Wisconsin: A real grass roots movement!

[Jarhead]

Here's something that cracks me up.

Union organized protest is call, grassroots movement.

Regular fold in Tea party protesting is call, astroturf.

And I guess black is really white and up is really down.

Compare and contrast the way the two protest. The Tea Party folks clean up after themselves. The Union Thugs leave garbage everywhere.

That about sums it up.

Well....thats because the tea partyers dont give a crap about the sanitation department. They prefer to clean up the garbage and let them fire the sanitation workers.....

 

[boedicca]

You are a moron.

It's because the Tea Party movement values individual responsibility and doesn't assume that others are going to clean up their mess after them.

 

[Stephanie]

Here's something that cracks me up.

Union organized protest is call, grassroots movement.

Regular fold in Tea party protesting is call, astroturf.

And I guess black is really white and up is really down.

Compare and contrast the way the two protest. The Tea Party folks clean up after themselves. The Union Thugs leave garbage everywhere.

That about sums it up.

Well....thats because the tea partyers dont give a crap about the sanitation department. They prefer to clean up the garbage and let them fire the sanitation workers.....

sarcasm, right.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The general argument offered by the TP crowd on this thread is the protest in Wisconsin is organized by unions and not really a grass roots movement.

No evidence is offered to prove this hypothesis but a few mass produced sign and comments in the press from union organizers; There is no mention of any outside organizatons, such as Freedom Works or Americans for Prosperity, which funded, trained and publicized the events this week in Madison.
There is ample evidence for the non-willfully ignorant to prove Tea Party events were in fact funded by Freedom Works and Americans for Prosperity, and the money used by these organizations came from undisclosed donators - though the Koch Brothers were likely co-conspirators/contributors.

The questions are these: Why did the Republicans insist on continuing the Bush tax cuts if government debt is in crisis, and why do the Republicans want to take away income from working men and women whose spending keeps so many small business in the black and helps stimulate the economy?

WTF?
Do these teachers BELONG to a UNION, or not.

Exactly.
This may be a legit gripe by the state workers....although I see them as selfish seeing as they want lots of entitlements kept while their neighbors are struggling to find a job.....but to say it was a grass roots movement is rediculous.

"rediculous" maybe your opinion, but your opinon is not supported by evidence.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Do you guys really think it's ok to make it ILLEGAL for workers to band together to fight for their livelihoods? That this should no longer be their right... as much pull and voice as corporations have in government today? Really, you think this is a GOOD thing? We should all just let corporations run over us roughshod, work us to death and pay us nothing... and take it, as we have no leverage for bargaining? Wow. Corporate brainwashing is working well, I see. This country is well on its way to third world status. Sad. Very sad.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

I thought you corporatists were all about "individual liberties" but you are really only into "corporate liberties", not "individual CITIZEN liberties". Gotcha. At least man up and admit it.

 

[boedicca]

Even FDR thought government employees should have the right to unionize, bub.

If workers can't trust the government to treat them decently as employees, why on earth should the government be trusted to enforce labor laws and regulations for the private sector?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Even FDR thought government employees should have the right to unionize, bub.

ALL employees should have the right to unionize. And they should use that right. That is the only way we will ever keep a semblance of a middle class in this country.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Do you guys really think it's ok to make it ILLEGAL for workers to band together to fight for their livelihoods? That this should no longer be their right... as much pull and voice as corporations have in government today? Really, you think this is a GOOD thing? We should all just let corporations run over us roughshod, work us to death and pay us nothing... and take it, as we have no leverage for bargaining? Wow. Corporate brainwashing is working well, I see. This country is well on its way to third world status. Sad. Very sad.

The governor is fighting for their livelihoods by trying to avoid mass lay offs. It's time for these union types to start footing their bill. Time for them to come in line with the private sector.

These workers have but three choices:
1) Compromise, and save their jobs.
2) Have their taxes raised, losing more than they would by compromise.
3) Get layed off.

