Why racism?

[Indofred]

I've put this in clean debate because I'm looking for serious answers, not attacks, swearing, insults and whatever else.

I have long been of the opinion, many who hate (Jew hate, Muslim hate, black hate, white hate or whatever), have serious problems in thier own lives and are looking for someone to vent their self hate on.

In this case, an extreme right winger who turned out to hate because he was gay.

BBC News - Nicky Crane: The secret double life of a gay neo-Nazi

But if the neo-Nazi world would have abhorred his sexuality, the vast majority of London's gay scene would have been equally horrified to learn that he was a neo-Nazi.

In this one, Malaysia's nasty terrorist, Noordin Top, was also gay, his sodomy noticed at his autopsy.

Terrorist Noordin M Top Was Sodomized: Indonesian Forensic Expert - The Jakarta Globe

The question is, is this a common thing and is their hate (Whatever group) caused by self hate and wanting to vent the anger because they can't cope with who they are, perhaps gay, maybe something else they loath?

Opinions and ideas?

 

[editec]

There's a whole lotta self loathing in the homo community, that's bloody obvious.


And given the families and societies that many gays come from that's hardy surprising.

Children are taught to hate and fear homosexuality long before they realize they are being taught to hate and fear their own natures.

 

[Indofred]

There may well be but this isn't anti gay or anti anything else.
Gay is only mentioned because these cases show total contrast to the public views of the people in question.

 

[Jos]

There is an old adage, attributed to Abraham Lincoln, that goes something like this: "If you were born where they were born and you were taught what they were taught, you'd believe what they believe". I dare say this simple dictum provides more insight into the tragic, convoluted conflict between Israelis and Palestinians than an entire conference of Middle East experts.

While falling short of a complete general theory, it goes some way, I would suggest, to explain not just what we believe but why we believe it. Why we take up certain positions and hold them so fervently. Why Jews, generally speaking, have historically supported Israel and seen the Palestinians as an irritant or worse. Why Arabs and Muslims, as a rule, have supported the Palestinian cause and seen Israel as an interloper or worse. And why both sides have been equally certain they were right.

What would we believe - each of us - if we hailed from the other side of the track or river or mountain? What 'facts' would we then be predisposed to accept as self-evident truths and which ones, by contrast, would we be inclined summarily to dismiss as propaganda lies? And what of the dedicated fanatics among us? Would their support of the opposing cause be any less partisan or extreme or self-righteous if they happened to be born on the other side of the mirror?

None of this is to suggest that facts are merely subjective. Nor that there are not genuine questions of historical interpretation, justice, legality or human rights. Of course there are. What is suggested, though, is that if progress is ever to be made on resolving this conflict, there is a vital need to think outside of our boxes.

We are trapped in and by our own narratives and we devote enormous resources to justifying and reinforcing our own perspectives and simultaneously to belittling or ridiculing the other's. This is not the prerogative of any one side. All sides do it. Self-appointed experts churn out - and their followers dutifully cite - reams of supposedly scholarly research that 'prove' the non-authenticity of the people-hood of the other and the non-validity of their cherished claims.

If you were born where they were born - Tony Klug

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I've put this in clean debate because I'm looking for serious answers, not attacks, swearing, insults and whatever else.

I have long been of the opinion, many who hate (Jew hate, Muslim hate, black hate, white hate or whatever), have serious problems in thier own lives and are looking for someone to vent their self hate on.

In this case, an extreme right winger who turned out to hate because he was gay.

BBC News - Nicky Crane: The secret double life of a gay neo-Nazi

But if the neo-Nazi world would have abhorred his sexuality, the vast majority of London's gay scene would have been equally horrified to learn that he was a neo-Nazi.

In this one, Malaysia's nasty terrorist, Noordin Top, was also gay, his sodomy noticed at his autopsy.

Terrorist Noordin M Top Was Sodomized: Indonesian Forensic Expert - The Jakarta Globe

The question is, is this a common thing and is their hate (Whatever group) caused by self hate and wanting to vent the anger because they can't cope with who they are, perhaps gay, maybe something else they loath?

