Women have to PROVE they were raped

[NYcarbineer]

She has the baby, and since she cannot care for it, the child gets taken from her. Next time, with all the work and no benefit she will be more careful. Remove having additional children as a career move.

But she can care for it because the social safety net will provide the resources.

And on what planet do you think you're going to get legislatures to pass laws that say that poor women cannot have abortions,

nor can they keep their baby?

Who is going to vote for that?

 

[regent]

Women need to be regulated more, they seem to love those abortions. Good thing we have sane capable Republican men to make those decisions.

 

[AmyNation]

It's strange how the abortion issue has gotten so skewed that now,

opposing all abortion except in the cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother is being portrayed by the Right as the moderate alternative position to the extreme position of opposing abortion in any case -except, usually, life of the mother.

Sorry, but opposing all abortion except rape, incest, and life of the mother IS the extreme position.

Opposing all abortion is the extreme version of the extreme position.

Don't let the Right frame the debate.

Personhood people are very extreme.

People who don't want to make an exception for life of the mother/rape/incest are extreme.

I'd say those who oppose but keep exceptions are moderates on that side.

 

[buckeye45_73]

She has the baby, and since she cannot care for it, the child gets taken from her. Next time, with all the work and no benefit she will be more careful. Remove having additional children as a career move.

But she can care for it because the social safety net will provide the resources.

And on what planet do you think you're going to get legislatures to pass laws that say that poor women cannot have abortions,

nor can they keep their baby?

Who is going to vote for that?

Because some women have children to get the extra check....dont even tell me you dont know about that

If you get pregnant have the kid, but just because you're irresponsible doesnt mean you get to kill the kid or get cash for having the baby. You're like eveyone else, have the kid and do with what you have....I can post stories and videos of women have multiple kids by multiple fathers....that's rediculous

 

[Dreamy]

I'm still baffled by why someone who is incapable of supporting their family would continue to have more children...

Oh, wait.... never mind.

And yet, if she gets pregnant, you would use the law to force her to have the baby.

Speaking for myself only, no I would not. I believe having an abortion is a moral choice much like many choices we make everyday when we decide whether to do the right thing or the wrong thing. Abortion should never be made illegal imo but neither should I ever have to pay for the abortion choice through our shared government monies also known as taxes and revenues.

Freedom to choose equals freedom to pay your own way.

 

[thanatos144]

You know you can't trust women to say if they were raped

Only Republicans can decide such things

Liberals are nuts......anyone can say they were raped..it doesnt mean it's true......two words.....Duke Lacross

They still believe they got away with rape cause most those kids had rich parents.......

 

[thanatos144]

I can't fathom any woman voting for Willard or one of those other right wing asses.

You cant think of any women who doesnt just think her vagina is the only thing she cares about....They vote for Romney cause he isnt a sexist tool.

 

[AmyNation]

I would definitely call this a policy that promotes abortion, at least in the short term. Although I don't have an issue with a possible rise in abortions caused by the loss of a generous welfare system.

 

[thanatos144]

I would definitely call this a policy that promotes abortion, at least in the short term. Although I don't have an issue with a possible rise in abortions caused by the loss of a generous welfare system.

We will call it a policy of stopping fraud.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I can't fathom any woman voting for Willard or one of those other right wing asses.

You cant think of any women who doesnt just think her vagina is the only thing she cares about....They vote for Romney cause he isnt a sexist tool.

It's because Junkey thinks his vagina is his only tool

 

[Katzndogz]

She has the baby, and since she cannot care for it, the child gets taken from her. Next time, with all the work and no benefit she will be more careful. Remove having additional children as a career move.

But she can care for it because the social safety net will provide the resources.

And on what planet do you think you're going to get legislatures to pass laws that say that poor women cannot have abortions,

nor can they keep their baby?

Who is going to vote for that?

Because some women have children to get the extra check....dont even tell me you dont know about that

If you get pregnant have the kid, but just because you're irresponsible doesnt mean you get to kill the kid or get cash for having the baby. You're like eveyone else, have the kid and do with what you have....I can post stories and videos of women have multiple kids by multiple fathers....that's rediculous

I have a step granddaughter who lives her life like that. She currently has four children, all from different men, who cannot be identified. Whenever she wants a raise, she has another baby.

 

[Dreamy]

But she can care for it because the social safety net will provide the resources.

