Why the "Dealmaker" in Chief couldn't make a deal to R&R O-care

[Penelope]

Dems had all three branches and passed ACA

Republicans had all three branches and couldnt get a healthcare bill out of the House.

if thats not an indication of loser I dont know what is.

Looks like the right might be realizing that Government and business aren't the same thing, and can not be run the same way.

Another year of Obamacare and people will be calling for his head on a platter.

I hope this Congress can get together and do something good about medical care in America.

I know it was not too shabby 30 years ago. Yes,people have always fussed about the price.

So here is your Pres. , the GOP couldn't agree on a plan, even when taking the Essential Health Benefits Out, and for the Freedom Caucus that was not good enough, they wanted it all scraped, so Trump says let it explode.

What kind of president is that, let it explode, health care for millions, who gives a rip?? Trump is a low life, he needs to tell the insurance companies got get on the exchanges or be fined, and put a cap on the yearly increases. He has a foundation to work with, but like the OP said he is a lazy ass, if it isn't easy he isn't doing it, that is what is called always using OPM's, never skin off your back, and he is a one big fake. People will wake up when the Dems introduce universal health care coverage, since the GOP is going to continue to make sure the ACA doesn't explode.

The difference between Obamacare and Trumpcare, is Obama really cared.

He didn't pass the Obamacare tax. Obama did, give it another year and people will be calling for his head on a platter. "But he cared" Pwahahahahaha!

Here's another little hint, sweetie: The president can never sign a bill that doesn't even make it out of the house.

In case you didn't know, it's Congress's job to come up with the laws.

There's really nothing more Trump could have done. This one's all on Tom Ryan, who is now exposed for the globalist shill
that he is. Effectively his career in politics is done this Saturday morning.

Oh he is going to let them get rid of the mandates, and turn Medicaid into block grants, watch and learn. Trump is slime, Ryan is slime, and the Freedom Caucus is crud. I am sick of the tax cuts for the rich, and that is what Trumps tax bill will look like, screw them, they have been living high off the hog for decades, time to pay the piper.

 

[Penelope]

All Trump needs to do is stop the "cost-sharing subsidy payments" and Obamacare is done...
Tax Reform will help the economy
Infrastructure spending will help the economy
The Wall and less cheap labor due to more deportations will help the job market and wages
The Trump Bump is helping the economy

The dems have nothing to offer us, nothing...(Maxine? Nancy? Pocahontas? ) no thanks

Tax reform will help the rich, and their economy. Trump has not done a thing for the economy. He is riding the coattails of Obama. If anything he is spending lots of money on this little trips to Fl every weekend.

 

[Norman]

Donald Trump repeatedly told what a great dealmaker he is. In real estate, he is a great dealmaker. So why wasn't he able to parlay that ability over to getting a viable deal on the R&R of O-care? Here's why:

• Prideful hubris -- Trump is grossly overconfident in his own abilities. He's a good negotiator, but he hasn't spent any time thinking about what makes one, anyone including him, a good deal maker.
• Ignorance -- What makes one a great negotiator is information. Quite simply, to make a great deal of any sort, on must know the subject matter very well and one must know very well the decision makers besides oneself.
  • Trump treated the matter as a political one, not as a serious one that transcends politics and is something that one actually has to comprehend very well beyond what one needs to deliver and effective "smoke and mirrors" marketing message. It doesn't matter how well one can market a turd in a can, it's still a turd in a can.
  • Trump made no effort over the past two years to really understand the matter and he didn't delegate the lead on it to someone who does.
  • Trump is new to Washington and he doesn't know the members of Congress and what motivates them.
  • Trump has met politicians, but that doesn't mean he understands the political process. I met Leontyne Price and Luciano Pavarotti, but that doesn't mean I can sing. He may be new to Washington, but most of Congress is not, and there again he didn't develop a deep understanding of it, or yield the process to someone who does.
• Sloth -- I know it seems odd to call a POTUS or billionaire indolent, but what else does one call it when the man, even after acknowledging that healthcare indeed complicated, made no effort, or not enough of one, to "get up to speed" on it, as we say in consulting.