Opinions and ideas?

Not liking a group of people for whatever reason doesn't mean you hate those people.

For example, I think homosexuality is a sin and those that choose such a lifestyle are people I do not care to associate myself with. Nor do I care to associate with thieves, liars, drug addicts, liberals....etc.. it has nothing to do with hate.

 

[oldfart]

Not liking a group of people for whatever reason doesn't mean you hate those people.

For example, I think homosexuality is a sin and those that choose such a lifestyle are people I do not care to associate myself with. Nor do I care to associate with thieves, liars, drug addicts, liberals....etc.. it has nothing to do with hate.

As much as it pains me, I have to agree with Lonestar. Antipathy does not rise to the level of hate. The most common denominator I see in people who are consumed with hate is that they have poor coping skills. Shit happens to everyone, but how much shit you go through doesn't seem to correlate with how well you handle it. Poor coping skills seems to lead often to conspiracy theories and and scapegoating; a person's failure is not the result of their decisions but of the malevolent "others" who are out to get them. Haters tend to be paranoid.

Of course I'm not talking about anyone we know on this board........

 

[Shrimpbox]

Jos I believe you are being sincere but I respectfully suggest your post is psycho babble. By your calculations there are no universal truths or parameters for human conduct because the guy or gal on the other side of the mirror might see it differently. Secondly your examples seem to be of extremists at both ends of the spectrum. Finally while history may not back me up on this I still feel that reason will triumph over passion in the long run.there are a whole lot of people in the world and making judgements based on the the wackos perverts, and lost children that are always in the news is selling the human race short

 

[FA_Q2]

People tend to hate what is different and use that as a scapegoat for their woes. As Oldfart pointed out, it’s more about blaming your problems on something other than you and people that are different than you are happen to be the natural choice.

It should be somewhat obvious in the language used – they took our jobs etc…

 

[Asclepias]

Hate is about fear nothing more. You fear what you don't know or understand. Its a coping mechanism given to us by mother nature. If I represent (specifically or generally) a threat to your way of life eventually you will find a reason to hate me. I disagree that its about blaming your problems on anyone. Thats just a rationalization for the hate.

 

[Sunni Man]

Hate does not necessarily translate into fear......nor does fear automatically become hate.

Example: I personally don't like snakes.

But that doesn't mean I hate or fear them.


I detest homosexuality because it's a disruptive influence on society and families.

But I don't fear or hate homos.

Because in my opinion they are mentally ill people who need psychological help. ......

 

[Asclepias]

Hate does not necessarily translate into fear......nor does fear automatically become hate.

Example: I personally don't like snakes.

But that doesn't mean I hate or fear them.


I detest homosexuality because it's a disruptive influence on society and families.

But I don't fear or hate homos.

Because in my opinion they are mentally ill people who need psychological help. ......

Your first point was all over the place what does like have to do with hate and fear?

if you didnt hate or fear homosexuals you would not detest them. You would feel about them like you do snakes.

 

[AquaAthena]

I've put this in clean debate because I'm looking for serious answers, not attacks, swearing, insults and whatever else.

I have long been of the opinion, many who hate (Jew hate, Muslim hate, black hate, white hate or whatever), have serious problems in thier own lives and are looking for someone to vent their self hate on.

In this case, an extreme right winger who turned out to hate because he was gay.

BBC News - Nicky Crane: The secret double life of a gay neo-Nazi

But if the neo-Nazi world would have abhorred his sexuality, the vast majority of London's gay scene would have been equally horrified to learn that he was a neo-Nazi.

In this one, Malaysia's nasty terrorist, Noordin Top, was also gay, his sodomy noticed at his autopsy.

Terrorist Noordin M Top Was Sodomized: Indonesian Forensic Expert - The Jakarta Globe

The question is, is this a common thing and is their hate (Whatever group) caused by self hate and wanting to vent the anger because they can't cope with who they are, perhaps gay, maybe something else they loath?

Opinions and ideas?