And on what planet do you think you're going to get legislatures to pass laws that say that poor women cannot have abortions,

nor can they keep their baby?

Who is going to vote for that?

Because some women have children to get the extra check....dont even tell me you dont know about that

If you get pregnant have the kid, but just because you're irresponsible doesnt mean you get to kill the kid or get cash for having the baby. You're like eveyone else, have the kid and do with what you have....I can post stories and videos of women have multiple kids by multiple fathers....that's rediculous

I have a step granddaughter who lives her life like that. She currently has four children, all from different men, who cannot be identified. Whenever she wants a raise, she has another baby.

I believe most people know one or more women who operate this way. Making babies is their job. Our job is to keep working to pay for them. I can cry foul and do.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Pennsylvania Bill Would Reduce Welfare Benefits For Women Who Cannot Prove They Were Raped | ThinkProgress

or lose food stamps.

We need a section devoted to the War On Women. But, since there is none, I'm putting this article here.

Note that there was also a Dem on this little holier than thou posse -

Pennsylvania lawmakers — State Reps. RoseMarie Swanger (R), Tom Caltagirone (D), Mark Gillen (R), Keith Gillespie (R), Adam Harris (R), and Mike Tobash (R) — don’t want their state’s welfare program to provide additional benefits for that newborn. If a woman gives birth to a child who was conceived from rape, she may seek an exception to this rule so that her welfare benefits aren’t slashed, but only if she can provide proof that she reported her sexual assault and her abuser’s identity to the police...

I don't even have to ask how the rw's here feel about this. They'll just love it, I'm sure. Force women to bear babies they can't care for but then, take away assistance.

What part of the bill makes them have sex? Or babies?

GAWD. Apparently, rw's don't even know the definition of rape is FORCED SEX.

 

[thanatos144]

Pennsylvania Bill Would Reduce Welfare Benefits For Women Who Cannot Prove They Were Raped | ThinkProgress

or lose food stamps.

We need a section devoted to the War On Women. But, since there is none, I'm putting this article here.

Note that there was also a Dem on this little holier than thou posse -

I don't even have to ask how the rw's here feel about this. They'll just love it, I'm sure. Force women to bear babies they can't care for but then, take away assistance.

What part of the bill makes them have sex? Or babies?

GAWD. Apparently, rw's don't even know the definition of rape is FORCED SEX.

We know....We heard all about Clinton .

 

[Luddly Neddite]

But she can care for it because the social safety net will provide the resources.

And on what planet do you think you're going to get legislatures to pass laws that say that poor women cannot have abortions,

nor can they keep their baby?

Who is going to vote for that?

Because some women have children to get the extra check....dont even tell me you dont know about that

If you get pregnant have the kid, but just because you're irresponsible doesnt mean you get to kill the kid or get cash for having the baby. You're like eveyone else, have the kid and do with what you have....I can post stories and videos of women have multiple kids by multiple fathers....that's rediculous

I have a step granddaughter who lives her life like that. She currently has four children, all from different men, who cannot be identified. Whenever she wants a raise, she has another baby.

You have a lie for every occasion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, as it stands.... they are not forced to have said babies.


so this is all faux rage luddy.

The OP's BS aside, this is still a disturbing proposition. I can't help but note the part that requires a woman to not only prove she reported the assault (which is easy enough to do, if you did report it), but that she reported the attacker's identity to the police also. That is way too much. What if she doesn't know the attacker's ID? I don't like laws that can place unreasonable demands on people, with their only saving grace being the "honest" intentions of those wielding the power of law. Especially when we're talking about laws that are ideologically bent.

Not to mention, what if she didn't report the attack? Many women refrain from reporting rapes out of shame, or fear, or for some other reason. While I would always encourage a woman to report a rape, it's her right to not do so and I cannot tolerate anything that interferes with her own freely determined decision in that regards.

Finally, shouldn't we have a goal to promote reasonable alternatives to abortion as a means of dealing with unintended pregnancies? If a woman is raped, becomes pregnant, and is otherwise prepared to see the pregnancy to term, I don't think it serves anyone's interests or ideology to compound things for her such as to make abortion a more preferrable alternative.

Someone else who can't read. Do you have any idea what the term "If known" means?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The bill is designed to remove the incentive of low income women who are on assistance to have more children they cant afford.

