CDZ Zuckerberg Calls for a Universal Basic Income

[Jarlaxle]

You should probably sober up.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You should probably sober up.

?????????????

 

[Spare_change]

Good thread topic.

I've mentioned my thoughts on this forum before that technology is the coldest double edged sword we've ever had in human history, and combined with a capitalist system, a society where jobs are no longer relevant is the inevitable conclusion.

Greed combined with technological savvy is what is driving us towards this conclusion. Guys like Zuckerberg are among the biggest contributors. I could rant for hours about Facebook, but I'll reserve my thoughts on that platform for another thread. Most so-called "disruptive" businesses are leading us to this end. If someone can figure out a way that beat the traditional way on price and convenience and make it all easy to do online or on a smartphone, they'll likely be successful...but this success will come at a long term price.

Even more disturbing is that we've all become willing participants in our own job destruction. Every time we decide to "stream" an album we never purchased from our favorite band, we're helping to put the final nails in the coffin of the music industry. Every time we buy from Amazon, we're helping to kill jobs at Sears. Every time we order from Blue Apron, we slowly kill jobs at grocery stores.

We're also becoming more and more reliant on apps and technology to do the thinking for us. Remember when we used maps to find the location we wanted to drive to? Now all we have to do is use the wayz app and let our smart phones do the work. Up next will be self driving cars, we'll no longer have to think at all when driving. Oh, and when that happens -- all driving jobs will be gone as well, including all those Uber drivers who are unknowingly working for a company who will ultimately eliminate their own jobs when even those are no longer needed.

Another way of looking at this is to realize that a lot of new businesses are exploiting our own inherent tendencies to not think about consequences, and to make a huge appeal to our greed (to save money) and sloth (to make things super convenient.) As long as we're all asleep at the wheel, we become vulnerable to exploitation and we enrich those who are capitalizing on us, and we put our own future at risk for our children and grandchildren. When I think about the future, I'm fucking terrified.

Always the victim ....

Does it make you feel comfortable to wrap yourself in your play for pity?

Huh? Dude, I make my living online. I am super in tune to what is happening.

Frankly, I don't care WHERE you make your money.

You try to paint yourself, and your ilk, as poor little victims, so abused and misused. That way, you don't have to face the cold reality of your own ineptitude.

 

[Picaro]

Not a new idea. First time I heard about something like this was when Milton Freedman came up with it; a bill was proposed to implement a plan like this in the late 1960's and early 1970's, with his support, but got tabled in committee by Scoop Jackson. The monetarists should like it, since it keeps cash recirculating around the domestic economy instead of going straight to the top .1% and just sitting there.

Friedman's last estimate of the basic income needed was around $40,000 a year per adult person, basically just shy of minimum wage adjusted for inflation as it stood in about 2008. All the other bureaucracies involved in welfare and the like would disappear , at least theoretically. Many people would still work anyway, they just won't have to put up with assholes who think their employees are their personal slaves 24/7 any more, and many could get out of the cities and live in smaller, better places. This later is a real threat to the race baiters like Sharpton and most Democrats, though, as half the "Hoods empty out and disperse, so don't expect the DNC to ever get behind it unless some scheme to keep ghettoes simmering cesspools is included. It would also require much stricter immigration and criminal illegal alien controls or it will collapse in a very short time just like every other social safety net and public school systems have. Limiting it to those who can show 4 or 5 previous generations of living here is also desirable.

You don't SERIOUSLY believe all that, do you?

Believe all of what? The history is accurate, so is the commentary. I prefer different schemes, but this is a thread about minimum incomes, and so that's what I'm discussing.

You have attempted to provide "credibility" for a universal basic income. My question was simply .... you aren't serious, right? You just wanted to give us a history lesson, right? I mean .. your point is well taken ... people do incredibly stupid stuff over and over again.

So ... what is your opinion of the sociological impacts of such an approach?

Not interested in your right wing cult memes than I am left wing memes. Heard them all decades ago, and nothing new about them. Snivel to your buddies about them.

If most jobs get automated, then some method will be necessary to allow people to make discretionary choices and have some input into what is made and how much, it's that simple. Whether some twit wants to run around trying to bullshit everybody into believing he's 'super productive n stuff' and 'everybody else is lazy and deserves to die n stuff' they can go play in the flame zone or something. You can all wet yourselves there to your lil hearts content. Try the Free Republic board; that's all the dorks there do 24/7.

