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Exactly, donate to a charity and pay for it. But that isn't what you're proposing, you're proposing government do it for you. I like how when liberals want government to pay for your shit, you say you are paying for someone else's as if your greed is somehow altruistic.
Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world
Not sure about you, but I pay taxes. I've worked full time since the age of 18, had my own health insurance continiously and been fortunate enough not to ever NEED "freebies" as you like to call them. As such, I have a say in what I want those taxes to pay for and one of the things I think is important is birth control. You can call that "greed" if you want, but I would rather my taxes go to that then to subsidizing other things such as agricorps, big pharma, etc. as "your world" is prone to desire.
Um ... where do you get that is a choice?
Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"
You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.
No, it isn't.
Since the feds started interfering with the sexual development and fertility of our youths, stds and teen pregnancy costs have SKYROCKETED. So stop with the stupid, repetitive and false lie that "FEDERAL FUNDING OF BIRTH CONTROL SAVES US MONEY!" There's absolutely no support for that statement, and quite a bit of support for just the opposite.
I've offered up support - from a variety of sources - that free birth control to teens has reduced teen pregnancy rates AND abortion rates. You can choose to ignore it, but thus far you've only offered up one source in opposition and no real data.
I'll tell you what. I will do that, but I want to know what you are going to do about it if I do first. Are you going to blow it off and say whatever? Or are you going to say wow, that is a huge problem with Canadian healthcare then? Or something else? SpecifyDo some reading on the subject and the time it takes in Canada to get healthcare
Show me that there is a correlation between the two with some hard data.
You need proof there is a correlation between the time it takes to see a doctor and heart and cancer death rates? Seriously?
Prove your claims. Death and disease rates are influenced by a number of different factors - genetics, access to health care, preventative care, life style, smoking, diet, etc etc. You didn't know this? Seriously?
Tell you what - let's both do it and see what we come up with?
First of all, I'm not an anarchist, simpleton. I've made clear my standard is opposition to redistribution of wealth. You have to know that in all the years you've read my posts. Too many concussions from your head hitting the headboard from guys too cheap to pay for your birth control? If you're not going to be serious, don't ask me to be.
What is a small government libertarian?
The other small government libertarians pretty well agreed with what I said. Do you really need this explained to you ... again? You have to keep using disingenuous arguments? I guess that's a reflection of the lack of bullets in your intellectual gun.
Again, why won't you donate your OWN money to support charities you believe in? Note the difference between us. I'm saying I will donate to planned parenthood if they get off the public dole. You're saying if government doesn't fund them, you believe they will go under. Obviously you know liberals just won't give their own money voluntarily. I guess there's at least a grain of truth in that admission
Note another difference between us. I don't say "I will" but "I do" donate to charities that I feel important. It's not conditional on whether or not they receive public money but on whether they do a good job with the moneys they get.
And you keep contradicting that by claiming that if government doesn't confiscate money and buy it for them then they won't get it. Think about that. But don't hurt yourself, you're not used to it
You don't get it. I don't object to paying taxes.
You also ignore the studies that have shown that providing free birth control has REDUCED teen pregnancy and abortion rates. Now...maybe you can show me some studies where private individuals have provided free birth control to a community and reduced their teen pregnancy rates. If so, I'll entertain your concept. If not, then I'll assume you're spewing another unsupported claim.
How generous of you. You think taxpayers should pay for your cause rather than you paying it out of your wallet. And I called you a skin flint. Nailed it!
And again you repeat that if government doesn't pay for it, you don't believe liberals will make sure their objectives are met. If people aren't willing to pay for it with choice, then it shouldn't happen. So since you say you do donate, is it the other liberals following up with donating to their own causes you don't believe will happen?
You nailed nothing. Skinflint.
You don't want to pay for it. Period.
Not sure about you, but I pay taxes. I've worked full time since the age of 18, had my own health insurance continiously and been fortunate enough not to ever NEED "freebies" as you like to call them. As such, I have a say in what I want those taxes to pay for and one of the things I think is important is birth control. You can call that "greed" if you want, but I would rather my taxes go to that then to subsidizing other things such as agricorps, big pharma, etc. as "your world" is prone to desire.
Um ... where do you get that is a choice?
Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"
You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.
No, it isn't.
