Why the "Dealmaker" in Chief couldn't make a deal to R&R O-care

[usmbguest5318]

Usually I appreciate your OPs

Thank you for saying so. That's kind of you.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Dems had all three branches and passed ACA

Republicans had all three branches and couldnt get a healthcare bill out of the House.

if thats not an indication of loser I dont know what is.

I don't know that I'd call that being a "loser" so much as I'd call it not being up for the task one is presently called to do. I suppose less kind people would call it having risen above the level of one's incompetence while not having overcome the incompetence itself. I wouldn't call it "loser" because everyone fails eventually. It's just that really capable people don't fail on things they've had seven years to get right. Even so, the GOP need to fail on quite a few other things before they can rightly be called "losers."

 

[usmbguest5318]

You're not providing any evidence for your claims, either.

• 10 Characteristics Of Successful/Effective Negotiators | Situational Communication
• Ten Personality Traits of Top Negotiators - dummies

The traits of strong negotiators manifest themselves in a variety of ways. I mentioned a few in my OP. They correspond to one's exhibition of empathy, responsibility, respect, equity, self-discipline, and stamina. The negotiation skill is not a one-dimensional one; it's the coalescence of multiple character traits that when synergistically applied allow one to perform effectively as a negotiator. People who have the skill "in spades" can transfer them to any field. Others are good at negotiating in one area, but they aren't -- for a variety of reasons -- able to transfer them to others. That is Trump, or at least it's what we've observed displayed thus far.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Another year of Obamacare and people will be calling for his head on a platter.

I hope this Congress can get together and do something good about medical care in America.

I know it was not too shabby 30 years ago. Yes,people have always fussed about the price.

 

[Marion Morrison]

You're not providing any evidence for your claims, either.

• 10 Characteristics Of Successful/Effective Negotiators | Situational Communication
• Ten Personality Traits of Top Negotiators - dummies

Perhaps you have time to add that to the OP?

 

[BULLDOG]

Looks like the right might be realizing that Government and business aren't the same thing, and can not be run the same way.

 

[usmbguest5318]

You're not providing any evidence for your claims, either.

• 10 Characteristics Of Successful/Effective Negotiators | Situational Communication
• Ten Personality Traits of Top Negotiators - dummies

Perhaps you have time to add that to the OP?

I did, so I did. TY for the constructive input.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Looks like the right might be realizing that Government and business aren't the same thing, and can not be run the same way.

I hate to be Captain Obvious but the only person that applies to is Trump.

Trump is not "the right". He is the president of The United States.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Looks like the right might be realizing that Government and business aren't the same thing, and can not be run the same way.

They may be learning that.

What's clear to me is that they've just observed that governing -- at all, regardless of how well -- and complaining about how someone else is governs require one bring to bear completely different sets of skills. Lots of people have said it, but not nary enough folks take the message to heart: Remember what Mama and the old folks used to say said? Don't let your mouth write a check you mind and body can't cash.

I'm going to hope the Republicans have at least learned that lesson. If they do, it suggests they've begun to learn how to learn from their mistakes, and that's a mighty fine lesson to learn.

 

[Mousterian]

Trump is a blowhard, the only talent he's demonstrated so far is in slogans and soundbites.

And his failures he ascribes to others.
Muslim Ban Failure... Courts to blame
O'Care R&R... TParty to blame
Now he's resolved to drop the O'Care R&R, and let it burn. Good one, Bagwan!
And 'Concentrate on Tax Reform'. Let's see how this one goes.

 

[Reasonable]

Donald Trump repeatedly told what a great dealmaker he is. In real estate, he is a great dealmaker. So why wasn't he able to parlay that ability over to getting a viable deal on the R&R of O-care? Here's why:

• Prideful hubris -- Trump is grossly overconfident in his own abilities. He's a good negotiator, but he hasn't spent any time thinking about what makes one, anyone including him, a good deal maker.
• Ignorance -- What makes one a great negotiator is information. Quite simply, to make a great deal of any sort, on must know the subject matter very well and one must know very well the decision makers besides oneself.
  • Trump treated the matter as a political one, not as a serious one that transcends politics and is something that one actually has to comprehend very well beyond what one needs to deliver and effective "smoke and mirrors" marketing message. It doesn't matter how well one can market a turd in a can, it's still a turd in a can.
  • Trump made no effort over the past two years to really understand the matter and he didn't delegate the lead on it to someone who does.
  • Trump is new to Washington and he doesn't know the members of Congress and what motivates them.
  • Trump has met politicians, but that doesn't mean he understands the political process. I met Leontyne Price and Luciano Pavarotti, but that doesn't mean I can sing. He may be new to Washington, but most of Congress is not, and there again he didn't develop a deep understanding of it, or yield the process to someone who does.
• Sloth -- I know it seems odd to call a POTUS or billionaire indolent, but what else does one call it when the man, even after acknowledging that healthcare indeed complicated, made no effort, or not enough of one, to "get up to speed" on it, as we say in consulting.

Observers who are old enough will recall that many of those same things are why Hillary Clinton failed to get healthcare fixed when she tried during her husband's presidency. Trump was friends with HRC and WJC back then and well beyond, and were he truly a thinker, he'd have seen that, known better. and learned from her mistakes, to say nothing of Obama's success at getting O-care passed. It's not as though when they held sway in Congress and the WH, the Dems were any less fractured than are the Republicans now. That's another big problem with Trump: not only is he very prideful, he has yet to show that he can or will avail himself of vicarious learning opportunities.

Not making the kind of sophomoric mistakes that derive from the failings above is what distinguishes really capable leaders from so-so ones. Yet again, we see that Trump is not exceptionally gifted overall; he's merely an average guy who's good at a small quantity of things in a rather narrow range of disciplines. And, bless his heart, he is good at some things. He should stick to taking the reigns on those subjects and delegating the rest to people whose specialty lies in those areas. (Oddly, Trump has structured his Administration so as to put people who are expert at "XYZ" in charge of something other than "XYZ.") One can only hope -- for the sake of the nation, not because I give a sh*t about Trump himself -- that Trump's character weaknesses don't again hinder his ability to think more carefully about the situation and overcome his knowledge gap.

• 10 Characteristics Of Successful/Effective Negotiators | Situational Communication
• Ten Personality Traits of Top Negotiators - dummies

The traits of strong negotiators manifest themselves in a variety of ways. I mentioned a few in my OP. They correspond to one's exhibition of empathy, responsibility, respect, equity, self-discipline, and stamina. The negotiation skill is not a one-dimensional one; it's the coalescence of multiple character traits that when synergistically applied allow one to perform effectively as a negotiator. People who have the skill "in spades" can transfer them to any field. Others are good at negotiating in one area, but they aren't -- for a variety of reasons -- able to transfer them to others. That is Trump, or at least it's what we've observed displayed thus far.

You're absolutely correct Xelor. Trump didn't have sufficient policy details to even negotiate.
My main criticism of him has always been, other than his racism, mysogyny and embarrassing proclivities to lie at all times, was that he was totally unqualified for the job. How many people go into a job interview and are asked " What r your qualifications for the job? "
Answer NONE, and hear " you're hired."
We all heard him bragging " I'm a deal maker. I make great deals. The best." That's of course if you understand the subject matter.
He was humiliated today because he is unfit for the job.

 

[Reasonable]

 

[Toro]

It's all the Democrats fault.

 

[usmbguest5318]

he was totally unqualified for the job. How many people go into a job interview and are asked " What r your qualifications for the job? "
Answer NONE, and hear " you're hired."

Well, that's a picturesque way of putting it, but, yes, that's about what we did by ignoring Trump's novelty with collaborative leadership and public policymaking.

Mind you, profound inexperience can be overcome. I've certainly done it. I had a colleague take ill and I was the only person who had the bandwidth to assume his responsibilities. I really didn't know the client's industry -- mining -- or the project's specific subject matter (it was a purely technical implementation). I knew that if I just effectively managed the process and collaboration among my teams and the client, not the work itself, and relied on my people, letting them apply their topical expertise, I could see the thing to a successful end. I didn't much like doing that -- I had many a "tight sphincter" day -- but I liked far less the prospect of our defaulting on the contract. Had time constraints not been as they were, I would have hired a principal to assume leadership of the project, but that just wasn't an option. So, I did what I had to do rather than what I'd have rather done.

