why not make the minimum wage $30 an hour?

[LOki]

So there was no "spike"? Why must there be a "spike" when minimum wages are applied gradually? Does your link demonstrate that there was no inflation while minimum wage rates were increasing?

Sure. Other price fixing and money printing ponzi schemes have the same effect... for the same reasons.

What could your point possibly be? That minimum wage is somehow magically exempt from the well established principles of economics?

Folks who advocate for a minimum wage. What else could it possibly mean?

Thanks for sharing.

And you're going to tell me that the OBVIOUS devaluing effect that minimum wage law must NECESSARILY have on wages has no role what-so-ever to play in that. Right?

Well, maybe if work that was worth ony $1/hr (but still costs minimum wage) wasn't being subsidized by work worth more than minimum wage, perhaps wages would not be so persistently flat.

Artificially devaluing the rewards for productive capacity (by artificially making $1.00/hr worth of work pay any amount more, say $15.00/hr, for instance) requires more money to be printed because buyers and sellers still know what shit is worth regardless of what the government says about the dollars. Printing more money, without also increasing productivity must lead inevitably to inflation. It does so because there is just more money around--printing new money is not the same thing as creating new wealth.

Introducing all that new money into the economy will not make every citizen more wealthy--they will just have more money. Having more money is of little consolation when it takes twice your daily wages to get a day's worth of food.

No. It really doesn't. It would make your point, if you were telling me we DON'T need to increase the minimum wage (yet again) because it has a history of being so effective.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I appreciate your response. It was well thought out.
However, your oratory was basically conjecture. You lacked lacked real-time evidence to back yourself up.
You didn't attempt to look into my links, you assumed and took it from there.
Regarding the graph, you basically discarded the evidence tying in flat wage growth and the remarkable coincidence that was clearly mirrored by the length of the recoveries when compared with similar downturns prior to the flat wage growth phenomenon.
Thanks again for your input.

I looked into your links. They really don't cover you as well as you hoped.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I thought the links regarding the minimum wage timeframes, the CPI timeframes and the unemployment rates by timeframe were as accurate as one can find. It isn't hard al all to figure out .
Regarding what workers are paid, based on the three decade run on flat wage growth and the millions of jobs that have been shipped off shore during times of excellent profits. All of this coupled with the demise of the middle class, why would anyone trust that the American worker will get a fair shake in regards to fair pay?

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.

So there was no "spike"? Why must there be a "spike" when minimum wages are applied gradually? Does your link demonstrate that there was no inflation while minimum wage rates were increasing?

Sure. Other price fixing and money printing ponzi schemes have the same effect... for the same reasons.

What could your point possibly be? That minimum wage is somehow magically exempt from the well established principles of economics?

Folks who advocate for a minimum wage. What else could it possibly mean?

Thanks for sharing.

And you're going to tell me that the OBVIOUS devaluing effect that minimum wage law must NECESSARILY have on wages has no role what-so-ever to play in that. Right?

Well, maybe if work that was worth ony $1/hr (but still costs minimum wage) wasn't being subsidized by work worth more than minimum wage, perhaps wages would not be so persistently flat.

Artificially devaluing the rewards for productive capacity (by artificially making $1.00/hr worth of work pay any amount more, say $15.00/hr, for instance) requires more money to be printed because buyers and sellers still know what shit is worth regardless of what the government says about the dollars. Printing more money, without also increasing productivity must lead inevitably to inflation. It does so because there is just more money around--printing new money is not the same thing as creating new wealth.

Introducing all that new money into the economy will not make every citizen more wealthy--they will just have more money. Having more money is of little consolation when it takes twice your daily wages to get a day's worth of food.

No. It really doesn't. It would make your point, if you were telling me we DON'T need to increase the minimum wage (yet again) because it has a history of being so effective.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I appreciate your response. It was well thought out.
However, your oratory was basically conjecture. You lacked lacked real-time evidence to back yourself up.
You didn't attempt to look into my links, you assumed and took it from there.
Regarding the graph, you basically discarded the evidence tying in flat wage growth and the remarkable coincidence that was clearly mirrored by the length of the recoveries when compared with similar downturns prior to the flat wage growth phenomenon.
Thanks again for your input.

I looked into your links. They really don't cover you as well as you hoped.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I thought the links regarding the minimum wage timeframes, the CPI timeframes and the unemployment rates by timeframe were as accurate as one can find. It isn't hard al all to figure out .
Regarding what workers are paid, based on the three decade run on flat wage growth and the millions of jobs that have been shipped off shore during times of excellent profits. All of this coupled with the demise of the middle class, why would anyone trust that the American worker will get a fair shake in regards to fair pay?

