Why the anger

[txlonghorn]

President Bush scared America into supporting his war of choice in Iraq. Even though the NIE's all contained caveats and qualifiers about the lack of certainty surrounding the intelligence estimates of Iraq's WMD capabilities and stockpiles, Team Bush nonetheless stated - deceitfully - that THERE WAS NO DOUBT that Saddam possessed stockpiles of WMD's. And Team Bush conflated that lie with the lie that there was a significant operational connection between Saddam and AQ.... so that when Americans thought about Saddam's CERTAIN stockpiles of WMD's and his supposedly chummy relationship with OBL...they were scared, and talk of mushroom clouds over American cities only served to fuel that paranoid fear. And because of that terrible fearful MISleading of the American public by our president, we invaded, conquered, and occupied Iraq at the cost of countless billions of dollars of our treasury, over four thousand lives of brave American servicemen and women and the untold great things they might have done with their lives and for our country had they been allowed to live... but we also forever gave up the moral high ground in international relations. We used to be seen as the guys with white hats... now we are not. For ALL of that, I will forever curse George Dubya Bush and I hope to live long enough to travel to Texas and piss on his grave.

Very creative...and quite the black helicopter thriller. The TRUTH is, we didn't know what that lunatic had. 12 years....COUNT THEM...12 years of dodging inspectors. How many times should we have let it continue to happen? What do you think was going on during all that time? Do you think that Saddam just ignored it and figured they'd never catch him so he just left the stuff there? No...it had to be moved. And it was.

When the unforeseen attack on NY and the Pentagon occurred in 2001, this country was already scared. Bush didn't do that...radical terrorists did. Mushroom clouds were not out of the realm of possibilities in anyone's mind at that point. If this operation could be planned, trained for and executed within our nations borders, then who is to say that something bigger and worse could not happen?

I believe the intelligence that the White House was operating on was a mixture of legitimate intel and some very bad intel. But the reality is, based on that information, our leadership, from the president on down to congress and the military experts agreed that there was enough of a concern that Iraq was a threat and that something had to be done. Bush didn't do that on his own either.

Now...if you want to bitch moan and complain about billions being spent and a president to blame look at how much debt we have now and where the debt level will be when this GOD AWFUL healthcare shit hits the fan...I wonder...feel like pissing on someone else's grave? Or are you just another Bush hater with no claim of fairness to fact?

I hate to burst your bubble but the idea to invade Iraq was preconceived as early as 98 and was considered a key foreign policy strategy in post cold war. Iraq, was the only country secular enough to establish a so called "democracy" in that area. It was the logical choice and the stepping stone to stabilization in the mideast and keeping the U.S. the ultimate power in a very uncertain post cold war world.

9-11 only helped reinforce public opinion by spreading fear and fermenting anger. In this case misled anger.

It is the ultimate irony that they went to Iraq to find so called "WMD" but then turned our own WMD in the form of white posphurus and MK 77 on the people they were supposedly liberating.

preconceived by who? And you're going to have to PROVE that WP was used on civilians. Claims with no proof are of no use to me.

 

[daveman]

Who said I'm angry?

You may not be, but many, if not most, liberals are...as well as the vast majority of leftists.

hmmm....got any stats to show that "many", "most" and "vast majority"? How does that relate to the anger quotient of the non-liberals?

Personal observation, so feel free to immediately dismiss it.

But if you don't see it, it's because you don't WANT to see it.

Now...let's explore the fallacy of Conservatives aren't driven by emotion...

Sure. This should be interesting.

Sure....

'You Lie!': Representative Wilson's Outburst - TIME - Joe Wilson got a tad emotional here....

Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck and O'really O'Reilly - all rightwing, rely on emotion to inflame their audiences and get their messages across.

Tea Partiers yelling down speakers at Town Hall meetings....ice queens or emotion-driven?

Yup...it's a veritable emotional roller coaster they're on right now, but I've a theory about that.

It comes down to repressive attitudes about sex and an unrealistic adherence to artificial family values. Ever notice the when it comes to scandals - 10 to 1, conservatives go with messy emotional scandals - footsie in the men's rooms, mistresses in South America - that end in tearful public apologies. Emotion.

Liberals on the other hand, tend toward financial scandals. Now what could be less emotional and more cold and calculating than William Jefferson storing his ill gotten dollars in the freezer for heaven's sakes?