Since the feds started interfering with the sexual development and fertility of our youths, stds and teen pregnancy costs have SKYROCKETED. So stop with the stupid, repetitive and false lie that "FEDERAL FUNDING OF BIRTH CONTROL SAVES US MONEY!" There's absolutely no support for that statement, and quite a bit of support for just the opposite.
I've offered up support - from a variety of sources - that free birth control to teens has reduced teen pregnancy rates AND abortion rates. You can choose to ignore it, but thus far you've only offered up one source in opposition and no real data.
Except that doesn't support what you are saying. FEDERALLY funded birth control does NOT reduce any costs whatever. THAT is what we're talking about. You continue to argue to a false narrative..i.e., that unless the feds pay for it, it won't be available..
Note another difference between us. I don't say "I will" but "I do" donate to charities that I feel important. It's not conditional on whether or not they receive public money but on whether they do a good job with the moneys they get.
And you keep contradicting that by claiming that if government doesn't confiscate money and buy it for them then they won't get it. Think about that. But don't hurt yourself, you're not used to it
You don't get it. I don't object to paying taxes.
You also ignore the studies that have shown that providing free birth control has REDUCED teen pregnancy and abortion rates. Now...maybe you can show me some studies where private individuals have provided free birth control to a community and reduced their teen pregnancy rates. If so, I'll entertain your concept. If not, then I'll assume you're spewing another unsupported claim.
How generous of you. You think taxpayers should pay for your cause rather than you paying it out of your wallet. And I called you a skin flint. Nailed it!
And again you repeat that if government doesn't pay for it, you don't believe liberals will make sure their objectives are met. If people aren't willing to pay for it with choice, then it shouldn't happen. So since you say you do donate, is it the other liberals following up with donating to their own causes you don't believe will happen?
You nailed nothing. Skinflint.
You don't want to pay for it. Period.
You're the one who says you don't want to pay for it, you want taxpayers to, then you claim you can read my mind. Gotcha.
If taxpayers pay for it, that means the top 20% will pay 80% of it like everything else. That clearly does not include you. You're a skin flint, guilty as charged
If you don't provide birth control, you end up paying for education or incarceration for these kids that are born. So I do pay even if I don't pay for birth control. Just under Birth Control I pay less.It's not an either or proposition though. You will still be paying for the bad choices anyway, in addition to birth control...Generally speaking, I agree I don't want to pay for other people's choices. The problem here is that I'm going to pay either way, either in the minimal cost of birth control or in the schooling or incarceration of the kid. One is very much cheaper than the other, so I'm going with the cheap one.In my view, when a woman uses birth control she is not engaging in the same behavior that got her pregnant, she is altering it by taking responsibility. And that means using birth control.
In my view, birth control is nothing but a way for a woman to escape that responsibility.
As soon as the cell in that zygote begins to divide, that is human life. When a woman starts using birth control, she is ending that life. That is the ultimate abandonment of responsibility. And in my view, an act of murder.
That is a pretty darn strong statement and one that places it all at the feet of the woman.
The pill acts, primarily to prevent pregnancy and secondarily to prevent implantation by keeping the womb hostile through the use of natural hormones. We're not incubators for potential life. Most fertalized eggs never even make it that far. Add to that the fact that many married couples also use birth control for family planning - is she escaping responsibility because she doesn't want go through ten or twelve pregnancies? Should a married couple be expected to practice abstinance?
What the fuck? Places at the "feet of women?" Fuck your brains out, spread your legs, get VD, get pregnant, what ever the fuck you want. Just do it on your own dime. What is possibly unclear about that?
That's pure economics here. The only way to 100% avoid paying for unwanted pregnancies as a citizen is to either completely stop funding education via tax money, as well as jails, or to pay for birth control. And dollar for dollar, the birth control is far cheaper.
And you keep contradicting that by claiming that if government doesn't confiscate money and buy it for them then they won't get it. Think about that. But don't hurt yourself, you're not used to it
You don't get it. I don't object to paying taxes.
You also ignore the studies that have shown that providing free birth control has REDUCED teen pregnancy and abortion rates. Now...maybe you can show me some studies where private individuals have provided free birth control to a community and reduced their teen pregnancy rates. If so, I'll entertain your concept. If not, then I'll assume you're spewing another unsupported claim.
