$15,000 espresso machine bought for school district

[Annie]

This country is a capitalistic democracy.

I think it is a good combination is they are correctly balenced.

Teaching our kids how to run a business is EXACTLY what we should be doing in this country.

How many kids would understand their math class so much easier if they had worked a couple of months at the sandwich shop after school and then were sat down and had the sandwich shop books opened up in class and taught what all this math is REALLY FOR!

This is why are kids are not learning, we dont teach them to think we try to teach them to test.

How many kids would learn a hell of alot more about math from talking the wieghts and tension on the machines at the gym as well as get them interested in keeping fit?

It's not what schools should be teaching, especially grammar schools.

 

[Truthmatters]

So we should not be teaching kids hands on how business works and WHY they need math?

 

[Annie]

So we should not be teaching kids hands on how business works and WHY they need math?

We should be teaching them process and facts, before application in reality? We shouldn't teach them how to be thoughtful, prudent, and informed, before making large decisions?

 

[Truthmatters]

This method would teach them all of that and more.

it would teach them respect for our system of capitalistic endevor.

You are a smart and reasoned person ,Ive seen it in your posts.

Please apply all that to the reality that kids need to learn why they need to learn and these ideas would go a long way in getting them there.

 

[CSM]

This method would teach them all of that and more.

it would teach them respect for our system of capitalistic endevor.

You are a smart and reasoned person ,Ive seen it in your posts.

Please apply all that to the reality that kids need to learn why they need to learn and these ideas would go a long way in getting them there.

What about History, Art, English, Chemistry, Biology and other subjects not directly related to math and business?

One of the things I hated most about school was the idea the "everyone" had to do well at "everything". I suspect there are many students who are just not interested in math and business.

 

[Annie]

This method would teach them all of that and more.

it would teach them respect for our system of capitalistic endevor.

You are a smart and reasoned person ,Ive seen it in your posts.

Please apply all that to the reality that kids need to learn why they need to learn and these ideas would go a long way in getting them there.

In all honesty, the reason so many high school students cannot properly do math or understand what they read in a comprehensive manner has less to do with learning disabilities, bad attitudes, or at least until about 5th grade, poor self-discipline. In reality, it's poor methodologies in teaching, including the whole approach to making the lessons 'relevant' in ways that students haven't yet been prepared for.

Believe it or not, they are not little adults and treating them as such will not change that.

 

[Annie]

What about History, Art, English, Chemistry, Biology and other subjects not directly related to math and business?

One of the things I hated most about school was the idea the "everyone" had to do well at "everything". I suspect there are many students who are just not interested in math and business.

The average student is 'average,' meaning a C or 3 or whatever little mark they wish to give him/her. Truth is, most of us 'average' people have strengths and weaknesses, so we get a smattering of A's, more B's, some D's, and few F's.

With that said, I math disabled that I am, still needed to be able to get the basics of algebra and geometry, shoot I got through trig, not well but passed.

 

[Truthmatters]

So you are saying our American kids are just to stupid to excell?

Im saying lets get each kid to perform at their own top level.

Teaching kids skills they need to live in our society is best for our society.

I have found that when you expose kids to the good things in the world around them they will be better able to reach their personal highest level.

If we teach kids through methods like Music they do better in things like math.

When you teach kids through methods like exposuer to business and physical hands on applications they learn so much more.

why do you think they wouldnt?

 

[Eightball]

I'd hate to be one of the students at that school on the day that the expresso machine broke.

 

[Annie]

So you are saying our American kids are just to stupid to excell?

Im saying lets get each kid to perform at their own top level.

Teaching kids skills they need to live in our society is best for our society.

I have found that when you expose kids to the good things in the world around them they will be better able to reach their personal highest level.

If we teach kids through methods like Music they do better in things like math.

When you teach kids through methods like exposuer to business and physical hands on applications they learn so much more.

why do you think they wouldnt?

Do YOU have a clue to how most kids can learn how to excel? Didn't think so.

 

[Truthmatters]

what a well reasoned response

 

[Annie]

what a well reasoned response

Yes, since you keep repeating your 'original thought' regarding education, with nothing to back it up.

Now, if you wish to say that high school students can run a bookstore/supplies area, as part of the curriculum of a business administration class, I'm with you. Including figuring out taxes and purchasing the inventory.

If you wish to give hands on activities to grammar school kids, you better leave it at the allowance level. They need the time available to do more than work a business.

 

[Truthmatters]

Why are you refusing to understand what this post is about?

Its about using innovative ways to teach and supliment the school coffers.

I gave a couple of examples how this might be done.

I never sugested having elementary school kids working in a gym.

You seem to want to shoot this all down without even adding any ideas as to how it might be possible to make our schools meet these possibilities.

Im going to assume you really think high school kids cant work and learn in a way that adds to their own school coffers?

Why do you only seem interested in killing the ideas?

 

[Annie]

Why are you refusing to understand what this post is about?

Its about using innovative ways to teach and supliment the school coffers.

