Wilders banned from Britain. Do you agree?

[tigerbob]

Dutch MP Geert Wilders was recently invited to the UK to show his film, Fitna, to the House of Lords. As some of you may be aware, Fitna is a highly provocative film that links the Koran to terrorism. Mr Wilders describes the Koran as a "fascist book" and has called for it to be banned.

However, the British Home Office has told him that he will not be allowed to enter the country on security grounds. The peer that invited him, Lord Pearson, has said that he disagrees with the call to ban the book, but that not allowing Mr. Wilders into the country is "appeasing violent Islam".

BBC NEWS | Politics | Dutch MP banned from entering UK

Interestingly, the Dutch Government has protested about one of its MPs being banned from Britain, yet at the same time Mr. Wilders faces prosecution by the Dutch Government for inciting hatred.

Here is a link to the Wiki page about Fitna...

Fitna (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...and below is the film itself. The full film is about 5 minutes longer but the last minutes deal with Dutch issues so for the sake of brevity I've used this shorter version.

Before you view the film, can I point out 3 things.

1. Every Muslim that I know is appalled at what violent Islam calls for.
2. Certain verses of the Koran do appear to be calling Muslims to persecute 'infidels', but there is plenty of inflammatory language in the Old Testament as well.
3. This film shows Eugene Armstrong being beheaded. It will be clear when this moment is coming. I had to close my eyes, but the audio is still disturbing.

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QcDD6-7AN4U&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QcDD6-7AN4U&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Simple question: Is the banning of Geert Wilders reasonable given that his film was clearly meant to shock, or is it an appalling restriction of freedom in a supposedly democratic country?

It would be nice if (for a change) people could restrict themselves to reasoned argument rather than just name calling. There is so little on this board that doesn't descend into name calling (right vs left, west vs. east, muslim vs non muslim) by the end of the first page, or even in many cases in the OP. The more it happens, the less I want to visit.

Sorry - I'm venting. It's a message board so of course you can all say what you like.

 

[Sunni Man]

I found the film to be rather silly.

Most Muslims thought it was more idiotic than inflammatory.

There was very little demostrations over the film. It was basically a big yawn.

Wilders just wanted to make a name for himself and make alot of money.

I think it has backfired on him on both accounts.

 

[tigerbob]

I found the film to be rather silly.

Most Muslims thought it was more idiotic than inflammatory.

There was very little demostrations over the film. It was basically a big yawn.

Wilders just wanted to make a name for himself and make alot of money.

I think it has backfired on him on both accounts.

Should he be banned from entering Britain?

 

[Article 15]

If they are lucky Tar Valon will take them in.

Huh?

 

[PoliticalChic]

No he shouldn't be banned. Apparently those countries do not have freedom of speech.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.

BTW, Mark Steyn, Canadian author and political commentator has been summoned to appear in front of two Canadian judicial panels for his comments on Islam.

CANADA&#39;S THOUGHT POLICE - New York Post

 

[GHook93]

NO! Many so called Muslim scholars preach a heck of a lot worse. Watch Fitna, there is not much untruth about it. Since when can the truth be defamatory?

Also why was the Ali Larjani, the Iranian Parliament leader not booted from Germany when he speaks? He stated clearly without an room for error that the Holocaust didn't happen and he did it while in Germany! No one cried foul and he was not kicked out.

Typical where Eurabia is going. Let the Islamist and leftist lunatics say whatever they want and then silence the dissent! Funny the leftist allie themselves with the Islamist, since the Islamist are pretty much against everything the leftist stand for (except for their blind anti-semitism and there devotion to protecting the rights of Muslims and no one else). The lefitst mental midget are basically being used by the Islamist. See in 25 years where Eurabia will be. With immigration from primarily Arab, Muslim North African and Muslim Asia countries and high birth rates of Muslims vs the low birth rates of White Europeans, places like France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Beligium and the UK could have anywhere from 40-55% Muslim minority/majority. Russia to which already has what 25% Muslim minority. France and Spain are almost assured to have a Muslim majority in 25 years!

 

[tigerbob]

Also why was the Ali Larjani, the Iranian Parliament leader not booted from Germany? He stated clearly without an room for error that the Holocaust didn't happen!

It depends on the prevailing political climate at the time. Many countries allow things that other countries find objectionable, and vice versa. Even America.

 

[tigerbob]

Wilders just got turned back at Heathrow immigration. He's not the only one this has happened to...

BBC NEWS | UK | Who are people barred from Britain?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wilders just got turned back at Heathrow immigration. He's not the only one this has happened to...

BBC NEWS | UK | Who are people barred from Britain?

tigerbob, what has been the sentiment of people who you know back in England? Do they agree with the UK's stance on this?

 

[Diuretic]

Risk management. The bloke is a shit stirrer so the Brits are perfectly within their rights to refuse to let him enter. It isn't a free speech issue, he can spout off as much as he likes...in the Netherlands.

 

[AllieBaba]

So they want to ban this book...but they won't prevent mullahs from preaching death and destruction to gentiles and western civilization in general...and I'll bet they didn't ban Al Gore's b.s. film or any of Michael Moore's fabricated loon fests.

Nah, the left is and always has been about protecting freedom of speech, alright....