Yes, the right has some emotional people. And the left has some logical people...somewhere, I guess.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Sure....

'You Lie!': Representative Wilson's Outburst - TIME - Joe Wilson got a tad emotional here....

Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck and O'really O'Reilly - both rightwing, rely on emotion to inflame their audiences and get their messages across.

Tea Partiers yelling down speakers at Town Hall meetings....ice queens or emotion-driven?

Yup...it's a veritable emotional roller coaster they're on right now, but I've a theory about that.

It comes down to repressive attitudes about sex and an unrealistic adherence to artificial family values. Ever notice the when it comes to scandals - 10 to 1, conservatives go with messy emotional scandals - footsie in the men's rooms, mistresses in South America - that end in tearful public apologies. Emotion.

Liberals on the other hand, tend toward financial scandals. Now what could be less emotional and more cold and calculating than William Jefferson storing his ill gotten dollars in the freezer for heaven's sakes?

I for one think a little emotional civil disobedience is in order. The powers that be don't seem to get it any other way. The worst penalty one might face is a disorderly conduct charge. A badge of honor in the right context.

Don't tell me you actually believe that they would "get it" with a little bit of civil disobedience. They'll never "get it".

Immie

Well friend, there are only 3 choices: Reform, revolution, or slavery. I'm a reformer first, a revolutionary 2nd, and I will die before being a slave so for me it's a simple matter of doing what I must; the consequences and odds against me be damned.

If the failure to audit the fed, por ejemplo, is any example then you're right, they'll never "get it" so we'll have to approach the problem differently until they do get it. I think they'll start to get it this November. Populism should incite FEAR in the government.

 

[Immanuel]

I for one think a little emotional civil disobedience is in order. The powers that be don't seem to get it any other way. The worst penalty one might face is a disorderly conduct charge. A badge of honor in the right context.

Don't tell me you actually believe that they would "get it" with a little bit of civil disobedience. They'll never "get it".

Immie

Well friend, there are only 3 choices: Reform, revolution, or slavery. I'm a reformer first, a revolutionary 2nd, and I will die before being a slave so for me it's a simple matter of doing what I must; the consequences and odds against me be damned.

If the failure to audit the fed, por ejemplo, is any example then you're right, they'll never "get it" so we'll have to approach the problem differently until they do get it. I think they'll start to get it this November. Populism should incite FEAR in the government.

I have absolutely zero confidence that any "reform" will begin in November.

At the most, we will exchange some Democrats in Congress with Republicans. That is not "reform". That is the same ole shit in a different outhouse.

Immie

 

[R.C. Christian]

Very creative...and quite the black helicopter thriller. The TRUTH is, we didn't know what that lunatic had. 12 years....COUNT THEM...12 years of dodging inspectors. How many times should we have let it continue to happen? What do you think was going on during all that time? Do you think that Saddam just ignored it and figured they'd never catch him so he just left the stuff there? No...it had to be moved. And it was.

When the unforeseen attack on NY and the Pentagon occurred in 2001, this country was already scared. Bush didn't do that...radical terrorists did. Mushroom clouds were not out of the realm of possibilities in anyone's mind at that point. If this operation could be planned, trained for and executed within our nations borders, then who is to say that something bigger and worse could not happen?

I believe the intelligence that the White House was operating on was a mixture of legitimate intel and some very bad intel. But the reality is, based on that information, our leadership, from the president on down to congress and the military experts agreed that there was enough of a concern that Iraq was a threat and that something had to be done. Bush didn't do that on his own either.

Now...if you want to bitch moan and complain about billions being spent and a president to blame look at how much debt we have now and where the debt level will be when this GOD AWFUL healthcare shit hits the fan...I wonder...feel like pissing on someone else's grave? Or are you just another Bush hater with no claim of fairness to fact?

I hate to burst your bubble but the idea to invade Iraq was preconceived as early as 98 and was considered a key foreign policy strategy in post cold war. Iraq, was the only country secular enough to establish a so called "democracy" in that area. It was the logical choice and the stepping stone to stabilization in the mideast and keeping the U.S. the ultimate power in a very uncertain post cold war world.

9-11 only helped reinforce public opinion by spreading fear and fermenting anger. In this case misled anger.

It is the ultimate irony that they went to Iraq to find so called "WMD" but then turned our own WMD in the form of white posphurus and MK 77 on the people they were supposedly liberating.

preconceived by who?

