Without education, what kind of jobs will be available to young Americans?

[Unkotare]

It's our public k-12 education that - on the average - comes up short. Our private schools, k-12 public in areas with functional families, and the competitive university system are excellent.

 

[FA_Q2]

It should not be lost in all this that our universities are by far the best in the world, and that international students in the hundreds of thousands flock to the US (a strong majority from the very countries with which some like to compare us unfavorably) to study in our junior and senior high schools as well as universities.

Why is our education so horrible in comparison than?

Various reasons but the greatest is that we test and compare 100% of our populous while many other countries do not. The ranking is not even. Many countries do not offer higher education to those that have not proven they will need it. In this, I am not talking about college either.

Another is simple culture. You will find that Asians place much more emphasis on succeeding as a measure of not only self worth but the worth of the entire family. You not only fail yourself but you are bringing down the name as well. Americans have continually moved to a celebration in mediocrity. An asinine concept.

And yet other are more efficient simply because of size. In the three that you mentioned there is a definite difference in the scope. It is far more difficult to create and maintain an effective system that deals with 10 times the number of people. As with any system, the larger it gets the more waste enters the system until you reach the point where you simply cannot sustain any semblance of effectiveness.


There are many reasons that we are having problems with our education system. The method of payment is not one of them. Again, people here are acting like conservative think the solution is to remove 'free' pr public education. THAT IS IN NO WAY TRUE AT ALL. As a matter of fact, conservatives want to expand that by allowing people to transfer their children out of the school they are in and using those funds to pay for another. You mentioned public funding, NO ONE IS AGAINST THAT. They are against inefficient waste of resources. A simple fact is that we pay more per student and get less. That is asinine.


So, I am sure that you can point out those 'liberal' policies that the conservatives are vehemently against that have made those foreign schools better than ours. Or perhaps you can show the conservative ideas that have lead to worse schools in other lands or even this one...

 

[Unkotare]

Another is simple culture. You will find that Asians place much more emphasis on succeeding as a measure of not only self worth but the worth of the entire family. You not only fail yourself but you are bringing down the name as well. ...

This generalization is problematic in several ways. You are equating 'race' with culture, for one. Do you really think that everyone in the most heavily populated region of earth is the same? There is a great diversity of cultures throughout Asia (and, of course, individually within each culture). In some of the poorer countries of SEA you will find people a lot more concerned with survival than education. This is the basis of the myth of the model minority that many students from Asia face when coming to the US. Students with a lot of the same challenges that face poor students with often difficult living situations from anywhere are held to unrealistic expectations just because they are 'Asian,' and it can be very discouraging. A poor Khmer student whose fractured family managed to secure asylum in the US is expected to be a carbon copy of a South Korean student from a wealthy family with a history of academic success and all the material support possible. It's unfair and unrealistic to equate the two. Even within the wealthier nations (or parts of nations) of NEA not everyone worships at the altar of education just because they are 'Asian.' There are truck drivers, gangsters, and layabouts in Japan, Korea, and Hong Kong as well. Part of the poor comparison with US education is that in those countries those students are unlikely to be factored into performance measures, whereas our lowest performing students are often the focus of attention (for good reason) and bring down the average. Finally, the ideal of valuing education is hardly exclusive to Asia. Ideals are more difficult to maintain in the face of poverty, violence, and corrosive influences.

It is not a 'racial' thing, and a more nuanced cultural thing than people often stop to consider.

 

[NoNukes]

Also, still waiting for someone to substantiate those asinine statements about how much better liberal states are with education, how much better left policies have been and any of the other partisan hack statements that have been put forth so far....

It's worked well in countries that have education that is better than ours in every way.

Repeating an opinion is not substantiation.

One reason that the education in America is worse than in other countries is people like you being unable to admit to it because you have tunnel vision. Tunnel vision is a disease in which perception is restricted by ignorance and distorted by vested interest. Tunnel vision is caused by an optic fungus that multiplies when the brain is less energetic than the ego. It is complicated by exposure to politics.

 

[NoNukes]

It should not be lost in all this that our universities are by far the best in the world, and that international students in the hundreds of thousands flock to the US (a strong majority from the very countries with which some like to compare us unfavorably) to study in our junior and senior high schools as well as universities.

This is simply not true. What are you basing it on? people flock to universities in Europe. They flock to European countries for a better life, Just as they come to the United States. Americans have little idea of what is happening in the rest of the world.

 

[NoNukes]

Which countries have education that is better than ours in every way? Are your measurements based on test scores? Outcomes after primary schooling?

It is because of demand from business for students from countries with superior educational systems.

'Demand for students'?

?????????

Graduates.

 

[Unkotare]

It should not be lost in all this that our universities are by far the best in the world, and that international students in the hundreds of thousands flock to the US (a strong majority from the very countries with which some like to compare us unfavorably) to study in our junior and senior high schools as well as universities.

This is simply not true. What are you basing it on?]