 

[Spare_change]

Not a new idea. First time I heard about something like this was when Milton Freedman came up with it; a bill was proposed to implement a plan like this in the late 1960's and early 1970's, with his support, but got tabled in committee by Scoop Jackson. The monetarists should like it, since it keeps cash recirculating around the domestic economy instead of going straight to the top .1% and just sitting there.

Friedman's last estimate of the basic income needed was around $40,000 a year per adult person, basically just shy of minimum wage adjusted for inflation as it stood in about 2008. All the other bureaucracies involved in welfare and the like would disappear , at least theoretically. Many people would still work anyway, they just won't have to put up with assholes who think their employees are their personal slaves 24/7 any more, and many could get out of the cities and live in smaller, better places. This later is a real threat to the race baiters like Sharpton and most Democrats, though, as half the "Hoods empty out and disperse, so don't expect the DNC to ever get behind it unless some scheme to keep ghettoes simmering cesspools is included. It would also require much stricter immigration and criminal illegal alien controls or it will collapse in a very short time just like every other social safety net and public school systems have. Limiting it to those who can show 4 or 5 previous generations of living here is also desirable.

You don't SERIOUSLY believe all that, do you?

Believe all of what? The history is accurate, so is the commentary. I prefer different schemes, but this is a thread about minimum incomes, and so that's what I'm discussing.

You have attempted to provide "credibility" for a universal basic income. My question was simply .... you aren't serious, right? You just wanted to give us a history lesson, right? I mean .. your point is well taken ... people do incredibly stupid stuff over and over again.

So ... what is your opinion of the sociological impacts of such an approach?

Not interested in your right wing cult memes than I am left wing memes. Heard them all decades ago, and nothing new about them. Snivel to your buddies about them.

If most jobs get automated, then some method will be necessary to allow people to make discretionary choices and have some input into what is made and how much, it's that simple. Whether some twit wants to run around trying to bullshit everybody into believing he's 'super productive n stuff' and 'everybody else is lazy and deserves to die n stuff' they can go play in the flame zone or something. You can all wet yourselves there to your lil hearts content. Try the Free Republic board; that's all the dorks there do 24/7.

Well, I guess we can see how interested you are in intelligent discussion.

I feel really bad that you are so badly abused by the MAN -

Let me see if we can figure how just how you plan to create this dystopian society. Everybody gets a basic income, whether they contribute to society or not. Where does this magical funding come from? Well - from those who produce, of course! So, tell us - what is the incentive to produce? Getting paid for our work, right? But, if you're going to take my money, why would I want to work? Why don't I just sit around and do nothing, kinda like you're doing?

Let's combine your proposal of a UBI with your demands for an increase in minimum wage. Today, a UBI equal to the poverty level might be acceptable. Tomorrow - not so much. Just like minimum wage, you have not increased your production in order to fund the wage increase. You simply want a bigger piece of somebody else's pie.

Then, God forbid --- there is an income disparity. Why should you have to survive on UBI, while those rich bastards working long hours and producing wealth, get all the money? Let's take more!

Face it .... UBI is simply a step to a socialist economy - and not a very disguised step at that.

You just want what somebody else has got - and you're not willing to work for it.

As for all those poor little "victims" who lose their jobs to automation - get another job. Figure out another way to create wealth. Quit whining about "poor little me" and get your ass to work.

 

[Picaro]

Not a new idea. First time I heard about something like this was when Milton Freedman came up with it; a bill was proposed to implement a plan like this in the late 1960's and early 1970's, with his support, but got tabled in committee by Scoop Jackson. The monetarists should like it, since it keeps cash recirculating around the domestic economy instead of going straight to the top .1% and just sitting there.

Friedman's last estimate of the basic income needed was around $40,000 a year per adult person, basically just shy of minimum wage adjusted for inflation as it stood in about 2008. All the other bureaucracies involved in welfare and the like would disappear , at least theoretically. Many people would still work anyway, they just won't have to put up with assholes who think their employees are their personal slaves 24/7 any more, and many could get out of the cities and live in smaller, better places. This later is a real threat to the race baiters like Sharpton and most Democrats, though, as half the "Hoods empty out and disperse, so don't expect the DNC to ever get behind it unless some scheme to keep ghettoes simmering cesspools is included. It would also require much stricter immigration and criminal illegal alien controls or it will collapse in a very short time just like every other social safety net and public school systems have. Limiting it to those who can show 4 or 5 previous generations of living here is also desirable.

