10 Reasons to legalise all drugs

[Shogun]

I don't recall saying that I thought alcohol was any better of an idea than pot. I merely asked what was good about pot. I was probably out of line because this thread is about the LAW--not the drug. I mean no one here touches the stuff right? But if they did they would be safe because you can't overdose on it.

Yes, that is exactly the score of the game.. good to see you came around and started playing with facts instead of trying to predict what you think might happen if pot were legalized. Speaking of LAW... funny how pot has been legal for the easy majority of our time as a nation and we've managed to get this far... WOW. It's almost as if society wont meltdown because a plant that gets you high is legal. imagine that. Regardless of elephants, zoos, strawmen and chewbacca arguements even.


by the way... It might not be so necessary to repeat myself if you could act as if you have the testicular fortitude to acknowledge when someone answers your direct questions instead of trying to run for the RHETORIC at a speed that Plato and Ben Franklin would have been proud of.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes, that is exactly the score of the game.. good to see you came around and started playing with facts instead of trying to predict what you think might happen if pot were legalized. Speaking of LAW... funny how pot has been legal for the easy majority of our time as a nation and we've managed to get this far... WOW. It's almost as if society wont meltdown because a plant that gets you high is legal. imagine that. Regardless of elephants, zoos, strawmen and chewbacca arguements even.


by the way... It might not be so necessary to repeat myself if you could act as if you have the testicular fortitude to acknowledge when someone answers your direct questions instead of trying to run for the RHETORIC at a speed that Plato and Ben Franklin would have been proud of.

You already smoke a bowl or something ? I never predicted what would happen if pot was legalized. Besides--you can't overdose on it.

 

[Shogun]

Don't be an idiot--any "savings" seen by government would be immediately swallowed up by some other silly ass expenditure. Just admit it. You want to use what appears to be a relatively safe substance to alter your state of mind.

considering which of us seems to have a problem with their short term memory perhaps I should ask you the same question....


and, again, i'm glad to see you sticking to facts instead of silly rhetoric. See, you learn something every day!

 

[mattskramer]

You are right.

OK another angle to look at it... They are victimless crimes. If they are hurting no one but themselves, should we have laws governing it?

Practically everything should be considered in moderation. There are very few, if any, absolutes. It comes down to where we draw the line. Should people be allowed to smoke cigarettes and drink? – Yeah, at a certain age. What age do we set? Okay, how about marijuana - only for medicinal purposes. Should the very sick be allowed cocaine? How fast should people be allowed to drive – 40 mph, 50, 60, 70, 80? Should people be allowed to gambol, engage in prostitution, incest, bestiality, etc? Should people be allowed to skydive in state parks or drive motorcycles without wearing helmets?

 

[Ruby]

Practically everything should be considered in moderation. There are very few, if any, absolutes. It comes down to where we draw the line. Should people be allowed to smoke cigarettes and drink? – Yeah, at a certain age. What age do we set? Okay, how about marijuana - only for medicinal purposes. Should the very sick be allowed cocaine? How fast should people be allowed to drive – 40 mph, 50, 60, 70, 80? Should people be allowed to gambol, engage in prostitution, incest, bestiality, etc? Should people be allowed to skydive in state parks or drive motorcycles without wearing helmets?

At 18 we consider them adults. They can enter into a contract, go pick up a gun, be tried in a court as an adult, fight for the nation and vote. It seems to me based on this, its a good age to set as "competent to make our own decisions".

Weed should be legal for recreational uses just as alcohol and cigarettes are. No rationale for those two to be legal but weed to be illegal. The sick should be allowed ANY drug or substance that will HELP their pain or their condition...purely a medical decision and viewpoint.

Prostitution should be legal, consenting adults and all that.

Incest? If they are consenting adults possibly, I think the hitch here comes under the potential baby and the obvious health problems that can create so on that basis, I think they can keep aspects illegal. Most incest is RAPE and forcible, thats not legal nor a personal choice without a victim.

Beastiality should remain illegal because it harms a living creature that is not in a position to give consent...much like a child is not in a position to give consent.

Gambling should be legal, but games should be fair and consumers should be protected from SCAMS.

Driving speeds are not just about the driver, there are other people on the road you endanger. Driving speed limits should be based on safety, which are determined by road conditions, location etc.

Motorcyles without helmets, they should be able to since they arent risking someone elses head nor anyone else on the road over it.

