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Oh I hate this board , way too many adds to hard to get around.
this: there are better art. on it, but I'm short on time.
Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kahane was an infant back then when a few jews were desperately trying to ransom
the lives of their family members from the filth of your fellow islamo Nazis. Jews have
been bribing and paying ransoms and making "deals" with your fellow islamo Nazis
dating all the way back to the times of the ROMAN islamo Nazis The roots of islamo Nazism
is actually in the ROMAN EMPIRE-------those deals saved lives but were never a
"bargain"
Irosie I am or I wasn't talking the Kahane agreement I was talking the Zionist Hitler Haavara Transfer Agreement. Read the article. Hitler tired to get the Jews out of Germany, Many didn't want to go. Hitler wanted rid of the Jews, point blank, he didn't want the Communist Jews like were in Ukraine and the Soviet to take over Germany, much like Jews have taken over the US today. Gee I think Ukraine had their celebration not long ago. The Holodomor: Painful Memories of Ukraine's Silent Massacre | The New Order
Truth hurts.
[MENTION=50023]Penelope[/MENTION]Kahane was an infant back then when a few jews were desperately trying to ransom
the lives of their family members from the filth of your fellow islamo Nazis. Jews have
been bribing and paying ransoms and making "deals" with your fellow islamo Nazis
dating all the way back to the times of the ROMAN islamo Nazis The roots of islamo Nazism
is actually in the ROMAN EMPIRE-------those deals saved lives but were never a
"bargain"
Irosie I am or I wasn't talking the Kahane agreement I was talking the Zionist Hitler Haavara Transfer Agreement. Read the article. Hitler tired to get the Jews out of Germany, Many didn't want to go. Hitler wanted rid of the Jews, point blank, he didn't want the Communist Jews like were in Ukraine and the Soviet to take over Germany, much like Jews have taken over the US today. Gee I think Ukraine had their celebration not long ago. The Holodomor: Painful Memories of Ukraine's Silent Massacre | The New Order
Truth hurts.
When the Nazis elected, it was in 1933, the Haavara also signed in 1933, the holocaust was 7 years later after the Nazis established support and silenced the others when they took over Germany.
But what is that have to do with reality? We are talking about branches of democracy versus DICTATORSHIP - Get real.
[MENTION=50023]Penelope[/MENTION]Irosie I am or I wasn't talking the Kahane agreement I was talking the Zionist Hitler Haavara Transfer Agreement. Read the article. Hitler tired to get the Jews out of Germany, Many didn't want to go. Hitler wanted rid of the Jews, point blank, he didn't want the Communist Jews like were in Ukraine and the Soviet to take over Germany, much like Jews have taken over the US today. Gee I think Ukraine had their celebration not long ago. The Holodomor: Painful Memories of Ukraine's Silent Massacre | The New Order
Truth hurts.
When the Nazis elected, it was in 1933, the Haavara also signed in 1933, the holocaust was 7 years later after the Nazis established support and silenced the others when they took over Germany.
But what is that have to do with reality? We are talking about branches of democracy versus DICTATORSHIP - Get real.
The jews use the holocaust as an excuse for everything and its not so. They had a chance to leave and didn't. The Zionist scums are murdering thugs. Every hear of the KingsTorah, now I guess he is writing the Return of the kosher pig.
Why My Fellow Liberals Should Support Israel in Her Conflict with Hamas
Posted: 11/20/2012 11:15 am
As an American liberal who loves Israel because I'm a liberal, I've been disturbed by the recent diminishing trend of American progressive support for the Jewish state in its decades-long conflict with its increasingly hostile neighbors.
A recent CNN/ORC poll concerning the Gaza conflict intensified my anxiety: While a plurality of self-identified liberals and Democrats support Israel's right of self-defense in taking military action against Hamas, Democrats were three times more likely than Republicans to believe that the Jewish State is "not justified" in its targeted bombing campaign.
