What's new
US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

20% California EV Owners Going Back to Gasoline

Rigby5

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
11,003
Reaction score
3,018
Points
170
Location
New Mexico
Ok, i'll ask the question, since no one else has. What does long charge times have to do with physics?

Not too long ago I went to Dallas, Tx. and stayed at a hotel located just off the Interstate.
In the corner of the hotel parking lot there was about a dozen Tesla charging stations.
I would see people setting in their cars reading a book while their Tesla's were charging.
That must be annoying if you're driving long distance, and turn a 10 hour trip into 15 or more hours, by having to charge up every 300 miles. Basically, forcing you to split the drive into 2 days and waste money spending the night in a hotel.
Add to that, you can't always drive the shortest route to your destination because of no charging stations along the way. ... :cool:

If you do a ten hour trip in a gas car you need to make pit stops anyway as well as one gas stop. If you're diving an ev you can top off your car at a level 3 charging station and do 50% in probably 15 minutes. That isn't a huge deal. It's routing your trip around those charging stations which makes it longer. However, i honestly don't see anyone making more than 4 pit stops during a 10 hour trip to top off your car. Technically you can probably get away with 3. This is all assuming you have a 300 mile range or better. It really depends how much you charge each time.

As for the article i'm surprised more of those early ev owners haven't gone back to gas. The ev market didn't start getting better till quite some time after 2017 when Tesla entered the market. Before that the ev market was complete trash. The fact that 80% of early ev owners still use their crappy evs shows you we have some committed ppl out there. With new advancements in charging times we'll see a complete shift very soon. A new start up is already coming out with new battery tech promising a full charge in 5 minutes. I know some of you would rather we stay in the stone ages while other countries pass us by, but you can't stop progress.






Progress doesn't need government mandates. If it is truly a superior product people will flock to it.

People and car companies need to be forced to accept new safety and health standards otherwise nothing will happen. You think every car company would have installed seat belts, air bags and crumple zones in their cars without safety mandates from the government? Now car companies are competing with each other to make their cars the safest ones on the market.


Ok, i'll ask the question, since no one else has. What does long charge times have to do with physics?

Not too long ago I went to Dallas, Tx. and stayed at a hotel located just off the Interstate.
In the corner of the hotel parking lot there was about a dozen Tesla charging stations.
I would see people setting in their cars reading a book while their Tesla's were charging.
That must be annoying if you're driving long distance, and turn a 10 hour trip into 15 or more hours, by having to charge up every 300 miles. Basically, forcing you to split the drive into 2 days and waste money spending the night in a hotel.
Add to that, you can't always drive the shortest route to your destination because of no charging stations along the way. ... :cool:

If you do a ten hour trip in a gas car you need to make pit stops anyway as well as one gas stop. If you're diving an ev you can top off your car at a level 3 charging station and do 50% in probably 15 minutes. That isn't a huge deal. It's routing your trip around those charging stations which makes it longer. However, i honestly don't see anyone making more than 4 pit stops during a 10 hour trip to top off your car. Technically you can probably get away with 3. This is all assuming you have a 300 mile range or better. It really depends how much you charge each time.

As for the article i'm surprised more of those early ev owners haven't gone back to gas. The ev market didn't start getting better till quite some time after 2017 when Tesla entered the market. Before that the ev market was complete trash. The fact that 80% of early ev owners still use their crappy evs shows you we have some committed ppl out there. With new advancements in charging times we'll see a complete shift very soon. A new start up is already coming out with new battery tech promising a full charge in 5 minutes. I know some of you would rather we stay in the stone ages while other countries pass us by, but you can't stop progress.
Ok, i'll ask the question, since no one else has. What does long charge times have to do with physics?
Did you really ask that?
Like I said, education is horrible these days.

Odd that you didn't respond to anything else he said. Not surprising, but odd.

It's because it was a dumb argument to begin with, and made even dumber when his only comment was, "physics are a bitch," which doesn't even make sense. Weatherman has the mindset of someone still arguing in favor of morse code over smartphones to communicate and then tries to make it political. No one is even disputing the lack of range of many evs, even today as Tesla is leading the pack with a battery that can give you 375 miles, this still lags behind the 400+ miles you'd get on even the smallest gas tanks, but will anyone be saying that a couple of years from now with new improvements in battery endurance and charging, much less in 15 years!? Not to mention the batteries are easily the most expensive part of the car, once technology improves the price of EVs will also drop dramatically. I predict we could have batteries that will allow you to go 2000 miles on a single charge by then and that may actually be a conservative estimate.

