why not make the minimum wage $30 an hour?

[Redfish]

Of course capitalists have no interest in a vibrant economy.

Why do you object to basing a worker's wages solely upon the value of that worker's work?

Capitalists have an interest in maintaining a low wage workforce without many options

Thankfully, they have the Republican Party doing what it can to get it

wrong, the illegal immigration policies of obozo have caused much of this problem.

Name the policy

Not enforcing our immigration laws and securing the southern border.

We have fewer illegal immigrants crossing the border than ten years ago

yeah, so what? We have 20 or 30 million here illegally taking low paying jobs that could be done by americans at MW or above. Many of them are being paid unreported cash to avoid taxes but are being given free american benefits. This is lunacy.

 

[Redfish]

In theory....that sounds great
In practice.....it isn't working
Why? Because wages are based on demand and not worth. Employers have figured out how to keep their workforce in fear and hungry. By keeping the supply of viable jobs low, employers get to set terms on wages and benefits.

Yeah, because that's what drives American biz expansion and job creation ... the desire to control our minimum wage! I tell you, loony leftists are by far the dimmest people on the planet.

I win

you have never won, and never will. you are an idiot.

I am not.....mother had me tested

testing by your grandmother does not count.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Of course capitalists have no interest in a vibrant economy.

Why do you object to basing a worker's wages solely upon the value of that worker's work?

Capitalists have an interest in maintaining a low wage workforce without many options

Thankfully, they have the Republican Party doing what it can to get it

Yes. Of course. Republicans are bad.

Why do you object to basing a worker's wages solely upon the value of that worker's work?

The main reason is that the free market does not currently provide a wage that allows low scale workers to support themselves and their families. It used to

1) You don't think that inflation and wage devaluation have anything to do with that?
2) So what? Describe the precise obligation that requires an employer to provide support for workers and their families.

Please cite the moral or economic principle that explains why an employer is obligated to compensate some workers less than what their work is worth in order to subsidize the inflated wages of workers being paid more than what their work is worth.

Don't fret much over this... I literally expect nothing from you.

In the absence of a livable wage, the taxpayers have had to step in and support those families with housing assistance, food stamps and healthcare

Right. Forced at gunpoint.

If a worker's intelligence, talent, industriousness, and/or ambition limits their social contribution to burger flipping, why does their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) know no such limitation? Upon what moral principle is it valid for them to make their unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

Again, I expect nothing from you.

When given a choice between an employer supporting his workers and the taxpayer....I choose the employer

False dichotomy. I choose the workers supporting themselves.

We have 300 million Americans

Not all are suited to be Rock Stars, CEOs, doctors and lawyers
Some will end up doing the menial tasks that others look down on. That is the way all societies function
Wages used to be able to support a basic standard of living for those who perform menial tasks. Our taxpayers have to step in and make up the difference. The employers don't care, they get to keep the extra profit from substandard wages

why do you say not all Americans are not suited to be rock stars or famous?

Lowering the bar are we?

It seems to me anyone in America can do it, if they wanted to.

You are just making excuses for the ones that don't want to

 

[Wyatt earp]

They have the tools, some people in America just strive for happiness, not the stress of being rich or famous .

Some just want to complain about folks who wanted to be rich and don't share their hard work with them

 

[rightwinger]

Capitalists have an interest in maintaining a low wage workforce without many options

Thankfully, they have the Republican Party doing what it can to get it

wrong, the illegal immigration policies of obozo have caused much of this problem.

Name the policy

Not enforcing our immigration laws and securing the southern border.

We have fewer illegal immigrants crossing the border than ten years ago

yeah, so what? We have 20 or 30 million here illegally taking low paying jobs that could be done by americans at MW or above. Many of them are being paid unreported cash to avoid taxes but are being given free american benefits. This is lunacy.

Different issue and does nothing to help 35 million WORKING americans who need government assistance

 

[LOki]

I expected nothing from you.

Of course capitalists have no interest in a vibrant economy.

Why do you object to basing a worker's wages solely upon the value of that worker's work?

Capitalists have an interest in maintaining a low wage workforce without many options

Thankfully, they have the Republican Party doing what it can to get it

Yes. Of course. Republicans are bad.

Why do you object to basing a worker's wages solely upon the value of that worker's work?

The main reason is that the free market does not currently provide a wage that allows low scale workers to support themselves and their families. It used to

1) You don't think that inflation and wage devaluation have anything to do with that?
2) So what? Describe the precise obligation that requires an employer to provide support for workers and their families.

