’ve been right. The reason is I make evaluations based upon what the experts are saying. It by the way is how I knew we would get hit by a hurricane days before it reached us. I listen to the experts and apply my own ideals. It prevents me from being wrong a lot more often.

The problem with you is you want to pretend the entire episode is just the video. Common sense would tell you that is an erroneous way to proceed. Basic logic would tell you that is not the entire episode.

But you refuse to deal in reality. So put me on ignore. I learned a long time ago that children do that. It is the technological equivalent of plugging your ears and going la la la to keep from hearing what you don’t want to.

Youn were wrong about the Zimmerman case ....

And, you may be wrong about this one too.

You cannot attack a man .... and when he shoots you claim it was murder.

I can attack a man who is attacking or threatening me. The entire premise of self defense is the ability to act, to attack those who are threatening your life.

Once again. The video is part of the story but not the complete series of events. What isn’t shown is the seven minute effort of the McMichaels and Roddy to stop Arbury without justification.

They had no legal authority to do what they did. People who act against another without legal authority are criminals. They have committed crimes.

So Arbury was facing criminals who appeared intent to stop him. For what? People argue that Arbury should have known the police were on the way. So now we tell victims of crimes to sit passively and do nothing and hope the police show up? Three planes full of passengers did just that on 9-11 as memory serves.

The entire premise of self defense means you are allowed to act to save your life from a perceived threat. What a reasonable person would believe was a threat.

Now. Let’s see how honest you are. Three armed black people are chasing you. You have no cell phone. No way to call for help. You could run to a door banging on it and scream for help. Perhaps someone is home. Perhaps not. What do you do? What do you tell your son to do?

A cornered rat will fight. A person will as well. Even the most passive will fight if there is no choice and no opportunity to flee.

So now we are to the shooting. The McMichaels had no legal justification to pursue or try and get Arbury to stop. None. No right under the laws in effect at the time.

They were in fact committing crimes in trying to get him to stop. By dismounting the truck with the shotgun Travis committed another crime. Aggravated Assault. A felony.

Here be the final rub. We disallow people from claiming self defense if they are committing a crime. We don’t let the armed robbery suspect claim self defense in killing the clerk. We say that any death that occurs even if not directly from the actions of the criminal are the responsibility of the criminal.

That is why we don’t charge cops when they shoot a hostage. We tack the death onto the person who instigated the event. The criminal who started it.

So the death of Arbury while he was trying to defend himself can’t be self defense. You can’t even claim it was provoked. You are left with murder. Felony Murder is the charge. A death that happened while the suspects were committing a crime.

Yeah ...

You are wrong.

Perhaps you should revisit the Zimmerman case.

Different state, different laws, bad ruling.

Ruling???? Anyhow .......the mistake you and others are making in this Georgia case is to claim the McMichaels were committing a crime by chasing after ahmaud.....attempting to make a citizens arrest.

The problem with that is that no citizens arrest was made. Nor was there an attempt to make a citizens arrest....no matter what Gregory McMichaels said aka 'we intended to make a citizens arrest'.

pulling up beside a jogger and telling him to stop they need to talk does not constitute an arrest nor an attempt at arrest.

Pulling a vehicle in front of someone to impede them is not an arrest.

Legal definition of an arrest: 'An arrest occurs when police officers take a suspect into custody. An arrest is complete as soon as the suspect is no longer free to walk away from the arresting police officer.'

Ahmaud had freedom of movement at all times.....he never stopped jogging.

In the video showing how he got killed....he was jogging towards the McMichaels and their truck..if he had been in fear of his life he would not have kept jogging towards them.

Try and use a little common sense....if you were in fear of your life would you jog towards those you feared?

He had no reason to believe his life was in danger....no one had threatened him....all that was said to him was .......'stop we need to talk to you'

Then your position is the defense attorneys are lying. Since they claim it was an attempted citizens arrest which was “legal” and thus the shooting was self defense.