 

[xsited1]

Of course he should be banned from entering Britain. The Brits have completely embraced the Islamic way of life and will most likely become a Muslim country one day. They obviously like Muslims and Islamic Law. Since this is the path they've chosen, they might as well go all the way.

BBC NEWS | UK | Mohammed enters top boys' names

BBC NEWS | UK | Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

 

[Sunni Man]

Of course he should be banned from entering Britain. The Brits have completely embraced the Islamic way of life and will most likely become a Muslim country one day. They obviously like Muslims and Islamic Law. Since this is the path they've chosen, they might as well go all the way.

BBC NEWS | UK | Mohammed enters top boys' names

BBC NEWS | UK | Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Whether you are being sarcastic or not.

Your statement is very true

 

[tigerbob]

Wilders just got turned back at Heathrow immigration. He's not the only one this has happened to...

BBC NEWS | UK | Who are people barred from Britain?

tigerbob, what has been the sentiment of people who you know back in England? Do they agree with the UK's stance on this?

Nope, at least the people I know. They think he should be allowed in and that it's ridiculous that in a democracy someone can be excluded for this sort of thing.

That said, most of my friends agree that banning certain clerics is a good thing. I guess we can't have it both ways, though I personally draw a significant distinction between what is shown in this film and certain clerics to are encouraging suicide bombers. However, it's a distinction I would find hard to put into words.

 

[tigerbob]

Of course he should be banned from entering Britain. The Brits have completely embraced the Islamic way of life and will most likely become a Muslim country one day. They obviously like Muslims and Islamic Law. Since this is the path they've chosen, they might as well go all the way.

BBC NEWS | UK | Mohammed enters top boys' names

BBC NEWS | UK | Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Whether you are being sarcastic or not.

Your statement is very true

Bollocks.

 

[roomy]

There are many thousands of Muslims that should be banned before him.

 

[MeInUSA]

Hi,

I'm new here and probably shouldn't have started out on such a conversial issue, but here it goes. I think if European countries do not stop doing things like this, they're going to see a whole lot more violence from their Muslim populations. The way I have seen it, the more you appease, the worse the radicals become. I've even read articles from interviews with radical Muslims in Sweden, making fun of the Swedens because they're so appeasing, making it very easy for them to rob them.

Wasn't this what printing the Islamic cartoons was all about? Because many journalists felt they couldn't say anything against Islam or even Muslim terrorists/extremists. Some European countries won't even call them terrorists any longer and they call them militants. From my research, I found that the more appeasing the Europeans are, the more violence they see from their Muslim populations. It begins with Sweden, some of the most tolerant people in the world, and more appeasing towards their Muslim population, is having a whole lot of prolems. Muslim terrorists/extremists have taken over Sweden's 3rd largest country and the Swedes are moving out of their country "in droves" because of some of their Muslim populations being so violent according to one Swedish newspaper.

Britain seems to be one of the more harsher countries on appeasing their radical Muslims, but some things like this just blows my mind. This appeasing seems to be coming more from some of Britain's leaders than the British population itself. Of course I may be wrong about that because I do not live there. Brits do not seem to be very high-strung people, but I don't think it will take much more for them to start protesting in large numbers about things such as this. I think some of them feel like it doesn't matter what they do because it's too late and they're doomed to become a Muslim country. I think they're wrong about that and it isn't too late to save Britain. I read in some newspaper...can't recall now which one it was...that more Europeans are moving from their countries today than in any other time in history. I know that in the last couple of years I see a whole lot more Brits on our commercials/TV shows than ever before. Anyone else noticed this?

Trying not to be too long-winded, I'll stop now. These are just my opinions from my observations and, of course, I could be wrong. So, someone please correct me if they think I am wrong.

 

[WilliamC]

Your wrong!

The UK has enough home grown extremists without importing any more. irrespective of where they originate. You only have to look at the running saga over an american muslim extremist (Nation of Islam) who was blocked from entering the country for many years, my apologies his name slips my mind at present.

The UK has also supported and protected Ahmed Salman Rushdie authors of "Satanic Verses" and recently knighted him in recognition of his contribution to literature. All this for an individual who has had a fatwa pronounced against him by Islamic clerics and is living under threat of assassination. If you add the presence of British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan I would propose that this is hardly the act of an appeasing government.

As for Mohammed being the most popular boys name, if you consider the variation in names used in western society and the dearth of variety amongst muslims where calling your son after the profit is the done thing, its not surprising.

We must also remember that immigration into the UK is predominately from those countries which were once part of the British Empire and which are members of the commonwealth, of these immigrants a significant number are muslims. We should however put this in context UK: Total population: 58.8 million UK Muslim population: 1.6 million (2.8%)

As for Brits on American TV, have you had a good look at the quality and content, you need all the help you can get.

P.S. Sorry about Simon Cowell

 

[Diuretic]

Didn't the Brits just decide to boot out a radical Jordanian preacher?

Home Office wins Abu Qatada appeal - Yahoo! News UK

 

[elvis]

Also why was the Ali Larjani, the Iranian Parliament leader not booted from Germany? He stated clearly without an room for error that the Holocaust didn't happen!

It depends on the prevailing political climate at the time. Many countries allow things that other countries find objectionable, and vice versa. Even America.

That's true. Try distributing Mein Kampf in Europe.