No skydiving where you can land on people and kill them, again this is a safety issue for OTHERS. If people want to engage in dangerous activities, they should be free to do so but they cant do them in a way that endangers unwilling particpants.

 

[Angel Heart]

Interesting...


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293586,00.html

Study: Substance in Marijuana Clears Facial Dermatitis
Friday , August 17, 2007

A substance found in the cannabis plant helps the body’s natural protective system clear dry, scaly skin rashes caused by allergic dermatitis, according to researchers from the U.S., Germany, Israel, Italy and Switzerland.

Allergic dermatitis commonly causes acne-like rashes on the cheeks, eyelids and neck, as well as on areas of the elbow and the back of knees. Prolonged episodes can lead to facial wrinkles, thickening of the skin and facial pigmentation. The problem begins in youth and can continue through adulthood.

Allergic contact dermatitis affects about 5 percent of men and 11 percent of women in industrialized countries, according to an article published in the journal Science.

A group of domestic and international researchers have found that two naturally occurring cannabinoid (cannabis-like) components found in the body’s endocannabinoid system – one from the brain, named anandamide and another from the intestines named 2-AG provides protection against dermatitis.

These cannabinoids have similar effects to those of the active components in hashish and marijuana, produced from the cannabis plant. Further research using mice has shown that THC – the ingredient in marijuana that produces a “high” in users — significantly decreased the allergic reaction in comparison to untreated mice.

Researchers believe activation of the endocannabinoid system in the skin upon exposure to a contact allergen lowers the allergic responses through modulating the production of this chemokine.

Studies also have shown that mice lacking cannabinoid receptors display exacerbated inflammatory skin responses to an allergen.

 

[mattskramer]

At 18 we consider them adults. They can enter into a contract, go pick up a gun, be tried in a court as an adult, fight for the nation and vote. It seems to me based on this, its a good age to set as "competent to make our own decisions".

Why 18? You have to be 21 before you can drink alcohol. You have to be 35 before you are eligible to be president. That seems to be too old - don't you think so? Why not set age of consent at 17 years and 8 months?

Weed should be legal for recreational uses just as alcohol and cigarettes are. No rationale for those two to be legal but weed to be illegal. The sick should be allowed ANY drug or substance that will HELP their pain or their condition...purely a medical decision and viewpoint.

Beastiality should remain illegal because it harms a living creature that is not in a position to give consent...much like a child is not in a position to give consent.

How do you know that the animal is not giving consent? Also, consider the fact that we experiment with animals all the time – and not just for medical advancements. What about bull fights and dog races? Do circus animals give consent? Do cows give consent to be meat patties?

Gambling should be legal, but games should be fair and consumers should be protected from SCAMS.

So, you want government regulation? What about “buyer beware”. Let’s have the private sector monitor it through participation in optional oversight and evaluation committees. Look at “Consumer Reports”. What is your opinion on the FDA? Should pharmacies be free to make and sell whatever they want and leave it up to the free market and fraud lawyers to determine their success?

Driving speeds are not just about the driver, there are other people on the road you endanger. Driving speed limits should be based on safety, which are determined by road conditions, location etc.

What about the good drivers who are capable of driving fast without causing a wreck? Do you think that people should be required to have auto insurance? I've had to buy insurance (state law) but I have not caused a wreck in a great many years. [/QUOTE]

You seem to have a very Libertarian political philosophy but it is not perfect. Still, my questions were meant to be somewhat rhetorical. The point is that practically everything should be considered in moderation. I don’t believe in pure Capitalism or pure Socialism.

 

[dilloduck]

Interesting...


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293586,00.html

Oh please---lets stop the nonsense. You want to use pot as an intoxicant.

 

[Ruby]

Why 18? You have to be 21 before you can drink alcohol. You have to be 35 before you are eligible to be president. That seems to be too old - don't you think so? Why not set age of consent at 17 years and 8 months?

As I stated, we see age 18 as the age of adulthood which is why you can vote, fight for your nation (and risk losing your life), sign contracts etc. Its a bit silly that they can make a decision that will cost them their life but cant drink a beer yet. The age 35 for president is because its an extremely powerful position and it wouldnt be wise to put someone who JUST entered adulthood into it...we are seeking wisdom for that position, not merely age of consent.