Please cite the moral or economic principle that explains why an employer is obligated to compensate some workers less than what their work is worth in order to subsidize the inflated wages of workers being paid more than what their work is worth.

Don't fret much over this... I literally expect nothing from you.

In the absence of a livable wage, the taxpayers have had to step in and support those families with housing assistance, food stamps and healthcare

Right. Forced at gunpoint.

If a worker's intelligence, talent, industriousness, and/or ambition limits their social contribution to burger flipping, why does their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) know no such limitation? Upon what moral principle is it valid for them to make their unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

Again, I expect nothing from you.

When given a choice between an employer supporting his workers and the taxpayer....I choose the employer

False dichotomy. I choose the workers supporting themselves.

We have 300 million Americans

Excellent fun fact.

Not all are suited to be Rock Stars, CEOs, doctors and lawyers

Of course. Not in dispute.

Some will end up doing the menial tasks that others look down on. That is the way all societies function

Again, not in dispute.

Yet I ask again, what is your precise objection to paying those workers what their work is worth?

Wages used to be able to support a basic standard of living for those who perform menial tasks.

Demonstrably untrue. An OBVIOUS fiction.

Our taxpayers have to step in and make up the difference.

Right. Forced at gunpoint.

If a worker's intelligence, talent, industriousness, and/or ambition limits their social contribution to burger flipping, why does their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) know no such limitation? Upon what moral principle is it valid for them to make their unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

Again, I expect nothing from you.

The employers don't care, they get to keep the extra profit from substandard wages

"Substandard wages" is a meaningless term. Monopsonies obtain coercive power only through legislation.

Besides, so what? Describe the precise obligation that requires an employer to provide support for workers and their families.

Please cite for all of us the moral or economic principle that explains why an employer is obligated to compensate some workers less than what their work is worth in order to subsidize the inflated wages of workers being paid more than what their work is worth.

Again, I expect nothing from you.

 

[rightwinger]

Capitalists have an interest in maintaining a low wage workforce without many options

Thankfully, they have the Republican Party doing what it can to get it

Yes. Of course. Republicans are bad.

Why do you object to basing a worker's wages solely upon the value of that worker's work?

The main reason is that the free market does not currently provide a wage that allows low scale workers to support themselves and their families. It used to

1) You don't think that inflation and wage devaluation have anything to do with that?
2) So what? Describe the precise obligation that requires an employer to provide support for workers and their families.

Please cite the moral or economic principle that explains why an employer is obligated to compensate some workers less than what their work is worth in order to subsidize the inflated wages of workers being paid more than what their work is worth.

Don't fret much over this... I literally expect nothing from you.

In the absence of a livable wage, the taxpayers have had to step in and support those families with housing assistance, food stamps and healthcare

Right. Forced at gunpoint.

If a worker's intelligence, talent, industriousness, and/or ambition limits their social contribution to burger flipping, why does their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) know no such limitation? Upon what moral principle is it valid for them to make their unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

Again, I expect nothing from you.

When given a choice between an employer supporting his workers and the taxpayer....I choose the employer

False dichotomy. I choose the workers supporting themselves.

We have 300 million Americans

Not all are suited to be Rock Stars, CEOs, doctors and lawyers
Some will end up doing the menial tasks that others look down on. That is the way all societies function
Wages used to be able to support a basic standard of living for those who perform menial tasks. Our taxpayers have to step in and make up the difference. The employers don't care, they get to keep the extra profit from substandard wages

why do you say not all Americans are not suited to be rock stars or famous?

Lowering the bar are we?

It seems to me anyone in America can do it, if they wanted to.

You are just making excuses for the ones that don't want to

Sunshine and unicorns

Everyone can be a Rock Star if they only try

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

wrong, the illegal immigration policies of obozo have caused much of this problem.

Name the policy

Not enforcing our immigration laws and securing the southern border.

We have fewer illegal immigrants crossing the border than ten years ago

yeah, so what? We have 20 or 30 million here illegally taking low paying jobs that could be done by americans at MW or above. Many of them are being paid unreported cash to avoid taxes but are being given free american benefits. This is lunacy.

Different issue and does nothing to help 35 million WORKING americans who need government assistance

Sorry, we can't afford it. And your party should stop creating all these needy fucks.

 

[Redfish]

wrong, the illegal immigration policies of obozo have caused much of this problem.

Name the policy

Not enforcing our immigration laws and securing the southern border.