I agree, the haters are people who have terrible lives and feel resentment towards anyone having contended ones. The haters really hate themselves and express that through jealousy and envy of others, and want to see them hurt in anyway. They are the fringe elements in society and they only way they can smile is to see others in pain.

 

[Katzndogz]

Hate does not necessarily translate into fear......nor does fear automatically become hate.

Example: I personally don't like snakes.

But that doesn't mean I hate or fear them.


I detest homosexuality because it's a disruptive influence on society and families.

But I don't fear or hate homos.

Because in my opinion they are mentally ill people who need psychological help. ......

Your first point was all over the place what does like have to do with hate and fear?

if you didnt hate or fear homosexuals you would not detest them. You would feel about them like you do snakes.

Snakes don't impose themselves on anything. There is no snake agenda in public schools to make children more snake friendly. Snakes aren't demanding to march in parades, or have celebrations like the Folsom Street Fair.

As compared to homosexuals, snakes make better people.

 

[Asclepias]

Hate does not necessarily translate into fear......nor does fear automatically become hate.

Example: I personally don't like snakes.

But that doesn't mean I hate or fear them.


I detest homosexuality because it's a disruptive influence on society and families.

But I don't fear or hate homos.

Because in my opinion they are mentally ill people who need psychological help. ......

Your first point was all over the place what does like have to do with hate and fear?

if you didnt hate or fear homosexuals you would not detest them. You would feel about them like you do snakes.

Snakes don't impose themselves on anything. There is no snake agenda in public schools to make children more snake friendly. Snakes aren't demanding to march in parades, or have celebrations like the Folsom Street Fair.

As compared to homosexuals, snakes make better people.

Thats where you are confused. Snakes are not people. Homosexuals are. Its ok that you fear them. Just admit it to yourself and your life will be better eventually.

 

[Katzndogz]

I've put this in clean debate because I'm looking for serious answers, not attacks, swearing, insults and whatever else.

I have long been of the opinion, many who hate (Jew hate, Muslim hate, black hate, white hate or whatever), have serious problems in thier own lives and are looking for someone to vent their self hate on.

In this case, an extreme right winger who turned out to hate because he was gay.

BBC News - Nicky Crane: The secret double life of a gay neo-Nazi

But if the neo-Nazi world would have abhorred his sexuality, the vast majority of London's gay scene would have been equally horrified to learn that he was a neo-Nazi.

In this one, Malaysia's nasty terrorist, Noordin Top, was also gay, his sodomy noticed at his autopsy.

Terrorist Noordin M Top Was Sodomized: Indonesian Forensic Expert - The Jakarta Globe

The question is, is this a common thing and is their hate (Whatever group) caused by self hate and wanting to vent the anger because they can't cope with who they are, perhaps gay, maybe something else they loath?

Opinions and ideas?

It doesn't say that Noordin M was gay, it said he might have been raped as a child. Which may have been why he hated gays. If a gay guy raped you as a child you might not be kindly disposed to them either.

 

[Katzndogz]

Your first point was all over the place what does like have to do with hate and fear?

if you didnt hate or fear homosexuals you would not detest them. You would feel about them like you do snakes.

Snakes don't impose themselves on anything. There is no snake agenda in public schools to make children more snake friendly. Snakes aren't demanding to march in parades, or have celebrations like the Folsom Street Fair.

As compared to homosexuals, snakes make better people.

Thats where you are confused. Snakes are not people. Homosexuals are. Its ok that you fear them. Just admit it to yourself and your life will be better eventually.

Oh heavens I don't hate gays. Unless they stick their genitals in my face screaming "Love ME" I don't even think about them. I certainly would not make a purchasing decision based on whether the proprietor was gay friendly. Homosexuals are just other individuals who go about their daily lives doing whatever it is that serves their own best interests. Then for whatever reason, they decide to step out of their personal lives and tell me what to do and what is going to serve my best interests.

What I do object to are the snarky methods of forcing themselves on me every time I turn around. Demanding that I reach from tolerance to acceptance under threat of some kind of punishment is a form of rape. It is demanding that I allow them to intrude upon my personal space. Which is no different that some guy holding a knife to my throat telling me I had to spread my legs. Not only accept his penetration, but pretend I enjoy it and wanted it all along.