How generous of you. You think taxpayers should pay for your cause rather than you paying it out of your wallet. And I called you a skin flint. Nailed it!
And again you repeat that if government doesn't pay for it, you don't believe liberals will make sure their objectives are met. If people aren't willing to pay for it with choice, then it shouldn't happen. So since you say you do donate, is it the other liberals following up with donating to their own causes you don't believe will happen?
You nailed nothing. Skinflint.
You don't want to pay for it. Period.
You're the one who says you don't want to pay for it, you want taxpayers to, then you claim you can read my mind. Gotcha.
If taxpayers pay for it, that means the top 20% will pay 80% of it like everything else. That clearly does not include you. You're a skin flint, guilty as charged
No. I never said that.
If taxpayers pay for it - I AM paying for it. I also give money to charities and PP. Private and public funding.
Do you get it yet? Or does it need to be dumbed down further?
If you don't provide birth control, you end up paying for education or incarceration for these kids that are born. So I do pay even if I don't pay for birth control. Just under Birth Control I pay less.It's not an either or proposition though. You will still be paying for the bad choices anyway, in addition to birth control...Generally speaking, I agree I don't want to pay for other people's choices. The problem here is that I'm going to pay either way, either in the minimal cost of birth control or in the schooling or incarceration of the kid. One is very much cheaper than the other, so I'm going with the cheap one.In my view, birth control is nothing but a way for a woman to escape that responsibility.
As soon as the cell in that zygote begins to divide, that is human life. When a woman starts using birth control, she is ending that life. That is the ultimate abandonment of responsibility. And in my view, an act of murder.
That is a pretty darn strong statement and one that places it all at the feet of the woman.
The pill acts, primarily to prevent pregnancy and secondarily to prevent implantation by keeping the womb hostile through the use of natural hormones. We're not incubators for potential life. Most fertalized eggs never even make it that far. Add to that the fact that many married couples also use birth control for family planning - is she escaping responsibility because she doesn't want go through ten or twelve pregnancies? Should a married couple be expected to practice abstinance?
What the fuck? Places at the "feet of women?" Fuck your brains out, spread your legs, get VD, get pregnant, what ever the fuck you want. Just do it on your own dime. What is possibly unclear about that?
That's pure economics here. The only way to 100% avoid paying for unwanted pregnancies as a citizen is to either completely stop funding education via tax money, as well as jails, or to pay for birth control. And dollar for dollar, the birth control is far cheaper.
If as a taxpayer I pay for birth control I still pay. I'm paying for birth control and the occasional failure of the birth control, as well as STD costs I'd have paid for with or without birth control. I'm just paying less. This isn't a tough situation to model out mathematically. Any sensible person realizes the cheaper option is to pay for the birth control.
I'll tell you what. I will do that, but I want to know what you are going to do about it if I do first. Are you going to blow it off and say whatever? Or are you going to say wow, that is a huge problem with Canadian healthcare then? Or something else? SpecifyShow me that there is a correlation between the two with some hard data.
You need proof there is a correlation between the time it takes to see a doctor and heart and cancer death rates? Seriously?
Prove your claims. Death and disease rates are influenced by a number of different factors - genetics, access to health care, preventative care, life style, smoking, diet, etc etc. You didn't know this? Seriously?
Tell you what - let's both do it and see what we come up with?
http://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care
More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds
After 97 pages of this crap, WHO is exactly being accused of being against Birth Control and what is the specific evidence to back this claim?
You don't get it. I don't object to paying taxes.
You also ignore the studies that have shown that providing free birth control has REDUCED teen pregnancy and abortion rates. Now...maybe you can show me some studies where private individuals have provided free birth control to a community and reduced their teen pregnancy rates. If so, I'll entertain your concept. If not, then I'll assume you're spewing another unsupported claim.
How generous of you. You think taxpayers should pay for your cause rather than you paying it out of your wallet. And I called you a skin flint. Nailed it!
And again you repeat that if government doesn't pay for it, you don't believe liberals will make sure their objectives are met. If people aren't willing to pay for it with choice, then it shouldn't happen. So since you say you do donate, is it the other liberals following up with donating to their own causes you don't believe will happen?