Funny how none of you lib's were pitching a bitch when Obama instituted a pay freeze on federal government workers. You people and your abject hypocrisy is downright laughable.

 

[Big Fitz]

What's going on this week in Madison, WI is not AstroTurf, this is a real grass roots movement easily identified by one very obvious sign.

The signs are handmade by the people, not printed by corporate sponsors for events staged and carrried by people bussed in for a rally.

If that's a grassroots movement, you're an intelligent erudite philosopher of great depth and wisdom.

All you have to do is watch the protests to know this is about as real as the turf at Camp Randall. The hyperbole is childish and purile. Their elitist belief they are entitled to be untouchable economically is blazingly apparent.

I do hope that their fake sick-out gives the governor the window to bust the union. Fuckers have been abusing their position for too damn long.

"Timmy, why are you out of school?"
"Because Missuz Sphincter says she needs to protest the governor for MY sake! But she gave us homework!"
"Oh? What's that Timmy?"
"I'm supposed to write a letter to my state senator, legislator and governor asking them why they hate children."

Well, at least one honest response, BF lays it out: Bust the Unions!.

No... Bust WEAC. WEAC has been buying elections and engaging in corrupt negotiations for decades in WI.

I did not give an unqualified statement. ANY public sector union that gives money to politicians is operating in bad faith because they seek to influence the negotiators come time to talk contracts. The same way you will bitch if lobbyists paid for campaigns of politicians that are involved in negotiating with businesses they support, you should be screaming blue bloody murder about corrupt public sector unions.

But please, distort my meaning again.

 

[Jackson]

If these teachers would stop and think for themselves, they would see they are being asked just to help pay more for their own benefits, and not much more at that. They are not losing their collective bargaining rights for the future if the economy stabilizes.

Most people realize that we all have to bite the bullet and my guess they have uttered those words themselves at some time or another.

The president came out in favor of the unions was no help; saying these were your friends and neighbors, well so are the taxpayers who don't have jobs and sitting in the bankrupt states! As usual, the man does not have a clue. His SEIU slush fund stifles the brain. And he's too busy running for 2012 to think of the country.

 

[boedicca]

Even FDR thought government employees should have the right to unionize, bub.

ALL employees should have the right to unionize. And they should use that right. That is the only way we will ever keep a semblance of a middle class in this country.

B'loney. The biggest threats to the middle class are excessive government spending, deficits, debt, and high taxes which are preventing real economic growth and job creation.

 

[Big Fitz]

If these teachers would stop and think for themselves, they would see they are being asked just to help pay more for their own benefits, and not much more at that. They are not losing their collective bargaining rights for the future if the economy stabilizes.

Most people realize that we all have to bite the bullet and my guess they have uttered those words themselves at some time or another.

The president came out in favor of the unions was no help; saying these were your friends and neighbors, well so are the taxpayers who don't have jobs and sitting in the bankrupt states! As usual, the man does not have a clue. His SEIU slush fund stifles the brain. And he's too busy running for 2012 to think of the country.

A 12% increase in health care costs, and 5% into their pensions.

Or 20k people are to be fired.

I think the math is pretty damn easy. Take the cut and keep working while paying more into your own benefits.

But, I'm starting to wonder if it's really about this or continuing unrest from around the world here in an effort to tear down western civilization. Is this just opportunism, or is it a coinkeydink?

 

[shintao]

Even FDR thought government employees should have the right to unionize, bub.

If workers can't trust the government to treat them decently as employees, why on earth should the government be trusted to enforce labor laws and regulations for the private sector?

If government won't honor their contracts they enter in, what stops them from shutting off your utilities and getting away with it?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

B'loney. The biggest threats to the middle class are excessive government spending, deficits, debt, and high taxes which are preventing real economic growth and job creation.

Not even remotely true, but nice to know your righty talking point indoctrination is right on schedule. The war on the middle class has been going on for three decades now and Reagan's voodoo economics, and Bush's illegal occupation of Iraq and corporate/MIC welfare boom sealed the deal. But I don't expect you to pay attention to actual history.