If they were not attempting a citizens arrest then the contact made by Roddy with his truck against Arbury was in fact part of a what? The claims of the McMichaels that they tried to cut off Arbury was what? Road rage? It certainly was not legal. It means they were not acting under the lawful authority of anything were they?

Your assertions don’t help the McMichaels. In fact you are talking them into prison.

Out of curiosity when the trial does take place are you going to be screaming that the defense is lying when they assert in the trial that it was a valid effort to enact a citizens arrest?

 

[Turtlesoup]

I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​

​

3 men charged with federal hate crimes in killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia​

April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​

By Tim Fitzsimons​

​

Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​

Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family

​

Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​

​

William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​

​

Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.​

The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​

​

The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.​

​

Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​

​

Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​

​

The OP only posted a greatly truncated version of the story in order to make Arbery look like an innocent child. The link the OP posted has scant details and a sensational headline. I'm calling bullshit fake news. Arbery was seen by two men in the neighborhood and he (Arbery) matched the description of a neighborhood thief. Arbery was inside a newly constructed house and they thought he was stealing stuff. (carepenter's tools, etc.) They stopped him and they were armed. They said they wanted to talk to Arbery but Arbery started attacking them. One guy had a shotgun and shot Arbery. That's the whole story, you make up your own mind but please don't believe the OP's version it's purposely leaving out important details of the confrontation.

Arbery was known to the father, Gregory McMichael who had previously investigated him for a charge while Arbery was in high school.

It seems that Arbery was possibly targeted and not because of anything the McMichael's witnessed that day, but because of their knowledge of him and his family and the disdain/animus they held towards them.

You mean Arbery was a KNOWN criminal? He had trepassed and was known to be a thief? Who in their right mind wouldn't stop his criminal ass?

 

[SavannahMann]

I sincerely hope that they are able to get a conviction and that people's eyes are finally open to what's been happening all around them, even if they were unable of it.​

​

3 men charged with federal hate crimes in killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia​

April 28, 2021, 2:32 PM PDT / Updated April 28, 2021, 4:08 PM PDT​

By Tim Fitzsimons​

​

Three Georgia men previously charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery were indicted Wednesday by a federal grand jury and charged with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping.​

Ahmaud Arbery. Courtesy of Family

​

Arbery was jogging in Brunswick, Georgia, when Travis McMichael, 35, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 65, pursued him in their truck and shot him dead on Feb. 23, 2020.​

​

William "Roddie" Bryan, 51, who was driving behind them in a separate truck, filmed the shooting.​

​

Later, Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer, leaked the video because he wanted "the public to know the truth," his attorney said in 2020.​

The Department of Justice alleged on Wednesday that the men confronted Arbery "because of his race."​

​

The incident sparked outrage and spurred an international movement to draw attention to racism against Black runners, NBC News reported.​

​

Travis and Gregory were also each charged with "carrying, and brandishing—and in Travis’s case, discharging—a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence," the DOJ said in a press release.​

​

Gregory and Travis, father and son, were previously each charged with murder in May 2020 for the death of Arbery.​

​

The OP only posted a greatly truncated version of the story in order to make Arbery look like an innocent child. The link the OP posted has scant details and a sensational headline. I'm calling bullshit fake news. Arbery was seen by two men in the neighborhood and he (Arbery) matched the description of a neighborhood thief. Arbery was inside a newly constructed house and they thought he was stealing stuff. (carepenter's tools, etc.) They stopped him and they were armed. They said they wanted to talk to Arbery but Arbery started attacking them. One guy had a shotgun and shot Arbery. That's the whole story, you make up your own mind but please don't believe the OP's version it's purposely leaving out important details of the confrontation.

Arbery was known to the father, Gregory McMichael who had previously investigated him for a charge while Arbery was in high school.

It seems that Arbery was possibly targeted and not because of anything the McMichael's witnessed that day, but because of their knowledge of him and his family and the disdain/animus they held towards them.

You mean Arbery was a KNOWN criminal? He had trepassed and was known to be a thief? Who in their right mind wouldn't stop his criminal ass?

Anyone who didn’t want to go to prison themselves.