You don't SERIOUSLY believe all that, do you?

Believe all of what? The history is accurate, so is the commentary. I prefer different schemes, but this is a thread about minimum incomes, and so that's what I'm discussing.

You have attempted to provide "credibility" for a universal basic income. My question was simply .... you aren't serious, right? You just wanted to give us a history lesson, right? I mean .. your point is well taken ... people do incredibly stupid stuff over and over again.

So ... what is your opinion of the sociological impacts of such an approach?

Not interested in your right wing cult memes than I am left wing memes. Heard them all decades ago, and nothing new about them. Snivel to your buddies about them.

If most jobs get automated, then some method will be necessary to allow people to make discretionary choices and have some input into what is made and how much, it's that simple. Whether some twit wants to run around trying to bullshit everybody into believing he's 'super productive n stuff' and 'everybody else is lazy and deserves to die n stuff' they can go play in the flame zone or something. You can all wet yourselves there to your lil hearts content. Try the Free Republic board; that's all the dorks there do 24/7.

Well, I guess we can see how interested you are in intelligent discussion.

I feel really bad that you are so badly abused by the MAN -

Let me see if we can figure how just how you plan to create this dystopian society. Everybody gets a basic income, whether they contribute to society or not. Where does this magical funding come from? Well - from those who produce, of course! So, tell us - what is the incentive to produce? Getting paid for our work, right? But, if you're going to take my money, why would I want to work? Why don't I just sit around and do nothing, kinda like you're doing?

Let's combine your proposal of a UBI with your demands for an increase in minimum wage. Today, a UBI equal to the poverty level might be acceptable. Tomorrow - not so much. Just like minimum wage, you have not increased your production in order to fund the wage increase. You simply want a bigger piece of somebody else's pie.

Then, God forbid --- there is an income disparity. Why should you have to survive on UBI, while those rich bastards working long hours and producing wealth, get all the money? Let's take more!

Face it .... UBI is simply a step to a socialist economy - and not a very disguised step at that.

You just want what somebody else has got - and you're not willing to work for it.

As for all those poor little "victims" who lose their jobs to automation - get another job. Figure out another way to create wealth. Quit whining about "poor little me" and get your ass to work.

Oh wah wah wah cry us all a river over your fantasy economics and BS, all of which is nonsense. You wouldn't be around today if it weren't for what dumbass right wingers like to keep calling 'socialist policies', so go find some illiterates to peddle those ridiculous propaganda 'talking points' to.

 

[saveliberty]

Money represents a unit of work reward.

 

[SYTFE]

Good thread topic.

I've mentioned my thoughts on this forum before that technology is the coldest double edged sword we've ever had in human history, and combined with a capitalist system, a society where jobs are no longer relevant is the inevitable conclusion.

Greed combined with technological savvy is what is driving us towards this conclusion. Guys like Zuckerberg are among the biggest contributors. I could rant for hours about Facebook, but I'll reserve my thoughts on that platform for another thread. Most so-called "disruptive" businesses are leading us to this end. If someone can figure out a way that beat the traditional way on price and convenience and make it all easy to do online or on a smartphone, they'll likely be successful...but this success will come at a long term price.

Even more disturbing is that we've all become willing participants in our own job destruction. Every time we decide to "stream" an album we never purchased from our favorite band, we're helping to put the final nails in the coffin of the music industry. Every time we buy from Amazon, we're helping to kill jobs at Sears. Every time we order from Blue Apron, we slowly kill jobs at grocery stores.

We're also becoming more and more reliant on apps and technology to do the thinking for us. Remember when we used maps to find the location we wanted to drive to? Now all we have to do is use the wayz app and let our smart phones do the work. Up next will be self driving cars, we'll no longer have to think at all when driving. Oh, and when that happens -- all driving jobs will be gone as well, including all those Uber drivers who are unknowingly working for a company who will ultimately eliminate their own jobs when even those are no longer needed.

