100 Greatest...

[tigerbob]

I've been spending some time today reviewing the lists compiled in both Britain and the U.S. regarding who are considered to be the greatest citizens of each country.

Looking at the top 10 of each, the differences are, to me, quite striking and give rise to some questions /observations which I thought I'd share.

• There is only one British Prime Minister, but there are 6 U.S. Presidents. Are politicians held in greater esteem in the US than in Britain?
• With the possible exceptions of Diana and maybe John Lennon, I suspect the British list could be very similar in 2025. What about the American one?
• There are no living people on the British list, and 3 on the American one. Is this purely a reflection of the fact that Britain is an older country, or is there more to it?
• Without wanting to descend into party politics (every thread seems to end up as a pissing contest - it might be nice if one didn't) which people outside the top 10 do you believe should be in the top 10, and vice versa (click the links to see the remainder of the top 100 for each). For my part, with the exception of Diana, I can live with the British top 10.
• Lastly, what people from other countries do you think might be included in a global Top 50? Nelson Mandela? Mother Theresa? Louis Pasteur? Vincent Van Gogh? Sigmund Freud? Or going further back...Alexander the Great? Pythagoras?

GREAT BRITONS............................................................GREAT AMERICANS
1.....Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)..............................1.....Ronald Reagan (1911 - 2004)
2.....Isambard Kingdom Brunel (1806 - 1859).......................2.....Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)
3.....Diana, Princess of Wales ((1961 - 1997)........................3.....Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)
4.....Charles Darwin (1809 - 1882)......................................4.....George Washington (1732 - 1799)
5.....William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616)..............................5.....Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
6.....Sir Isaac Newton (1643 - 1727)...................................6.....George W Bush (b. 1946)
7.....Queen Elizabeth 1 (1533 - 1603)..................................7.....Bill Clinton (b. 1946)
8.....John Lennon (1940 - 1980)..........................................8.....Elvis Presley (1935 - 1977)
9.....Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson (1758 - 1805)....................9.....Oprah Winfrey (b. 1954)
10...Oliver Cromwell (1599 - 1658)....................................10....Franklin D Roosevelt (1882 - 1945)

The Greatest American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
100 Greatest Britons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[FistyTheBadger]

I don't think that any of the 3 living persons will be on the list in 2025, and I don't know what Elvis Presley is doing on the list, either.

 

[alan1]

I've been spending some time today reviewing the lists compiled in both Britain and the U.S. regarding who are considered to be the greatest citizens of each country.

Looking at the top 10 of each, the differences are, to me, quite striking and give rise to some questions /observations which I thought I'd share.

• There is only one British Prime Minister, but there are 6 U.S. Presidents. Are politicians held in greater esteem in the US than in Britain?
• With the possible exceptions of Diana and maybe John Lennon, I suspect the British list could be very similar in 2025. What about the American one?
• There are no living people on the British list, and 3 on the American one. Is this purely a reflection of the fact that Britain is an older country, or is there more to it?
• Without wanting to descend into party politics (every thread seems to end up as a pissing contest - it might be nice if one didn't) which people outside the top 10 do you believe should be in the top 10, and vice versa (click the links to see the remainder of the top 100 for each). For my part, with the exception of Diana, I can live with the British top 10.
• Lastly, what people from other countries do you think might be included in a global Top 50? Nelson Mandela? Mother Theresa? Louis Pasteur? Vincent Van Gogh? Sigmund Freud? Or going further back...Alexander the Great? Pythagoras?

GREAT BRITONS............................................................GREAT AMERICANS
1.....Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)..............................1.....Ronald Reagan (1911 - 2004)
2.....Isambard Kingdom Brunel (1806 - 1859).......................2.....Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)
3.....Diana, Princess of Wales ((1961 - 1997)........................3.....Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)
4.....Charles Darwin (1809 - 1882)......................................4.....George Washington (1732 - 1799)
5.....William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616)..............................5.....Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
6.....Sir Isaac Newton (1643 - 1727)...................................6.....George W Bush (b. 1946)
7.....Queen Elizabeth 1 (1533 - 1603)..................................7.....Bill Clinton (b. 1946)
8.....John Lennon (1940 - 1980)..........................................8.....Elvis Presley (1935 - 1977)
9.....Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson (1758 - 1805)....................9.....Oprah Winfrey (b. 1954)
10...Oliver Cromwell (1599 - 1658)....................................10....Franklin D Roosevelt (1882 - 1945)

The Greatest American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
100 Greatest Britons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What a couple crap-ass lists.
I'm not familiar enough with England to offer up some more important people, but c'mon, Princess Diana and John Lennon? Ones a whore and the other is just a musician.