The roots of liberal sympathy for the radical, fundamentalist, brutal Hamas regime are as complex as they are troubling. We liberals love the underdog, and a media that rewards conflict over context has helped promote the perverse notion that the tiny nation with the Star of David on its flag is really the Goliath in the popular Biblical metaphor. This problem was exacerbated in Campaign 2012 when my fellow progressives watched a coterie of unlikeable, right-wing GOP presidential hopefuls proclaim their uber-passionate support for the Jewish State and try to use it as a political wedge against our beloved progressive President.
But amidst the shouting and finger-pointing, the fundamental reason behind the decline of American progressive support for Israel relates to a profound misunderstanding of the facts on the ground. When confronted with an accurate accounting of the differences between the two sides in the conflict, a true liberal must be compelled to embrace the Zionist cause.
Here are but a few examples:
Israel Values Human Life; Hamas Does Not
There's no moral value more important to American liberals than the preciousness of human life, particularly the lives of those in our society who are most vulnerable: As Hubert Humphrey elegantly framed the liberal credo, "The moral test of government is how it treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadows of life -- the sick, the needy and the handicapped."
Israel's current intervention in Gaza is a living example of this principle. Understanding that any military action would provoke its international enemies, Israel simply could no longer tolerate the danger posed to its citizens -- Jews and Arabs -- by the many months of unprovoked bombing of civilian targets in Southern Israel by Hamas militants. Accordingly, Israel has engaged in a painstakingly-measured, precisely-targeted bombing campaign, using the most modern technology to carefully dismantle military targets and avoid civilian casualties. On Monday, for example, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) used pinpoint accuracy to destroy the second floor of a Gaza City office building, killing only the Islamic Jihad military leaders who had been responsible for training terrorists, planning attacks on Israeli civilians and manufacturing weapons.
Outgoing rockets from #Gaza City moments ago twitter.com/andersoncooper...
Anderson Cooper (@andersoncooper) November 19, 2012
Of course, there has been -- and will continue to be -- significant collateral damage; innocent Palestinians -- very, very regretfully -- have been killed in the bombing campaign. But their blood lies entirely in the hands of their Hamas leaders. As the picture above taken by CNN's Anderson Cooper dramatically illustrates, Hamas has embedded its offensive military weaponry within highly populated civilian areas, with the complete knowledge -- and indeed, desired intent -- of provoking the IDF to unintentionally kill innocent Palestinians. Hamas' use of human shields -- its deliberate placement of innocent civilians near combat targets to either deter Israel from attacking those targets or to provoke international sympathy for mounting civilian death tolls -- is an indisputable war crime, a clear violation of the Geneva Convention.
Furthermore, Hamas leaders have actually been daring Israel to launch a ground campaign that would necessarily lead to a significant increase in loss of life on both sides, especially among Palestinian civilians. Hamas' leader, Khaled Meshal, suggested Monday that the Israeli mobilization on the Gaza border was a bluff, and insisted that Hamas would not cease its bombing campaign unless Israel ended its military blockade -- a condition it knows the Israeli government will never accept because that would mean more offensive weapons could be brought into Gaza, dramatically exacerbating the military threat against Israeli civilians.
Israel Seeks Peace; Hamas Does Not
When it comes to American foreign policy, or relations among world nations, there's no liberal value more important than the search for peace.
Since declaring its independence more than six decades ago, Israel has desperately sought peace with its neighbors. Time after time, Israel has reached its hand out to peace, only to be met with shaken fists: From Arab declaration of war in 1948 upon their refusal to accept the United Nations' partition; to the Egyptian military provocations in 1967 that led to the Six Day War; to the Arab League's refusal after that war to accept the U.N.'s resolution of land for peace; to the 1973 three-front invasion of the Jewish State on its holiest day of Yom Kippur, to the present hostilities. Indeed, Israel has no incentive whatsoever to provoke war with its neighbors -- its citizens would like nothing better to live peacefully.