How do you know that the animal is not giving consent? Also, consider the fact that we experiment with animals all the time – and not just for medical advancements. What about bull fights and dog races? Do circus animals give consent? Do cows give consent to be meat patties?

As your first statment recognizes, we CANT determine consent therefore we cant assume it DOES give consent. I am not in agreement with animal testing or bull fights or dog races or circus animals or zoos. I also am a vegetarian so I dont eat meat. BUT, we do have a food chain and we are meat eaters and we dont concern ourselves with consent...feeding yourself is not the same as abusing an animal. I personally choose to not eat meat because I feel animals are abused in the industry and I can survive without it.

So, you want government regulation? What about “buyer beware”. Let’s have the private sector monitor it through participation in optional oversight and evaluation committees. Look at “Consumer Reports”. What is your opinion on the FDA? Should pharmacies be free to make and sell whatever they want and leave it up to the free market and fraud lawyers to determine their success?

They have to list ingredients *for foods and drugs* and businesses have to operate under a set of laws and guidelines so as to not perpetrate fraud on the public. That is part of everyones freedom, to make INFORMED decisions and to sell products based on TRUTHFUL basis. Pharmacies should have to be HONEST about what they sell and what its affects are and then I dont mind them selling their products at all. We just need to make sure we have correct and truthful information available so people are free to make informed decisions. If they choose NOT to avail themselves of the information that IS available, that is their problem and choice. TO NOT make it available and to pretend its ok for businesses to LIE or mislead is a very different thing than freedom of choice.

What about the good drivers who are capable of driving fast without causing a wreck? Do you think that people should be required to have auto insurance? I've had to buy insurance (state law) but I have not caused a wreck in a great many years.

You still have to protect others from YOUR potential harm. Many drunk drivers have also driven numerous times without getting into an accident, that dosent mean they wont ever do so. When you are on the road, you are operating a WEAPON really. Its not its primary purpose, but it can easily become a deadly weapon. Many people may feel they are capable of driving really fast safely, it dosent mean they are right nor does it mean they have control over the OUTSIDE factors on the road...the ones out of their control.

We all share the road, therefore it is subject to rules and regulations that make it as safe as we can for all that use it. Its not just YOUR BODY AND HEALTH you jepordize when driving on the road.

You seem to have a very Libertarian political philosophy but it is not perfect. Still, my questions were meant to be somewhat rhetorical. The point is that practically everything should be considered in moderation. I don’t believe in pure Capitalism or pure Socialism.

I am not libertarian at all really. I just believe that laws should ALWAYS do the best they can to balance personal freedoms against the needs and health of the community. There is no reason to strip away a personal freedom unless it truly causes great harm or potential harm to a community or significantly infringes on the personal freedoms of someone else.

 

[Ruby]

Oh please---lets stop the nonsense. You want to use pot as an intoxicant.

So? Why shouldnt people have the choice and option to use pot as an intoxicant?

 

[actsnoblemartin]

and all i have to say is, AFLAC

All I have to say is:



Oh it's really working

 

[MassageGirl]

In other words, You want to use pot legally because it's your right to use what you want to feel good ?

Actually, I have gotten high before, and didnt like it.

ALSO thats not what I said, but thanks so much for putting words into my mouth.

I think that what a person does with or TO his or her own body is nobodys business but their own.

Second, I think marijuana could have a major impact on the health crisis we are in, including cancer, MS, glaucoma, ADHD, ADD, etc.

I already know what youre going to say to the ADD stuff- How is Marijuana supposed to make someone focus!!! Well, have you ever known someone who drives or tests better high than when theyre sober? I have. They sit more still, and they are more focused. Granted, their perception changes, but it only lengthens, instead of shortening. So, they see the intersection ahead, and stop a few feet early. With alcohol, which is legal, people stop LATE. Sometimes, WAY too late.

In short, WHY should alcohol be legal, and pot not?

 

[Paulie]

It is natural for Humans to kill also, shall we legalize that too?

Natural???

No it's not. Humans as a whole aren't born with a natural desire to kill another human being. If you want to argue that we desire to kill other living things besides humans, like insects, than i might give that some credence...but my desire to kill insects stopped when I was probably 11, 12 years old. It's called maturing. As you age, you typically stop desiring to kill those insects, and start searching for "yourself"...which may or may not include a different level of consciousness.

But humans have always searched for different levels of consciousness. That's more of a natural desire than killing.