This, jackass http://www.topuniversities.com/top-100-universities-in-the-world-2011

 

[Unkotare]

It is because of demand from business for students from countries with superior educational systems.

'Demand for students'?

?????????

Graduates.

Those would be people who are no longer students.

 

[Unkotare]

Americans have little idea of what is happening in the rest of the world.[/B]

Speak for yourself, douchebag.

 

[FA_Q2]

Another is simple culture. You will find that Asians place much more emphasis on succeeding as a measure of not only self worth but the worth of the entire family. You not only fail yourself but you are bringing down the name as well. ...

This generalization is problematic in several ways. You are equating 'race' with culture, for one. Do you really think that everyone in the most heavily populated region of earth is the same? There is a great diversity of cultures throughout Asia (and, of course, individually within each culture). In some of the poorer countries of SEA you will find people a lot more concerned with survival than education. This is the basis of the myth of the model minority that many students from Asia face when coming to the US. Students with a lot of the same challenges that face poor students with often difficult living situations from anywhere are held to unrealistic expectations just because they are 'Asian,' and it can be very discouraging. A poor Khmer student whose fractured family managed to secure asylum in the US is expected to be a carbon copy of a South Korean student from a wealthy family with a history of academic success and all the material support possible. It's unfair and unrealistic to equate the two. Even within the wealthier nations (or parts of nations) of NEA not everyone worships at the altar of education just because they are 'Asian.' There are truck drivers, gangsters, and layabouts in Japan, Korea, and Hong Kong as well. Part of the poor comparison with US education is that in those countries those students are unlikely to be factored into performance measures, whereas our lowest performing students are often the focus of attention (for good reason) and bring down the average. Finally, the ideal of valuing education is hardly exclusive to Asia. Ideals are more difficult to maintain in the face of poverty, violence, and corrosive influences.

It is not a 'racial' thing, and a more nuanced cultural thing than people often stop to consider.

There are exceptions and it is a generalization but the fact remains that most Asian cultures place a higher value on success and honor than we currently have. It is moot to the point anyway. Whatever culture you are referring to and whatever specific peoples that you use, the point still stands. That is one of the reasons that we are lagging behind in education.

 

[NoNukes]

'Demand for students'?

?????????

Graduates.

Those would be people who are no longer students.

I corrected myself, you are doing this because you are wrong, and this time of the night, or morning, you are pretty nasty. Could alcohol be involved?

 

[NoNukes]

Americans have little idea of what is happening in the rest of the world.[/B]

Speak for yourself, douchebag.

Who do you think I am speaking for? Why do you not get some sleep and sober up?

 

[daveman]

It's worked well in countries that have education that is better than ours in every way.

Repeating an opinion is not substantiation.

I'm just stating fact. Not opinion.

Until it's substantiated, it's opinion.

Finland

In tertiary education, two mostly separate and non-interoperating sectors are found: the profession-oriented polytechnics and the research-oriented universities. Education is free and living expenses are to a large extent financed by the government through student benefits. There are 20 universities and 30 polytechnics in the country. Helsinki University is ranked 75th in the Top University Ranking of 2010.[71] The World Economic Forum ranks Finland's tertiary education #2 in the world.[72] Around 33% of residents have a tertiary degree, similar to Nordics and more than in most other OECD countries except Canada (44%), United States (38%) and Japan(37%).[73] The proportion of foreign students is 3% of all tertiary enrolments, one of the lowest in OECD, while in advanced programs it is 7.3%, still below OECD average 16.5%.[74]


Denmark


The Danish education system provides access to primary school, secondary school and most kinds of higher education. Attendance at "Folkeskole" or equivalent education is compulsory for a minimum of 9 years. Equivalent education could be in private schools or classes attended at home. About 99% of students attend primary school, 86% attend secondary school, and 41% pursue further education. All college education in Denmark is free; there are no tuition fees to enroll in courses. Students in secondary school or higher and aged 18 or above may apply for student support which provides fixed financial support, disbursed monthly.

Norway


Higher education in Norway is offered by a range of seven universities, five specialized colleges, 25 university colleges as well as a range of private colleges. Education follows the Bologna Process involving Bachelor (3 years), Master (2 years) and PhD (3 years) degrees.[120] Acceptance is offered after finishing upper secondary school with general study competence.
Public education is virtually free, regardless of nationality,[121] with an academic year with two semesters, from August to December and from January to June. The ultimate responsibility for the education lies with the Norwegian Ministry of Education and Research.


One of the few is Australia that is similar to our current system. They are up there higher than us.

The US is pretty far down the list actually.

Link? Otherwise, this is just more opinion.

Nevertheless, all you're doing is proving that American liberals fail at educating kids.

You know, something the right has been saying for decades.

 

[daveman]

It's worked well in countries that have education that is better than ours in every way.

Repeating an opinion is not substantiation.