Some have argued this week -- including some well-meaning supporters of the Jewish State -- that if only Israel would sign a peace agreement to establish a Palestinian state in the West Bank, such bombing campaigns would no longer be necessary. Like most American liberals -- indeed like a majority of Israeli citizens -- I too support a two-state solution that transform most of the West Bank into a Palestinian State. But among the wide variety of strong rationales for such an agreement to be reached through bi-lateral negotiation, stopping Hamas from bombing Israeli civilians is not one of them. As vividly outlined in its charter, Hamas is only interested in a one-state solution, with no Jewish State.
Indeed, the recent Hamas military campaigns have made many Israelis recalibrate the value of turning the West Bank over to a people that democratically elected Hamas in the Gaza Strip. And certainly, it has made many rethink the decision of Israel's Sharon Administration to unilaterally withdraw from Gaza in 2004-2005.
But most significantly, such calls ignore the most important factor for the failure of peace in the region -- Israel's inability to identify a willing partner for peace on the other side. Whether it was Yasir Arafat's 2000 rejection of the Bill Clinton negotiated peace settlement in 2000 that would have turned over 97% of the West Bank and control of East Jerusalem to Palestinian hands, or current Palestinian President Mohammad Abbas' 2008 refusal of then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Ohlmert's even more generous peace offer, Palestinian leaders have proven time and again that they are the remaining obstacle to peace. And remember: Arafat and Abbas represent the "moderate" wing of the Palestinian movement; Hamas fundamentally rejects Israel's very existence.
Israel Shares Our Liberal Values; Hamas Does Not
I have outlined in this space, and in my recently published book, The Liberal Case for Israel, that Israel models liberal values as well as -- or even better -- than any other nation today. Whether it is its remarkable progressive LGBT culture and legal regime, its feminist approach to the empowerment of women, its warm embrace of immigrant populations, its generous single-payer health care system, or its compassionate form of capitalism, Israel promotes the kind of liberal policies that folks like me that live in red states have been advocating unsuccessfully for years. Moreover, Israel's extraordinary protection of civil rights and civil liberties ensures that its Arab citizens not only have signficantly greater freedoms of speech, assembly and religion than in most Arab nations, but that they have the complete equal rights of their Jewish neighbors.
By contrast, the Hamas government is a brutal, repressive and regressive theocracy. The Hamas regime demeans, oppresses, jails, harasses, assaults, and tortures gays and lesbians. Women are second class citizens; there are no free speech protections, and government corruption runs rampant. American liberals -- particularly those of us from religious, ethnic or sexual orientation minorities -- would not simply vigorously object to Hamas policies being brought to our nation; we'd be wise never to step foot in Gaza territory.
====
The current Hamas campaign is ultimately a cynical, patronizing attempt to win the hearts and minds of American liberals: If they can provoke Israel to unintentionally kill enough innocent Palestinian civilians -- and effectively use the media to paint themselves as the heroic blood-stained victim -- then perhaps enough liberals will join in their efforts to wipe the Jewish State off the map.
My fellow liberals, I urge you not to fall for this. Israel is not perfect. Like in the U.S., these kinds terrorist attacks on the homeland sometimes will provoke official overreaction or create unintentional casualties. (Of course, every day is 9/11 in Israel.)
But in the end, the Zionist experiment has emerged -- quietly and vibrantly -- as a clear demonstration of the power of progressive values. Let's stand with those who continue to uphold our deepest principles, even in the face of the most belligerent anti-liberal provocations.
Jonathan_Miller: Why My Fellow Liberals Should Support Israel in Her Conflict with Hamas
And to show what a joke the Palestinian Peace initiatives are look at the text of this article.
It refers NOT to the CURRENT violence but the most PREVIOUS Hamas propagated violence from the LAST time!
Is that the narrative we're supposed to be buying? Israel was just minding their own business when this started? [
The jews use the holocaust as an excuse for everything and its not so. They had a chance to leave and didn't. The Zionist scums are murdering thugs. Every hear of the KingsTorah, now I guess he is writing the Return of the kosher pig.