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.... if you actually posted an answer.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Unequal income is not a problem.

Moron liberal orthodoxy which wants to claim that income inequality is a problem is the actual problem.

Fucking mindless troll shitbird lemming lolberals.

They must be here strictly to make us laugh.

 

[kiwiman127]

All I can say Rabbi, is wow, just wow.
Here you go, even more info in writing that most people already know,,,,except you.

What is the single most important economic indicator for policymakers?
"In the course of monitoring the economy and setting monetary policy the Federal Reserve follows a large set of indicators of present and future output, employment, inflation, and economic conditions. However, most policy makers do not believe that any single indicator is “reliable enough to be used mechanically as a sole target or guide to policy.”
SF Fed What is the single most important economic indicator for policymakers

Also:
The Big Three Economic Indicators
The Big Three Economic Indicators
Unemployment Rate
"For these reasons, the unemployment rate is one of the most widely followed economic indicators"
Unemployment Rate Definition Example Investing Answers

 

[kiwiman127]

I appreciate your response. It was well thought out.
However, your oratory was basically conjecture. You lacked lacked real-time evidence to back yourself up.
You didn't attempt to look into my links, you assumed and took it from there.
Regarding the graph, you basically discarded the evidence tying in flat wage growth and the remarkable coincidence that was clearly mirrored by the length of the recoveries when compared with similar downturns prior to the flat wage growth phenomenon.
Thanks again for your input.

I looked into your links. They really don't cover you as well as you hoped.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I thought the links regarding the minimum wage timeframes, the CPI timeframes and the unemployment rates by timeframe were as accurate as one can find. It isn't hard al all to figure out .
Regarding what workers are paid, based on the three decade run on flat wage growth and the millions of jobs that have been shipped off shore during times of excellent profits. All of this coupled with the demise of the middle class, why would anyone trust that the American worker will get a fair shake in regards to fair pay?

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.

I appreciate your response. It was well thought out.
However, your oratory was basically conjecture. You lacked lacked real-time evidence to back yourself up.
You didn't attempt to look into my links, you assumed and took it from there.
Regarding the graph, you basically discarded the evidence tying in flat wage growth and the remarkable coincidence that was clearly mirrored by the length of the recoveries when compared with similar downturns prior to the flat wage growth phenomenon.
Thanks again for your input.

I looked into your links. They really don't cover you as well as you hoped.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I thought the links regarding the minimum wage timeframes, the CPI timeframes and the unemployment rates by timeframe were as accurate as one can find. It isn't hard al all to figure out .
Regarding what workers are paid, based on the three decade run on flat wage growth and the millions of jobs that have been shipped off shore during times of excellent profits. All of this coupled with the demise of the middle class, why would anyone trust that the American worker will get a fair shake in regards to fair pay?

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.... if you actually posted an answer.

I have linked facts from unbiased resources, not opinionated conjecture like we have a ton of in this thread.. That's a big difference. Particularly when certain people reject cold hard facts. It's ideological conjecture over real world facts and then they criticize
the poster using facts.
You just can't make this shit up. Way to not use objective thinking. Just go through life, constrained by the little box you folks live your life in.

 

[kiwiman127]

Unequal income is not a problem.

Moron liberal orthodoxy which wants to claim that income inequality is a problem is the actual problem.

Fucking mindless troll shitbird lemming lolberals.

They must be here strictly to make us laugh.

So Standard & Poors is just throwing shit at the wall to see if it sticks?
Standard Poor s Global Credit Portal
and Forbes is also throwing shit at the walls?
Income Inequality Hurts Economic Growth - Forbes
Let's face it Bluto, economics isn't one of your strengths, but blind partisanship is, way too go!

 

[LOki]

I looked into your links. They really don't cover you as well as you hoped.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I thought the links regarding the minimum wage timeframes, the CPI timeframes and the unemployment rates by timeframe were as accurate as one can find. It isn't hard al all to figure out .
Regarding what workers are paid, based on the three decade run on flat wage growth and the millions of jobs that have been shipped off shore during times of excellent profits. All of this coupled with the demise of the middle class, why would anyone trust that the American worker will get a fair shake in regards to fair pay?

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.