Another way of looking at this is to realize that a lot of new businesses are exploiting our own inherent tendencies to not think about consequences, and to make a huge appeal to our greed (to save money) and sloth (to make things super convenient.) As long as we're all asleep at the wheel, we become vulnerable to exploitation and we enrich those who are capitalizing on us, and we put our own future at risk for our children and grandchildren. When I think about the future, I'm fucking terrified.

Always the victim ....

Does it make you feel comfortable to wrap yourself in your play for pity?

Huh? Dude, I make my living online. I am super in tune to what is happening.

Frankly, I don't care WHERE you make your money.

You try to paint yourself, and your ilk, as poor little victims, so abused and misused. That way, you don't have to face the cold reality of your own ineptitude.

lol, what the FUCK are you talking about? I'm doing no such thing. Get ahold of yourself, jesus christ.

 

[SYTFE]

Huh? Dude, I make my living online. I am super in tune to what is happening.

Interesting.

So what do you do? Is it Robotable?

Not until Artificial Intelligence is at the level of replacing most things creative and right brained, then I'd be fucked. I build websites and do video production for companies on a freelance basis.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You don't SERIOUSLY believe all that, do you?

Believe all of what? The history is accurate, so is the commentary. I prefer different schemes, but this is a thread about minimum incomes, and so that's what I'm discussing.

You have attempted to provide "credibility" for a universal basic income. My question was simply .... you aren't serious, right? You just wanted to give us a history lesson, right? I mean .. your point is well taken ... people do incredibly stupid stuff over and over again.

So ... what is your opinion of the sociological impacts of such an approach?

Not interested in your right wing cult memes than I am left wing memes. Heard them all decades ago, and nothing new about them. Snivel to your buddies about them.

If most jobs get automated, then some method will be necessary to allow people to make discretionary choices and have some input into what is made and how much, it's that simple. Whether some twit wants to run around trying to bullshit everybody into believing he's 'super productive n stuff' and 'everybody else is lazy and deserves to die n stuff' they can go play in the flame zone or something. You can all wet yourselves there to your lil hearts content. Try the Free Republic board; that's all the dorks there do 24/7.

Well, I guess we can see how interested you are in intelligent discussion.

I feel really bad that you are so badly abused by the MAN -

Let me see if we can figure how just how you plan to create this dystopian society. Everybody gets a basic income, whether they contribute to society or not. Where does this magical funding come from? Well - from those who produce, of course! So, tell us - what is the incentive to produce? Getting paid for our work, right? But, if you're going to take my money, why would I want to work? Why don't I just sit around and do nothing, kinda like you're doing?

Let's combine your proposal of a UBI with your demands for an increase in minimum wage. Today, a UBI equal to the poverty level might be acceptable. Tomorrow - not so much. Just like minimum wage, you have not increased your production in order to fund the wage increase. You simply want a bigger piece of somebody else's pie.

Then, God forbid --- there is an income disparity. Why should you have to survive on UBI, while those rich bastards working long hours and producing wealth, get all the money? Let's take more!

Face it .... UBI is simply a step to a socialist economy - and not a very disguised step at that.

You just want what somebody else has got - and you're not willing to work for it.

As for all those poor little "victims" who lose their jobs to automation - get another job. Figure out another way to create wealth. Quit whining about "poor little me" and get your ass to work.

Oh wah wah wah cry us all a river over your fantasy economics and BS, all of which is nonsense. You wouldn't be around today if it weren't for what dumbass right wingers like to keep calling 'socialist policies', so go find some illiterates to peddle those ridiculous propaganda 'talking points' to.

It is difficult to argue with someone who makes up there own 'facts'.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Money represents a unit of work reward.

It has until recently.

Now it represents mostly a unit of Banker Interest Charged reward.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You try to paint yourself, and your ilk, as poor little victims, so abused and misused. That way, you don't have to face the cold reality of your own ineptitude.

Dude, you are becoming delusional.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Let me see if we can figure how just how you plan to create this dystopian society.

A society in which everyone has financial security is 'dystopian' to you?

roflmao

Everybody gets a basic income, whether they contribute to society or not. Where does this magical funding come from? Well - from those who produce, of course! So, tell us - what is the incentive to produce? Getting paid for our work, right? But, if you're going to take my money, why would I want to work? Why don't I just sit around and do nothing, kinda like you're doing?