And for the the US, Elvis, Oprah, Bill Clinton, George Bush. WTF is that? How about Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison?

 

[Modbert]

I've been spending some time today reviewing the lists compiled in both Britain and the U.S. regarding who are considered to be the greatest citizens of each country.

Looking at the top 10 of each, the differences are, to me, quite striking and give rise to some questions /observations which I thought I'd share.

• There is only one British Prime Minister, but there are 6 U.S. Presidents. Are politicians held in greater esteem in the US than in Britain?
• With the possible exceptions of Diana and maybe John Lennon, I suspect the British list could be very similar in 2025. What about the American one?
• There are no living people on the British list, and 3 on the American one. Is this purely a reflection of the fact that Britain is an older country, or is there more to it?
• Without wanting to descend into party politics (every thread seems to end up as a pissing contest - it might be nice if one didn't) which people outside the top 10 do you believe should be in the top 10, and vice versa (click the links to see the remainder of the top 100 for each). For my part, with the exception of Diana, I can live with the British top 10.
• Lastly, what people from other countries do you think might be included in a global Top 50? Nelson Mandela? Mother Theresa? Louis Pasteur? Vincent Van Gogh? Sigmund Freud? Or going further back...Alexander the Great? Pythagoras?

GREAT BRITONS............................................................GREAT AMERICANS
1.....Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)..............................1.....Ronald Reagan (1911 - 2004)
2.....Isambard Kingdom Brunel (1806 - 1859).......................2.....Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)
3.....Diana, Princess of Wales ((1961 - 1997)........................3.....Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)
4.....Charles Darwin (1809 - 1882)......................................4.....George Washington (1732 - 1799)
5.....William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616)..............................5.....Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
6.....Sir Isaac Newton (1643 - 1727)...................................6.....George W Bush (b. 1946)
7.....Queen Elizabeth 1 (1533 - 1603)..................................7.....Bill Clinton (b. 1946)
8.....John Lennon (1940 - 1980)..........................................8.....Elvis Presley (1935 - 1977)
9.....Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson (1758 - 1805)....................9.....Oprah Winfrey (b. 1954)
10...Oliver Cromwell (1599 - 1658)....................................10....Franklin D Roosevelt (1882 - 1945)

The Greatest American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
100 Greatest Britons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Diana is way too high on the britain list. Darwin and Shakespeare should both be higher. John Lennon will be on that list in 2025 if his music continues to endure like it has.

The American list is complete bullshit.

Reagan at #1?!

Abraham Lincoln at #2? The man who never actually freed the slaves.

MLK Jr. at #3 I like.

George Washington at #4 is alright I suppose, but I wouldn't give him that high of a spot in any other list.

Benjamin Franklin would be more of a #7.

The Fact Dubya is on this list makes the American one entirely invalid. If Dubya is one of the "greatest citizens" this country has ever had along with Reagan then I'll eat my hat. The only real polits on both lists is Churchill, Washington, and FDR. FDR at #10 is fine, though I could see him at #9 too.

I would of put JFK at #10 most likely.

I have a feeling that Patton should be on that list.

And Oprah is on the list too along with Willy?

Elvis is on there too?

These wacky lists make me want to make my own.

 

[tigerbob]

What a couple crap-ass lists.
I'm not familiar enough with England to offer up some more important people, but c'mon, Princess Diana and John Lennon? Ones a whore and the other is just a musician.

And for the the US, Elvis, Oprah, Bill Clinton, George Bush. WTF is that? How about Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison?

I would agree about Diana (though I think whore is rather unnecessary) and to a degree about John Lennon. I would have liked to have seen Michael Faraday in the Top 10. And the one living Briton I think might deserve a place someday is Stephen Hawking.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Why would anyone say Lincoln was a great American? He shouldn't even be in the running.

 

[alan1]

I would agree about Diana (though I think whore is rather unnecessary) and to a degree about John Lennon. I would have liked to have seen Michael Faraday in the Top 10. And the one living Briton I think might deserve a place someday is Stephen Hawking.

I should have said slut, she didn't charge for sleeping around.

 

[tigerbob]

Diana is way too high on the britain list. Darwin and Shakespeare should both be higher. John Lennon will be on that list in 2025 if his music continues to endure like it has.

The American list is complete bullshit.

Reagan at #1?!

Abraham Lincoln at #2? The man who never actually freed the slaves.

MLK Jr. at #3 I like.

George Washington at #4 is alright I suppose, but I wouldn't give him that high of a spot in any other list.

Benjamin Franklin would be more of a #7.

