Why the U.S. should break up into 5 Countries.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Austin83, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. Austin83
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    Austin83 Rookie

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    Hey everyone, long time reader but first time poster on here. Glad to join you all on this board regarding political discussion. I consider myself a rarity nowadays, a fiscal conservative and a social liberal (you could say Libertarian but I don't like going that far, they believe in no government regulation and that I don't agree with). I would like to offer a honest unbiased opinion on why I believe the U.S. needs to start looking at a peaceful break up into 5 Sovereign Countries that can work together in a similar setup to the European Union (E.U.).

    I think there is no doubt that we all see it, this country is becoming more and more divided every day. Not too long ago we had 2 major political parties that, while they had different viewpoints, could compromise on issues and generally find the best solution of the country. As we have seen in the last few years though, both the Republican and Democratic Parties have been hijacked by fringe factions within their own groups. For Republicans that is the Tea Party/Sean Hannity/Sarah Palin group that are very far right on Social Issues and honestly worry about Social Issues more than what is really necessary. For Democrats you have the Occupy Group/Union Officials/President Obama/Nancy Pelosi group that truly want what they consider a utopian society, one where everyone is equal and receive the same thing. It is widely believed that they want the United States to have more of a Socialism element which most Americans on both sides are widely against.

    As we have seen the two sides go farther and farther apart, our Government (and therefore us, the citizens) have suffered. Congress has become increasingly divided and inefficient, to the point now where Congress is largely unable to pass anything of consequence. Our Government has become crippled with anger and division and no longer has the ability to truly serve the will of the people. The system has become corrupted and the people no longer believe in the system to do what is best for the country. Even worse, we have developed a sizable portion of our population who do not care about the health of the country but their own self interests. This is on both sides, on the right you have the ultra rich that could care less about the majority of the country as long as they get their tax breaks. They will vote for whoever gives them the most tax loopholes. On the left you have the entitlement crowd (not all but some) that believe that someone else should pay for their lifestyle. They will vote for whoever will give them the most amount of freebies. In the middle is most Americans, and it is the middle who is suffering.

    Lets look at the U.S. right now like we would a failing marriage. There are 2 options for a couple of a failing marriage. 1) You can either not deal with the issue, eventually have the situation blow up to the point where divorce is inevitable, the divorce is messy and filled with anger, and the 2 sides hate each other. 2) You can admit the marriage is failing, have a fairly drama free divorce where both sides work with each other to make the situation good for each of them, and in the end can maybe still be friends post-divorce. Which option seems better to you? The U.S. is in this same situation right now. If you don't believe me, look at this link, this is going to start happening more and more as both the right and left further entrench their positions. The two sides simply are unable to work with each other.

    video.foxnews.com/v/2031772903001

    I don't post the following link because I like Fox News, I could care less. I simply post the link because you are going to see more of this. Once communication has broken down the fighting will begin and it's already beginning.

    Instead of the U.S. just barely limping along (which it is right now and it's not sustainable) why don't we just agree to a divorce? Just like it is possible to fall out of love it is possible for a Government and Country setup to no longer work. The fact is a Civil War is coming regardless, we can either break up the country now and prevent that or we can go into Civil War and thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives will be lost and the U.S. Government will once again have blood on its hands. Why not prevent that and just do the following:

    1) The U.S. would break up into the 5 Sovereign Countries:
    - The Northeast States of America - New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland.
    - The Southeast States of America - Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas.
    - The Midwest States of America - Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Missouri, Minnesota, Iowa.
    - The Mountain West States of America - North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Nevada, Texas, Oklahoma.
    - The West Coast States of America - California, Oregon, Washington.

    Hawaii can become their own independent nation again like they have always wanted and Alaska could be annexed into Canada which is where it should be in the first place.

    The setup could be very similar to the European Union. All 5 Countries would still use the American Dollar (formerly the U.S. dollar) as the countries currency. All 5 Countries could still work together for issues of National Defense. All 5 Countries could easily be setup to where you could freely travel from one country to another just like you would states now (no border, no customs, no passport required). All 5 Countries would have preferred trade status so business between the countries would not be significantly affected. So for the average American there wouldn't be much of a change.