Nope.
Battery range will never improve that much, and cost of EVs will go way up, not down, as rare earth elements become harder to find.

Batteries are way to inefficient, and weigh way too much.

If you want EVs, then you will have to go with fuel cells instead.
 

Rigby5

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
11,003
Reaction score
3,018
Points
170
Location
New Mexico
I predict we could have batteries that will allow you to go 2000 miles on a single charge by then and that may actually be a conservative estimate.

Cool!
What type of battery is going to have that energy density?

We'll find out from now till 2035, unless you think we've already reached the pinnacle of battery technology :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

We are well past the pinnacle of battery technology, because already we are relying on rare earth elements that are impractical on a larger scale.
 

Rigby5

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
11,003
Reaction score
3,018
Points
170
Location
New Mexico
Ok, i'll ask the question, since no one else has. What does long charge times have to do with physics?

Not too long ago I went to Dallas, Tx. and stayed at a hotel located just off the Interstate.
In the corner of the hotel parking lot there was about a dozen Tesla charging stations.
I would see people setting in their cars reading a book while their Tesla's were charging.
That must be annoying if you're driving long distance, and turn a 10 hour trip into 15 or more hours, by having to charge up every 300 miles. Basically, forcing you to split the drive into 2 days and waste money spending the night in a hotel.
Add to that, you can't always drive the shortest route to your destination because of no charging stations along the way. ... :cool:

If you do a ten hour trip in a gas car you need to make pit stops anyway as well as one gas stop. If you're diving an ev you can top off your car at a level 3 charging station and do 50% in probably 15 minutes. That isn't a huge deal. It's routing your trip around those charging stations which makes it longer. However, i honestly don't see anyone making more than 4 pit stops during a 10 hour trip to top off your car. Technically you can probably get away with 3. This is all assuming you have a 300 mile range or better. It really depends how much you charge each time.

As for the article i'm surprised more of those early ev owners haven't gone back to gas. The ev market didn't start getting better till quite some time after 2017 when Tesla entered the market. Before that the ev market was complete trash. The fact that 80% of early ev owners still use their crappy evs shows you we have some committed ppl out there. With new advancements in charging times we'll see a complete shift very soon. A new start up is already coming out with new battery tech promising a full charge in 5 minutes. I know some of you would rather we stay in the stone ages while other countries pass us by, but you can't stop progress.






Progress doesn't need government mandates. If it is truly a superior product people will flock to it.

People and car companies need to be forced to accept new safety and health standards otherwise nothing will happen. You think every car company would have installed seat belts, air bags and crumple zones in their cars without safety mandates from the government? Now car companies are competing with each other to make their cars the safest ones on the market.


Ok, i'll ask the question, since no one else has. What does long charge times have to do with physics?

Not too long ago I went to Dallas, Tx. and stayed at a hotel located just off the Interstate.
In the corner of the hotel parking lot there was about a dozen Tesla charging stations.
I would see people setting in their cars reading a book while their Tesla's were charging.
That must be annoying if you're driving long distance, and turn a 10 hour trip into 15 or more hours, by having to charge up every 300 miles. Basically, forcing you to split the drive into 2 days and waste money spending the night in a hotel.
Add to that, you can't always drive the shortest route to your destination because of no charging stations along the way. ... :cool:

If you do a ten hour trip in a gas car you need to make pit stops anyway as well as one gas stop. If you're diving an ev you can top off your car at a level 3 charging station and do 50% in probably 15 minutes. That isn't a huge deal. It's routing your trip around those charging stations which makes it longer. However, i honestly don't see anyone making more than 4 pit stops during a 10 hour trip to top off your car. Technically you can probably get away with 3. This is all assuming you have a 300 mile range or better. It really depends how much you charge each time.

As for the article i'm surprised more of those early ev owners haven't gone back to gas. The ev market didn't start getting better till quite some time after 2017 when Tesla entered the market. Before that the ev market was complete trash. The fact that 80% of early ev owners still use their crappy evs shows you we have some committed ppl out there. With new advancements in charging times we'll see a complete shift very soon. A new start up is already coming out with new battery tech promising a full charge in 5 minutes. I know some of you would rather we stay in the stone ages while other countries pass us by, but you can't stop progress.
Ok, i'll ask the question, since no one else has. What does long charge times have to do with physics?
Did you really ask that?
Like I said, education is horrible these days.