I looked into your links. They really don't cover you as well as you hoped.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

I thought the links regarding the minimum wage timeframes, the CPI timeframes and the unemployment rates by timeframe were as accurate as one can find. It isn't hard al all to figure out .
Regarding what workers are paid, based on the three decade run on flat wage growth and the millions of jobs that have been shipped off shore during times of excellent profits. All of this coupled with the demise of the middle class, why would anyone trust that the American worker will get a fair shake in regards to fair pay?

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.... if you actually posted an answer.

I have linked facts from unbiased resources, not opinionated conjecture like we have a ton of in this thread.. That's a big difference. Particularly when certain people reject cold hard facts. It's ideological conjecture over real world facts and then they criticize
the poster using facts.
You just can't make this shit up. Way to not use objective thinking. Just go through life, constrained by the little box you folks live your life in.

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

 

[kiwiman127]

I thought the links regarding the minimum wage timeframes, the CPI timeframes and the unemployment rates by timeframe were as accurate as one can find. It isn't hard al all to figure out .
Regarding what workers are paid, based on the three decade run on flat wage growth and the millions of jobs that have been shipped off shore during times of excellent profits. All of this coupled with the demise of the middle class, why would anyone trust that the American worker will get a fair shake in regards to fair pay?

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.

I thought the links regarding the minimum wage timeframes, the CPI timeframes and the unemployment rates by timeframe were as accurate as one can find. It isn't hard al all to figure out .
Regarding what workers are paid, based on the three decade run on flat wage growth and the millions of jobs that have been shipped off shore during times of excellent profits. All of this coupled with the demise of the middle class, why would anyone trust that the American worker will get a fair shake in regards to fair pay?

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.... if you actually posted an answer.

I have linked facts from unbiased resources, not opinionated conjecture like we have a ton of in this thread.. That's a big difference. Particularly when certain people reject cold hard facts. It's ideological conjecture over real world facts and then they criticize
the poster using facts.
You just can't make this shit up. Way to not use objective thinking. Just go through life, constrained by the little box you folks live your life in.

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum. All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.
One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).
America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

 

[LOki]

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.... if you actually posted an answer.

I have linked facts from unbiased resources, not opinionated conjecture like we have a ton of in this thread.. That's a big difference. Particularly when certain people reject cold hard facts. It's ideological conjecture over real world facts and then they criticize
the poster using facts.
You just can't make this shit up. Way to not use objective thinking. Just go through life, constrained by the little box you folks live your life in.

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum.

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

 

[initforme]

Income inequality is only going to grow and grow and grow in this country until the uber wealthy control everything. Somehow it has gotten to $10 is a good wage and one should be thankful for the job. I say that idea is nonsense and one needs to rise above and get an education and training they are ABLE TO USE AGAINST their employer. Be valuable, and be willing to leave and walk off a job right now, no warning to the employer. A good worker should not be loyal to anyone except themselves.

 

[kiwiman127]

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.

You must of missed 2-3 posts of mine in this thread.
Go back a page or two. It's not rocket science.

Neither is linking.... if you actually posted an answer.

I have linked facts from unbiased resources, not opinionated conjecture like we have a ton of in this thread.. That's a big difference. Particularly when certain people reject cold hard facts. It's ideological conjecture over real world facts and then they criticize
the poster using facts.
You just can't make this shit up. Way to not use objective thinking. Just go through life, constrained by the little box you folks live your life in.

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum.

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

What we are seeing now, would only get worse.
About 75% of "we the people" want an increase in the minimum wage. The conservative Cato Institute has stated that raising the minimum wage has a positive income effect on the middle class*. Yet congress won't budge on raising the minimum wage because their financial sponsors don't want to have to pay half way decent wages. Someone is behind the demise of the middle class, someone is behind the story of the below chart.
*Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor

 

[thereisnospoon]

Why not bring back slavery?

Why don't you open a straw man factory and pay everyone $100 per hour

 

[thereisnospoon]

Neither is linking.
Neither is linking.... if you actually posted an answer.

I have linked facts from unbiased resources, not opinionated conjecture like we have a ton of in this thread.. That's a big difference. Particularly when certain people reject cold hard facts. It's ideological conjecture over real world facts and then they criticize
the poster using facts.
You just can't make this shit up. Way to not use objective thinking. Just go through life, constrained by the little box you folks live your life in.

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum.

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

What we are seeing now, would only get worse.
About 75% of "we the people" want an increase in the minimum wage. The conservative Cato Institute has stated that raising the minimum wage has a positive income effect on the middle class*. Yet congress won't budge on raising the minimum wage because their financial sponsors don't want to have to pay half way decent wages. Someone is behind the demise of the middle class, someone is behind the story of the below chart.
*Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than PoorView attachment 41964

The minimum wage is not one on which to support one's self or a family.
The min wage issue is pure politics.

