Wind Farms impact climate.

[Quantum Windbag]

Utility-scale large wind farms are rapidly growing in size and numbers all over the world. Data from a meteorological field campaign show that such wind farms can significantly affect near-surface air temperatures. These effects result from enhanced vertical mixing due to turbulence generated by wind turbine rotors. The impacts of wind farms on local weather can be minimized by changing rotor design or by siting wind farms in regions with high natural turbulence. Using a 25-y-long climate dataset, we identified such regions in the world. Many of these regions, such as the Midwest and Great Plains in the United States, are also rich in wind resources, making them ideal candidates for low-impact wind farms.

Impacts of wind farms on surface air temperatures ? PNAS

Just how green is green?

 

[syrenn]

Utility-scale large wind farms are rapidly growing in size and numbers all over the world. Data from a meteorological field campaign show that such wind farms can significantly affect near-surface air temperatures. These effects result from enhanced vertical mixing due to turbulence generated by wind turbine rotors. The impacts of wind farms on local weather can be minimized by changing rotor design or by siting wind farms in regions with high natural turbulence. Using a 25-y-long climate dataset, we identified such regions in the world. Many of these regions, such as the Midwest and Great Plains in the United States, are also rich in wind resources, making them ideal candidates for low-impact wind farms.

Impacts of wind farms on surface air temperatures ? PNAS

Just how green is green?

I all depends on the mix of yellow and blue. Sorry I couldn't resist.

 

[krotchdog]

The manufacturer of windmills releases more CO2 and pollution in the atmosophere than burning Coal.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Seems like there is just no pleasing some folks... Let's just go back to oil lights at night and give up on this shit.

 

[Old Rocks]

Utility-scale large wind farms are rapidly growing in size and numbers all over the world. Data from a meteorological field campaign show that such wind farms can significantly affect near-surface air temperatures. These effects result from enhanced vertical mixing due to turbulence generated by wind turbine rotors. The impacts of wind farms on local weather can be minimized by changing rotor design or by siting wind farms in regions with high natural turbulence. Using a 25-y-long climate dataset, we identified such regions in the world. Many of these regions, such as the Midwest and Great Plains in the United States, are also rich in wind resources, making them ideal candidates for low-impact wind farms.

Impacts of wind farms on surface air temperatures ? PNAS

Just how green is green?

Just where did you learn reading comprehension? Since when is very localized veritical mixing "climate"? And note that the article stated that the effects could be minimized by rotor design. And in the areas that have the most potential for wind farms, there is already enough natural turbulance that the mills would make no differance.

Wind power is not only here to stay, it will be one of the biggest sources of energy for this nation as we wean off of fossil fuels.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Utility-scale large wind farms are rapidly growing in size and numbers all over the world. Data from a meteorological field campaign show that such wind farms can significantly affect near-surface air temperatures. These effects result from enhanced vertical mixing due to turbulence generated by wind turbine rotors. The impacts of wind farms on local weather can be minimized by changing rotor design or by siting wind farms in regions with high natural turbulence. Using a 25-y-long climate dataset, we identified such regions in the world. Many of these regions, such as the Midwest and Great Plains in the United States, are also rich in wind resources, making them ideal candidates for low-impact wind farms.

Impacts of wind farms on surface air temperatures ? PNAS

Just how green is green?

Just where did you learn reading comprehension? Since when is very localized veritical mixing "climate"? And note that the article stated that the effects could be minimized by rotor design. And in the areas that have the most potential for wind farms, there is already enough natural turbulance that the mills would make no differance.

Wind power is not only here to stay, it will be one of the biggest sources of energy for this nation as we wean off of fossil fuels.

You have a problem with peer reviewed science now that it contradicts your worldview? Why am I not surprised?

All local changes to weather have global consequences. Apparently you are the one with reading comprehension problems. The authors identified some areas where the impact would be minimized, not eliminated. Ant the conjecture about rotor design is purely that, conjecture. Until someone succeeds in building a rotor that is both effective at generating electricity and minimizing air turbulence it is not worth anymore than those solar panels that are 90% efficient you keep talking about.

My point is really simple, but it does require the ability to think, which might be why you missed it.

 

[Old Rocks]

That article hardly contradicts anything I have said concerning wind power. In fact, it states the potential even more strongly than I have.

And just where did it even state local weather was affected? It stated vertical mixing and local surface temperatures. As those in the immediate vicinity of the mill. No statement of local weather affected, no statement of climate affected.
Local affects can be minimized by changing rotor design. Not "might be minimized" but "can be minimized". As you stated, a peer reviewed paper published by the PNAS.