Odd that you didn't respond to anything else he said. Not surprising, but odd.

It's because it was a dumb argument to begin with, and made even dumber when his only comment was, "physics are a bitch," which doesn't even make sense. Weatherman has the mindset of someone still arguing in favor of morse code over smartphones to communicate and then tries to make it political. No one is even disputing the lack of range of many evs, even today as Tesla is leading the pack with a battery that can give you 375 miles, this still lags behind the 400+ miles you'd get on even the smallest gas tanks, but will anyone be saying that a couple of years from now with new improvements in battery endurance and charging, much less in 15 years!? Not to mention the batteries are easily the most expensive part of the car, once technology improves the price of EVs will also drop dramatically. I predict we could have batteries that will allow you to go 2000 miles on a single charge by then and that may actually be a conservative estimate.






Forcing people to do things HINDERS development. Companies who get free bailouts for stupid decisions never bother to try and make good ones.

Only a government drone could think rewarding failure is a good thing.
All car makers are moving towards EVs, some even having announced dates by which they will cease to produce ICE autos. Thus there will be competition among them to make the best EVs. Increasing range and reducing charge times will be the biggest point of competition, so the final two comments just don't hold water.

The announcements are simple virtue signaling, just like the bans going 10-20 years in the future.

Until you can charge an EV in the same time as you can fill a gas tank, EV's won't compete. Until an EV's charge can last as long as a tank of gas under full load (propulsion, heat/AC, lights, electronics) EV's won't compete.

Unless of course you remove the competition.
"Oh, ye of little faith!" (...and even less imagination).

Faith would be not having to ban ICE vehicles, and assuming EV's will take over on the merits, not via government fiat.
Now, a government Fiat might be interesting to see.

No it would not.
It would not work and result in a shooting war.
EVs are never going to be practical with batteries.
You can't use them in planes, trains, ships, or trucks.
And only commuters can use them now.
Can you imagine trying to use an EV in Alaska winter, at night, when you also need to use the wipers?
 

Jarlaxle

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Messages
18,316
Reaction score
2,603
Points
245
Location
New England
Ok, i'll ask the question, since no one else has. What does long charge times have to do with physics?

Not too long ago I went to Dallas, Tx. and stayed at a hotel located just off the Interstate.
In the corner of the hotel parking lot there was about a dozen Tesla charging stations.
I would see people setting in their cars reading a book while their Tesla's were charging.
That must be annoying if you're driving long distance, and turn a 10 hour trip into 15 or more hours, by having to charge up every 300 miles. Basically, forcing you to split the drive into 2 days and waste money spending the night in a hotel.
Add to that, you can't always drive the shortest route to your destination because of no charging stations along the way. ... :cool:

If you do a ten hour trip in a gas car you need to make pit stops anyway as well as one gas stop. If you're diving an ev you can top off your car at a level 3 charging station and do 50% in probably 15 minutes. That isn't a huge deal. It's routing your trip around those charging stations which makes it longer. However, i honestly don't see anyone making more than 4 pit stops during a 10 hour trip to top off your car. Technically you can probably get away with 3. This is all assuming you have a 300 mile range or better. It really depends how much you charge each time.

As for the article i'm surprised more of those early ev owners haven't gone back to gas. The ev market didn't start getting better till quite some time after 2017 when Tesla entered the market. Before that the ev market was complete trash. The fact that 80% of early ev owners still use their crappy evs shows you we have some committed ppl out there. With new advancements in charging times we'll see a complete shift very soon. A new start up is already coming out with new battery tech promising a full charge in 5 minutes. I know some of you would rather we stay in the stone ages while other countries pass us by, but you can't stop progress.






Progress doesn't need government mandates. If it is truly a superior product people will flock to it.

People and car companies need to be forced to accept new safety and health standards otherwise nothing will happen. You think every car company would have installed seat belts, air bags and crumple zones in their cars without safety mandates from the government? Now car companies are competing with each other to make their cars the safest ones on the market.


Ok, i'll ask the question, since no one else has. What does long charge times have to do with physics?