 

[kiwiman127]

I have linked facts from unbiased resources, not opinionated conjecture like we have a ton of in this thread.. That's a big difference. Particularly when certain people reject cold hard facts. It's ideological conjecture over real world facts and then they criticize
the poster using facts.
You just can't make this shit up. Way to not use objective thinking. Just go through life, constrained by the little box you folks live your life in.

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum.

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

What we are seeing now, would only get worse.
About 75% of "we the people" want an increase in the minimum wage. The conservative Cato Institute has stated that raising the minimum wage has a positive income effect on the middle class*. Yet congress won't budge on raising the minimum wage because their financial sponsors don't want to have to pay half way decent wages. Someone is behind the demise of the middle class, someone is behind the story of the below chart.
*Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than PoorView attachment 41964

The minimum wage is not one on which to support one's self or a family.
The min wage issue is pure politics.

Actually, it does help, read the Cato Institute's points.
Danke.

 

[Dune]

How about we just bring it to levels equivalent to what I used to make when I made $2 an hour in the 70s

That would be around $15 an hour today

Let's not and say we did. Do you like going to McDonalds?

I like having low wage workers be able to afford basic necessities like I could at just $2 an hour

I paid a years tuition at college working just summers.....why can't low wage workers today?

Good for you. A part time job at a fast food joint isn't designed to pay for today's college tuition costs . College Tuition keeps going up, partly because of the amount of student loans being subsidized by Uncle Sam. Tuition costs are the problem that you should be complaining about. Now as far as burger king or McDonalds, I rarely go there, and I hope you don't go there either (the shit really is poison) but a minimum wage hike will certainly get passed down to the consumer and possibly even cause layoffs. In the end it does more harm than good.

Minimum wage has not kept up with ANY economic variable
For that $2 an hour, I could have bought a new car after six months work.
Today it would take you a year

I could buy 8 gallons of gas for that car......today you can buy 3

According to pew minimum wage has lost 8% of it's purchasing power due to inflation.

5 facts about the minimum wage Pew Research Center

8% since when? Last month?

 

[Dune]

I have linked facts from unbiased resources, not opinionated conjecture like we have a ton of in this thread.. That's a big difference. Particularly when certain people reject cold hard facts. It's ideological conjecture over real world facts and then they criticize
the poster using facts.
You just can't make this shit up. Way to not use objective thinking. Just go through life, constrained by the little box you folks live your life in.

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum.

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

What we are seeing now, would only get worse.
About 75% of "we the people" want an increase in the minimum wage. The conservative Cato Institute has stated that raising the minimum wage has a positive income effect on the middle class*. Yet congress won't budge on raising the minimum wage because their financial sponsors don't want to have to pay half way decent wages. Someone is behind the demise of the middle class, someone is behind the story of the below chart.
*Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than PoorView attachment 41964

The minimum wage is not one on which to support one's self or a family.
The min wage issue is pure politics.

Minimum wage is what some families try to live on.

 

[LOki]

Neither is linking.
Neither is linking.... if you actually posted an answer.

I have linked facts from unbiased resources, not opinionated conjecture like we have a ton of in this thread.. That's a big difference. Particularly when certain people reject cold hard facts. It's ideological conjecture over real world facts and then they criticize
the poster using facts.
You just can't make this shit up. Way to not use objective thinking. Just go through life, constrained by the little box you folks live your life in.

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum.

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

What we are seeing now, would only get worse.
About 75% of "we the people" want an increase in the minimum wage. The conservative Cato Institute has stated that raising the minimum wage has a positive income effect on the middle class*. Yet congress won't budge on raising the minimum wage because their financial sponsors don't want to have to pay half way decent wages. Someone is behind the demise of the middle class, someone is behind the story of the below chart.
*Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than PoorView attachment 41964

You didn't bother to actually read that article, did you Pumpkin?

Whatever. You're still avoiding the question at hand: Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

 

[LOki]

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum.

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

What we are seeing now, would only get worse.
About 75% of "we the people" want an increase in the minimum wage. The conservative Cato Institute has stated that raising the minimum wage has a positive income effect on the middle class*. Yet congress won't budge on raising the minimum wage because their financial sponsors don't want to have to pay half way decent wages. Someone is behind the demise of the middle class, someone is behind the story of the below chart.
*Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than PoorView attachment 41964

The minimum wage is not one on which to support one's self or a family.
The min wage issue is pure politics.