The point of saying that isn't to toot my own horn, but rather to briefly illustrate that leaders can overcome adversity and challenges. Another point is that even though one isn't truly qualified to achieve the task at hand, if one is willing to "grow into it" and not let it lead oneself, the lack of certain specific quals need not be a real problem.

The thing in my mind re: Trump is that from the moment he announced his candidacy, I haven't seen much of anything that indicates he's got the skill diversity and adaptability it takes to be the kind of leader who can thrive outside of his comfort zone. It's not as though he's alone in that regard. It's that he just hasn't yet displayed that is the kind of person who can managerially flex in the ways that are needed.

That matters a lot because running the government is unlike anything one can possibly imagine. The scale, scope and statutory environment make it impossible to do things the way any first rate exec in the private sector would. Given what I have thus far observed in Trump's management style and personality traits, I can't imagine that he will thrive (other than perhaps financially for himself) as POTUS. Even as I say that, for the sake of the nation, I'd love to be proven wrong. I don't want an ineffectual POTUS; regardless of his party; I just fear we truly have one. But, hey, we're just a couple months in. Trump may "grow into" the role -- he'd need to do it really quickly and really dramatically -- and it'd be better for everyone if he does.

He was humiliated today because he is unfit for the job.

Yes. I agree. The question, as discussed above, is whether he remains that way, and if he does, for how long. There is a point after which there is no return.

I'm not at all sure Trump feels humiliated. I don't even think of the ACHA's dismissal as an embarrassment. Even the best leaders don't always "win." They take their loss and move on. Trump did that, albeit not quite as I think he should have, but that he did, is the only glimmer of sagacity I've seen from him and that gives me a meager basis for thinking there's hope for him as POTUS. It remains to be seen if he expands upon that smart move.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Trump is a blowhard

He definitely has a well established penchant for speaking effusively about things he doesn't understand well. That's a lot of things -- none good -- but most importantly, it's a thing mature, intelligent and responsible people , leaders, don't do....They don't let their mouths write checks their brains and body can't cash. In other words, they know their limits and they don't make others suffer for and/or fail as a result of them.

That that is part and parcel of Trump's being is clear to me. Surely it was to millions of others, even people who voted for him. What is far less apparent to me is how and why those people, in exercising their suffrage, saw fit to overlook those demerits and grant him their approbation. I get why Trump wanted it. I don't get why they gave it.

 

[Norman]

Donald Trump repeatedly told what a great dealmaker he is. In real estate, he is a great dealmaker. So why wasn't he able to parlay that ability over to getting a viable deal on the R&R of O-care? Here's why:

• Prideful hubris -- Trump is grossly overconfident in his own abilities. He's a good negotiator, but he hasn't spent any time thinking about what makes one, anyone including him, a good deal maker.
• Ignorance -- What makes one a great negotiator is information. Quite simply, to make a great deal of any sort, on must know the subject matter very well and one must know very well the decision makers besides oneself.
  • Trump treated the matter as a political one, not as a serious one that transcends politics and is something that one actually has to comprehend very well beyond what one needs to deliver and effective "smoke and mirrors" marketing message. It doesn't matter how well one can market a turd in a can, it's still a turd in a can.
  • Trump made no effort over the past two years to really understand the matter and he didn't delegate the lead on it to someone who does.
  • Trump is new to Washington and he doesn't know the members of Congress and what motivates them.
  • Trump has met politicians, but that doesn't mean he understands the political process. I met Leontyne Price and Luciano Pavarotti, but that doesn't mean I can sing. He may be new to Washington, but most of Congress is not, and there again he didn't develop a deep understanding of it, or yield the process to someone who does.
• Sloth -- I know it seems odd to call a POTUS or billionaire indolent, but what else does one call it when the man, even after acknowledging that healthcare indeed complicated, made no effort, or not enough of one, to "get up to speed" on it, as we say in consulting.

Observers who are old enough will recall that many of those same things are why Hillary Clinton failed to get healthcare fixed when she tried during her husband's presidency. Trump was friends with HRC and WJC back then and well beyond, and were he truly a thinker, he'd have seen that, known better. and learned from her mistakes, to say nothing of Obama's success at getting O-care passed. It's not as though when they held sway in Congress and the WH, the Dems were any less fractured than are the Republicans now. That's another big problem with Trump: not only is he very prideful, he has yet to show that he can or will avail himself of vicarious learning opportunities.