You nailed nothing. Skinflint.
You don't want to pay for it. Period.
You're the one who says you don't want to pay for it, you want taxpayers to, then you claim you can read my mind. Gotcha.
If taxpayers pay for it, that means the top 20% will pay 80% of it like everything else. That clearly does not include you. You're a skin flint, guilty as charged
No. I never said that.
If taxpayers pay for it - I AM paying for it. I also give money to charities and PP. Private and public funding.
Do you get it yet? Or does it need to be dumbed down further?
If taxpayers pay for it, you're paying for almost none of it. What gives you the moral right to force everyone to pay for the causes you support? Pay for your own damn charity. Charity is not a feat that can be performed with other people's money
Um ... where do you get that is a choice?
Now what about addressing my point? "Seriously, the only way you can think of paying for birth control is to hand it off to government. Personal responsibility and charity from your own pocket just aren't part of your world"
You know nothing about "my world". Shall we assume "your world" is all about greed and personal entitlement? You have to pay taxes. If you feel our taxes shouldn't be paying for that - fine. We disagree on that. I feel our taxes SHOULD because the cost of not preventing teen pregnancy is so much higher.
No, it isn't.
Since the feds started interfering with the sexual development and fertility of our youths, stds and teen pregnancy costs have SKYROCKETED. So stop with the stupid, repetitive and false lie that "FEDERAL FUNDING OF BIRTH CONTROL SAVES US MONEY!" There's absolutely no support for that statement, and quite a bit of support for just the opposite.
I've offered up support - from a variety of sources - that free birth control to teens has reduced teen pregnancy rates AND abortion rates. You can choose to ignore it, but thus far you've only offered up one source in opposition and no real data.
Except that doesn't support what you are saying. FEDERALLY funded birth control does NOT reduce any costs whatever. THAT is what we're talking about. You continue to argue to a false narrative..i.e., that unless the feds pay for it, it won't be available..
In the sources I gave - birth control was offered for free - paid for by the state or municipality. I don't see what difference it makes whether it's federally paid for or state paid for - it's not privately paid for and it DOES reduce teen pregnancy rates.
Actually, I am not arguing charity=government. The issue is as a tax payer there are certain things that I pay for that are provided to any child born in the USA. Even if you toss out of the conversation entitlements, at the bare minimum it's education, and in the event of wrong doing, incarceration. I'd just rather use my tax money more efficiently and birth control is a way to do that.If you don't provide birth control, you end up paying for education or incarceration for these kids that are born. So I do pay even if I don't pay for birth control. Just under Birth Control I pay less.It's not an either or proposition though. You will still be paying for the bad choices anyway, in addition to birth control...Generally speaking, I agree I don't want to pay for other people's choices. The problem here is that I'm going to pay either way, either in the minimal cost of birth control or in the schooling or incarceration of the kid. One is very much cheaper than the other, so I'm going with the cheap one.That is a pretty darn strong statement and one that places it all at the feet of the woman.
The pill acts, primarily to prevent pregnancy and secondarily to prevent implantation by keeping the womb hostile through the use of natural hormones. We're not incubators for potential life. Most fertalized eggs never even make it that far. Add to that the fact that many married couples also use birth control for family planning - is she escaping responsibility because she doesn't want go through ten or twelve pregnancies? Should a married couple be expected to practice abstinance?
What the fuck? Places at the "feet of women?" Fuck your brains out, spread your legs, get VD, get pregnant, what ever the fuck you want. Just do it on your own dime. What is possibly unclear about that?
That's pure economics here. The only way to 100% avoid paying for unwanted pregnancies as a citizen is to either completely stop funding education via tax money, as well as jails, or to pay for birth control. And dollar for dollar, the birth control is far cheaper.
If as a taxpayer I pay for birth control I still pay. I'm paying for birth control and the occasional failure of the birth control, as well as STD costs I'd have paid for with or without birth control. I'm just paying less. This isn't a tough situation to model out mathematically. Any sensible person realizes the cheaper option is to pay for the birth control.
And again, you're arguing that charity = government. If government doesn't pay for it then citizens won't donate the money ourselves. It's a cop out. If citizens won't pay for it ourselves, government should not pay paying for it for us on our behalf with our money. And I think you're wrong. If government got out of the charity business, we would.