One reason that the education in America is worse than in other countries is people like you being unable to admit to it because you have tunnel vision. Tunnel vision is a disease in which perception is restricted by ignorance and distorted by vested interest. Tunnel vision is caused by an optic fungus that multiplies when the brain is less energetic than the ego. It is complicated by exposure to politics.

So, liberal-dominated education sucks -- and it's MY fault?

Nice try, Skippy. This one belongs to you guys.

 

[Unkotare]

Graduates.

Those would be people who are no longer students.

I corrected myself, you are doing this because you are wrong, and this time of the night, or morning, you are pretty nasty. Could alcohol be involved?

You admit to the need to correct yourself but claim that I am wrong? I think you've got some wires crossed there, champ.

 

[Unkotare]

Americans have little idea of what is happening in the rest of the world.[/B]

Speak for yourself, douchebag.

Who do you think I am speaking for? Why do you not get some sleep and sober up?

Well, when you say "Americans" it sure sounds as if you are trying to speak for "Americans." Are you with me so far? Clearly the likes of you cannot speak for all Americans, that's why I told you to speak for yourself, douchebag. That clear it up for ya?

Talk about a need to sober up...you're less rational than usual so far.

 

[NoNukes]

Repeating an opinion is not substantiation.

I'm just stating fact. Not opinion.

Until it's substantiated, it's opinion.

Finland

In tertiary education, two mostly separate and non-interoperating sectors are found: the profession-oriented polytechnics and the research-oriented universities. Education is free and living expenses are to a large extent financed by the government through student benefits. There are 20 universities and 30 polytechnics in the country. Helsinki University is ranked 75th in the Top University Ranking of 2010.[71] The World Economic Forum ranks Finland's tertiary education #2 in the world.[72] Around 33% of residents have a tertiary degree, similar to Nordics and more than in most other OECD countries except Canada (44%), United States (38%) and Japan(37%).[73] The proportion of foreign students is 3% of all tertiary enrolments, one of the lowest in OECD, while in advanced programs it is 7.3%, still below OECD average 16.5%.[74]


Denmark


The Danish education system provides access to primary school, secondary school and most kinds of higher education. Attendance at "Folkeskole" or equivalent education is compulsory for a minimum of 9 years. Equivalent education could be in private schools or classes attended at home. About 99% of students attend primary school, 86% attend secondary school, and 41% pursue further education. All college education in Denmark is free; there are no tuition fees to enroll in courses. Students in secondary school or higher and aged 18 or above may apply for student support which provides fixed financial support, disbursed monthly.

Norway


Higher education in Norway is offered by a range of seven universities, five specialized colleges, 25 university colleges as well as a range of private colleges. Education follows the Bologna Process involving Bachelor (3 years), Master (2 years) and PhD (3 years) degrees.[120] Acceptance is offered after finishing upper secondary school with general study competence.
Public education is virtually free, regardless of nationality,[121] with an academic year with two semesters, from August to December and from January to June. The ultimate responsibility for the education lies with the Norwegian Ministry of Education and Research.


One of the few is Australia that is similar to our current system. They are up there higher than us.

The US is pretty far down the list actually.

Link? Otherwise, this is just more opinion.

Nevertheless, all you're doing is proving that American liberals fail at educating kids.

You know, something the right has been saying for decades.

Translation,'You are right, but I will never admit it.

 

[NoNukes]

Speak for yourself, douchebag.

Who do you think I am speaking for? Why do you not get some sleep and sober up?

Well, when you say "Americans" is sure sounds as if you are trying to speak for "Americans." Are you with me so far? Clearly the likes of you cannot speak for all Americans, that's why I told you to speak for yourself, douchebag. That clear it up for ya?

Talk about a need to sober up...you're less rational than usual so far.

I was my opinion, and the opinion of many people worldwide, not speaking FOR Americans.

 

[NoNukes]

Repeating an opinion is not substantiation.

One reason that the education in America is worse than in other countries is people like you being unable to admit to it because you have tunnel vision. Tunnel vision is a disease in which perception is restricted by ignorance and distorted by vested interest. Tunnel vision is caused by an optic fungus that multiplies when the brain is less energetic than the ego. It is complicated by exposure to politics.

So, liberal-dominated education sucks -- and it's MY fault?

Nice try, Skippy. This one belongs to you guys.

I was saying that people like you are one of the problems. There is plenty of blame to go around, but before we start criticizing, we have to take a look at ourselves.

You are once again displaying fierce symptoms of tunnel vision.

 

[Unkotare]

Who do you think I am speaking for? Why do you not get some sleep and sober up?

Well, when you say "Americans" is sure sounds as if you are trying to speak for "Americans." Are you with me so far? Clearly the likes of you cannot speak for all Americans, that's why I told you to speak for yourself, douchebag. That clear it up for ya?

Talk about a need to sober up...you're less rational than usual so far.

I was my opinion, and the opinion of many people worldwide, not speaking FOR Americans.

Then you need to work on your English skills (among other things).