And you're going to have to PROVE that WP was used on civilians. Claims with no proof are of no use to me.

White phosphorus use in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"On November 15, 2005, Dept. of Defense spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Barry Venable confirmed to the BBC that white phosphorus had been used as an incendiary antipersonnel weapon in Fallujah"

 

[R.C. Christian]

Don't tell me you actually believe that they would "get it" with a little bit of civil disobedience. They'll never "get it".

Immie

Well friend, there are only 3 choices: Reform, revolution, or slavery. I'm a reformer first, a revolutionary 2nd, and I will die before being a slave so for me it's a simple matter of doing what I must; the consequences and odds against me be damned.

If the failure to audit the fed, por ejemplo, is any example then you're right, they'll never "get it" so we'll have to approach the problem differently until they do get it. I think they'll start to get it this November. Populism should incite FEAR in the government.

I have absolutely zero confidence that any "reform" will begin in November.

At the most, we will exchange some Democrats in Congress with Republicans. That is not "reform". That is the same ole shit in a different outhouse.

Immie

Well, as true as that may be it looks like reform is out of the question. So with that your left with slavery or revolution IMO. Indeed, substituting a new neocon or pandering liberal for the incumbent won't help anything.

 

[Coyote]

You may not be, but many, if not most, liberals are...as well as the vast majority of leftists.

hmmm....got any stats to show that "many", "most" and "vast majority"? How does that relate to the anger quotient of the non-liberals?

Personal observation, so feel free to immediately dismiss it.

But if you don't see it, it's because you don't WANT to see it.

Sure. This should be interesting.

Sure....

'You Lie!': Representative Wilson's Outburst - TIME - Joe Wilson got a tad emotional here....

Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck and O'really O'Reilly - all rightwing, rely on emotion to inflame their audiences and get their messages across.

Tea Partiers yelling down speakers at Town Hall meetings....ice queens or emotion-driven?

Yup...it's a veritable emotional roller coaster they're on right now, but I've a theory about that.

It comes down to repressive attitudes about sex and an unrealistic adherence to artificial family values. Ever notice the when it comes to scandals - 10 to 1, conservatives go with messy emotional scandals - footsie in the men's rooms, mistresses in South America - that end in tearful public apologies. Emotion.

Liberals on the other hand, tend toward financial scandals. Now what could be less emotional and more cold and calculating than William Jefferson storing his ill gotten dollars in the freezer for heaven's sakes?

Yes, the right has some emotional people. And the left has some logical people...somewhere, I guess.

hmmmm




LEFT........And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."......RIGHT

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Both failed to secure the border, basically slowly dripping our sovereignty to death. Thats my #1 issue with Bush.

Obama is the symbolic figure of the far left progressive movement. Why I dislike him would take a long, long thread. I can offer, but basically it comes down to the desire for America to remain the worlds lone superpower vs the desire for America to be brought into equality with the rest of the world. Obama represents one side of that, I wish for the other.

Bravo

 

[MIPS]

What did President Bush do to you that has made you guys so angry with him?

He touched me in my naughty place and bragged to Dark Lord Cheney about it , nuff said

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What did President Bush do to you that has made you guys so angry with him?

He touched me in my naughty place and bragged to Dark Lord Cheney about it , nuff said

and obama broke you down like an over and under shotgun

 

[MIPS]

What did President Bush do to you that has made you guys so angry with him?

He touched me in my naughty place and bragged to Dark Lord Cheney about it , nuff said

and obama broke you down like an over and under shotgun

Something like that, all I know was the experience was unpleasant.... however now that the tiger has been grasped by the tail, abused beyond tolerance and verbally insulted to boot, the claws are extended and the fangs are bared .....

 

[CurveLight]

preconceived by who? And you're going to have to PROVE that WP was used on civilians. Claims with no proof are of no use to me.

Are you fucking serious? WP was confirmed as being used five years ago and you're probably so unbelievably fucking retarded stoopid you'll claim they weren't used on civilians. Do you think WP has nano technology so it checks the identification of people before it burns the fuck out of them?

It's been a decade since the neocons published their plans to invade and occupy iraq. Before that it was the Iraq Liberation Act. It's also been several years since undisputable proof came out there was no wmd threat.

How in the hell do dumbasses like you exist?