Nothing gave me greater pleasure than to tell that lesbian couple "You don't get to tell me what to do". Then have the judge tell them that too.

 

[jwoodie]

I've put this in clean debate because I'm looking for serious answers, not attacks, swearing, insults and whatever else.

I have long been of the opinion, many who hate (Jew hate, Muslim hate, black hate, white hate or whatever), have serious problems in thier own lives and are looking for someone to vent their self hate on.

In this case, an extreme right winger who turned out to hate because he was gay.

BBC News - Nicky Crane: The secret double life of a gay neo-Nazi

But if the neo-Nazi world would have abhorred his sexuality, the vast majority of London's gay scene would have been equally horrified to learn that he was a neo-Nazi.

In this one, Malaysia's nasty terrorist, Noordin Top, was also gay, his sodomy noticed at his autopsy.

Terrorist Noordin M Top Was Sodomized: Indonesian Forensic Expert - The Jakarta Globe

The question is, is this a common thing and is their hate (Whatever group) caused by self hate and wanting to vent the anger because they can't cope with who they are, perhaps gay, maybe something else they loath?

Opinions and ideas?

I assume that you exempt yourself from "hate" while applying that term to everyone else with whom you disagree? Adding "racism" is always a nice touch...

 

[Publius1787]

I've put this in clean debate because I'm looking for serious answers, not attacks, swearing, insults and whatever else.

I have long been of the opinion, many who hate (Jew hate, Muslim hate, black hate, white hate or whatever), have serious problems in thier own lives and are looking for someone to vent their self hate on.

In this case, an extreme right winger who turned out to hate because he was gay.

BBC News - Nicky Crane: The secret double life of a gay neo-Nazi

But if the neo-Nazi world would have abhorred his sexuality, the vast majority of London's gay scene would have been equally horrified to learn that he was a neo-Nazi.

In this one, Malaysia's nasty terrorist, Noordin Top, was also gay, his sodomy noticed at his autopsy.

Terrorist Noordin M Top Was Sodomized: Indonesian Forensic Expert - The Jakarta Globe

The question is, is this a common thing and is their hate (Whatever group) caused by self hate and wanting to vent the anger because they can't cope with who they are, perhaps gay, maybe something else they loath?

Opinions and ideas?

I don't think racism exists. When I think I see "a racist" what I actually see is someone discriminating against a culture, not a race. Think of all the racist jokes you've heard in your life time. Race or perceived culture? think of all the stereotypes. Race or perceived culture?

There are two implications of line of thinking. 1) You deny victim status to a minority group, and thereby, rob them of the ability to call you a racist 2) It opens dialogue for legitimate cultural criticism.

Racists believe in genetic superiority. Most people we think are racists are therefore not.

 

[Indofred]

I've put this in clean debate because I'm looking for serious answers, not attacks, swearing, insults and whatever else.

I have long been of the opinion, many who hate (Jew hate, Muslim hate, black hate, white hate or whatever), have serious problems in thier own lives and are looking for someone to vent their self hate on.

In this case, an extreme right winger who turned out to hate because he was gay.

BBC News - Nicky Crane: The secret double life of a gay neo-Nazi

But if the neo-Nazi world would have abhorred his sexuality, the vast majority of London's gay scene would have been equally horrified to learn that he was a neo-Nazi.

In this one, Malaysia's nasty terrorist, Noordin Top, was also gay, his sodomy noticed at his autopsy.

Terrorist Noordin M Top Was Sodomized: Indonesian Forensic Expert - The Jakarta Globe

The question is, is this a common thing and is their hate (Whatever group) caused by self hate and wanting to vent the anger because they can't cope with who they are, perhaps gay, maybe something else they loath?

Opinions and ideas?

I assume that you exempt yourself from "hate" while applying that term to everyone else with whom you disagree? Adding "racism" is always a nice touch...

I don't hate anyone.

 

[Black_Man1]

Publius says "I don't racism exists."



(facepalm)