Not too long ago I went to Dallas, Tx. and stayed at a hotel located just off the Interstate.
In the corner of the hotel parking lot there was about a dozen Tesla charging stations.
I would see people setting in their cars reading a book while their Tesla's were charging.
That must be annoying if you're driving long distance, and turn a 10 hour trip into 15 or more hours, by having to charge up every 300 miles. Basically, forcing you to split the drive into 2 days and waste money spending the night in a hotel.
Add to that, you can't always drive the shortest route to your destination because of no charging stations along the way. ... :cool:

If you do a ten hour trip in a gas car you need to make pit stops anyway as well as one gas stop. If you're diving an ev you can top off your car at a level 3 charging station and do 50% in probably 15 minutes. That isn't a huge deal. It's routing your trip around those charging stations which makes it longer. However, i honestly don't see anyone making more than 4 pit stops during a 10 hour trip to top off your car. Technically you can probably get away with 3. This is all assuming you have a 300 mile range or better. It really depends how much you charge each time.

As for the article i'm surprised more of those early ev owners haven't gone back to gas. The ev market didn't start getting better till quite some time after 2017 when Tesla entered the market. Before that the ev market was complete trash. The fact that 80% of early ev owners still use their crappy evs shows you we have some committed ppl out there. With new advancements in charging times we'll see a complete shift very soon. A new start up is already coming out with new battery tech promising a full charge in 5 minutes. I know some of you would rather we stay in the stone ages while other countries pass us by, but you can't stop progress.
Ok, i'll ask the question, since no one else has. What does long charge times have to do with physics?
Did you really ask that?
Like I said, education is horrible these days.

Odd that you didn't respond to anything else he said. Not surprising, but odd.

It's because it was a dumb argument to begin with, and made even dumber when his only comment was, "physics are a bitch," which doesn't even make sense. Weatherman has the mindset of someone still arguing in favor of morse code over smartphones to communicate and then tries to make it political. No one is even disputing the lack of range of many evs, even today as Tesla is leading the pack with a battery that can give you 375 miles, this still lags behind the 400+ miles you'd get on even the smallest gas tanks, but will anyone be saying that a couple of years from now with new improvements in battery endurance and charging, much less in 15 years!? Not to mention the batteries are easily the most expensive part of the car, once technology improves the price of EVs will also drop dramatically. I predict we could have batteries that will allow you to go 2000 miles on a single charge by then and that may actually be a conservative estimate.






Forcing people to do things HINDERS development. Companies who get free bailouts for stupid decisions never bother to try and make good ones.

Only a government drone could think rewarding failure is a good thing.
All car makers are moving towards EVs, some even having announced dates by which they will cease to produce ICE autos. Thus there will be competition among them to make the best EVs. Increasing range and reducing charge times will be the biggest point of competition, so the final two comments just don't hold water.
Reducing charge times in most cases runs up against an insurmountable barrier: the limit is and always will be the power source. A standard plug cannot be more than 1800 watts (15A/120V). A "level 2" charger cannot be more than 4800 watts (20A/240V, essentially a clothes dryer plug). More than that requires all sorts of dedicated equipment and, often, upgrading the electrical system for the entire building ($$$$$), often starting at the pole.
 

there4eyeM

unlicensed metaphysician
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
16,956
Reaction score
3,246
Points
280
Just wait until someone comes out with the alternative-power vehicle equivalent of the VW Bug! Everyone will want one and all the deniers will evaporate.
Notice the term "alternative power". Hydrogen has always seemed like a very promising matrix.
 

Sunni Man

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
56,791
Reaction score
18,766
Points
2,280
Location
Patriotic American Muslim
First of all, the batteries cost over $5k, so battery life is important,
The estimated cost of replacing the batteries in a Tesla is around $20,000
So the resale market value of a used Tesla car is going to be pretty bad.
I mean who would buy a 10 year old Tesla knowing a complete $20 grand battery replacement could sideline your car any day? ... :cool:
 

candycorn

Alis volat propriis
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
77,163
Reaction score
18,251
Points
2,180
The right wing idiocy is in full view on this thread....

Eventually, the nation will be almost completely dependent on electric cars for it's transit needs.
 

martybegan

Diamond Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
57,726
Reaction score
14,098
Points
2,190
The right wing idiocy is in full view on this thread....

Eventually, the nation will be almost completely dependent on electric cars for it's transit needs.

Whether the vehicles are ready for the tasks in all situations or not.

THAT is our issue with this. Natural replacement via the market is one thing, forced replacement is another.

And I doubt guys like Jay Leno will be forced to give up their cars, the elite will have another toy the plebes will not allowed to own.
 

