Why should a hamburger flipper make the same as a highly skilled worker???

[healthmyths]

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

every attempt to implement capitalism has been flawed in some way.

You seem to want to forget America was built on a foundation of slavery and genocide of the Native Americans, but man, you can't stop talking about those Stalin Purges.

Before the "white man" the average life span of a Native American was between 21 and 37 years of age
http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/...
Roughly 57% of the children lived to age 15 and only ~36% made it to age 45.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/life-expe...

After the "white man" conquest today's Native American's life span: United States 76.9
Life Expectancy at Birth in years by Race Ethnicity The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

EVIL "white man" has kept the average Native American living over 2 times longer! BAD WHITE MAN!!!

 

[zeke]

EVIL "white man" has kept the average Native American living over 2 times longer! BAD WHITE MAN

It was really nice when those nice white men gave those Indians blankets with the small pox virus on them.
That worked out well. What was the life expectancy for an Indian with small pox?

 

[zeke]

EVIL "white man" has kept the average Native American living over 2 times longer! BAD WHITE MAN!!!

And introducing "fire water" to Indians. That was nice too. What is the rate of alcoholism among Indian tribes?
What is the life expectancy of an alcoholic Indian?

 

[healthmyths]

E="Toro, post: 11265228, member: 2926"]

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

every attempt to implement capitalism has been flawed in some way.

You seem to want to forget America was built on a foundation of slavery and genocide of the Native Americans, but man, you can't stop talking about those Stalin Purges.

America's greatest growth came AFTER slavery was abolished not before

The St Louis Fed had a site on this once. Estimated GDP per capita growth was just over 1% from 1790 to 1850, then accelerated after the Civil War, and averaged about 2% ever since.[/QUOTE]

Guesses... Where are your citations???

 

[Toro]

E="Toro, post: 11265228, member: 2926"]

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

every attempt to implement capitalism has been flawed in some way.

You seem to want to forget America was built on a foundation of slavery and genocide of the Native Americans, but man, you can't stop talking about those Stalin Purges.

America's greatest growth came AFTER slavery was abolished not before

The St Louis Fed had a site on this once. Estimated GDP per capita growth was just over 1% from 1790 to 1850, then accelerated after the Civil War, and averaged about 2% ever since.

Guesses... Where are your citations???

View attachment 40340[/QUOTE]

The St Louis Fed Fred web site had it. They probably still do somewhere.

Oh, and we haven't had 14% growth either.

 

[JoeB131]

Yet, flawed capitalism is the dominant socioeconomic model the world has chosen rather than failed flawed communism.

Well, that doesn't make it any less flawed. Not that we have "capitalism", anyway. You shitheads on Wall Street run the economy into the ground and then expect bailouts..

Where's a good guilotine when you need one?

 

[JoeB131]

EVIL "white man" has kept the average Native American living over 2 times longer! BAD WHITE MAN!!!

The population of hte Americas dropped by 75% after the first contact with Europeans. The reason why they introduced the African Slave Trade was that the native americans were dying from disease faster than they could be worked to death.

 

[Dragonlady]

FACTS...
How will you a small restaurant owner that has historically these fixed costs BEFORE the minimum wage increase make a profit on $500,000 gross sales?
A) 36% of $500,000 goes for labor or $180,000
B) 30% of $500,000 goes for food or $150,000
C) 30% of $500,000 goes for rent,utilities,taxes,licenses,permits,etc.. or $150,000
Those 3 add up to $480,000
Leaving the owner $ 20,000 profit.

Now assume the wages go to $15.00 an hour from the current $7.25 or double.
A) 36% at $7.25 now goes to say 50% or now $250,000 for labor costs
B) 30% for food, 30% for rent,etc. a total of $300,000
C) Total costs of labor,food,other $550,000
D) Gross revenue $500,000...
WHAT no profit... rather a loss the owner has to make up or hmmmm... go out of business!

Source for above percentages..
More Seattle restaurants close doors as 15 minimum wage approaches AgainstCronyCapitalism.org

This article had been thoroughly debunked as false. They didn't interview any of the restaurants which closed, none of which were closed because of increases in the minimum wage.

I would also say that your numbers are off. The point of the article is to prove that restaurants will all close with higher wages. Since they lied in one part of the article, I doubt the rest of it is based on facts.

 

[Mr Natural]

With the number of times the minimum wage has been raised since it's inception, it's a miracle we have any restaurants left at all.

 

[bripat9643]

Industrial revolution was happening regardless of who was in power. Bolsheviks killed Romanovs, then took the credit? Then they slaughtered everyone else who was in their way, won the WWII then killed some 20 mill of their own people. Thats OK, because they would starve to death anyways, right?

The Romanovs were a bunch of fuckups. They totally deserved to be shot.

Now, I don't endorse or condemn the Bolsheviks, but the reality is, they did make the Soviet Union a major power. Then it failed for the same reason all empires fail, eventually.

Yeah, you did endorse the Bolsheviks. You also endorsed the murder of an entire family.

What a fucking prick.

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

every attempt to implement capitalism has been flawed in some way.

You seem to want to forget America was built on a foundation of slavery and genocide of the Native Americans, but man, you can't stop talking about those Stalin Purges.

The "flaws" of capitalism haven't included gulags, mass murder or starvation. In fact, all the flaws are the result of creeps like you trying to push it towards socialism.

 

[Ame®icano]

Under capitalism, the laborer cannot receive what he is worth, and usually way less.

While in communism, they're get what they're worth, they just have nothing to buy with it.

Btw, you never replied to me in other thread... wonder why.