 

[shintao]

If these teachers would stop and think for themselves, they would see they are being asked just to help pay more for their own benefits, and not much more at that. They are not losing their collective bargaining rights for the future if the economy stabilizes.

Most people realize that we all have to bite the bullet and my guess they have uttered those words themselves at some time or another.

The president came out in favor of the unions was no help; saying these were your friends and neighbors, well so are the taxpayers who don't have jobs and sitting in the bankrupt states! As usual, the man does not have a clue. His SEIU slush fund stifles the brain. And he's too busy running for 2012 to think of the country.

A 12% increase in health care costs, and 5% into their pensions.
Or 20k people are to be fired.

I think the math is pretty damn easy. Take the cut and keep working while paying more into your own benefits.

But, I'm starting to wonder if it's really about this or continuing unrest from around the world here in an effort to tear down western civilization. Is this just opportunism, or is it a coinkeydink?

If they had not already made consessions over the last few years, I might agree they are acting unreasonable or illogical, but that is not the case. And these professionals have bills just like you do, so if your wages were cut 17% , could you afford your home and other obligations? I doubt it, because most people are indebted and living pay check to pay check.

Don't ask to dance if you can't afford to pay the fiddler, seems to come to mind here.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

What's going on this week in Madison, WI is not AstroTurf, this is a real grass roots movement easily identified by one very obvious sign.

The signs are handmade by the people, not printed by corporate sponsors for events staged and carrried by people bussed in for a rally.

Grassroots my ass. It's a bunch of nanny-staters who see their entitlement system crumbling. It's lights out and they know it; a pathetic display by a bunch of insolent children.

Now, go back to sleep.

 

[Jackson]

If these teachers would stop and think for themselves, they would see they are being asked just to help pay more for their own benefits, and not much more at that. They are not losing their collective bargaining rights for the future if the economy stabilizes.

Most people realize that we all have to bite the bullet and my guess they have uttered those words themselves at some time or another.

The president came out in favor of the unions was no help; saying these were your friends and neighbors, well so are the taxpayers who don't have jobs and sitting in the bankrupt states! As usual, the man does not have a clue. His SEIU slush fund stifles the brain. And he's too busy running for 2012 to think of the country.

A 12% increase in health care costs, and 5% into their pensions.
Or 20k people are to be fired.

I think the math is pretty damn easy. Take the cut and keep working while paying more into your own benefits.

But, I'm starting to wonder if it's really about this or continuing unrest from around the world here in an effort to tear down western civilization. Is this just opportunism, or is it a coinkeydink?

If they had not already made consessions over the last few years, I might agree they are acting unreasonable or illogical, but that is not the case. And these professionals have bills just like you do, so if your wages were cut 17% , could you afford your home and other obligations? I doubt it, because most people are indebted and living pay check to pay check.

Don't ask to dance if you can't afford to pay the fiddler, seems to come to mind here.

Have they made monetary concessions before this?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I thought you corporatists were all about "individual liberties" but you are really only into "corporate liberties", not "individual CITIZEN liberties". Gotcha. At least man up and admit it.

I'm not sure what the Tea Party is, it seems to be a hybrid of social conservatives, fiscal conservatives and callous conservatives who embrace simple ideas and simple solutions to complex problems.

As a group they tend to ignore problem analysis, such as cause and effect, cost benefit/cost deficit reasoning and waiver not from an ideology of axioms and hypotheses. It seems they support remaking America by going back, way back, to the past they selectively view.

It's not uncommon for the past to be rewritten in support of the truths they hold true, denying that which places doubt on the dogma of the right, and reinventing people such as Senator McCarthy or President Wilson to fit their needs. The movement even has adherents who set out to have high school textbooks rewritten to conform to the new political correctness they embrace.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Teacher salaries range from 49 to 70 thousand a year in Wisconsin.