100 years in Iraq?

[Avatar4321]

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I must confess, I was stunned by this. I understand the need to be and win in Iraq. and I completely understand what McCain was saying. But hearing him say it was very shocking. I think the members of the audience were in agreement there.

I don't know if it will effect him in New Hampshire. But if he wins the nomination, it would make an effective sound byte in the general for the anti war vote to rally around.

 

[JimH52]

I like McCain but that is scary.

 

[jillian]

I'm actually not sure it's scary. He's not wrong that we've been in korea for 60 years. And he specifically qualified it by saying "as long as our troops aren't being hurt"... (that's a paraphrase, btw). I don't think we should be there, but he does, so what he's saying really doesn't seem so incredible.

But why do you have to be "anti-war" to think being in Iraq is stupid? Perhaps it's better to only be pro wars that make sense.

 

[DeadCanDance]

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I must confess, I was stunned by this. I understand the need to be and win in Iraq. and I completely understand what McCain was saying. But hearing him say it was very shocking. I think the members of the audience were in agreement there.

I don't know if it will effect him in New Hampshire. But if he wins the nomination, it would make an effective sound byte in the general for the anti war vote to rally around.

Why are you stunned. Some of us were predicting 5 years ago, that one major goal of the invasion was to establish permanent military bases, and that we were never leaving iraq.

And we used to get laughed at and called tinfoil hats for saying that. We were assured by bush fans that we were going to leave iraq.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why are you stunned. Some of us were predicting 5 years ago, that one major goal of the invasion was to establish permanent military bases, and that we were never leaving iraq.

And we used to get laughed at and called tinfoil hats for saying that. We were assured by bush fans that we were going to leave iraq.

No you were not, you were assured that eventually we would not be doing the fighting. That we would not need 150k troops there. No one ever told you we weren't going to keep bases there if we were allowed to.

 

[DeadCanDance]

No you were not, you were assured that eventually we would not be doing the fighting. That we would not need 150k troops there. No one ever told you we weren't going to keep bases there if we were allowed to.

Stop lying. You know as well as I do, that bush fans like you were assuring us that we weren't going to stay in iraq forever.

And you and your lying buddies laughed at us liberals, when we told you 5 years ago, that we were going to into iraq to establish permanent bases.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Stop lying. You know as well as I do, that bush fans like you were assuring us that we weren't going to stay in iraq forever.

And you and your lying buddies laughed at us liberals, when we told you 5 years ago, that we were going to into iraq to establish permanent bases.

I never denied we would establish permanent bases, we need some there. That YOU think we don't is part and parcel of the big problem.

 

[Annie]

I'm actually not sure it's scary. He's not wrong that we've been in korea for 60 years. And he specifically qualified it by saying "as long as our troops aren't being hurt"... (that's a paraphrase, btw). I don't think we should be there, but he does, so what he's saying really doesn't seem so incredible.

But why do you have to be "anti-war" to think being in Iraq is stupid? Perhaps it's better to only be pro wars that make sense.

and we're still in Germany and Japan. Heck it's only in the past 8 years or so that serious discussions here and in Japan to rebuild more than defensive military there.

 

[jillian]

and we're still in Germany and Japan. Heck it's only in the past 8 years or so that serious discussions here and in Japan to rebuild more than defensive military there.

True. But to be fair, we went in there after a justifiable war. This was a war of choice and I think the essential question is more one of should we be there at all, and the deception used to get us there.

 

[Annie]

True. But to be fair, we went in there after a justifiable war. This was a war of choice and I think the essential question is more one of should we be there at all, and the deception used to get us there.

Well you know we disagree about the 'deception.' I think in general we will be out within a few years. My guess is that the new government will want us to keep a base, but if not, we should go.

 

[jillian]

Well you know we disagree about the 'deception.' I think in general we will be out within a few years. My guess is that the new government will want us to keep a base, but if not, we should go.

I know, which strikes me as kind of funny when Colin Powell acknowledges that he's ashamed that he stood in front of the U.N. and didn't tell the truth. And we knew there wasn't any purchase of yellow cake uranium... and Blix said there weren't WMD's... But there ya go...

I think the new government will only want us to have a base if it's a government we install. Of course, that means it's a government its people won't want. We should learn from experience in these matters.

I do hope we're out soon, though.

 

[Gunny]

Stop lying. You know as well as I do, that bush fans like you were assuring us that we weren't going to stay in iraq forever.

