Why Israel is Great and its Neighbors Aren't

[rtwngAvngr]

If we have to tell an ally not to fight despite their great eagerness to do so, I'd say that makes for a dependable, reliable ally. As it happens, Bush the elder saw a greater advantage politically (and possibly militarily) in having a variety of other Arab allys in exchange for Israel's immediate help, but there is no guarantee this will play out that way in future conflicts.

How does Israel benefit us? Well, if we're to reduce Israel's contribution to the world to our strategic gain, they provide us with a continuing source of intelligence in the region. Their presence provides us with a strategic toehold with which to project power in the region. Of course in a peaceful world in which war is held off, no ally has to actually sacrifice lives and effort, but even having them around can easily help one's own position.

I prefer to think of Israel in terms greater than their material aid to American policies. They're an outpost of of democracy and Western civilization in an otherwise crappy part of the world, surrounded by barbaric neighbors. Their record as a humane state is outstanding. If we're going to help and remain friendly with other nations based simply on their own basic decency, I can't think of many more deserving countries than Israel.

True. I just wish jews would seek to protect the last hope for a free and modern culture in the americas as well, The United States.

 

[Dr Grump]

True. I just wish jews would seek to protect the last hope for a free and modern culture in the americas as well, The United States.

Why single out the Americas?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Why single out the Americas?

 

[dilloduck]

Your argument is a better one for saying the Palestinians should stop whining about a "right of return" and East Jerusalem, no?

For Israel to survive as a democracy they have to keep out those who would vote differently. It's highly hypocritical to complain about Christian influence in America considering the influence that Judaism has over Israel. Can you imagine Israel being told to take down all the religious symbols in government or public places?

 

[jillian]

For Israel to survive as a democracy they have to keep out those who would vote differently. It's highly hypocritical to complain about Christian influence in America considering the influence that Judaism has over Israel. Can you imagine Israel being told to take down all the religious symbols in government or public places?

Israel is a Jewish state. People who take the position that it should allow itself to be destroyed because of the higher birthrates of Palestinians are either unattuned to what the ultimate result of that would be or want the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state.

Oh...and comparisons with this country, which was specifically created NOT to endorse a particular religion are fallacious.

 

[Annie]

Israel is a Jewish state. People who take the position that it should allow itself to be destroyed because of the higher birthrates of Palestinians are either unattuned to what the ultimate result of that would be or want the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state.

You mean like most of Europe, all the Middle East, and a great portion of the Americas? Is the UN going to deal with this? I doubt it, look at the condemnations of Israel, even US as chief protector can't stop any of this.

 

[jillian]

You mean like most of Europe, all the Middle East, and a great portion of the Americas? Is the UN going to deal with this? I doubt it, look at the condemnations of Israel, even US as chief protector can't stop any of this.

You ever see me argue otherwise?

 

[Annie]

You ever see me argue otherwise?

and that means what?

 

[jillian]

and that means what?

lol... just you're kinda preaching to the chior on that issue. I was responding to Dillo's points which seem to have more to do with his own personal thing. I'd have plenty to say about the security council resolutions in other contexts. I don't have any power over those resolutions, though, or the folk who make them.

 

[Annie]

lol... just you're kinda preaching to the chior on that issue. I was responding to Dillo's points which seem to have more to do with his own personal thing. I'd have plenty to say about the security council resolutions in other contexts. I don't have any power over those resolutions, though, or the folk who make them.

Cool, let's hear you dis the security council resolutions.

 

[dilloduck]

I would say it's a perfectly valid point that we support an officially Jewish state while at the same time vigorously defending the secularity of every other free country in the world. Valid, but insufficient. As much as an official state religion makes me cringe, having a religious group getting kicked around and half anihilated for centuries because they so often had no government protections makes me cringe even more. Since they built their country by honorable and correct means, I'm willing to give it a pass for now. I do prefer to see secular laws enforced however.

The founders of our country were not unfamilar with religious persection nor why Europeans came to America to settle. Jews don't have a monopoly on being persecuted. In thier fervor to protect the faithful of any religion, not just Christians, they established America. I find that even more honorable and correct. Too bad the trend now is to reduce the influence that Christianty has had on our culture because people are afraid of them. Some would argue that Christian influnce is what has kept our country alive.

 

[Annie]

The founders of our country were not unfamilar with religious persection nor why Europeans came to America to settle. Jews don't have a monopoly on being persecuted. In thier fervor to protect the faithful of any religion, not just Christians, they established America. I find that even more honorable and correct. Too bad the trend now is to reduce the influence that Christianty has had on our culture because people are afraid of them. Some would argue that Christian influnce is what has kept our country alive.

Are you claiming the first English settlers had in mind giving Jews a respite, not just Pilgrims? Or which 'non-Chrisitans' are you speaking of?

 

[dilloduck]

Are you claiming the first English settlers had in mind giving Jews a respite, not just Pilgrims? Or which 'non-Chrisitans' are you speaking of?

The founders of our country---they tried to create a situation where religions were not subjected or persecuted by a government claiming to have any spiritual authority or affiliation--zero.

 

[Annie]

The founders of our country---they tried to create a situation where religions were not subjected or persecuted by a government claiming to have any spiritual authority or affiliation--zero.

Really? You aren't referring to the Mayflower Compact are you? For your claim isn't quite on the mark there.

 

[dilloduck]

Really? You aren't referring to the Mayflower Compact are you? For your claim isn't quite on the mark there.

No, Kathianne,----I've stated who and what I was talking about twice now.
America protects the practice of all religions. Israel is an example of religious state. Christians may have to start to look for a state of thier own too.

 

[jillian]

No, Kathianne,----I've stated who and what I was talking about twice now.
America protects the practice of all religions. Israel is an example of religious state. Christians may have to start to look for a state of thier own too.

You mean every country that isn't Islamic and isn't Israel? :funnyface

 

[dilloduck]

You mean every country that isn't Islamic and isn't Israel? :funnyface

OH YA---all Catholics can move to the VATICAN !!!!

 

[jillian]

OH YA---all Catholics can move to the VATICAN !!!!

Oh I dunno....Church of England has a pretty strong grip on things. Ask the Irish Catholics.

 

[dilloduck]

Oh I dunno....Church of England has a pretty strong grip on things. Ask the Irish Catholics.

dang---the Christians are gonna have to get a big country to make em all content. Maybe they could just live here and have a symbolic country that they can be loyal too.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Israel is a Jewish state. People who take the position that it should allow itself to be destroyed because of the higher birthrates of Palestinians are either unattuned to what the ultimate result of that would be or want the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state.

Oh...and comparisons with this country, which was specifically created NOT to endorse a particular religion are fallacious.

So theocracies are not in your eyes morally inferior or superior. You just want america to stick with it's original choice. I see. Is that why the ADL get so foamy mouthed about "religious theocrats" in america? It's not that they're against theocracies, it's just that they're against change. Are you serious with this, jillian? I mean really. This is subpar argumentation.