Not making the kind of sophomoric mistakes that derive from the failings above is what distinguishes really capable leaders from so-so ones. Yet again, we see that Trump is not exceptionally gifted overall; he's merely an average guy who's good at a small quantity of things in a rather narrow range of disciplines. And, bless his heart, he is good at some things. He should stick to taking the reigns on those subjects and delegating the rest to people whose specialty lies in those areas. (Oddly, Trump has structured his Administration so as to put people who are expert at "XYZ" in charge of something other than "XYZ.") One can only hope -- for the sake of the nation, not because I give a sh*t about Trump himself -- that Trump's character weaknesses don't again hinder his ability to think more carefully about the situation and overcome his knowledge gap.

• 10 Characteristics Of Successful/Effective Negotiators | Situational Communication
• Ten Personality Traits of Top Negotiators - dummies

The traits of strong negotiators manifest themselves in a variety of ways. I mentioned a few in my OP. They correspond to one's exhibition of empathy, responsibility, respect, equity, self-discipline, and stamina. The negotiation skill is not a one-dimensional one; it's the coalescence of multiple character traits that when synergistically applied allow one to perform effectively as a negotiator. People who have the skill "in spades" can transfer them to any field. Others are good at negotiating in one area, but they aren't -- for a variety of reasons -- able to transfer them to others. That is Trump, or at least it's what we've observed displayed thus far.

What makes you think it's all over? Best deals aren't made immediately the first time the opportunity poses itself. Think about O-Care, "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it". That's not gonna happen with Trump now is it? He still has 7 and a half years to make the deal, no need to rush it.

 

[Penelope]

So here is your Pres. , the GOP couldn't agree on a plan, even when taking the Essential Health Benefits Out, and for the Freedom Caucus that was not good enough, they wanted it all scraped, so Trump says let it explode.

What kind of president is that, let it explode, health care for millions, who gives a rip?? Trump is a low life, he needs to tell the insurance companies got get on the exchanges or be fined, and put a cap on the yearly increases. He has a foundation to work with, but like the OP said he is a lazy ass, if it isn't easy he isn't doing it, that is what is called always using OPM's, never skin off your back, and he is a one big fake. People will wake up when the Dems introduce universal health care coverage, since the GOP is going to continue to make sure the ACA does explode.

The difference between Obamacare and Trumpcare, is Obama really cared.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Dems had all three branches and passed ACA

Republicans had all three branches and couldnt get a healthcare bill out of the House.

if thats not an indication of loser I dont know what is.

Looks like the right might be realizing that Government and business aren't the same thing, and can not be run the same way.

Another year of Obamacare and people will be calling for his head on a platter.

I hope this Congress can get together and do something good about medical care in America.

I know it was not too shabby 30 years ago. Yes,people have always fussed about the price.

So here is your Pres. , the GOP couldn't agree on a plan, even when taking the Essential Health Benefits Out, and for the Freedom Caucus that was not good enough, they wanted it all scraped, so Trump says let it explode.

What kind of president is that, let it explode, health care for millions, who gives a rip?? Trump is a low life, he needs to tell the insurance companies got get on the exchanges or be fined, and put a cap on the yearly increases. He has a foundation to work with, but like the OP said he is a lazy ass, if it isn't easy he isn't doing it, that is what is called always using OPM's, never skin off your back, and he is a one big fake. People will wake up when the Dems introduce universal health care coverage, since the GOP is going to continue to make sure the ACA doesn't explode.

The difference between Obamacare and Trumpcare, is Obama really cared.

He didn't pass the Obamacare tax. Obama did, give it another year and people will be calling for his head on a platter. "But he cared" Pwahahahahaha!

Here's another little hint, sweetie: The president can never sign a bill that doesn't even make it out of the house.

In case you didn't know, it's Congress's job to come up with the laws.

