Would Another Assault Weapons Ban Be Effective?

[Lesh]

Yep... and the same people who are in such an uproar over 40,000 deaths a year, would stand by cheerfully watching 10X that number if those dying were resisting confiscation. They're the worst kind of hypocrites.

Read that slowly..

FORTY THOUSAND DEATHS A YEAR

 

[BackAgain]

I was just talking about this with a contractor from the UK. The subject of the mandatory confiscation in Australia came up. I told him that could not happen here because of our Second Amendment.

I also asked him if he had heard of all the Molon Labe people we have running around.

Cool story, brah.

 

[2aguy]

Read that slowly..

FORTY THOUSAND DEATHS A YEAR

Read this slowly....or get a child to read it to you because they will obviously understand what they are reading, unlike you....

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings and mass public shootings....according to the Centers for Disease Control...

And those deaths you list are majority suicides......you have to explain how it is that Japan, South Korea, China and many, many, european countries and even Canada have higher suicide rates than we do..........

Go ahead....explain that.....

 

[2aguy]

Read that slowly..

FORTY THOUSAND DEATHS A YEAR

Of the gun deaths in 2020, the last year in the CDC data base.....

24,292 were suicides......

Of the gun murder? The majority of victims of gun murder are criminals, murdered by other criminals, and of the rest of those victims, the majority are the friends and families of criminals caught in the cross fire of criminals.........

Meanwhile....defensive gun use over the decades?

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Clinton's study by the DOJ....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.

Obama's study...

Defensive Use of Guns

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2013. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press.

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press

 

[Lesh]

You assholes talk like suicide doesn’t count.

It sure as hell does

 

[2aguy]

You assholes talk like suicide doesn’t count.

It sure as hell does

It counts, it simply has nothing to do with guns....

You don't care about people committing suicide...you just see it as a useful, emotional tool to attack people who believe in owning guns.

If you cared about people killing themselves, you would be talking about mental health....not guns.

The people in Japan, South Korea, China, lots of European countries and Canada, have extreme gun control laws.....and higher suicide rates...

You can't explain that because you focus on guns, not mental health...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide

There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.
Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).
Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).
Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)
Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.
========





The data show while the per capita ownership of guns has increased, and the rate of suicide has increased, the percentage of suicides with guns has decreased from the 1990s to 2006, then leveled off.
--------

The percentage of suicides with guns dropped from a high of 61.1 % in 1990 to a low of 47.5% in 2018.​

Several studies have found changes in gun laws have no effect on overall suicide rates but may change the number of suicides committed with guns.
Guns have many positive uses, including defense of self and community, hunting, and recreation.

Update: Percent of Suicides Committed with Guns v. Per Capita Number of Guns

Please......explain this....knowing that more and more Americans now own and actually carry guns.....

The percentage of suicides with guns dropped from a high of 61.1 % in 1990 to a low of 47.5% in 2018.​

 

[2aguy]

You assholes talk like suicide doesn’t count.

It sure as hell does

Please explain how it is that Germany, Poland, Sweden.....Canada........... have a higher suicide rate than we do....please...we will wait....

Canada....more young people in canada commit suicide

STAT	Canada	United States
Ages 15-24	15 per 100,000 people Ranked 4th. 9% more than United States	13.7 per 100,000 people Ranked 7th.
Ages 25-34	18 per 100,000 people Ranked 8th. 18% more than United States	15.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 10th.
Ages 35-44	19.2 per 100,000 people Ranked 8th. 25% more than United States	15.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 12th.
Ages 45-54	18.5 per 100,000 people Ranked 10th. 29% more than United States	14.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 13th.
Ages 55-64	15.1 per 100,000 people Ranked 11th. 14% more than United States	13.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 13th.
Ages 65-74	12.1 per 100,000 people Ranked 14th.	15.3 per 100,000 people Ranked 11th. 26% more than Canada
Ages above 75	12.2 per 100,000 people Ranked 15th.	22 per 100,000 people Ranked 10th. 80% more than Canada

SOURCES: GECD Society at a Glance 2001, Statistical Annex Table D3


https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime/Suicide-rates

Methods in japan..



https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jea/14/6/14_6_187/_pdf







And yet Scotland has a higher suicide rate than the U.S......Japan, where only criminals and cops have guns, has a higher suicide rate than the U.S....Sweden has a higher suicide rate than the U.S....Denmark has a higher suicide rate than the u.S.....



France

Germany,

Hungary

Iceland

New Zealand

Poland

Norway

Japan

South Korea



https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html



Scotland..



15.7 suicides per 100,000

In 2019?

16.7 suicides per 100,000.

And in the U.S.?

13.93 per 100,000



Suicide facts and figures



Changes in Suicide Rates — United States, ...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html



South Korea 24.7

Hungary 21

Japan 19.4

Belgium 18.4

Finland 16.5

France 14.6

Austria 13.8

Poland 13.8

Czec Republic 12.7

New Zealand 11.9

Denmark 11.3

Sweden 11.1

Norway 10.9

Slovac Republic 10.9

Iceland 10.3

Germany 10.3

Canada 10.2

United States 10.1

 

[Blues Man]

Read that slowly..