Observers who are old enough will recall that many of those same things are why Hillary Clinton failed to get healthcare fixed when she tried during her husband's presidency. Trump was friends with HRC and WJC back then and well beyond, and were he truly a thinker, he'd have seen that, known better. and learned from her mistakes, to say nothing of Obama's success at getting O-care passed. It's not as though when they held sway in Congress and the WH, the Dems were any less fractured than are the Republicans now. That's another big problem with Trump: not only is he very prideful, he has yet to show that he can or will avail himself of vicarious learning opportunities.

Not making the kind of sophomoric mistakes that derive from the failings above is what distinguishes really capable leaders from so-so ones. Yet again, we see that Trump is not exceptionally gifted overall; he's merely an average guy who's good at a small quantity of things in a rather narrow range of disciplines. And, bless his heart, he is good at some things. He should stick to taking the reigns on those subjects and delegating the rest to people whose specialty lies in those areas. (Oddly, Trump has structured his Administration so as to put people who are expert at "XYZ" in charge of something other than "XYZ.") One can only hope -- for the sake of the nation, not because I give a sh*t about Trump himself -- that Trump's character weaknesses don't again hinder his ability to think more carefully about the situation and overcome his knowledge gap.

• 10 Characteristics Of Successful/Effective Negotiators | Situational Communication
• Ten Personality Traits of Top Negotiators - dummies

The traits of strong negotiators manifest themselves in a variety of ways. I mentioned a few in my OP. They correspond to one's exhibition of empathy, responsibility, respect, equity, self-discipline, and stamina. The negotiation skill is not a one-dimensional one; it's the coalescence of multiple character traits that when synergistically applied allow one to perform effectively as a negotiator. People who have the skill "in spades" can transfer them to any field. Others are good at negotiating in one area, but they aren't -- for a variety of reasons -- able to transfer them to others. That is Trump, or at least it's what we've observed displayed thus far.

What makes you think it's all over? Best deals aren't made immediately the first time the opportunity poses itself. Think about O-Care, "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it". That's not gonna happen with Trump now is it? He still has 7 and a half years to make the deal, no need to rush it.

He still has 7 and a half years

I appreciate your willingness to participate in the discussion. So thank you for that. The presumptive inaccuracy of the remark just above suggests, however, that I'm best off saying no more.

It sure is more accurate than the source of your information:

Trump has just turned down Ryan care written by Ryan's corporate sponsors. O-care will be next.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Donald Trump repeatedly told what a great dealmaker he is. In real estate, he is a great dealmaker. So why wasn't he able to parlay that ability over to getting a viable deal on the R&R of O-care? Here's why:

• Prideful hubris -- Trump is grossly overconfident in his own abilities. He's a good negotiator, but he hasn't spent any time thinking about what makes one, anyone including him, a good deal maker.
• Ignorance -- What makes one a great negotiator is information. Quite simply, to make a great deal of any sort, on must know the subject matter very well and one must know very well the decision makers besides oneself.
  • Trump treated the matter as a political one, not as a serious one that transcends politics and is something that one actually has to comprehend very well beyond what one needs to deliver and effective "smoke and mirrors" marketing message. It doesn't matter how well one can market a turd in a can, it's still a turd in a can.
  • Trump made no effort over the past two years to really understand the matter and he didn't delegate the lead on it to someone who does.
  • Trump is new to Washington and he doesn't know the members of Congress and what motivates them.
  • Trump has met politicians, but that doesn't mean he understands the political process. I met Leontyne Price and Luciano Pavarotti, but that doesn't mean I can sing. He may be new to Washington, but most of Congress is not, and there again he didn't develop a deep understanding of it, or yield the process to someone who does.
• Sloth -- I know it seems odd to call a POTUS or billionaire indolent, but what else does one call it when the man, even after acknowledging that healthcare indeed complicated, made no effort, or not enough of one, to "get up to speed" on it, as we say in consulting.

Observers who are old enough will recall that many of those same things are why Hillary Clinton failed to get healthcare fixed when she tried during her husband's presidency. Trump was friends with HRC and WJC back then and well beyond, and were he truly a thinker, he'd have seen that, known better. and learned from her mistakes, to say nothing of Obama's success at getting O-care passed. It's not as though when they held sway in Congress and the WH, the Dems were any less fractured than are the Republicans now. That's another big problem with Trump: not only is he very prideful, he has yet to show that he can or will avail himself of vicarious learning opportunities.