We have fewer illegal immigrants crossing the border than ten years ago

yeah, so what? We have 20 or 30 million here illegally taking low paying jobs that could be done by americans at MW or above. Many of them are being paid unreported cash to avoid taxes but are being given free american benefits. This is lunacy.

Different issue and does nothing to help 35 million WORKING americans who need government assistance

Why do they need govt assistance? When I was young and just starting out, I worked two jobs and hardly had time to eat and sleep. I would have been embarrased to ask for govt help.

This entitlement mentality is destroying our country, and those like you are contributing to its destruction.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Name the policy

Not enforcing our immigration laws and securing the southern border.

We have fewer illegal immigrants crossing the border than ten years ago

yeah, so what? We have 20 or 30 million here illegally taking low paying jobs that could be done by americans at MW or above. Many of them are being paid unreported cash to avoid taxes but are being given free american benefits. This is lunacy.

Different issue and does nothing to help 35 million WORKING americans who need government assistance

Why do they need govt assistance? When I was young and just starting out, I worked two jobs and hardly had time to eat and sleep. I would have been embarrased to ask for govt help.

This entitlement mentality is destroying our country, and those like you are contributing to its destruction.

These people like RW'r are an embarrassment.... "gimmee, gimmee, gimmee."

 

[Redfish]

Yes. Of course. Republicans are bad.

Why do you object to basing a worker's wages solely upon the value of that worker's work?

The main reason is that the free market does not currently provide a wage that allows low scale workers to support themselves and their families. It used to

1) You don't think that inflation and wage devaluation have anything to do with that?
2) So what? Describe the precise obligation that requires an employer to provide support for workers and their families.

Please cite the moral or economic principle that explains why an employer is obligated to compensate some workers less than what their work is worth in order to subsidize the inflated wages of workers being paid more than what their work is worth.

Don't fret much over this... I literally expect nothing from you.

In the absence of a livable wage, the taxpayers have had to step in and support those families with housing assistance, food stamps and healthcare

Right. Forced at gunpoint.

If a worker's intelligence, talent, industriousness, and/or ambition limits their social contribution to burger flipping, why does their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) know no such limitation? Upon what moral principle is it valid for them to make their unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

Again, I expect nothing from you.

When given a choice between an employer supporting his workers and the taxpayer....I choose the employer

False dichotomy. I choose the workers supporting themselves.

We have 300 million Americans

Not all are suited to be Rock Stars, CEOs, doctors and lawyers
Some will end up doing the menial tasks that others look down on. That is the way all societies function
Wages used to be able to support a basic standard of living for those who perform menial tasks. Our taxpayers have to step in and make up the difference. The employers don't care, they get to keep the extra profit from substandard wages

why do you say not all Americans are not suited to be rock stars or famous?

Lowering the bar are we?

It seems to me anyone in America can do it, if they wanted to.

You are just making excuses for the ones that don't want to

Sunshine and unicorns

Everyone can be a Rock Star if they only try

Ben Carson and Herman Cain both came from poverty. No, not everyone will succeed, success is not granted, happiness is not granted. Both must be earned.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The main reason is that the free market does not currently provide a wage that allows low scale workers to support themselves and their families. It used to

1) You don't think that inflation and wage devaluation have anything to do with that?
2) So what? Describe the precise obligation that requires an employer to provide support for workers and their families.

Please cite the moral or economic principle that explains why an employer is obligated to compensate some workers less than what their work is worth in order to subsidize the inflated wages of workers being paid more than what their work is worth.

Don't fret much over this... I literally expect nothing from you.

In the absence of a livable wage, the taxpayers have had to step in and support those families with housing assistance, food stamps and healthcare

Right. Forced at gunpoint.

If a worker's intelligence, talent, industriousness, and/or ambition limits their social contribution to burger flipping, why does their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) know no such limitation? Upon what moral principle is it valid for them to make their unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

Again, I expect nothing from you.

When given a choice between an employer supporting his workers and the taxpayer....I choose the employer

False dichotomy. I choose the workers supporting themselves.

We have 300 million Americans

Not all are suited to be Rock Stars, CEOs, doctors and lawyers
Some will end up doing the menial tasks that others look down on. That is the way all societies function
Wages used to be able to support a basic standard of living for those who perform menial tasks. Our taxpayers have to step in and make up the difference. The employers don't care, they get to keep the extra profit from substandard wages

why do you say not all Americans are not suited to be rock stars or famous?

Lowering the bar are we?

It seems to me anyone in America can do it, if they wanted to.

