Why should a hamburger flipper make the same as a highly skilled worker???

[Dragonlady]

Value of fast food "frontline workers" did not increase. It remained the same.

Those are not career jobs where people stay on forever. There is no investment in such workers that pays off in extended period of time. They come without skills, they are meant to stay for some time and leave, pretty much without skills, then get replaced with people without skills. However, those who show some loyalty and decide to stick around, they usually climb the ladder, get raises and promotions.

The value of the front line worker DID in fact increase, just like the rent, the utilities, the cost of the materials, otherwise profits would not have increased. Profits in the fast food industry are at a record high. The difference is that everyone who provided goods or services to the fast food restaurant saw an increase in what they were paid except the frontline worker. Their share of the increase in sales went to the managers and the executives.

American corporations are recording record profits. And they're doing so on the backs of their frontline workers who haven't had a real raise in 20 years.

 

[Marxist]

The USSR tried to follow Marxism-Leninism, but everyone began starving to death. Following Marxism-Leninism is like drawing a triangle with 4 sides.

Actually, the USSR rose from a backward ass country under the Tsars to winning WWII and being a dominant power for nearly half a century.

You do realize they overthrew the Tsar for a reason, right?

Industrial revolution was happening regardless of who was in power. Bolsheviks killed Romanovs, then took the credit? Then they slaughtered everyone else who was in their way, won the WWII then killed some 20 mill of their own people. Thats OK, because they would starve to death anyways, right?

I don't really deal with defending the USSR any more after spending the past couple of months researching marxist-leninism, the theories following, the failure of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" I now call myself an anarcho communist, I agree, the bolsheviks did horrible things, but he is correct about the USSR rising from a backwards country.

 

[Ame®icano]

No one ever tried "Communism". They had things they called "Communism".

Now, there are good reasons why Communism wouldn't work, but those things didn't happen in various countries that tried something they called "Communism".

 

[Marxist]

No one ever tried "Communism". They had things they called "Communism".

Now, there are good reasons why Communism wouldn't work, but those things didn't happen in various countries that tried something they called "Communism".

They were simply communist by claim, they followed horribly flawed theories, and fortunately, actual socialism and anarcho-communism, essentially, has existed, although it was crushed by people following the bolsheviks..

 

[Ame®icano]

I don't really deal with defending the USSR any more after spending the past couple of months researching marxist-leninism, the theories following, the failure of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" I now call myself an anarcho communist, I agree, the bolsheviks did horrible things, but he is correct about the USSR rising from a backwards country.

I could see you're bit excited about communism, and thats kinda normal after reading few books or meeting leftie professors. Just ask our dear leader... Some people got excited after reading Mein Kempf, but excitement fades away when it come to edgy stuff.

 

[Marxist]

I don't really deal with defending the USSR any more after spending the past couple of months researching marxist-leninism, the theories following, the failure of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" I now call myself an anarcho communist, I agree, the bolsheviks did horrible things, but he is correct about the USSR rising from a backwards country.

I could see you're bit excited about communism, and thats kinda normal after reading few books or meeting leftie professors. Just ask our dear leader... Some people got excited after reading Mein Kempf, but excitement fades away when it come to edgy stuff.

I'm a anarchist communist, if you want to learn what that is, and how anarchists hate Lenin/stalin/mao, who I was stupid enough to support before being introduced to anarchism... Our deal leader? Obama? He's not a communist or socialist.

 

[Spare_change]

I don't really deal with defending the USSR any more after spending the past couple of months researching marxist-leninism, the theories following, the failure of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" I now call myself an anarcho communist, I agree, the bolsheviks did horrible things, but he is correct about the USSR rising from a backwards country.

I could see you're bit excited about communism, and thats kinda normal after reading few books or meeting leftie professors. Just ask our dear leader... Some people got excited after reading Mein Kempf, but excitement fades away when it come to edgy stuff.

I'm a anarchist communist, if you want to learn what that is, and how anarchists hate Lenin/stalin/mao, who I was stupid enough to support before being introduced to anarchism... Our deal leader? Obama? He's not a communist or socialist.

Communism, even as you describe it, is a pipe dream. It can not work, and it will never work for one simple reason - the human condition. All people want more than everybody else - all people are willing to screw somebody over to get more than everybody else - no one is willing to work so somebody else can benefit.

All the political hoohah about communism is simply that ... a pipe dream.

 

[Skull Pilot]

When I used to work for people the only thing I ever cared about was moving up. I never fell into the habits of people who worked a job for years and never moved up. You know like you

wouldn't know. I've moved up in every job I've had. And I did it without pissing off my coworkers to the point where they hated me. Probably because I'd always take the time to help them and resolved problems.

In short, I don't live by "I've got mine, fuck you".

I never pissed any co worker off I just came to work to do my job and never cared what the other people did

If someone didn't like the fact that I outperformed them that's their problem not mine

 

[Toro]

Then collapsed.

And all the other communist countries that tried it ditched it, except two. And one of those is starting to ditch it now.

No one ever tried "Communism". They had things they called "Communism".

Now, there are good reasons why Communism wouldn't work, but those things didn't happen in various countries that tried something they called "Communism".

If thats the case, we've never tried capitalism.

So stop bitching about capitalism.

 

[Toro]

Under capitalism, the laborer cannot receive what he is worth, and usually way less.

While in communism, they're get what they're worth, they just have nothing to buy with it.

Btw, you never replied to me in other thread... wonder why.