 

[Mr. H.]

Utility-scale large wind farms are rapidly growing in size and numbers all over the world. Data from a meteorological field campaign show that such wind farms can significantly affect near-surface air temperatures. These effects result from enhanced vertical mixing due to turbulence generated by wind turbine rotors. The impacts of wind farms on local weather can be minimized by changing rotor design or by siting wind farms in regions with high natural turbulence. Using a 25-y-long climate dataset, we identified such regions in the world. Many of these regions, such as the Midwest and Great Plains in the United States, are also rich in wind resources, making them ideal candidates for low-impact wind farms.

Impacts of wind farms on surface air temperatures ? PNAS

Just how green is green?

Just where did you learn reading comprehension? Since when is very localized veritical mixing "climate"? And note that the article stated that the effects could be minimized by rotor design. And in the areas that have the most potential for wind farms, there is already enough natural turbulance that the mills would make no differance.

Wind power is not only here to stay, it will be one of the biggest sources of energy for this nation as we wean off of fossil fuels.

So, you admit there are "effects". And regarding fossil fuels, EIA reports indicate, year after year, that hydrocarbons will continue to be the dominant source of energy to 2030 and beyond.

I'm not slamming the importance or contribution of wind or any alternative power source for that matter. But reality and fantasy don't mix in the world of energy economics.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That article hardly contradicts anything I have said concerning wind power. In fact, it states the potential even more strongly than I have.

And just where did it even state local weather was affected? It stated vertical mixing and local surface temperatures. As those in the immediate vicinity of the mill. No statement of local weather affected, no statement of climate affected.
Local affects can be minimized by changing rotor design. Not "might be minimized" but "can be minimized". As you stated, a peer reviewed paper published by the PNAS.

Local temperatures are not weather? When did that happen? Should I call my local meteorologist and inform him that temps are not part of weather?

 

[Old Rocks]

You live under a windmill, numbnuts?

 

[Old Rocks]

Impacts of wind farms on surface air temperatures ? PNAS

Just how green is green?

Just where did you learn reading comprehension? Since when is very localized veritical mixing "climate"? And note that the article stated that the effects could be minimized by rotor design. And in the areas that have the most potential for wind farms, there is already enough natural turbulance that the mills would make no differance.

Wind power is not only here to stay, it will be one of the biggest sources of energy for this nation as we wean off of fossil fuels.

So, you admit there are "effects". And regarding fossil fuels, EIA reports indicate, year after year, that hydrocarbons will continue to be the dominant source of energy to 2030 and beyond.

I'm not slamming the importance or contribution of wind or any alternative power source for that matter. But reality and fantasy don't mix in the world of energy economics.

You are quite correct, and for that our grandchildren will pay the price.

 

[Two Thumbs]

There is nothing out there that liberals support that other liberals are not against.

They wanted clean coal. We got clean coal. Now they protest against it.
They wanted to use natural gas. We drilled for it. Now they are against the drilling. (on land)
They wanted wind power. The Kennedys' stopped a wind farm that was set to "ruin thier view of the beach". It also kills birds and changes migration. So they protest against it.
Solar causes glare, or light poluttion.

Nuclear, out best of all bets. pfft, these goons have been against it so long, they won't look at the benefits, b/c "You can't hug your children with nuclear arms."

 

[editec]

There is NO free lunch.

Everything we do will have some effect on nature.

Wind generation included.

 

[konradv]

The manufacturer of windmills releases more CO2 and pollution in the atmosophere than burning Coal.

Proof? This sounds bogus on the face of it. The statement doesn't make much sense. "Than burning coal" for what?!?! How are windmills manufactured and what produces more CO2 than coal? There seems to be a lot of unexplained facets to the post!

 

[Mr. H.]

Just where did you learn reading comprehension? Since when is very localized veritical mixing "climate"? And note that the article stated that the effects could be minimized by rotor design. And in the areas that have the most potential for wind farms, there is already enough natural turbulance that the mills would make no differance.

Wind power is not only here to stay, it will be one of the biggest sources of energy for this nation as we wean off of fossil fuels.

So, you admit there are "effects". And regarding fossil fuels, EIA reports indicate, year after year, that hydrocarbons will continue to be the dominant source of energy to 2030 and beyond.

I'm not slamming the importance or contribution of wind or any alternative power source for that matter. But reality and fantasy don't mix in the world of energy economics.

You are quite correct, and for that our grandchildren will pay the price.

I think they'll continue to reap rewards the same as humankind has done for the past 150 years, since the advent of the hydrocarbon age. The benefits have been immeasurable.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You live under a windmill, numbnuts?

