CDZ Zuckerberg Calls for a Universal Basic Income

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by JimBowie1958, May 25, 2017.

  1. jwoodie
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    jwoodie Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Good idea: Replace all other welfare programs.

    Bad idea: Reward for having children you can't or won't support.

    Important: Do not penalize people for working.
     
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  2. task0778
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    task0778 Silver Member Supporting Member

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    "Important: Do not penalize people for working."

    Even more important: Do not reward people for not working.

    Here's what I think, every person who puts out a utopian idea of free money or everything for everybody without also explaining how to pay for it should be ignored. How would it work, some people work cuz they want to but most don't? Do the workers get extra for working? Gonna be some pissed off people if some fat slob lives just as well as you do but you work and he doesn't. Human nature fellas, let's not forget who we are. Does everybody get a check, or just those under a certain threshhold? How'd you like to be the guy juuussst over the max, no check for you bub. I'm thinking most people are going to make sure they're either well over the cut or not over at all. Which doesn't bode well for income inequality, does it? A whole lot of people getting free money and a few people making big bucks.

    Somebody needs to show me the plan, where's the money come from and who is going to get it? And don't waste your time or mine telling me we'll raise taxes the rich to pay for it, they're gonna be long gone on an island somewhere with no extradition. Maybe a yacht or bigass houseboat or something. And they ain't got that much money anyway.
     
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  3. jwoodie
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    jwoodie Gold Member Supporting Member

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    What I meant was that, if a basic income plan replaced all other welfare programs, that benefit should not be reduced for people who are earning additional income. Government welfare programs already "reward" people for not working; I just think we should not penalize people for working by reducing their benefits, since this devalues their work.
     
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  4. task0778
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    task0778 Silver Member Supporting Member

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    I would rather see an EITC type program that augments income below a certain threshhold for a certain time period, say 2 or 3 years, after which you need to be moving up the income ladder. And as a society we need to be taking steps to ensure that upward mobility is possible, and THAT means a business environment that is conducive to new businesses starting up and existing businesses expanding. And THAT means lower taxes and lower costs of compliance with gov't regulations at every level. Anything that makes it more lucrative to operate a business.
     
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  5. jwoodie
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    jwoodie Gold Member Supporting Member

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    We already have millions of unemployable people. Do we want to keep spending $billions on social programs under the pretense that they actually can and want to work, or do we want to save money by giving everyone a subsistence income and letting those who do work fully benefit from their labor?
     
  6. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    That was Milton Friedman's basic idea. Of course, his last estimate of what the minimum basic income would have to be adjusted for past inflation was around $43,000 a year or so, which is about what minimum wage would be for a 40 hour a week full time job.
     
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  7. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    Economic realities make that pretty much a no go. If third world political instability and poverty appeal to you, then we can do that, but it's unnecessary and merely sociopathic to go about it like some third world dictator would. We can shut off immigration, put a massive focus on birth control, and sterilization for those who can't exercise self-control or just refuse to, etc., and take a more gradual approach rather than go with some radical ideological pogrom or other. Of course we will have to deport most Democratic Party traitors, the party of sexual fetishists, thugs, and assorted racists to do anything positive, but I'm fine with that; it's something Thomas Jefferson would do. There is no real difference between some millionaire Wall Street insider trader and a 'welfare bum', neither are productive or valuable in any way in an economic sense, they all look alike to me, they want something for nothing, just like Goldman Sachs and any day trader does.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  8. Spare_change
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    Spare_change Gold Member

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    While I recognize your angst, you fail to grasp the most basic concept - there is little or no difference between a dollar and a hammer. Both are tools of creation ...
     
  9. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    While I don't doubt you see a lot of things that aren't there, there is a world of difference between a dollar and a hammer, and the dollars made by the financial sector are most definitely not tools of creation' by any stretch, they are just as parasitic as those 'poor and lazy' you right wing ideologues claim to hate so much. As for myself, I'm not even a Communist or a right winger and don't require human life to be an 'economic unit' whose value is determined by how much money it can make, in the case of the lower classes how much they can be underpaid by some corporation for something or other, so some portfolio somewhere, maybe thousands of miles away, gets a nice big dividend for doing nothing but mooching off those hard working victims. I can fully understand why the parasites higher up the food chain hate the 'poor and lazy', they're not making any cash off of their labor, the same reason Marx hated them. There is no difference between Communists and Corporates and bankers for those that work; they all look alike, think alike, and mooch alike.

    Did anybody see anyone returning any of the bailout money from a few years ago from the rescue of your 401K's and 'investments? Of course not, certainly not from right wingers, no big wave of 'doing the right thing' out of ideological purity from any, so quit pissing on our legs and trying to tell us it's raining.
     
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  10. Cellblock2429
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    Cellblock2429 Gold Member

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    /----- You said "those 'poor and lazy' you right wing ideologues claim to hate so much." WOWZA - the first Strawman Argument of the day. Now my turn. "What about our sacred Bill of Rights you Liberals claim to hate so much?" and this gem: "Why do Liberals want to abort every unborn baby even against the mother's will?" I got a million of them.
    strawman.jpg
     

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