Which reply did I miss? The USSR, cuba, they are not communist in any way, never were, they were applying a flawed theory. Oh yeah, tell me all about the paris commune, revolutionary catalonia, the free territories of ukraine..

Nobody cares about a couple hundred hippies living on a commune for a year and a half a century ago.

 

[Toro]

No one ever tried "Communism". They had things they called "Communism".

Now, there are good reasons why Communism wouldn't work, but those things didn't happen in various countries that tried something they called "Communism".

Its the argument of ideologues rationalizing the failure of their ideology.

 

[healthmyths]

FACTS...
How will you a small restaurant owner that has historically these fixed costs BEFORE the minimum wage increase make a profit on $500,000 gross sales?
A) 36% of $500,000 goes for labor or $180,000
B) 30% of $500,000 goes for food or $150,000
C) 30% of $500,000 goes for rent,utilities,taxes,licenses,permits,etc.. or $150,000
Those 3 add up to $480,000
Leaving the owner $ 20,000 profit.

Now assume the wages go to $15.00 an hour from the current $7.25 or double.
A) 36% at $7.25 now goes to say 50% or now $250,000 for labor costs
B) 30% for food, 30% for rent,etc. a total of $300,000
C) Total costs of labor,food,other $550,000
D) Gross revenue $500,000...
WHAT no profit... rather a loss the owner has to make up or hmmmm... go out of business!

Source for above percentages..
More Seattle restaurants close doors as 15 minimum wage approaches AgainstCronyCapitalism.org

 

[bripat9643]

Under capitalism, the laborer cannot receive what he is worth, and usually way less.

While in communism, they're get what they're worth, they just have nothing to buy with it.

Btw, you never replied to me in other thread... wonder why.

Which reply did I miss? The USSR, cuba, they are not communist in any way, never were, they were applying a flawed theory. Oh yeah, tell me all about the paris commune, revolutionary catalonia, the free territories of ukraine..

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

 

[bripat9643]

The USSR tried to follow Marxism-Leninism, but everyone began starving to death. Following Marxism-Leninism is like drawing a triangle with 4 sides.

Actually, the USSR rose from a backward ass country under the Tsars to winning WWII and being a dominant power for nearly half a century.

You do realize they overthrew the Tsar for a reason, right?

Russia was only "backwards" compared to capitalist countries. In reality it was industrializing rapidly. The USSR didn't "win" WW II either. It survived as a result of the incredible outpouring of war material it received from the USA. In the process of making the USSR a "dominant power," Stalin killed 60 million people. Is that really a model you want to emulate?

 

[JoeB131]

Industrial revolution was happening regardless of who was in power. Bolsheviks killed Romanovs, then took the credit? Then they slaughtered everyone else who was in their way, won the WWII then killed some 20 mill of their own people. Thats OK, because they would starve to death anyways, right?

The Romanovs were a bunch of fuckups. They totally deserved to be shot.

Now, I don't endorse or condemn the Bolsheviks, but the reality is, they did make the Soviet Union a major power. Then it failed for the same reason all empires fail, eventually.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

every attempt to implement capitalism has been flawed in some way.

You seem to want to forget America was built on a foundation of slavery and genocide of the Native Americans, but man, you can't stop talking about those Stalin Purges.

 

[Toro]

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

every attempt to implement capitalism has been flawed in some way.

You seem to want to forget America was built on a foundation of slavery and genocide of the Native Americans, but man, you can't stop talking about those Stalin Purges.

Yet, flawed capitalism is the dominant socioeconomic model the world has chosen rather than failed flawed communism.

 

[Skull Pilot]

FACTS...
How will you a small restaurant owner that has historically these fixed costs BEFORE the minimum wage increase make a profit on $500,000 gross sales?
A) 36% of $500,000 goes for labor or $180,000
B) 30% of $500,000 goes for food or $150,000
C) 30% of $500,000 goes for rent,utilities,taxes,licenses,permits,etc.. or $150,000
Those 3 add up to $480,000
Leaving the owner $ 20,000 profit.

Now assume the wages go to $15.00 an hour from the current $7.25 or double.
A) 36% at $7.25 now goes to say 50% or now $250,000 for labor costs
B) 30% for food, 30% for rent,etc. a total of $300,000
C) Total costs of labor,food,other $550,000
D) Gross revenue $500,000...
WHAT no profit... rather a loss the owner has to make up or hmmmm... go out of business!

Source for above percentages..
More Seattle restaurants close doors as 15 minimum wage approaches AgainstCronyCapitalism.org

You forgot to take into account that all his costs will go up since his suppliers will also have to raise their prices to cover their increased labor costs.

It is a true domino effect

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

every attempt to implement capitalism has been flawed in some way.

You seem to want to forget America was built on a foundation of slavery and genocide of the Native Americans, but man, you can't stop talking about those Stalin Purges.

America's greatest growth came AFTER slavery was abolished not before

 

[Toro]

Yeah, we know, every attempt to implement communism is flawed in some way. Of course, every attempt to draw a triangle with four sides is also "flawed." Has anyone ever draw one?

I rest my case.

every attempt to implement capitalism has been flawed in some way.

You seem to want to forget America was built on a foundation of slavery and genocide of the Native Americans, but man, you can't stop talking about those Stalin Purges.

America's greatest growth came AFTER slavery was abolished not before

The St Louis Fed had a site on this once. Estimated GDP per capita growth was just over 1% from 1790 to 1850, then accelerated after the Civil War, and averaged about 2% ever since.