Sunni Man

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
56,791
Reaction score
18,766
Points
2,280
Location
Patriotic American Muslim
The right wing idiocy is in full view on this thread....
Eventually, the nation will be almost completely dependent on electric cars for it's transit needs.
The lefty liberals always claim they are all about science.
But when you point out the flaws in their reasoning when it comes to one of their pet projects.
Liberals throw science out the window, and cling tightly to their leftist partisan hack beliefs based on feelings. ... :cuckoo:
 

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
67,162
Reaction score
14,634
Points
2,180
Location
Chicago

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
67,162
Reaction score
14,634
Points
2,180
Location
Chicago
The right wing idiocy is in full view on this thread....

Eventually, the nation will be almost completely dependent on electric cars for it's transit needs.

Well, if you want to build 100 nuclear plants to make that happen, just say so.
 

candycorn

Alis volat propriis
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
77,163
Reaction score
18,251
Points
2,180
The right wing idiocy is in full view on this thread....
Eventually, the nation will be almost completely dependent on electric cars for it's transit needs.
The lefty liberals always claim they are all about science.
But when you point out the flaws in their reasoning when it comes to one of their pet projects.
Liberals throw science out the window, and cling tightly to their leftist partisan hack beliefs based on feelings. ... :cuckoo:

Not throwing science out the window. The 2021 technology isn't what is going to be the standard in 2050.

Just like you're not cranking your internal combustion engine any more like they were doing in 1920.

If there was a message board around in 1925, you dumbfucks would be chiding people who said that we were going to be able to drive without hand cranking the engine.

For the life of me, I don't get the silly assed joy you guys get deriding new technologies and new ideas that, deep down, you guys know will be commonplace eventually.
 

candycorn

Alis volat propriis
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
77,163
Reaction score
18,251
Points
2,180

Not throwing science out the window. The 2021 technology isn't what is going to be the standard in 2050.
Battery powered cars is old technology, they have been around since the late 1800's.
But the looney liberals act like it's something new and exciting, it's not. ... :cool:

The most shocking thing about your post is that you're actually comparing 1800's technology to today's with a straight face.

Again...you guys reflexive rejection of anything that threatens the status quo is sad.
 

Crick

Gold Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
15,863
Reaction score
1,774
Points
290
Location
N/A
The right wing idiocy is in full view on this thread....
Eventually, the nation will be almost completely dependent on electric cars for it's transit needs.
The lefty liberals always claim they are all about science.
But when you point out the flaws in their reasoning when it comes to one of their pet projects.
Liberals throw science out the window, and cling tightly to their leftist partisan hack beliefs based on feelings. ... :cuckoo:
Let me point out the flaws in YOUR reasoning.

Humanity cannot afford continuing to emit CO2 at the current rate - you apparently disagree, but that's your problem. Ergo, we must move away from burning fossil fuel for transportation and energy generation, the two largest culprits. Under the limitations of present day technology, that means moving to EVs with their shortish ranges and long charge times. I am certain that technology will improve on that as time goes by. We might end up with fuel cell vehicles that fill up with hydrogen in seconds from modified gas stations or develop batteries that can hold enormous amounts of energy and charge quicker than you can say "Bob's your uncle". But, the inconvenience of current technology until such developments take place is just a price we are going to have to pay.
 

Crick

Gold Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
15,863
Reaction score
1,774
Points
290
Location
N/A

Not throwing science out the window. The 2021 technology isn't what is going to be the standard in 2050.
Battery powered cars is old technology, they have been around since the late 1800's.
But the looney liberals act like it's something new and exciting, it's not. ... :cool:
Hardly. Battery powered cars with the capabilities of the Tesla or better ARE something new.
 

Sunni Man

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
56,791
Reaction score
18,766
Points
2,280
Location
Patriotic American Muslim
Hardly. Battery powered cars with the capabilities of the Tesla or better ARE something new.
All we have done is improve the efficiency of battery powered cars.
Same as we have with gasoline and diesel powered vehicles.
But neither technology is New. ... :cool:
 

Crick

Gold Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
15,863
Reaction score
1,774
Points
290
Location
N/A
Hardly. Battery powered cars with the capabilities of the Tesla or better ARE something new.
All we have done is improve the efficiency of battery powered cars.
Same as we have with gasoline and diesel powered vehicles.
But neither technology is New. ... :cool:
They did not have lithium ion batteries in the late 1800s. They didn't even have them in the late 1980s. That IS a new development. There is an enormous amount of NEW technology used in the production of a modern automobile.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$280.00
Goal
$350.00

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top