And you and your lying buddies laughed at us liberals, when we told you 5 years ago, that we were going to into iraq to establish permanent bases.

Really now. You were not a member of this board 5 years ago. Neither was RGS. So do tell where it was RGS and his "lying buddies" were laughing at your poor little overly sensitive ass?

You are being intellectually dishonest. Please produce the evidence to support your accusation. That would be a statement from someone who claimed to hold a position in the US government that would make him privy to official US policy, and that any statement concerning leaving or staying in Iraw was more than just opinion.

If you can't, then your accusation is bullshit. A personal opinion is not a lie.

 

[onedomino]

I know, which strikes me as kind of funny when Colin Powell acknowledges that he's ashamed that he stood in front of the U.N. and didn't tell the truth. And we knew there wasn't any purchase of yellow cake uranium... and Blix said there weren't WMD's... But there ya go...

I think the new government will only want us to have a base if it's a government we install. Of course, that means it's a government its people won't want. We should learn from experience in these matters.

I do hope we're out soon, though.

Install? Iraqis voted for their government. There is no way that the Kurds are not going to want a major US base in the north. So we will be there at a minimum.

 

[jillian]

Install? Iraqis voted for their government. There is no way that the Kurds are not going to want a major US base in the north. So we will be there at a minimum.

How many Iraqis voted for the CURRENT government there?

You might be right about the kurds. We'll see. Personally, I think the whole thing should be carved into three countries.

 

[Gunny]

How many Iraqis voted for the CURRENT government there?

You might be right about the kurds. We'll see. Personally, I think the whole thing should be carved into three countries.

Not a bad idea except the Sunni and Shia would never accept it, and it's debatable whether or not Turkey would accept a "Kurdistan."

 

[jillian]

Not a bad idea except the Sunni and Shia would never accept it, and it's debatable whether or not Turkey would accept a "Kurdistan."

I didn't say it wouldn't need fine-tuning and real diplomatic effort to make it work.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Install? Iraqis voted for their government. There is no way that the Kurds are not going to want a major US base in the north. So we will be there at a minimum.

I haven't seen the latest polls, but I would wager that 80 to 90&#37; of iraqis want us out of there.

Last year, a clear majority of the iraqi parliament wrote a resolution, stating that they wanted us gone.

As for Maliki, he wasn't elected by the people. Its a parlimentary system, the prime mininster and the president are never elected.

Kurdistan? Yes, they would probably have no problem with bases. That's not the issue. Kurdistan, geographically, is a tiny part of iraq.


Having permanent military bases in a country where half, or even a majority, of people support attacks on you is a ridiculous proposition.

 

[Gunny]

I didn't say it wouldn't need fine-tuning and real diplomatic effort to make it work.

Honestly, it would take a North-South Korea type armed border(s) to work. What it WOULD accomplish is segregation of the different factions.

Not keeping the groups segregated from the start, since they already were, was a fundamental mistake in strategy in the initial invasion, IMO. Saddam had them isolated in the No-Fly Zones, and we should have kept them there, let the secular Iraqi's establish their government, then when we left, let THEM deal with the Islamic fundamentalists.

 

[jillian]

Honestly, it would take a North-South Korea type armed border(s) to work. What it WOULD accomplish is segregation of the different factions.

Not keeping the groups segregated from the start, since they already were, was a fundamental mistake in strategy in the initial invasion, IMO. Saddam had them isolated in the No-Fly Zones, and we should have kept them there, let the secular Iraqi's establish their government, then when we left, let THEM deal with the Islamic fundamentalists.

You actually just hit on what I believe was one of the things that made this war as pointless as anything I can imagine. Keeping those groups apart and keeping out fundies was what Saddam did well. It really will take as heavy a hand as he had to get it to where it was at the onset. So all that talk about "liberating" the Iraqi people (reason number 12 for the invasion) was kind of absurd.

Given that Saddam was not an imminent threat to this country and that well over 3,000 troops have died, our treasury raped and our military pushed to its limits, wouldn't you say that there were better ways to getting to where we are now and where we need to be?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How many Iraqis voted for the CURRENT government there?

You might be right about the kurds. We'll see. Personally, I think the whole thing should be carved into three countries.

You failed to notice the repeated news stories about the millions of Iraqis INCLUDING the minority ones that voted in the last election? Must be those special glasses you wear that filter out anything you don't want to hear or see.