Also, I reject the premise that the baby is our responsibility which is what you are arguing, it's not
After 97 pages of this crap, WHO is exactly being accused of being against Birth Control and what is the specific evidence to back this claim?
If you're too lazy to read it, and just want to jump in, don't expect us to fill you in with the Readers Digest version.
Actually, I am not arguing charity=government. The issue is as a tax payer there are certain things that I pay for that are provided to any child born in the USA. Even if you toss out of the conversation entitlements, at the bare minimum it's education, and in the event of wrong doing, incarceration. I'd just rather use my tax money more efficiently and birth control is a way to do that.If you don't provide birth control, you end up paying for education or incarceration for these kids that are born. So I do pay even if I don't pay for birth control. Just under Birth Control I pay less.It's not an either or proposition though. You will still be paying for the bad choices anyway, in addition to birth control...Generally speaking, I agree I don't want to pay for other people's choices. The problem here is that I'm going to pay either way, either in the minimal cost of birth control or in the schooling or incarceration of the kid. One is very much cheaper than the other, so I'm going with the cheap one.What the fuck? Places at the "feet of women?" Fuck your brains out, spread your legs, get VD, get pregnant, what ever the fuck you want. Just do it on your own dime. What is possibly unclear about that?
That's pure economics here. The only way to 100% avoid paying for unwanted pregnancies as a citizen is to either completely stop funding education via tax money, as well as jails, or to pay for birth control. And dollar for dollar, the birth control is far cheaper.
If as a taxpayer I pay for birth control I still pay. I'm paying for birth control and the occasional failure of the birth control, as well as STD costs I'd have paid for with or without birth control. I'm just paying less. This isn't a tough situation to model out mathematically. Any sensible person realizes the cheaper option is to pay for the birth control.
And again, you're arguing that charity = government. If government doesn't pay for it then citizens won't donate the money ourselves. It's a cop out. If citizens won't pay for it ourselves, government should not pay paying for it for us on our behalf with our money. And I think you're wrong. If government got out of the charity business, we would.
Also, I reject the premise that the baby is our responsibility which is what you are arguing, it's not
I'll tell you what. I will do that, but I want to know what you are going to do about it if I do first. Are you going to blow it off and say whatever? Or are you going to say wow, that is a huge problem with Canadian healthcare then? Or something else? SpecifyYou need proof there is a correlation between the time it takes to see a doctor and heart and cancer death rates? Seriously?
Prove your claims. Death and disease rates are influenced by a number of different factors - genetics, access to health care, preventative care, life style, smoking, diet, etc etc. You didn't know this? Seriously?
Tell you what - let's both do it and see what we come up with?
http://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care
More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds
Interesting....several points:
The percentage of Canadian patients who travelled abroad to receive non-emergency medical care was 1.1 per cent, an increase compared to 0.9 per cent in 2013.
The study speculates as to why Canadian patients left the country to pursue treatment elsewhere. The reasons include a lack of available resources and equipment in their home jurisdiction; and the desire for more advanced health care facilities and technology.
The study suggests that another reason could be the long wait-times within the Canadian health care system and suggests this as another possible reason for patients leaving
In a 2014 study by the Commonwealth Fund, a private American health care reform and international health policy organization, Canada had the second-worst overall ranking among the health care systems of 11 industrialized nations and ranked last in the wait-time category. Only the American health care system ranked worse overall.
So it looks like this is mostly related to elective procedures and specialists. It does correlate with what the statistics I posted also said - that the Canadian health care system ranked poorly in long wait times and in most modern equipment. So that is likely the trade off for the benefits it provides. But it doesn't say anything about more deaths due to heart disease and cancer related to the health care system. For one thing - Canada seems to have lower heart disease death rates.
After 97 pages of this crap, WHO is exactly being accused of being against Birth Control and what is the specific evidence to back this claim?
If you're too lazy to read it, and just want to jump in, don't expect us to fill you in with the Readers Digest version.
Coyote maintains, and always has maintained, that saying "we don't want the feds to pay for birth control" is the same thing as "we don't think women should be allowed to have birth control".
It isn't, but she wrongheadedly plows ahead with the false narrative, believing, as Hitler did, that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
-Joseph Goebbels