In this scenario you will only work as much as you want to, while robots are doing the necessary labor for everyone. Everyone gets the same basic income to which you may add as much as you want through your own endeavors.

No one is going to take your money, in fact individual taxes will likely be entirely obsolete, replaced by corporate taxes (because they will be making 90% of all profits) and a Robotics Tax, to keep the government afloat due to shrinking individual income taxes.

In other words, the corporations will finance the government and the rest of us would work doing whatever we want to.

What is your hangup with that?

Let's combine your proposal of a UBI with your demands for an increase in minimum wage. Today, a UBI equal to the poverty level might be acceptable. Tomorrow - not so much. Just like minimum wage, you have not increased your production in order to fund the wage increase. You simply want a bigger piece of somebody else's pie.

No, no one wants any of your pie.

Then, God forbid --- there is an income disparity. Why should you have to survive on UBI, while those rich bastards working long hours and producing wealth, get all the money? Let's take more!

Under UBI, there will still be income disparity. So dont worry, you will still be able to flash your bling!

Face it .... UBI is simply a step to a socialist economy - and not a very disguised step at that.

Dude, UBI has nothing to do with government ownership of production. lol

You just want what somebody else has got - and you're not willing to work for it.

You sound like you are afraid that someone might wind up with as much as you do; dont worry about that, you will still be able to rip people off and live like a king.

As for all those poor little "victims" who lose their jobs to automation - get another job. Figure out another way to create wealth. Quit whining about "poor little me" and get your ass to work.

There wont be any other jobs, dude. The robots will be able to do them all without charge.

How is a worker supposed to compete with free robotic labor?

Next time, please give the subject more thought and try reading the four articles I posted along with the OP as well.

You can do that, cant you?

 

[skye]

Zuckerberg is a complete idiot and should stick to what he knows.

His socialistic style theories have been tried in a similar way, many times by other idiots , for example Chavez in Venezuela and by Mugabe in Zimbabwe, and have led to complete disaster.

You can't give away more money than the GDP can afford, otherwise it leads to huge inflation where you need a complete wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread and people starve.

 

[anotherlife]

Free money or war. Yes. Automation has eliminated the room for labor. So nobody will be able to sell his labor.

Is money a measure of labor, or is money a measure of debt, or is money a measure of network connectivity?

Humans will need to re evaluate what usefulness is and what life is. Like a new religion. The capitalist religion and the communist religion will both fall because they both are based on labor.

The winners of the future will be those who invent and control that new religion to come. Islam?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Zuckerberg is a complete idiot and should stick to what he knows.

His socialistic style theories have been tried in a similar way, many times by other idiots , for example Chavez in Venezuela and by Mugabe in Zimbabwe, and have led to complete disaster.

You can't give away more money than the GDP can afford, otherwise it leads to huge inflation where you need a complete wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread and people starve.

Skye read the articles I posted then lets talk about it.

 

[anotherlife]

Zuckerberg is a complete idiot and should stick to what he knows.

His socialistic style theories have been tried in a similar way, many times by other idiots , for example Chavez in Venezuela and by Mugabe in Zimbabwe, and have led to complete disaster.

You can't give away more money than the GDP can afford, otherwise it leads to huge inflation where you need a complete wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread and people starve.

This is all true. Plus charities in Africa found that giving away anything is nothing but waste, because people won't respect it. So if free money is the solution, then we can only give away half of what an individual needs, and somehow make him earn the other half.

How can we do that? Would it work to make him earn as a % of how close he is to his athletic potential? Or a % of how close he is to his artistic potential? Something that can be objectively measured but can't be made an automatized work?

 

[Spare_change]

You don't SERIOUSLY believe all that, do you?

Believe all of what? The history is accurate, so is the commentary. I prefer different schemes, but this is a thread about minimum incomes, and so that's what I'm discussing.

You have attempted to provide "credibility" for a universal basic income. My question was simply .... you aren't serious, right? You just wanted to give us a history lesson, right? I mean .. your point is well taken ... people do incredibly stupid stuff over and over again.

So ... what is your opinion of the sociological impacts of such an approach?