Actually, it does help, read the Cato Institute's points.
Danke.

Seriously. You should read it too.

 

[kiwiman127]

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum.

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

What we are seeing now, would only get worse.
About 75% of "we the people" want an increase in the minimum wage. The conservative Cato Institute has stated that raising the minimum wage has a positive income effect on the middle class*. Yet congress won't budge on raising the minimum wage because their financial sponsors don't want to have to pay half way decent wages. Someone is behind the demise of the middle class, someone is behind the story of the below chart.
*Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than PoorView attachment 41964

The minimum wage is not one on which to support one's self or a family.
The min wage issue is pure politics.

Actually, it does help, read the Cato Institute's points.
Danke.

Seriously. You should read it too.

Seriously, I read it quite awhile ago. And seriously I don't agree with all that Cato has to say but not to the point my veins in my neck are bursting. Their point about the middle class benefiting is shared by a majority of economist from both sides of the aisle. It raises the floor for wage earners, that is good in light of the fact the largest wage earning demographic in America has been screwed over for decades. But then you appear to support the concept of people working for peanuts, don't you?

 

[LOki]

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

What we are seeing now, would only get worse.
About 75% of "we the people" want an increase in the minimum wage. The conservative Cato Institute has stated that raising the minimum wage has a positive income effect on the middle class*. Yet congress won't budge on raising the minimum wage because their financial sponsors don't want to have to pay half way decent wages. Someone is behind the demise of the middle class, someone is behind the story of the below chart.
*Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than PoorView attachment 41964

The minimum wage is not one on which to support one's self or a family.
The min wage issue is pure politics.

Actually, it does help, read the Cato Institute's points.
Danke.

Seriously. You should read it too.

Seriously, I read it quite awhile ago. And seriously I don't agree with all that Cato has to say but not to the point my veins in my neck are bursting. Their point about the middle class benefiting is shared by a majority of economist from both sides of the aisle. It raises the floor for wage earners, that is good in light of the fact the largest wage earning demographic in America has been screwed over for decades. But then you appear to support the concept of people working for peanuts, don't you?

No. I don't claim the moral authority to decide for other people what their work is worth.

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

 

[thereisnospoon]

You linked to no answer to the question: "Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?"

Not one link.

Furthermore, you did not answer the question yourself. Not 1 page ago, not 2 pages ago,... not any pages ago.

So why don't you finally sack-up now and tell us: Why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

OK, no, I do not favor a workers wage based solely what is work is worth that is determined by his employer without a set minimum.

Good. You then (or your proxy) shall be the arbiter for EVERYONE what work is worth. Understood.

Upon what moral authority do you decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth? I'd really like to know, because I think you have no business telling me what my work is worth.

All one has to do is look a facts and see what has happened to the working middle class and working poor with thre decades of flat wages. All on has to do is look at the income inequality.

And statutory minimum wage has the precise role to play in that, as has been explained to you. You seem to wish those injustices to expand even further. Why is that?

One could only wonder how bad things would be for 80-90% of working Americans if we didn't have a floor for wages (minimum wage).

It would be better, because their wages would be worth more, as was clearly explained to you.

America is in a serious decline. As I mentioned, America's middle class was the most admired and the most wealthy middle class in the world. Now the US middle class isn't the most admired and has slipped to 21st in wealth. All because of greed.
I thought for sure, the articles/limks I provided would answer your question, but I guess not.

Statutory minimum wage REQUIRES that you underpay for work worth more than the statutory minimum, in order to subsidize the work that is worth less than the statutory minimum. It is a mathematical and economic truth that is inescapable, and indisputable.

So now that you've unambiguously established that the value of the work is irrelevant to what should paid, I submit again this question:

Upon what moral authority do you (or your proxy) decide for EVERYONE what their work is worth?

Thank you.

What we are seeing now, would only get worse.
About 75% of "we the people" want an increase in the minimum wage. The conservative Cato Institute has stated that raising the minimum wage has a positive income effect on the middle class*. Yet congress won't budge on raising the minimum wage because their financial sponsors don't want to have to pay half way decent wages. Someone is behind the demise of the middle class, someone is behind the story of the below chart.
*Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than PoorView attachment 41964

The minimum wage is not one on which to support one's self or a family.
The min wage issue is pure politics.

Minimum wage is what some families try to live on.

They shouldn't....A very small percentage of people who make under $10 per hour attempt this foolishness.
For such a small number of people we should turn the labor market upside down?