Which reply did I miss? The USSR, cuba, they are not communist in any way, never were, they were applying a flawed theory. Oh yeah, tell me all about the paris commune, revolutionary catalonia, the free territories of ukraine..

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

every attempt to implement capitalism has been flawed in some way.

You seem to want to forget America was built on a foundation of slavery and genocide of the Native Americans, but man, you can't stop talking about those Stalin Purges.

Yet, flawed capitalism is the dominant socioeconomic model the world has chosen rather than failed flawed communism.

Social democracy is the dominant socioeconomic model. Pure capitalism results in great poverty and great wealth and nothing in between. And it relies on brutality stifling the leftists in pretty much the same way as Stalin ended right wing opposition in Russia.

The closest thing we've seen to pure capitalism is Chile in the 1970's. One of the most repressive dictatorships of the last century.

 

[Ame®icano]

The Romanovs were a bunch of fuckups. They totally deserved to be shot.

Now, I don't endorse or condemn the Bolsheviks, but the reality is, they did make the Soviet Union a major power. Then it failed for the same reason all empires fail, eventually.

Marx believed that all workers would one day rise up against the system in revolution. This never happened, and so communism was forced upon people instead of chosen by them. Sheer power ruled half of the post WWII Europe and not by people choice. Bolshevik way didn't work, now we have menshevik pushing for it slowly, thru legislation.

 

[Dragonlady]

The "flaws" of capitalism haven't included gulags, mass murder or starvation. In fact, all the flaws are the result of creeps like you trying to push it towards socialism.

Yeah they have. Chile in the 1970's: they rounded up all of the lawyers, university professors and other leftists, took them to a soccer stadium and shot them. Thousands of people were killed in the centre of the capital.

In Argentina people were "disappeared". They would be picked up off the streets in unmarked cars and never seen again. Argentines still hate Ford, who supplied the cars to the regime. It's estimated that 30,000 people were murdered.

 

[Mr Natural]

The "flaws" of capitalism haven't included gulags, mass murder or starvation. In fact, all the flaws are the result of creeps like you trying to push it towards socialism.

The enslavement of Africans was not a "flaw"?

No, of course not, it was just a "good" business decision.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Just how easy is it for someone to simply "walk off the street" and fill your position? How vulnerable and replaceable are you? How much skills and knowledge have you obtained to be able to effectively perform at your job? Are you willing to work late, way past your convenient 8 hour shift, if deadlines and necessity of your job requires it?

These are the questions that need to dictate the potential of how much you earn. Simply demanding a greater salary or paycheck out of "jealousy" over what someone else earns, just shows how much effort and education some people are willing to invest to advance themselves towards a better way of life.

Your pay scale should be relative to the value of the work you do. How much can your employer sell your work for versus the total cost of production, including your labor? If you make hamburgers which sell for an average of $3.00 each, and you can make 100 burgers in an hour, the value of your work is $300.00 per hour. There are other costs associated with the production of the burgers, such as the cost of the ingredients and packaging, lease payments for the buildings, equipment costs, advertising and promotion, etc. If you are paid minimum wage, you are paid 7 cents for each burger you make. If your wages were to increase to $10.00 per hour, you would be receiving 10 cents for each burger you make.

It shouldn't matter how many others people would be willing to do your job for less, or the skill level required to do the work, what should matter is the value of your work. When you produce a product for sale, such as making burgers, it's relatively easy to calculate the value of your work. What we have seen is that while the retail price of the burgers has risen, as have all of the other costs associated with their production and sale have risen, the wages of the people making the burgers has not. Management pay has risen, and executive pay has skyrocketed, although management and executives aren't being more massively more productive than in the past, but the frontline workers who make the products sold, have not. It's not jealousy or envy for workers to ask that their wages go up as well.

Your worth or value is based on how replaceable you are, which is why people "invest" in a college education or an additional trade skill for themselves. This is the standard by which pay scale should be derived. If everyone thought they simply should be paid by what they "feel" they are worth, everyone can have their own perception of worry without any standard to go by. How much is a college degree worth to you? How much value is in a specified skill or management training? By your definition these hold not additional value or incentive but it's based upon production alone ... completely ludicrous. If you want to earn more, learn a skill, INVEST in yourself instead of complaining because it's far earlier not to take that time to do so. You earn based on your knowledge, education, and specialty ... as it should be. Doctors receive an extensive long tiring education, work long hours, in highly stressful environment ... THEY are the workers that deserve a higher pay far above a burger flipper. What stress is involved in putting a burger between two buns? I mean, let's be realistic here and do the comparison.

 

[Ame®icano]

Social democracy is the dominant socioeconomic model. Pure capitalism results in great poverty and great wealth and nothing in between. And it relies on brutality stifling the leftists in pretty much the same way as Stalin ended right wing opposition in Russia.

The closest thing we've seen to pure capitalism is Chile in the 1970's. One of the most repressive dictatorships of the last century.

Chile was communist since revolution of 1964. Then came fascism, that ended with Pinochet in 1990. Chile had enough communism and fascism so they abandoned both in favor of more capitalist, free market system. Venezuela was going through similar changes back in 60s, and kept their communist course, and look where they are now.

 

[Ame®icano]

The "flaws" of capitalism haven't included gulags, mass murder or starvation. In fact, all the flaws are the result of creeps like you trying to push it towards socialism.

The enslavement of Africans was not a "flaw"?

No, of course not, it was just a "good" business decision.

Africans were enslaved way before 1776 America.

 

[Ame®icano]

EVIL "white man" has kept the average Native American living over 2 times longer! BAD WHITE MAN!!!

And introducing "fire water" to Indians. That was nice too. What is the rate of alcoholism among Indian tribes?
What is the life expectancy of an alcoholic Indian?

What's your point?