Not interested in your right wing cult memes than I am left wing memes. Heard them all decades ago, and nothing new about them. Snivel to your buddies about them.

If most jobs get automated, then some method will be necessary to allow people to make discretionary choices and have some input into what is made and how much, it's that simple. Whether some twit wants to run around trying to bullshit everybody into believing he's 'super productive n stuff' and 'everybody else is lazy and deserves to die n stuff' they can go play in the flame zone or something. You can all wet yourselves there to your lil hearts content. Try the Free Republic board; that's all the dorks there do 24/7.

Well, I guess we can see how interested you are in intelligent discussion.

I feel really bad that you are so badly abused by the MAN -

Let me see if we can figure how just how you plan to create this dystopian society. Everybody gets a basic income, whether they contribute to society or not. Where does this magical funding come from? Well - from those who produce, of course! So, tell us - what is the incentive to produce? Getting paid for our work, right? But, if you're going to take my money, why would I want to work? Why don't I just sit around and do nothing, kinda like you're doing?

Let's combine your proposal of a UBI with your demands for an increase in minimum wage. Today, a UBI equal to the poverty level might be acceptable. Tomorrow - not so much. Just like minimum wage, you have not increased your production in order to fund the wage increase. You simply want a bigger piece of somebody else's pie.

Then, God forbid --- there is an income disparity. Why should you have to survive on UBI, while those rich bastards working long hours and producing wealth, get all the money? Let's take more!

Face it .... UBI is simply a step to a socialist economy - and not a very disguised step at that.

You just want what somebody else has got - and you're not willing to work for it.

As for all those poor little "victims" who lose their jobs to automation - get another job. Figure out another way to create wealth. Quit whining about "poor little me" and get your ass to work.

Oh wah wah wah cry us all a river over your fantasy economics and BS, all of which is nonsense. You wouldn't be around today if it weren't for what dumbass right wingers like to keep calling 'socialist policies', so go find some illiterates to peddle those ridiculous propaganda 'talking points' to.

None are so blind as those who will not see; none are so deaf as those who will not listen; none are so dumb as those who will not learn.

I really, really --and I mean, REALLY - appreciate the intelligence and forethought you put into your response!

 

[Spare_change]

Believe all of what? The history is accurate, so is the commentary. I prefer different schemes, but this is a thread about minimum incomes, and so that's what I'm discussing.

You have attempted to provide "credibility" for a universal basic income. My question was simply .... you aren't serious, right? You just wanted to give us a history lesson, right? I mean .. your point is well taken ... people do incredibly stupid stuff over and over again.

So ... what is your opinion of the sociological impacts of such an approach?

Not interested in your right wing cult memes than I am left wing memes. Heard them all decades ago, and nothing new about them. Snivel to your buddies about them.

If most jobs get automated, then some method will be necessary to allow people to make discretionary choices and have some input into what is made and how much, it's that simple. Whether some twit wants to run around trying to bullshit everybody into believing he's 'super productive n stuff' and 'everybody else is lazy and deserves to die n stuff' they can go play in the flame zone or something. You can all wet yourselves there to your lil hearts content. Try the Free Republic board; that's all the dorks there do 24/7.

Well, I guess we can see how interested you are in intelligent discussion.

I feel really bad that you are so badly abused by the MAN -

Let me see if we can figure how just how you plan to create this dystopian society. Everybody gets a basic income, whether they contribute to society or not. Where does this magical funding come from? Well - from those who produce, of course! So, tell us - what is the incentive to produce? Getting paid for our work, right? But, if you're going to take my money, why would I want to work? Why don't I just sit around and do nothing, kinda like you're doing?

Let's combine your proposal of a UBI with your demands for an increase in minimum wage. Today, a UBI equal to the poverty level might be acceptable. Tomorrow - not so much. Just like minimum wage, you have not increased your production in order to fund the wage increase. You simply want a bigger piece of somebody else's pie.

Then, God forbid --- there is an income disparity. Why should you have to survive on UBI, while those rich bastards working long hours and producing wealth, get all the money? Let's take more!

Face it .... UBI is simply a step to a socialist economy - and not a very disguised step at that.

You just want what somebody else has got - and you're not willing to work for it.

As for all those poor little "victims" who lose their jobs to automation - get another job. Figure out another way to create wealth. Quit whining about "poor little me" and get your ass to work.