[
The jews use the holocaust as an excuse for everything and its not so. They had a chance to leave and didn't. The Zionist scums are murdering thugs. Every hear of the KingsTorah, now I guess he is writing the Return of the kosher pig.
I am reminded of the last days in the bunker as recorded by Penelope's co-Nazi-whore---
Magda Goebbels. right before she shoved cyanide down the throats of her five babies ---
she and her husband waxed ELOQUENT -----Penelope echoes their eloquence
Which is why I think Israel deserves an international punishment for being so cruel against the peaceful Arabs aka Palestinians, the Arab nations must punish Israel
I am?You seem confused, Billo.
I'm not disputing that.First of all, the rocket attacks from Gaza are indiscriminate, so HAMAS (or whoever: it really doesn't matter since HAMAS is the Gaza 'government' and assumed to be in charge *inside* Gaza) has committed over a thousand war crimes and crimes against humanity recently.
No, it is true. The blockade collectively punishes over 1.7 million people who have committed no crimes. The occupation has been going on for 47 years now and makes the Pals daily life a living hell. Over 300 roadblocks and checkpoints restrict their freedom of movement ON THEIR OWN LAND! Administrative detention has been condemned by every human rights organization in the world. They shoot at people fishing. They shoot at people farming. They shoot at children looking for their loved ones. They constantly fire missiles into Gaza, no matter whether there is a truce or not. For almost half a century now, they've prevented the Palestinian's from enjoying the same human rights the rest of the world enjoys. And they run around acting like they can kill anyone they feel like killing.Second, "Israel is one of the biggest human rights abusers on the planet" is NOT true in comparison to ANY other state within the ME region -certainly not as compared to HAMAS. (I'm not saying they're perfect or even 'average' - just significantly better-behaved than the rest of the neighborhood)
If they're "indiscriminant", then they can't be targeted. And because they are "indiscriminant weapons", that makes them a war crime when fired. But the reason they are fired, is in response to Israeli military actions or the occupation itself. In both cases, it is considered resistance or self defense.Regardless of any HAMAS involvement in the kidnappings and murders of the three boys (one of whom was your and my fellow American citizen) - the rocket attacks alone were 'causus belli', very clearly so. You err in claiming they were "resistance" - because no "resistance" is legit when INDISCRIMINATELY TARGETING CIVILIANS as those rockets do.
I'll agree with that.It doesn't matter if no Israeli person nor property were harmed in the slightest: HAMAS is in the wrong for allowing those rockets to be fired across the border.
I'll concede the danger is real. Albeit not much of a danger.The danger those rockets pose is real. The POTENTIAL for damage, injury and loss of life is enough to justify a response.
Yes they have. They bomb a hospital and say there was munitions there, when there wasn't. This whole round of violence started with the deaths of the 3 teens, which Israel accused Hamas of being responsible. No evidence has been provided to date, justifying that claim. None. And yet, over 500 people are dead because of it. Israel deliberately murders innocent women and children, then try's to blame Hamas for the crimes by saying they use human shields. Well, earth to Israel, no one forced you to pull the trigger. Those were "your" decisions to fire, not Hamas. Israel is responsible for the killings.Israel has not 'lied' as you claim: instead, it is you who are still telling lies about Israel. Please stop: there's nothing to talk about until you do.
You see, there is a reason for that though. At one time Israel "appeared' to be the liberals' choice. In the '50s and '60s Israel claimed to represent Jews who, as a recently beleaguered minority were clearly deserving of liberal support. Israel never truly represented Jews (Jews can represent themselves just fine) and was never truly liberal (its creation dispossessed another people, the indigenous Palestinians), but with the socialist-oriented Labor party in power Israel was able to maintain a thin veneer or liberal acceptability to anyone who did not look to closely or think too deeply. But those days are long gone. For the last three decades, Israel has been trending right, and further right, and even righter still until the strongest parties are composed of extremely right wing interests succeeding those of the Irgun, Stern Gang, and Lehi (look 'em up) who were truly the jackbooted brownshirt contingent of the pre-independence Zionist militias, and have not become any more liberal since then. look at the political/military heritage of the last generation of Israeli leadership, beginning with Menachem Begin.Why My Fellow Liberals Should Support Israel in Her Conflict with Hamas
Posted: 11/20/2012 11:15 am
As an American liberal who loves Israel because I'm a liberal, I've been disturbed by the recent diminishing trend of American progressive support for the Jewish state in its decades-long conflict with its increasingly hostile neighbors.