The Fact Dubya is on this list makes the American one entirely invalid. If Dubya is one of the "greatest citizens" this country has ever had along with Reagan then I'll eat my hat. The only real polits on both lists is Churchill, Washington, and FDR. FDR at #10 is fine, though I could see him at #9 too.

I would of put JFK at #10 most likely.

I have a feeling that Patton should be on that list.

And Oprah is on the list too along with Willy?

Elvis is on there too?

These wacky lists make me want to make my own.

Yes, I must agree that I have several issues with the US list, but since both were compiled by public vote I find it strange that the American one leans so much more heavily towards party politics, in particular modern party politics.

Then again, as I never saw the TV show, I can't really comment further.

Though I will say that off the top of my head I can think of a number of eminent American scientists who have contributed a huge amount to our advancement as a species whose omission from the Top 10 does the US a disservice. Pity.

 

[tigerbob]

Why would anyone say Lincoln was a great American? He shouldn't even be in the running.

23% of the "millions" who voted would disagree with you.

 

[alan1]

Why would anyone say Lincoln was a great American? He shouldn't even be in the running.

Well, he did set forth the great movement to institute massive federal control to usurp states rights.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

23% of the "millions" who voted would disagree with you.

I'm sure more than that would disagree with me.

However, I'm sure a large percentage of that percentage that disagree with me know nothing more about Lincoln other than, "He freed the slaves," and "He saved the Union."

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Well, he did set forth the great movement to institute massive federal control to usurp states rights.

He did much more than that.

 

[tigerbob]

I'm sure more than that would disagree with me.

However, I'm sure a large percentage of that percentage that disagree with me know nothing more about Lincoln other than, "He freed the slaves," and "He saved the Union."

I would agree with you were it not for the fact that apparently the final voting took place during a TV show in which the careers of each of the top 5 were reviewed in detail.

That said, people do tend to hear what they want to hear, I suppose.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I would agree with you were it not for the fact that apparently the final voting took place during a TV show in which the careers of each of the top 5 were reviewed in detail.

That said, people do tend to hear what they want to hear, I suppose.

And I'm sure this television show went into detail about Lincoln subverting the Constitution, allowing for the murder of southern civilians, and being a white supremacist.

 

[Harry Dresden]

i wonder why Alfred E. Newman did not make the list.....

 

[tigerbob]

And I'm sure this television show went into detail about Lincoln subverting the Constitution, allowing for the murder of southern civilians, and being a white supremacist.

I wouldn't know, but your tone suggests not.

On the British show, the 'representatives' for each of the finalists (rather like a defense attorney), were allowed to cross examine each other and get at some of the more 'ambiguous' parts of the lives of the people in question. For example, there was Churchill's role in the Siege of Sidney Street (1911), and his command to sink the French Fleet at Oran (1940), both of which were debated openly prior to the vote.

I was imagining that the U.S. show fully reviewed the careers of the final 5. But if, as you seem to imply, the show was little more than a beauty parade then the results are perhaps less surprising than I had initially thought.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

i wonder why Alfred E. Newman did not make the list.....

Because he is a putz and a jackass, that's why!


I am just kidding.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I wouldn't know, but your tone suggests not.

On the British show, the 'representatives' for each of the finalists (rather like a defense attorney), were allowed to cross examine each other and get at some of the more 'ambiguous' parts of the lives of the people in question. For example, there was Churchill's role in the Siege of Sidney Street (1911), and his command to sink the French Fleet at Oran (1940), both of which were debated openly prior to the vote.

I was imagining that the U.S. show fully reviewed the careers of the final 5. But if, as you seem to imply, the show was little more than a beauty parade then the results are perhaps less surprising than I had initially thought.

Oh I wouldn't know, I didn't see this show. But my guess is that they somehow forgot to mention those facts about Lincoln.

 

[tigerbob]

Oh I wouldn't know, I didn't see this show. But my guess is that they somehow forgot to mention those facts about Lincoln.

The idea of the Discovery Channel allowing aired criticism of someone who, rightly or wrongly, has become an American icon doesn't entirely ring true to me either. I suspect the same was true of Reagan and Bush. I wonder whether the Lewinsky thing was brushed under the carpet as well....

In which case, one wonders, what the hell was the point of the show in the first place?

 

[FistyTheBadger]

The idea of the Discovery Channel allowing aired criticism of someone who, rightly or wrongly, has become an American icon doesn't entirely ring true to me either. I suspect the same was true of Reagan and Bush. I wonder whether the Lewinsky thing was brushed under the carpet as well....

In which case, one wonders, what the hell was the point of the show in the first place?

Lewinsky is a media circus. It isn't important. They shouldn't have discussed it.