Oh wah wah wah cry us all a river over your fantasy economics and BS, all of which is nonsense. You wouldn't be around today if it weren't for what dumbass right wingers like to keep calling 'socialist policies', so go find some illiterates to peddle those ridiculous propaganda 'talking points' to.

It is difficult to argue with someone who makes up there own 'facts'.

It is difficult to argue with someone whose moral code somehow allows them to justify theft from others so that they might avoid actually being a productive, and constructive, contributor to society.

I make up no facts - I merely point out the flaws in your "philosophy".

I'm just sorry that your sense of self-worth is so low that you can stoop to such a theory. But, then again, maybe you're right about that part.

 

[Spare_change]

Let me see if we can figure how just how you plan to create this dystopian society.

A society in which everyone has financial security is 'dystopian' to you?

roflmao

Everybody gets a basic income, whether they contribute to society or not. Where does this magical funding come from? Well - from those who produce, of course! So, tell us - what is the incentive to produce? Getting paid for our work, right? But, if you're going to take my money, why would I want to work? Why don't I just sit around and do nothing, kinda like you're doing?

In this scenario you will only work as much as you want to, while robots are doing the necessary labor for everyone. Everyone gets the same basic income to which you may add as much as you want through your own endeavors.

No one is going to take your money, in fact individual taxes will likely be entirely obsolete, replaced by corporate taxes (because they will be making 90% of all profits) and a Robotics Tax, to keep the government afloat due to shrinking individual income taxes.

In other words, the corporations will finance the government and the rest of us would work doing whatever we want to.

What is your hangup with that?

Let's combine your proposal of a UBI with your demands for an increase in minimum wage. Today, a UBI equal to the poverty level might be acceptable. Tomorrow - not so much. Just like minimum wage, you have not increased your production in order to fund the wage increase. You simply want a bigger piece of somebody else's pie.

No, no one wants any of your pie.

Then, God forbid --- there is an income disparity. Why should you have to survive on UBI, while those rich bastards working long hours and producing wealth, get all the money? Let's take more!

Under UBI, there will still be income disparity. So dont worry, you will still be able to flash your bling!

Face it .... UBI is simply a step to a socialist economy - and not a very disguised step at that.

Dude, UBI has nothing to do with government ownership of production. lol

You just want what somebody else has got - and you're not willing to work for it.

You sound like you are afraid that someone might wind up with as much as you do; dont worry about that, you will still be able to rip people off and live like a king.

As for all those poor little "victims" who lose their jobs to automation - get another job. Figure out another way to create wealth. Quit whining about "poor little me" and get your ass to work.

There wont be any other jobs, dude. The robots will be able to do them all without charge.

How is a worker supposed to compete with free robotic labor?

Next time, please give the subject more thought and try reading the four articles I posted along with the OP as well.

You can do that, cant you?

Amazing. First .... I apologize. I assumed you would know - or would research - the meaning of the word "dystopian". I should have known better. I'll keep it simple from now on.

Dystopian - relating to or denoting an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one.

First of all, "financial security" is a myth. It does NOT, and cannot, exist. As long as one person has more than another, the poor's financial security is at risk. As long as assets are made available to the highest bidder, you have no security.

You get a UBI - now you can buy bread - but, the rich person wants to own all the bread. He is willing to pay more for bread than you can afford. The person making the bread, of course, sells it all to the rich guy, and you go hungry. You have money - not enough to buy bread - you have money. But, you don't have security.

Now, you need a bigger UBI - so that you can afford the highly inflated bread - but the person who controls all the extra capital (those above UBI) don't want to give it up. Guess what? You're shit out of luck.

The answer, of course, is for the government to step in and force the bread maker to sell you bread at a price you can afford - "from those according to their ability, to those according to their needs."

"... won't be other jobs." Oh, woe is me. You're wrong - there are always needs to be filled.

"... worker supposed to compete with free robotic labor?" First of all, robotic labor, by definition, cannot be free. Whether it is the cost of the robot itself, the cost of electricity to run it, or the cost of maintenance and repair, labor cannot be free. There is always a cost. The answer is to find a way to produce that unit of labor cheaper than the competition.

I read the four articles ---- all the same.