What a come back, I am at a complete loss for a response.

 

[Middleman]

No matter what we do, we are impacting our environment.

 

[Old Rocks]

There is nothing out there that liberals support that other liberals are not against.

They wanted clean coal. We got clean coal. Now they protest against it.

No, we do not have clean coal. The only operating clean coal plant in existance is in China.

They wanted to use natural gas. We drilled for it. Now they are against the drilling. (on land)

We are against the type of drilling that destroys overlying aquifers, you know, the place people get their drinking water.

They wanted wind power. The Kennedys' stopped a wind farm that was set to "ruin thier view of the beach". It also kills birds and changes migration. So they protest against it.

The Kennedy's have a bad and improper case of the NIMBYs. The bird and bat kills are an engineering problem that must be addressed.

Solar causes glare, or light poluttion.

Really? That is a totally new one on me. Care to provide some links?

Nuclear, out best of all bets. pfft, these goons have been against it so long, they won't look at the benefits, b/c "You can't hug your children with nuclear arms."

Nuclear's big problem is cost. Way more than about anything else.

Comparative electrical generation costs - SourceWatch

Coal:

Coal Supercritical: 10.554
Coal Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC): 11.481
Coal IGCC with Carbon Capture & Storage (IGCC with CCS): 17.317
Alternatives:

Biogas: 8.552
Wind: 8.910
Gas Combined Cycle: 9.382 (assumes $5.50 to $6.50/MMBtu for gas)
Geothermal: 10.182
Hydroelectric: 10.527
Concentrating solar thermal (CSP): 12.653
Nuclear: 15.316
Biomass: 16.485

 

[Two Thumbs]

There is nothing out there that liberals support that other liberals are not against.

They wanted clean coal. We got clean coal. Now they protest against it.

No, we do not have clean coal. The only operating clean coal plant in existance is in China.

They wanted to use natural gas. We drilled for it. Now they are against the drilling. (on land)

We are against the type of drilling that destroys overlying aquifers, you know, the place people get their drinking water.

They wanted wind power. The Kennedys' stopped a wind farm that was set to "ruin thier view of the beach". It also kills birds and changes migration. So they protest against it.

The Kennedy's have a bad and improper case of the NIMBYs. The bird and bat kills are an engineering problem that must be addressed.

Solar causes glare, or light poluttion.

Really? That is a totally new one on me. Care to provide some links?

Nuclear, out best of all bets. pfft, these goons have been against it so long, they won't look at the benefits, b/c "You can't hug your children with nuclear arms."

Nuclear's big problem is cost. Way more than about anything else.

Comparative electrical generation costs - SourceWatch

Coal:

Coal Supercritical: 10.554
Coal Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC): 11.481
Coal IGCC with Carbon Capture & Storage (IGCC with CCS): 17.317
Alternatives:

Biogas: 8.552
Wind: 8.910
Gas Combined Cycle: 9.382 (assumes $5.50 to $6.50/MMBtu for gas)
Geothermal: 10.182
Hydroelectric: 10.527
Concentrating solar thermal (CSP): 12.653
Nuclear: 15.316
Biomass: 16.485

According to this one

Fuel Cost Comparison Chart

Wheat straw is the best bet. Shame that's food for fuel though.

This is the best link I found with the most things listed;

Energy Cost comparison

The solar glare thing, that came from a very liberal friend of mine, she also complained at home much area was needed to use things like solar, wave and wind, etc...

I think, even with the higher cost, nuclear is the best bet. One plant can supply a very, very large area. Last I heard, on TV, one windmill can only power around 300 homes.

 

[loosecannon]

Utility-scale large wind farms are rapidly growing in size and numbers all over the world. Data from a meteorological field campaign show that such wind farms can significantly affect near-surface air temperatures. These effects result from enhanced vertical mixing due to turbulence generated by wind turbine rotors. The impacts of wind farms on local weather can be minimized by changing rotor design or by siting wind farms in regions with high natural turbulence. Using a 25-y-long climate dataset, we identified such regions in the world. Many of these regions, such as the Midwest and Great Plains in the United States, are also rich in wind resources, making them ideal candidates for low-impact wind farms.

Impacts of wind farms on surface air temperatures ? PNAS

Just how green is green?

wind farms require non turbulent air, or what is called laminar air flow. That said I think this surface temp effect must be minimal as wind itself does the same thing.

But the dominant designs are improving as developers realize that high torque, slow speed turbines are far more efficient and last longer with much lower potentials for dynamic instability. And will be capable of capitalizing on much slower wind speeds.