I will say this, however...the only reason that Alcohol and Tobacco are legal, and street drugs are not, is because of the corporate pressure.

Pharma corps make billions of dollars selling meth to pharmacies so doctors can prescribe it to people as Adderall, Ritalin, etc.

The same can be said for Heroin (Opium), where the pharma corps are making billions by selling it to pharmacies so doctors can prescribe drugs like Percocet, Vicodin, etc, to people with pain.

Same thing with cocaine...pharma corps sell that as Novacaine, Benzocaine, etc...

It's corporate, people. It's ALWAYS corporate.

 

[Larkinn]

Oh please---lets stop the nonsense. You want to use pot as an intoxicant.

And because its oh so hard to find marijuana in the United States, we are all trying to legalize it so desperately so we can walk to the corner store and buy some, as opposed to the house on the corner where someone sells pot?

Oh and you never anwsered my statement about the standard. The standard is not, and should never be, reasons to legalize something. Rather we need reasons to illegalize it.

 

[Angel Heart]

Here's a thought for the right wingers... In Oregon we are not rounding up illegals due to lack of funding and personel.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/editorial/118740036155070.xml&coll=7

Where is all that money and personal going... Mostly the 'War on Drugs'.

Just a thought. If we change the drug laws we can go after the illegals.

 

[maineman]

And because its oh so hard to find marijuana in the United States, we are all trying to legalize it so desperately so we can walk to the corner store and buy some, as opposed to the house on the corner where someone sells pot?

Oh and you never anwsered my statement about the standard. The standard is not, and should never be, reasons to legalize something. Rather we need reasons to illegalize it.

Bravo! Well said.

 

[Shogun]

William F. Buckley, Jr.

(1925-)



Conservative Scholar, Editor-at-large of The National Review



“Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could.”





William F. Buckley is one thoughtful conservative who became convinced Marijuana Prohibition was a total failure in the early 1970’s, and he has maintained that position throughout his illustrious career as an author and television personality. His reasoning was captured in a 1998 filmed discussion with Christopher Hitchens, Contributing Editor at Vanity Fair:



“I'm in favor of legalization of marijuana not because I'm in favor of people being allowed to do what they want to do but because I think that the war against marijuana is not worth it, that more people are suffering on account of that war than would suffer without it...



Suppose we started de novo. Shall we not legalize marijuana? First question. Do people want to use it? Answer is: Some people do. So that's one element that goes into your final decision. Second, what happens if we don't? Well, answer is that it will sell anyway, and that it will cause things like a black market, and then it will cause people to profiteer from the black market. They will engage in crime. Now we know there's 750,000 people who were arrested last year for marijuana. That's extraordinary diversion of effort that might have been put into keeping Mrs. So-and-so from being raped, or Mrs. So-and-so from being murdered. You have to wait six years in New York City to have a civil action come up because the calendar's so clogged by marijuana stuff.”



It is interesting to note that Buckley is not swayed by the anti-prohibitionist arguments which are based on the philosophy of liberty -- he simply observes that Marijuana Prohibition can never be anything but an expensive failure. And he's been right about that for a very long time...


http://sendtherightmessage.com/scholar/william_f._buckley,_jr.

 

[mattskramer]

No I do not. The entire argument is that "gee if we legalize it, we will have less crime" That theory is bullshit. People will still become addicted to those drugs that addict and still need to PAY for the drugs. Rich people may be able to afford the addiction, but poor people and those that become unemployed because of the addiction will still turn to crime to get the money to continue the addiction. Well unless now your going to claim the Government should provide for the drugs and the addiction.

Drug related accidents will go up as will problems on the job and else where.

Using the excuse , " we can lessen crime by legalizing" works on a host of problems. Why not legalize assassinations and just get a tax benefit by requiring licenses and permits? Legalize prostitution and we can test them for diseases and tax them as well. The list is just endless.

People steal alcohol and cigarettes too. Perhaps such items should be illegal. It does stand to reason that legal items are cheaper than are illegal items. I think that legalizing marijuana would end up being a plus. There would be more room in prison for those who commit violent crimes. Less money would be needed to track down “drug criminals”. There are probably many other reasons too.

Look at the problems that alcohol causes (poisoning, abuse, drunk driving deaths, etc) It all comes down to where we draw the line. In general, people should be free to do as they please as long as they do not interfere with the rights and freedoms of others.