You are just making excuses for the ones that don't want to

Sunshine and unicorns

Everyone can be a Rock Star if they only try

Ben Carson and Herman Cain both came from poverty. No, not everyone will succeed, success is not granted, happiness is not granted. Both must be earned.

What they seek is equality of outcome. There is no such thing.

 

[Redfish]

1) You don't think that inflation and wage devaluation have anything to do with that?
2) So what? Describe the precise obligation that requires an employer to provide support for workers and their families.

Please cite the moral or economic principle that explains why an employer is obligated to compensate some workers less than what their work is worth in order to subsidize the inflated wages of workers being paid more than what their work is worth.

Don't fret much over this... I literally expect nothing from you.

Right. Forced at gunpoint.

If a worker's intelligence, talent, industriousness, and/or ambition limits their social contribution to burger flipping, why does their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) know no such limitation? Upon what moral principle is it valid for them to make their unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

Again, I expect nothing from you.

False dichotomy. I choose the workers supporting themselves.

We have 300 million Americans

Not all are suited to be Rock Stars, CEOs, doctors and lawyers
Some will end up doing the menial tasks that others look down on. That is the way all societies function
Wages used to be able to support a basic standard of living for those who perform menial tasks. Our taxpayers have to step in and make up the difference. The employers don't care, they get to keep the extra profit from substandard wages

why do you say not all Americans are not suited to be rock stars or famous?

Lowering the bar are we?

It seems to me anyone in America can do it, if they wanted to.

You are just making excuses for the ones that don't want to

Sunshine and unicorns

Everyone can be a Rock Star if they only try

Ben Carson and Herman Cain both came from poverty. No, not everyone will succeed, success is not granted, happiness is not granted. Both must be earned.

What they seek is equality of outcome. There is no such thing.

Yes, in their massive stupidity they advocate for a system where all of the money and all of the power is concentrated in a very small group of super elites and everyone else is EQUALLY miserable.

This are idiots of the highest degree, they shit in their soup and proclaim it wonderful.

 

[LOki]

Capitalists have an interest in maintaining a low wage workforce without many options

Thankfully, they have the Republican Party doing what it can to get it

wrong, the illegal immigration policies of obozo have caused much of this problem.

Name the policy

Not enforcing our immigration laws and securing the southern border.

We have fewer illegal immigrants crossing the border than ten years ago

yeah, so what? We have 20 or 30 million here illegally taking low paying jobs that could be done by americans at MW or above. Many of them are being paid unreported cash to avoid taxes but are being given free american benefits. This is lunacy.

Indeed!

You're providing for Mr. Winger 20 or 30 million examples that demonstrate conclusively that some work is actually worth less than the minimum wage. That some folks will accept such contracts on an entirely voluntary basis. And minimum wage laws make these voluntary contracts illegal... and the proponents of such laws simply avoid discussing why.

You see, minimum wage facilitates the unregulated labor force.

That's right, there's an unregulated labor force out there: prostitution, cock fighting, drug dealing, gun running, child pornography, slavery, burglary--not to mention "undocumented foreign laborers." Why are there so many Mexicans and Southeast Asians working under the table in the U.S.? Is it because they have a penchant for exploitation? Hell no! They're here because some jobs are really worth less than $7.25/hr, and they're willing to take that wage, and that's more than they'd make in the country where they were actually being exploited.

And before you go there, I'm not suggesting that there's no exploitation of unregulated laborers happening with our borders... I AM suggesting, however, that one reason minimum wage proponents are so eager to facilitate the unregulated labor force, is that they are interested in facilitating the exploitation.

 

[Redfish]

wrong, the illegal immigration policies of obozo have caused much of this problem.

Name the policy

Not enforcing our immigration laws and securing the southern border.

We have fewer illegal immigrants crossing the border than ten years ago

yeah, so what? We have 20 or 30 million here illegally taking low paying jobs that could be done by americans at MW or above. Many of them are being paid unreported cash to avoid taxes but are being given free american benefits. This is lunacy.

Indeed!

You're providing for Mr. Winger 20 or 30 million examples that demonstrate conclusively that some work is actually worth less than the minimum wage. That some folks will accept such contracts on an entirely voluntary basis. And minimum wage laws make these voluntary contracts illegal... and the proponents of such laws simply avoid discussing why.

You see, minimum wage facilitates the unregulated labor force.