Israel has the fourth largest military in the known universe, and bring it to bear in what is very obviously brutal repression of the indigenous people of the land they have grabbed, who are armed with stones and coffee cans full of fertilizer. In this era of video cameras, how could ANY sane-headed liberal hallucinate that Israel is the underdog? They never have been and are not currently. The liberal choice is not between uber-right wing Israel and regressive Hamas, it is between uber-right wing Israel and the Palestinian people.A recent CNN/ORC poll concerning the Gaza conflict intensified my anxiety: While a plurality of self-identified liberals and Democrats support Israel's right of self-defense in taking military action against Hamas, Democrats were three times more likely than Republicans to believe that the Jewish State is "not justified" in its targeted bombing campaign.
The roots of liberal sympathy for the radical, fundamentalist, brutal Hamas regime are as complex as they are troubling. We liberals love the underdog, and a media that rewards conflict over context has helped promote the perverse notion that the tiny nation with the Star of David on its flag is really the Goliath in the popular Biblical metaphor. This problem was exacerbated in Campaign 2012 when my fellow progressives watched a coterie of unlikeable, right-wing GOP presidential hopefuls proclaim their uber-passionate support for the Jewish State and try to use it as a political wedge against our beloved progressive President.
But amidst the shouting and finger-pointing, the fundamental reason behind the decline of American progressive support for Israel relates to a profound misunderstanding of the facts on the ground. When confronted with an accurate accounting of the differences between the two sides in the conflict, a true liberal must be compelled to embrace the Zionist cause.
Here are but a few examples:
Israel Values Human Life; Hamas Does Not
Israel tries to make it look like this:Israel's current intervention in Gaza is a living example of this principle. Understanding that any military action would provoke its international enemies, Israel simply could no longer tolerate the danger posed to its citizens -- Jews and Arabs -- by the many months of unprovoked bombing of civilian targets in Southern Israel by Hamas militants. Accordingly, Israel has engaged in a painstakingly-measured, precisely-targeted bombing campaign, using the most modern technology to carefully dismantle military targets and avoid civilian casualties. On Monday, for example, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) used pinpoint accuracy to destroy the second floor of a Gaza City office building, killing only the Islamic Jihad military leaders who had been responsible for training terrorists, planning attacks on Israeli civilians and manufacturing weapons.
Of course, there has been -- and will continue to e -- significant collateral damage; innocent Palestinians -- very, very regretfully -- have been killed in the bombing campaign. But their blood lies entirely in the hands of their Hamas leaders.
All of Gaza is a civilian area. There are no military areas allowed. IT IS A GIGANTIC CONCENTRATION CAMP:As the picture above taken by CNN's Anderson Cooper dramatically illustrates, Hamas has embedded its offensive military weaponry within highly populated civilian areas, with the complete knowledge -- and indeed, desired intent -- of provoking the IDF to unintentionally kill innocent Palestinians. Hamas' use of human shields -- its deliberate placement of innocent civilians near combat targets to either deter Israel from attacking those targets or to provoke international sympathy for mounting civilian death tolls -- is an indisputable war crime, a clear violation of the Geneva Convention.
What I have been reading is that they give an hour's advance notice before a strike, warning civilians to take cover.Furthermore, Hamas leaders have actually been daring Israel to launch a ground campaign that would necessarily lead to a significant increase in loss of life on both sides, especially among Palestinian civilians. nt anti-liberal provocations.