 

[maineman]

The TRUTH is, we didn't know what that lunatic had.

I agree... glad you feel that way. You therefore MUST conclude that when team Bush repeatedly stated that "THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT SADDAM HAS STOCKPILES OF WMD'S" that statement WAS a lie

No...it had to be moved. And it was.

bolded statement a half baked opinion masquerading as a fact.

When the unforeseen attack on NY and the Pentagon occurred in 2001, this country was already scared. Bush didn't do that...radical terrorists did. Mushroom clouds were not out of the realm of possibilities in anyone's mind at that point. If this operation could be planned, trained for and executed within our nations borders, then who is to say that something bigger and worse could not happen?

I wasn't scared. I had served a tour of duty with the UN in the middle east... I had seen the face of radical islam up close. They worried me, but I was certainly not obsessed with the spectre of a mushroom cloud set off by terrorists. I read Collins and LaPierre's The Fifth Horseman nearly a guarter of a century ago... still didn't scare me. The conflation of the lies about WMD's AND the complete lie about a Saddam-AQ connection - which anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of wahabbism and baathism knows is utter fantasy - made the WMD bullshit so immediate and scary and Bush did that on purpose. OH GOSH..THE SCARY GUYS WHO ATTACKED US ON 9/11 ARE PROBABLY ON THEIR WAY TO ONE OF THOSE IRAQI WMD STOCKPILES THIS VERY MINUTE! MUSHROOM CLOUDS ARE GONNA START SHOWING UP ANY MINUTE! WE HAVE TO INVADE NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!! It was deceitful bullshit then and it still is.

I believe the intelligence that the White House was operating on was a mixture of legitimate intel and some very bad intel. But the reality is, based on that information, our leadership, from the president on down to congress and the military experts agreed that there was enough of a concern that Iraq was a threat and that something had to be done. Bush didn't do that on his own either.

Bullshit. Bush gave to order to invade, conquer and occupy Iraq entirely on his own.

Now...if you want to bitch moan and complain about billions being spent and a president to blame look at how much debt we have now and where the debt level will be when this GOD AWFUL healthcare shit hits the fan...I wonder...feel like pissing on someone else's grave? Or are you just another Bush hater with no claim of fairness to fact?

I don't have a problem with presidents spending money. I have a problem when presidents pour american money and american blood down a hole in the sand for NOTHING. If the healthcare law does not improve the healthcare of our population, I will be critical of Obama as well....but, unlike Bush, he did not LIE us into a bloody war.

 

[daveman]

hmmmm




LEFT........And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."......RIGHT

Do you always let Arlo Guthrie do your thinking for you?

 

[Yukon.]

People on the right fear change and they get angry when they see their country slipping away. Minorities are now in control of many US states, and above all a black man is President. This in itself drives Conservatives mad.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

People on the right fear change and they get angry when they see their country slipping away. Minorities are now in control of many US states, and above all a black man is President. This in itself drives Conservatives mad.

Really it drives conservatives mad? Let me introduce you to some Conservatives

 

[maineman]

People on the right fear change and they get angry when they see their country slipping away. Minorities are now in control of many US states, and above all a black man is President. This in itself drives Conservatives mad.

Really it drives conservatives mad? Let me introduce you to some Conservatives

six black guys, wow.

I am curious. What percentage of American conservatives do you think are black? And how do you think that percentage compares to the percentage of blacks in the population as a whole?

edit:

and as to your avatar:

The authenticity of the Mecklenburg Declaration has been disputed since it was first published in 1819, forty-four years after it was reputedly written. There is no conclusive evidence to confirm the original document's existence, and no reference to it has been found in extant newspapers from 1775. (from wiki)

 

[daveman]

People on the right fear change and they get angry when they see their country slipping away. Minorities are now in control of many US states, and above all a black man is President. This in itself drives Conservatives mad.

Your own bigotry is not proof of anyone else's.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

People on the right fear change and they get angry when they see their country slipping away. Minorities are now in control of many US states, and above all a black man is President. This in itself drives Conservatives mad.

Really it drives conservatives mad? Let me introduce you to some Conservatives

six black guys, wow.