That's right, there's an unregulated labor force out there: prostitution, cock fighting, drug dealing, gun running, child pornography, slavery, burglary--not to mention "undocumented foreign laborers." Why are there so many Mexicans and Southeast Asians working under the table in the U.S.? Is it because they have a penchant for exploitation? Hell no! They're here because some jobs are really worth less than $7.25/hr, and they're willing to take that wage, and that's more than they'd make in the country where they were actually being exploited.

And before you go there, I'm not suggesting that there's no exploitation of unregulated laborers happening with our borders... I AM suggesting, however, that one reason minimum wage proponents are so eager to facilitate the unregulated labor force, is that they are interested in facilitating the exploitation.

nice summary.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The main reason is that the free market does not currently provide a wage that allows low scale workers to support themselves and their families. It used to

1) You don't think that inflation and wage devaluation have anything to do with that?
2) So what? Describe the precise obligation that requires an employer to provide support for workers and their families.

Please cite the moral or economic principle that explains why an employer is obligated to compensate some workers less than what their work is worth in order to subsidize the inflated wages of workers being paid more than what their work is worth.

Don't fret much over this... I literally expect nothing from you.

In the absence of a livable wage, the taxpayers have had to step in and support those families with housing assistance, food stamps and healthcare

Right. Forced at gunpoint.

If a worker's intelligence, talent, industriousness, and/or ambition limits their social contribution to burger flipping, why does their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) know no such limitation? Upon what moral principle is it valid for them to make their unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

Again, I expect nothing from you.

When given a choice between an employer supporting his workers and the taxpayer....I choose the employer

False dichotomy. I choose the workers supporting themselves.

We have 300 million Americans

Not all are suited to be Rock Stars, CEOs, doctors and lawyers
Some will end up doing the menial tasks that others look down on. That is the way all societies function
Wages used to be able to support a basic standard of living for those who perform menial tasks. Our taxpayers have to step in and make up the difference. The employers don't care, they get to keep the extra profit from substandard wages

why do you say not all Americans are not suited to be rock stars or famous?

Lowering the bar are we?

It seems to me anyone in America can do it, if they wanted to.

You are just making excuses for the ones that don't want to

Sunshine and unicorns

Everyone can be a Rock Star if they only try

Ben Carson and Herman Cain both came from poverty. No, not everyone will succeed, success is not granted, happiness is not granted. Both must be earned.

what? At 50 I am happy with my girlfriend and my dog

They are a bonus and blessing to my life

Being rich or famous? Fuck that to much overtime

 

[Redfish]

1) You don't think that inflation and wage devaluation have anything to do with that?
2) So what? Describe the precise obligation that requires an employer to provide support for workers and their families.

Please cite the moral or economic principle that explains why an employer is obligated to compensate some workers less than what their work is worth in order to subsidize the inflated wages of workers being paid more than what their work is worth.

Don't fret much over this... I literally expect nothing from you.

Right. Forced at gunpoint.

If a worker's intelligence, talent, industriousness, and/or ambition limits their social contribution to burger flipping, why does their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) know no such limitation? Upon what moral principle is it valid for them to make their unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

Again, I expect nothing from you.

False dichotomy. I choose the workers supporting themselves.

We have 300 million Americans

Not all are suited to be Rock Stars, CEOs, doctors and lawyers
Some will end up doing the menial tasks that others look down on. That is the way all societies function
Wages used to be able to support a basic standard of living for those who perform menial tasks. Our taxpayers have to step in and make up the difference. The employers don't care, they get to keep the extra profit from substandard wages

why do you say not all Americans are not suited to be rock stars or famous?

Lowering the bar are we?

It seems to me anyone in America can do it, if they wanted to.

You are just making excuses for the ones that don't want to

Sunshine and unicorns

Everyone can be a Rock Star if they only try

Ben Carson and Herman Cain both came from poverty. No, not everyone will succeed, success is not granted, happiness is not granted. Both must be earned.

what? At 50 I am happy with my girlfriend and my dog

They are a bonus and blessing to my life

Being rich or famous? Fuck that to much overtime

great, thats your choice and you are happy with it. thats the way it should be.

 

[Wyatt earp]

That's what I am saying, I am content and anyone who thinks being happy equals more money go for it

Just don't complain to me latter because I figured it out

Money don't equal being happy

 

[SAYIT]

you have never won, and never will. you are an idiot.

I am not.....mother had me tested

With good reason.

 

[SAYIT]

Sunshine and unicorns
Everyone can be a Rock Star if they only try

The fact remains that America provides the opportunities to succeed but the individual must make the effort. You can lead the horses to water but you can't make 'em drink.