That is not a bad thing.

No, not a bad goal. But a very bad way of going about it.

Why is it a bad way of going about it? The bill specifically makes an exception for victims of crimes who choose to have the babies instead of getting an abortion. seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The title of the thread is misleading.

As background, the State of Pennsylvania did not want to provide additional financial support for a woman who had additional children AFTER she was already on the welfare rolls. However, the woman could ask for en exception if she made a claim that the pregnancy was the result of rape. To receive the exception, the woman did not have to PROVE the rape itself, but only that she REPORTED the rape. Here is the relevant portion of the legislation according to the link posted by OP.


“Elimination of benefits under subsection (d) shall not apply to any child conceived as a result of rape or incest if the department: (1) receives a non-notarized, signed statement from the pregnant woman stating that she was a victim of rape or incest, as the case may be, and that she reported the crime, including the identity of the offender, if known, to a law enforcement agency having the requisite jurisdiction or, in the case of incest where a pregnant minor is the victim, to the county child protective service agency and stating the name of the law enforcement agency or child protective service agency to which the report was made and the date such report was made.”

The article went on to say that the woman was required to sign a statement affirming she understands that “false reports to law enforcement authorities are punishable by law.”

There is a difference between a woman having to prove she was raped and a woman having only to prove she reported the rape. At this point, I will reserve expressing an opinion on whether or not it is proper to require a woman to report the rape to get additional benefits. I merely wanted to set the record straight.

Good luck with that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Pennsylvania Bill Would Reduce Welfare Benefits For Women Who Cannot Prove They Were Raped | ThinkProgress

or lose food stamps.

We need a section devoted to the War On Women. But, since there is none, I'm putting this article here.

Note that there was also a Dem on this little holier than thou posse -

Pennsylvania lawmakers — State Reps. RoseMarie Swanger (R), Tom Caltagirone (D), Mark Gillen (R), Keith Gillespie (R), Adam Harris (R), and Mike Tobash (R) — don’t want their state’s welfare program to provide additional benefits for that newborn. If a woman gives birth to a child who was conceived from rape, she may seek an exception to this rule so that her welfare benefits aren’t slashed, but only if she can provide proof that she reported her sexual assault and her abuser’s identity to the police...

I don't even have to ask how the rw's here feel about this. They'll just love it, I'm sure. Force women to bear babies they can't care for but then, take away assistance.

The way you are framing this is a bit misleading. They don't have to prove they were raped, they have to prove that they reported a rape.

If a woman gives birth to a child who was conceived from rape, she may seek an exception to this rule so that her welfare benefits aren’t slashed, but only if she can provide proof that she reported her sexual assault and her abuser’s identity to the police ...

Elimination of benefits under subsection (d) shall not apply to any child conceived as a result of rape or incest if the department: (1) receives a non-notarized, signed statement from the pregnant woman stating that she was a victim of rape or incest, as the case may be, and that she reported the crime, including the identity of the offender, if known, to a law enforcement agency having the requisite jurisdiction or, in the case of incest where a pregnant minor is the victim, to the county child protective service agency and stating the name of the law enforcement agency or child protective service agency to which the report was made and the date such report was made.

That said, it's still outrageous, IMO.

Why?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree.

I focused on the bill, and only glanced at the "exception if you're raped" issue.

I can understand the worry over this exception. If you are having a child specifically to get those extra benefits then having to declare you were raped may not be a big issue.

However I think signing a Notarized statement to the effect, should be all the proof the state asks for. Police reports, attackers names etc, that's not the states business.

Rape is a crime so the name of the attacker and medical records are definitely the state's business.

There are women who would well claim to have been raped five or six times to run up the their tab on the state. It is entirely reasonable for the state to have a woman prove she was raped. She is asking the state for money, therefore the state has a perfect right to set conditions on receiving that money.

Like I said, I can see the issue, however demanding her medial records and the name of her attacker is crossing the line into intrusive big brother government.

You also forget, that a woman who declares to the state that her child is a product of rape, cannot then declare a father on sed child's birth certificate, or seek child support.

I don't think the issue will arise often enough to justify the state treating poor women like criminals.

They are not demanding medical records, they are asking for the date the crime was reported, and who it was reported to. That is all public record stuff, which means it is available to anyone who asks for it.