I am curious. What percentage of American conservatives do you think are black? And how do you think that percentage compares to the percentage of blacks in the population as a whole?

edit:

and as to your avatar:

The authenticity of the Mecklenburg Declaration has been disputed since it was first published in 1819, forty-four years after it was reputedly written. There is no conclusive evidence to confirm the original document's existence, and no reference to it has been found in extant newspapers from 1775. (from wiki)

How many blacks are members of the coffee party?
Have you notice the state flag? it has 1775 something did happen on that date to have it attached to the state flag. The actual document was destroyed in a house fire or so has been said and Thomas Jefferson has mentioned it in his memoris.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tprqIVm0rs4]YouTube - Capt. Jack Rides Again[/ame]

The Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence is allegedly the first declaration of independence made in the Thirteen Colonies during the American Revolution. It was supposedly signed on May 20, 1775, at Charlotte, North Carolina, by a committee of citizens of Mecklenburg County, who declared independence from Great Britain after hearing of the battle of Lexington. If the story is true, the Mecklenburg Declaration preceded the United States Declaration of Independence by more than a year. The authenticity of the Mecklenburg Declaration has been disputed since it was first published in 1819, forty-four years after it was reputedly written. There is no conclusive evidence to confirm the original document's existence, and no reference to it has been found in extant newspapers from 1775.


The flag of North Carolina bears the date of the Mecklenburg Declaration: May 20, 1775.Many professional historians have maintained that the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence is an inaccurate rendering of an authentic document known as the Mecklenburg Resolves. The Mecklenburg Resolves were a set of radical resolutions passed on May 31, 1775, that fell short of an actual declaration of independence. Although published in newspapers in 1775, the text of the Mecklenburg Resolves was lost after the American Revolution and not rediscovered until 1838. Historians believe that the Mecklenburg Declaration was written in 1800 in an attempt to recreate the Mecklenburg Resolves from memory. According to this theory, the author of the Mecklenburg Declaration mistakenly believed that the Resolves had been a declaration of independence, and so he recreated the Resolves with language borrowed from the United States Declaration of Independence. Defenders of the Mecklenburg Declaration have argued that both the Mecklenburg Declaration and the Mecklenburg Resolves are authentic.

The early government of North Carolina, convinced that the Mecklenburg Declaration was genuine, maintained that North Carolinians were the first Americans to declare independence from Great Britain. As a result, both the seal and the flag of North Carolina bear the date of the declaration. A holiday commemorating the Mecklenburg Declaration, "Meck Dec Day", is celebrated on May 20 in North Carolina, although it is no longer an official holiday and does not attract the attention that it once did.

 

[rdean]

Bush crashed the economy, lied us to war, spied on us, subverted teh DOJ, distroyed our energy policy causing coal miners and oil riggers deaths, spilled oil with his lack of oversite and much more.

i suppose you idiots think he is some kind of fucking hero huh?

Bush spied on you? And destroyed the economy? And lied to you to war? You fought did you?

We've beaten the DOJ thing to death. Lawfully firing at will employees is not wrong.

And how has energy policy caused coal minors and oil riggers deaths? And are you either of them?

Seriously, why do you hate him? What did he do to you?

Bush did lie us into a war of choice. Now Iraq is Iran, a theocratic country by constitution that hates our guts who have enslaved their women and killed their Christians. I believe in a positive outlook, but there isn't one here.

The deregulation moved the mortgage market to a deregulated Wall Street who sold bogus mortgages as insured securities. When they collapsed, Wall Street cleaned up and cleaned out the world.

You can fire DOJ employees at the beginning of the presidential term. You can't do it in the middle of a term because they refuse to go after political opponents. It's both unethical and illegal.

Early in the Bush first term, the Republican controlled houses and the president deregulated both OSHA and the EPA and replaced the regulations with "Volentary Compliance". This has undoubtedly led to both the mine disaster and the oil gusher.

In fact, there is an even bigger disaster waiting in the wings. The Bush administration completely removed fracture drilling for natural gas from ALL EPA regulations. It is the only mining industry in the US that is completely unregulated. There have already been reports of contamination in 34 states. As soon as the chemicals used in fracturing reach the water supply of a major city, and it will happen, this will dwarf the gulf oil spill.

There was an exodus of reputable scientists from the Bush administration who complained that they were pressured to write reports that matched government policy. This was reported in nearly every science and engineering magazine for the entire 8 years of the Bush administration. It was even reported in "Popular Mechanics", hardly a liberal publication. Prove me wrong, I dare you.

There is nothing I've said here that hasn't been linked to over and over again.