Not making the kind of sophomoric mistakes that derive from the failings above is what distinguishes really capable leaders from so-so ones. Yet again, we see that Trump is not exceptionally gifted overall; he's merely an average guy who's good at a small quantity of things in a rather narrow range of disciplines. And, bless his heart, he is good at some things. He should stick to taking the reigns on those subjects and delegating the rest to people whose specialty lies in those areas. (Oddly, Trump has structured his Administration so as to put people who are expert at "XYZ" in charge of something other than "XYZ.") One can only hope -- for the sake of the nation, not because I give a sh*t about Trump himself -- that Trump's character weaknesses don't again hinder his ability to think more carefully about the situation and overcome his knowledge gap.

• 10 Characteristics Of Successful/Effective Negotiators | Situational Communication
• Ten Personality Traits of Top Negotiators - dummies

The traits of strong negotiators manifest themselves in a variety of ways. I mentioned a few in my OP. They correspond to one's exhibition of empathy, responsibility, respect, equity, self-discipline, and stamina. The negotiation skill is not a one-dimensional one; it's the coalescence of multiple character traits that when synergistically applied allow one to perform effectively as a negotiator. People who have the skill "in spades" can transfer them to any field. Others are good at negotiating in one area, but they aren't -- for a variety of reasons -- able to transfer them to others. That is Trump, or at least it's what we've observed displayed thus far.

What makes you think it's all over? Best deals aren't made immediately the first time the opportunity poses itself. Think about O-Care, "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it". That's not gonna happen with Trump now is it? He still has 7 and a half years to make the deal, no need to rush it.

He still has 7 and a half years

I appreciate your willingness to participate in the discussion. So thank you for that. The presumptive inaccuracy of the remark just above suggests, however, that I'm best off saying no more.

It sure is more accurate than the source of your information:

Trump has just turned down Ryan care written by Ryan's corporate sponsors. O-care will be next.

It is neither accurate nor logical: Hypothesis Contrary to Fact

 

[BULLDOG]

Looks like the right might be realizing that Government and business aren't the same thing, and can not be run the same way.

I hate to be Captain Obvious but the only person that applies to is Trump.

Trump is not "the right". He is the president of The United States.

Trump was chosen by the right to represent the right in the election. Wanting government run like a business has been a common right wing meme for several years. I completely understand you trying to distance yourself from that clown, but on the subject of whether a country can be run like a business, Trump, and the rest of the right are joined at the hip.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Looks like the right might be realizing that Government and business aren't the same thing, and can not be run the same way.

I hate to be Captain Obvious but the only person that applies to is Trump.

Trump is not "the right". He is the president of The United States.

Trump was chosen by the right to represent the right in the election. Wanting government run like a business has been a common right wing meme for several years. I completely understand you trying to distance yourself from that clown, but on the subject of whether a country can be run like a business, Trump, and the rest of the right are joined at the hip.

on the subject of whether a country can be run like a business

Well, the government can be run like a business. The thing that so many folks overlook -- I don't really know why -- is that were the government run like a business, much that the government does would or would not be undertaken purely on the calculus of well crafted and logical value propositions, that is, based the empirical findings of a cost-benefit analysis. While I don't personally have a problem with that, I know that without a doubt that literally tens of millions, most especially the young, the old, the poorly educated and just plain poor would not fare well were strict cost-benefit based reasoning the discriminant for government decisions.

Some, indeed a great many, of the people in whose personal interest is it least advantageous for the government run like a business are often the most vociferous of people advocating for just that. That they do is among the most profoundly surprising manifestations of the Dunning-Kruger effect that I've ever witnessed. Strange as it is, when I encounter those people, I tend to point out the pros and cons of unrestrained capitalism, perhaps asking them to address the cons within the context of the discussion, but otherwise push no farther, for, quite frankly, I wouldn't rue their getting their way on that point. (If they're on USMB, depending on how they respond, I will add them to my ignore list because frankly anyone who's fool enough not to, after having been shown as much, realize that what they're asking for would, were they to get it, bring about their ruin, is someone I'm not wasting my time with. Those folks truly deserve to get what they're asking for in that respect.)