    What this would do though is allow each of the individual regions to adapt fiscal and social policies that have a greater reflection on that countries' population and beliefs. Here is how it would probably go:

    - The Northeast States of America - Separation of Church and State, High Taxes with High Entitlements, Single Payer System Healthcare, Strong Unions, Wealth Tax, Drugs still illegal except for medical reasons, Abortion legal but restricted, etc..
    - The Southeast States of America - Christianity would be the official religion with social policies reflecting that. Low Taxes with Few Entitlements, Privatized Healthcare primarily through citizens job, Right to Work, Drugs completely illegal, Abortion illegal except in cases of the mother's health, incest, or rape, etc.
    - The Midwest States of America - Separation of Church and State but in a less strict manner. Low Taxes with Few Entitlements, a mix of private and public healthcare options, Strong Unions, Drugs still illegal except for medical reasons, Abortion legal but restricted.
    - The Mountain West States of America - Very much a Libertarian style government. Very limited government regulation on many issues. Very Low Taxes with No Entitlements (you are on your own type atmosphere). Privatized healthcare, Right to Work, Drugs completely legal, Abortion illegal except in cases of the mother's health, incest, or rape, etc.
    - The West Coast States of America - Very much a Socialism style government. Very High Taxes with High Entitlements. Rich are taxed increasingly high with the goal being equality for all. Religion severely restricted, mainly to individual homes (no churches even allowed). Single payer healthcare system. Strong Unions. Drugs completely legal, Abortion legal and available on demand.

    I know there will be some criticism of this very idea but I ask you to throw away all your preconceived notions and truly think for at least 10 minutes and ask yourself this question. Would the U.S. be better off being 5 Sovereign Nations that work together? Is the U.S. in its current shape really better than this alternative? I look forward to hearing your responses.
     
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  2. SniperFire
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    SniperFire Senior Member

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    Such discussions are the sad result of the Democrat race and class warfare.
     
  3. Moonglow
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    Moonglow Diamond Member

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    such talk is silly and will never happen. When in the US has everybody been the same race, gender, nationality or in agreement?
     
  4. Austin83
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    Austin83 Rookie

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    Also, as a continuation to the proposal (I forgot to mention this in the original post) there would a 5 year transition period of going from the U.S. to these Sovereign Countries. I think the good thing about my proposal is that most of the policies that would be enacted in the Sovereign Countries would reflect their population so most people would not have to move.

    With that said, a 5 year transition period would let people move to whatever country they are going to want to be in and would give each Sovereign Country time to hold elections, set up their system of government, and ensure a smooth transition.
     
  5. tjvh
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    tjvh Senior Member

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    We don't need to break up, we need people to ante up instead of living off the hard work of others.
     
  6. Austin83
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    Austin83 Rookie

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    Sniperfire and Moonglow neither one of you answered the question I posed though. This is all hypothetical, sadly it will not happen this way. Realistically the country will go into Civil War, thousands if not hundred of thousands will die, the Federal Government will collapse, and the U.S. will break into different Sovereign Countries that will sadly dislike each other.

    My question though is why would my proposal be a bad idea? Why should my proposal NOT be considered? I think it's the best solution to our countries problems. If you don't like my solution what are your solutions? And don't say get the parties to work together, we all know that is never going to happen. If anything the two sides are becoming more entrenched and the Federal Government will become even more crippled. So if not my solution what is yours?
     
  7. Austin83
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    Austin83 Rookie

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    And how do you plan on convincing the Entitlement Crowd (who like being on entitlements, not the ones who are trying to get off them) that they should work for their paycheck instead of just sitting on the couch? With my job I have to work with a lot of the Entitlement Crowd and I just don't see how they will ever be motivated to get off the Entitlements and actually work for a living.
     
  8. WillowTree
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    WillowTree Diamond Member

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    Talk to old rocks. it's a relatively new phenonomen in democrap camps.
     
  9. tjvh
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    tjvh Senior Member

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    Hit them in their wallets.
     
  10. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Here's a crazy idea. Why don't we become break up sovereignty even more. Say over 50 Countries, or as the rest of the world refers to their countries, we could call them States.

    And then say, we create a covenant between the 50 states, creating a federal government of states. You know, as a way to unite for common defense and to allow interestate trade without much difficulty. We could provide this federal government with limited powers and jurisdiction and write up a document called a Constitution to make it clear what the Federal Government can and cannot do and then leave whatever powers we don't explicitly give the Federal Government to the people and the States.

    And here is the most radical of all the ideas, We actually apply that Constitution and live by it. We encourage States to experiment on what works and what does. We decentralize power into the hands of local governments and individuals. And by doing so eliminate all this corruption currently occuring.

    I know it's a crazy idea. Being a nation of States. Completely radical.
     

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