There's really nothing more Trump could have done. This one's all on Tom Ryan, who is now exposed for the globalist shill
that he is. Effectively his career in politics is done this Saturday morning.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Donald Trump repeatedly told what a great dealmaker he is. In real estate, he is a great dealmaker. So why wasn't he able to parlay that ability over to getting a viable deal on the R&R of O-care? Here's why:

• Prideful hubris -- Trump is grossly overconfident in his own abilities. He's a good negotiator, but he hasn't spent any time thinking about what makes one, anyone including him, a good deal maker.
• Ignorance -- What makes one a great negotiator is information. Quite simply, to make a great deal of any sort, on must know the subject matter very well and one must know very well the decision makers besides oneself.
  • Trump treated the matter as a political one, not as a serious one that transcends politics and is something that one actually has to comprehend very well beyond what one needs to deliver and effective "smoke and mirrors" marketing message. It doesn't matter how well one can market a turd in a can, it's still a turd in a can.
  • Trump made no effort over the past two years to really understand the matter and he didn't delegate the lead on it to someone who does.
  • Trump is new to Washington and he doesn't know the members of Congress and what motivates them.
  • Trump has met politicians, but that doesn't mean he understands the political process. I met Leontyne Price and Luciano Pavarotti, but that doesn't mean I can sing. He may be new to Washington, but most of Congress is not, and there again he didn't develop a deep understanding of it, or yield the process to someone who does.
• Sloth -- I know it seems odd to call a POTUS or billionaire indolent, but what else does one call it when the man, even after acknowledging that healthcare indeed complicated, made no effort, or not enough of one, to "get up to speed" on it, as we say in consulting.

Observers who are old enough will recall that many of those same things are why Hillary Clinton failed to get healthcare fixed when she tried during her husband's presidency. Trump was friends with HRC and WJC back then and well beyond, and were he truly a thinker, he'd have seen that, known better. and learned from her mistakes, to say nothing of Obama's success at getting O-care passed. It's not as though when they held sway in Congress and the WH, the Dems were any less fractured than are the Republicans now. That's another big problem with Trump: not only is he very prideful, he has yet to show that he can or will avail himself of vicarious learning opportunities.

Not making the kind of sophomoric mistakes that derive from the failings above is what distinguishes really capable leaders from so-so ones. Yet again, we see that Trump is not exceptionally gifted overall; he's merely an average guy who's good at a small quantity of things in a rather narrow range of disciplines. And, bless his heart, he is good at some things. He should stick to taking the reigns on those subjects and delegating the rest to people whose specialty lies in those areas. (Oddly, Trump has structured his Administration so as to put people who are expert at "XYZ" in charge of something other than "XYZ.") One can only hope -- for the sake of the nation, not because I give a sh*t about Trump himself -- that Trump's character weaknesses don't again hinder his ability to think more carefully about the situation and overcome his knowledge gap.

• 10 Characteristics Of Successful/Effective Negotiators | Situational Communication
• Ten Personality Traits of Top Negotiators - dummies

The traits of strong negotiators manifest themselves in a variety of ways. I mentioned a few in my OP. They correspond to one's exhibition of empathy, responsibility, respect, equity, self-discipline, and stamina. The negotiation skill is not a one-dimensional one; it's the coalescence of multiple character traits that when synergistically applied allow one to perform effectively as a negotiator. People who have the skill "in spades" can transfer them to any field. Others are good at negotiating in one area, but they aren't -- for a variety of reasons -- able to transfer them to others. That is Trump, or at least it's what we've observed displayed thus far.

What makes you think it's all over? Best deals aren't made immediately the first time the opportunity poses itself. Think about O-Care, "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it". That's not gonna happen with Trump now is it? He still has 7 and a half years to make the deal, no need to rush it.

He still has 7 and a half years

I appreciate your willingness to participate in the discussion. So thank you for that. The presumptive inaccuracy of the remark just above suggests, however, that I'm best off saying no more.

 

[kyzr]

All Trump needs to do is stop the "cost-sharing subsidy payments" and Obamacare is done...
Tax Reform will help the economy
Infrastructure spending will help the economy
The Wall and less cheap labor due to more deportations will help the job market and wages
The Trump Bump is helping the economy

The dems have nothing to offer us, nothing...(Maxine? Nancy? Pocahontas? ) no thanks