CDZ Zuckerberg Calls for a Universal Basic Income

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by JimBowie1958, May 25, 2017.

  1. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    It has until recently.

    Now it represents mostly a unit of Banker Interest Charged reward.
     
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  2. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Dude, you are becoming delusional.
     
  3. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    A society in which everyone has financial security is 'dystopian' to you?

    roflmao

    In this scenario you will only work as much as you want to, while robots are doing the necessary labor for everyone. Everyone gets the same basic income to which you may add as much as you want through your own endeavors.

    No one is going to take your money, in fact individual taxes will likely be entirely obsolete, replaced by corporate taxes (because they will be making 90% of all profits) and a Robotics Tax, to keep the government afloat due to shrinking individual income taxes.

    In other words, the corporations will finance the government and the rest of us would work doing whatever we want to.

    What is your hangup with that?

    No, no one wants any of your pie.

    Under UBI, there will still be income disparity. So dont worry, you will still be able to flash your bling!

    Dude, UBI has nothing to do with government ownership of production. lol

    You sound like you are afraid that someone might wind up with as much as you do; dont worry about that, you will still be able to rip people off and live like a king.

    There wont be any other jobs, dude. The robots will be able to do them all without charge.

    How is a worker supposed to compete with free robotic labor?

    Next time, please give the subject more thought and try reading the four articles I posted along with the OP as well.

    You can do that, cant you?
     
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  4. skye
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    skye Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    Zuckerberg is a complete idiot and should stick to what he knows.

    His socialistic style theories have been tried in a similar way, many times by other idiots , for example Chavez in Venezuela and by Mugabe in Zimbabwe, and have led to complete disaster.

    You can't give away more money than the GDP can afford, otherwise it leads to huge inflation where you need a complete wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread and people starve.
     
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  5. anotherlife
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    anotherlife Gold Member

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    Free money or war. Yes. Automation has eliminated the room for labor. So nobody will be able to sell his labor.

    Is money a measure of labor, or is money a measure of debt, or is money a measure of network connectivity?

    Humans will need to re evaluate what usefulness is and what life is. Like a new religion. The capitalist religion and the communist religion will both fall because they both are based on labor.

    The winners of the future will be those who invent and control that new religion to come. Islam?
     
  6. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Skye read the articles I posted then lets talk about it.
     
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  7. anotherlife
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    anotherlife Gold Member

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    This is all true. Plus charities in Africa found that giving away anything is nothing but waste, because people won't respect it. So if free money is the solution, then we can only give away half of what an individual needs, and somehow make him earn the other half.

    How can we do that? Would it work to make him earn as a % of how close he is to his athletic potential? Or a % of how close he is to his artistic potential? Something that can be objectively measured but can't be made an automatized work?
     
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  8. Spare_change
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    Spare_change Gold Member

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    None are so blind as those who will not see; none are so deaf as those who will not listen; none are so dumb as those who will not learn.

    I really, really --and I mean, REALLY - appreciate the intelligence and forethought you put into your response!
     
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  9. Spare_change
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    Spare_change Gold Member

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    It is difficult to argue with someone whose moral code somehow allows them to justify theft from others so that they might avoid actually being a productive, and constructive, contributor to society.

    I make up no facts - I merely point out the flaws in your "philosophy".

    I'm just sorry that your sense of self-worth is so low that you can stoop to such a theory. But, then again, maybe you're right about that part.
     
  10. Spare_change
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    Spare_change Gold Member

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    Amazing. First .... I apologize. I assumed you would know - or would research - the meaning of the word "dystopian". I should have known better. I'll keep it simple from now on.

    Dystopian - relating to or denoting an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one.

    First of all, "financial security" is a myth. It does NOT, and cannot, exist. As long as one person has more than another, the poor's financial security is at risk. As long as assets are made available to the highest bidder, you have no security.

    You get a UBI - now you can buy bread - but, the rich person wants to own all the bread. He is willing to pay more for bread than you can afford. The person making the bread, of course, sells it all to the rich guy, and you go hungry. You have money - not enough to buy bread - you have money. But, you don't have security.

    Now, you need a bigger UBI - so that you can afford the highly inflated bread - but the person who controls all the extra capital (those above UBI) don't want to give it up. Guess what? You're shit out of luck.

    The answer, of course, is for the government to step in and force the bread maker to sell you bread at a price you can afford - "from those according to their ability, to those according to their needs."

    "... won't be other jobs." Oh, woe is me. You're wrong - there are always needs to be filled.

    "... worker supposed to compete with free robotic labor?" First of all, robotic labor, by definition, cannot be free. Whether it is the cost of the robot itself, the cost of electricity to run it, or the cost of maintenance and repair, labor cannot be free. There is always a cost. The answer is to find a way to produce that unit of labor cheaper than the competition.

    I read the four articles ---- all the same. :bsflag:
     
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