I gave a couple of examples how this might be done.

I never sugested having elementary school kids working in a gym.

You seem to want to shoot this all down without even adding any ideas as to how it might be possible to make our schools meet these possibilities.

Im going to assume you really think high school kids cant work and learn in a way that adds to their own school coffers?

Why do you only seem interested in killing the ideas?

And there you go reframing the discussion. I have 0 intention of 'killing' ideas, rather I believe that US schools should focus on teaching the age appropriate curriculum from k-12. As I stated, to do something on the order of your suggestion, grades 9 or 10-12, might be appropriate in the parameters of the appropriate class.

In the lower grades, such as the school that was mentioned in the first post, no.

Now educationally, I suppose there are students at both levels, that when ability, differentiation, multiple intelligences are brought to bear, we could have a different discussion and outcome of my analysis.

We are both entitled to our opinions though, of course. Where we differ, I teach and have some familiarity with both students, curriculum, readiness, and fallout from half-baked methodologies.

 

[Truthmatters]

What makes you think that the imput of teachers would not be a source in the implimenting of such ideas?

I love teachers and have one in my family.

Shes a life long R and has developed a new way of teaching english.

She is hopefully going to publish it soon.

She has had GREAT success with her method and they put all the kids who "cant learn" in her class.

She raises their grade level a couple of years in many cases.

She thinks outside the box and is often punished for it but they now pretty much pretend she is keeping to the district guidlines because they dont want to lose the effect on their numbers.

We need to get kids ready to live in a capitalistic society, the best way to do that is to teach them how it works.

Kids used to have lemonade stands and delivered papers.

The world has become a little dangerous for that one so we need to replace it in the schools.

I think programs COULD be designed to even encompass elementary level.

 

[Annie]

lemonade stands? Great idea, with parents keeping a close eye on of course.

Well of course teachers would be 'involved' in your ideas or any new ideas, they have to write the 'curriculum' and tie it to standards.

What's 'wrong' with your idea, IMO, is the assumption that schools are needed for something like this. Check out all the kids that start their own businesses, with way more learning going on than you'd ever find in a course in even college level business courses.

I have great respect for all teachers that bring new methods of presentation of the material to the students, I've not used the same lesson plan twice in 10 years. However, I do use the same standards and objectives, (what is necessary for the kids to know and at what level I will recognize mastery of the material.)

When the methods used usurp the learning measures in importance, there are serious problems. Beware of too many product projects, those are usually teachers that are more concerned with good press than with helping the students learn a process or make the necessary connections for the student generalizing the information.

 

[Truthmatters]

Her results speak for themselfs.

She is pattening the method and I dont blame her.

It amazes me how you can be against an idea simply because I sugested it.

This is why we cant get anything done that makes a real differance.

These are the kinds of things people can use to spur kids to learn.

You as a teacher should know people learn in different ways.

The more ways you use to reach kids the better your results are.

This is one of the reasons her program works so well.

She uses a very different method and she looks at the english language in a different way.

She has spotted patterns that were as till now unnoticed and she teaches the kids these patterns.

The language all of the sudden begins to make sense to them and they pick it up very quickly.

Using the same old tired methods and teaching to the test is why we cant get our kids making the ground they need.

Im sure your a good teacher but innovation should always be welcome especially in a field where the goal is learning to think not just memorize.

 

[maineman]

regardless of the financial breakeven timeframe here, it is more than a matter of practicality or functionality..it is a matter of perception.

I don't care how quickly the machine pays for itself, the perception - especially from people who have children and could never afford a coffee maker such as that - is that this is an extravagance and that their tax dollars could be much better spent on things for their children.

and those same people will be indirectly approving the school budget at some point in time in the future. Seems like a bad move to me.

 

[Truthmatters]

But it fwill pay for itsefl and then become a money generator for the school food program.

They will in the end be able to feed the kids a much healthier menu at a lower cost.

We really need to start thinking out of the box for ways to fund the type of schooling we need.

We have a capitalistic democracy and we need to teach kids how to make the most of it.

The ideas which fall along this vein are what will enable us to our kids and prepare them to be entreprenuers instead of mindless workers.

It teaches them, raises funds, inspires them to be business owners, inspires them to create jobs for others, inspires inovation in the market and helps create a growing tax base.

I just dont get it ,it has something for everyone.

 

[maineman]

regardless of the financial breakeven timeframe here, it is more than a matter of practicality or functionality..it is a matter of perception.
I don't care how quickly the machine pays for itself, the perception - especially from people who have children and could never afford a coffee maker such as that - is that this is an extravagance and that their tax dollars could be much better spent on things for their children.
and those same people will be indirectly approving the school budget at some point in time in the future. Seems like a bad move to me.

I could give a shit if it makes money or not.... the voter will not know, will not take the time to know, and will not understand how a $15K coffee machine is anything but an extravagance.

This isn't about teaching kids about entrepreneurship, it is about having parents vote for a school board who will keep funding the school system.