FORTY THOUSAND DEATHS A YEAR

Most of those are suicides and suicide is a choice that every person has the ABSOLUTE right to make.

So tell me how many suicides will be prevented by an "assault" weapon ban?

Hint: The answer is ZERO

 

[Blues Man]

You assholes talk like suicide doesn’t count.

It sure as hell does

it doesn't. Suicide is not a crime nor is it gun violence.

Every person has absolute sovereignty over his own body and that includes the right to decide whether he lives or dies by his own hand.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I posted an article above. Go read it. I stand by that

You stand by a post hoc fallacy, refusing to understand correlation does not prove causation.
You're really stupid

 

[M14 Shooter]

"Nope"
That's the OPPOSITE of agreement retard

Oh, I see.
Well then... give us your honest, factual, rational argument that both rifles should be banned, and your honest, factual, rational argument that any such ban is constitutional.

 

[M14 Shooter]

FORTY THOUSAND DEATHS A YEAR

^^^^^
Example of why the (D)ishonest prey on the emotions of the ignorant:
They know it works.

 

[Lesh]

it doesn't. Suicide is not a crime nor is it gun violence.

Every person has absolute sovereignty over his own body and that includes the right to decide whether he lives or dies by his own hand.

Suicide is very much a concern to the friends and families of those who have died that way.

A gun to the head is very "sure"

 

[Missourian]

Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment.

It's an ignorant argument from a historical standpoint as well...

...the Kalthoff Repeater was invented in 1630, it was magazine fed with a rate of fire of up to 60 rounds a minute.

Just for the sake of perspective...this gun was invented almost as long before the 2nd Amendment was written as we are from the end of
of the American Civil War.

 

[Blues Man]

Suicide is very much a concern to the friends and families of those who have died that way.

A gun to the head is very "sure"

And that is irrelevant to the fact that every person has absolute sovereignty over his own body.

 

[miketx]

Let's not get dragged down into a stupid argument of what an "assault weapon" is. An assault weapon is whatever Congress decides it is, and to argue about how stupid it is they include one kind of gun and not another is a waste of time.

In 1994, Congress passed an AWB: Text of H.R. 4296 (103rd): Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act (Placed on Calendar in the Senate version) - GovTrack.us

The AWB also banned large capacity magazines, though existing large capacity magazines were grandfathered. You could still buy and sell grandfathered magazines.

It is my opinion that the AWB had a negligible impact on the gun homicide rate in America.

The 1994 AWB expired in 2004.

I imagine any future AWB will have a longer list of "assault weapons", and will police large capacity magazines more thoroughly.

Now let's get down to the meat and potatoes of why this is an exercise in futility.

First and foremost, 99 percent of all gun homicides do not involve an assault weapon.

Assault weapon shootings make splashy headlines. Lots of blood and sadness.

The press tries to connect every mass shooting to assault weapons. Every time there is a mass shooting involving an assault weapon, the following days are filled with headlines screaming about how many mass shootings per week we are suffering, with the unspoken but deliberate implication these mass shootings all involve assault weapons.

The fact is, the vast majority of mass shootings do NOT involve an assault weapons ban.

Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2023 | Statista

Handguns are the most common weapons used in mass shootings in the United States. Other types of guns used in mass shootings include rifles and shotguns.

www.statista.com

Handguns are the most common weapon type used in mass shootings in the United States, with a total of 151 different handguns being used in 103 incidents between 1982 and November 2022. These figures are calculated from a total of 137 reported cases over this period, meaning handguns are involved in about 75 percent of mass shootings.


Here is the definition of a mass shooting: Mass shooting | Definition, Statistics, Weapons, & Locations

mass shooting, also called active shooter incident, as defined by the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), an event in which one or more individuals are “actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area. Implicit in this definition is the shooter’s use of a firearm.” The FBI has not set a minimum number of casualties to qualify an event as a mass shooting, but U.S. statute (the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012) defines a “mass killing” as “3 or more killings in a single incident.”


It is my opinion an Assault Weapons Ban is theater for the rubes which has little to no effect on the gun violence problem in the United States.

Fire away!

You vermin sure love unconstitutional laws.

 

[Stryder50]

Suicide is very much a concern to the friends and families of those who have died that way.

A gun to the head is very "sure"

The other forms of doing suicide are just as "sure". And often used when a gun isn't available.

 

[westwall]

Read that slowly..

FORTY THOUSAND DEATHS A YEAR

Most self inflicted.

 

[woodwork201]

What assault weapons ban? No guns were banned during the period of 1994 to 2004. All the so-called Assault Weapons Ban actually banned were some combinations of parts that might be added to any modern sporting rifle.

For instance, you couldn't have an adjustable stock along with a flash hider along with a removable magazine. Get rid of the flash hider and use a standard A2 version stock, and you could buy the rest of the gun intact.

The left pretends they did something but, in reality, they did nothing other than ban some cosmetics.

 

[woodwork201]

And that is irrelevant to the fact that every person has absolute sovereignty over his own body.

Sovereignty over one's body apparently only exists if you want to kill the baby in your body that you specifically took actions to make. It doesn't, apparently, apply to ending your life or to taking unproven (and since proven to not work) vaccines from Biden donors.