 

[BULLDOG]

Looks like the right might be realizing that Government and business aren't the same thing, and can not be run the same way.

I hate to be Captain Obvious but the only person that applies to is Trump.

Trump is not "the right". He is the president of The United States.

Trump was chosen by the right to represent the right in the election. Wanting government run like a business has been a common right wing meme for several years. I completely understand you trying to distance yourself from that clown, but on the subject of whether a country can be run like a business, Trump, and the rest of the right are joined at the hip.

on the subject of whether a country can be run like a business

Well, the government can be run like a business. The thing that so many folks overlook -- I don't really know why -- is that were the government run like a business, much that the government does would or would not be undertaken purely on the calculus of well crafted and logical value propositions, that is, based the empirical findings of a cost-benefit analysis. While I don't personally have a problem with that, I know that without a doubt that literally tens of millions, most especially the young, the old, the poorly educated and just plain poor would not fare well were strict cost-benefit based reasoning the discriminant for government decisions.

Some, indeed a great many, of the people in whose personal interest is it least advantageous for the government run like a business are often the most vociferous of people advocating for just that. That they do is among the most profoundly surprising manifestations of the Dunning-Kruger effect that I've ever witnessed. Strange as it is, when I encounter those people, I tend to point out the pros and cons of unrestrained capitalism, perhaps asking them to address the cons within the context of the discussion, but otherwise push no farther, for, quite frankly, I wouldn't rue their getting their way on that point. (If they're on USMB, depending on how they respond, I will add them to my ignore list because frankly anyone who's fool enough not to, after having been shown as much, realize that what they're asking for would, were they to get it, bring about their ruin, is someone I'm not wasting my time with. Those folks truly deserve to get what they're asking for in that respect.)

Yes, government can be run like a business, just like soup can be eaten with a fork. Both are extremely unproductive, and won't work out any where near like they are supposed to be.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Looks like the right might be realizing that Government and business aren't the same thing, and can not be run the same way.

I hate to be Captain Obvious but the only person that applies to is Trump.

Trump is not "the right". He is the president of The United States.

Trump was chosen by the right to represent the right in the election. Wanting government run like a business has been a common right wing meme for several years. I completely understand you trying to distance yourself from that clown, but on the subject of whether a country can be run like a business, Trump, and the rest of the right are joined at the hip.

on the subject of whether a country can be run like a business

Well, the government can be run like a business. The thing that so many folks overlook -- I don't really know why -- is that were the government run like a business, much that the government does would or would not be undertaken purely on the calculus of well crafted and logical value propositions, that is, based the empirical findings of a cost-benefit analysis. While I don't personally have a problem with that, I know that without a doubt that literally tens of millions, most especially the young, the old, the poorly educated and just plain poor would not fare well were strict cost-benefit based reasoning the discriminant for government decisions.

Some, indeed a great many, of the people in whose personal interest is it least advantageous for the government run like a business are often the most vociferous of people advocating for just that. That they do is among the most profoundly surprising manifestations of the Dunning-Kruger effect that I've ever witnessed. Strange as it is, when I encounter those people, I tend to point out the pros and cons of unrestrained capitalism, perhaps asking them to address the cons within the context of the discussion, but otherwise push no farther, for, quite frankly, I wouldn't rue their getting their way on that point. (If they're on USMB, depending on how they respond, I will add them to my ignore list because frankly anyone who's fool enough not to, after having been shown as much, realize that what they're asking for would, were they to get it, bring about their ruin, is someone I'm not wasting my time with. Those folks truly deserve to get what they're asking for in that respect.)

Yes, government can be run like a business, just like soup can be eaten with a fork. Both are extremely unproductive, and won't work out any where near like they are supposed to be.

Yes, government can be run like a business, just like soup can be eaten with a fork. Both are extremely unproductive, and won't work out any where near like they are supposed to be.

One must bear in mind that what government is "supposed to be" will necessarily change if it's going to be run as one would run a business. It wouldn't make any sense to retain the current normative expectations while implementing a completely new paradigm for how government works.

One doesn't get eat their cake and have it too. If one wants gov't to run like a business, then one cannot rationally expect it to provide government service as would an organization that runs like a government. I suppose there're a place where that does happen but all of them are in libraries.