Why Grand Juries Don't Indict Cops When They Kill

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Why Grand Juries Don t Indict Cops When They Kill




Police sometimes see things differently.

Former Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson told a grand jury that Michael Brown looked like a “demon” who might shrug off a hail of bullets before Wilson shot him dead. Shortly after Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann gunned down Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old holding a toy gun, he told the dispatcher that Rice, who was shot within two seconds of Loehmann’s arrival, was “maybe 20.” Milwaukee Police Officer Christopher Manney told investigators that Dontre Hamilton, an unarmed man whom he shot 14 times in October, was so “big” and “muscular” that “he would be impossible to control if you were one-man.” At 5-foot-7 and 180 pounds, Hamilton was below average height and overweight.

Wilson, Loehmann, and Manney are white, and Brown, Rice, and Hamilton were black. They were also unarmed. But in the eyes of the men who killed them, they were frightening enough to provoke the use of lethal force.

These lingering, sometimes unconscious biases help explain why police encounters with black men are so much more likely to end fatally. But it’s not only the perceptions of police that matter. Even after the fact, the American legal system consistently judges these decisions as reasonable, even when there is seemingly incontrovertible evidence that police acted irresponsibly.

On Wednesday, a grand jury declined to indict Daniel Pantaleo, the white Staten Island police officer with a past record of race-related misconduct who was caught on video putting Eric Garner in a chokehold that lead to Garner’s death during an arrest for selling loose cigarettes. On the video, which went viral, Garner can be heard yelling “I can’t breathe” over and over. Chokeholds have been banned by the New York Police Department for 20 years, and the coroner ruled Garner’s death a homicide. But as in Ferguson, the grand jury decided that no crime worth punishing had been committed. We don’t know what Pantaleo said to the grand jury, or why they let him off. But since killing an unarmed suspect is so rarely treated as a crime, there’s little reason for police to believe that it should be.

Police are empowered to use lethal force under certain circumstances, and sometimes, they have to. The Supreme Court has held that police can use lethal force if they have a “reasonable belief” they are facing danger or if a fleeing suspect poses a danger to others. But it’s not just the beliefs of police that matter. It is also the beliefs of the citizens empowered to evaluate their decisions after the fact. And Americans almost always decide that police use of lethal force is reasonable. Given the fact that blacks are several times more likely than whites to be killed by police, that inevitably means that it’s often the deaths of black men that are deemed justified.

It is difficult to know how many people are killed by police each year, because despite police and their advocates’ affinity for the phrase “data-driven policing,” how many times police kill people is data they simply haven’t gotten around to properly gathering yet.

Police sometimes kill unarmed white men, like Dillon Taylor in Utah. But the flawed data we have shows police kill white people far less often than they kill black people relative to their proportion of the population. That white men are also harmed by a system that disproportionately allows black men to be killed with impunity does not exonerate the system.

This has something to do with the way police see things. Police are people, after all, subject to the same flaws and vices as the rest of us. America’s police departments tend to be whiter than the general population, and nearly half of whites believe“many” or “almost all” black men are violent. Whites overestimate the amount of crime, in particular violent crime, involving blacks. Whites are also more likely to ascribe supernatural physical abilities to black people, in particular the ability to resist physical pain, a stereotype that harkens back to slavery. Black children like Tamir Rice are “more likely to be mistaken as older, be perceived as guilty and face police violence if accused of a crime.”

“Reasonable,” of course, is a subjective standard — even as a legal definition. Civil society decides what “reasonable” means, and when citizens make that decision, they almost always side with the police, even when the deceased is white. But when society weighs whether the deaths of black men at the hands of police are reasonable, it does so with the additional burden of American beliefs about black criminality, black superstrength, black dangerousness. On the other side are our collective beliefs about police, seen as more noble, more selfless, and more resistant to all-too-human flaws like wrath or deceit.

Small wonder, then, that the scales of justice are so often unbalanced.


Notice there wasnt one word about "racism" or "racist". Because honestly its not about that its more about the biases and stereotypes that people have that determines their actions...just like everyone else.
 
Why Grand Juries Don t Indict Cops When They Kill




Police sometimes see things differently.

Former Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson told a grand jury that Michael Brown looked like a “demon” who might shrug off a hail of bullets before Wilson shot him dead. Shortly after Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann gunned down Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old holding a toy gun, he told the dispatcher that Rice, who was shot within two seconds of Loehmann’s arrival, was “maybe 20.” Milwaukee Police Officer Christopher Manney told investigators that Dontre Hamilton, an unarmed man whom he shot 14 times in October, was so “big” and “muscular” that “he would be impossible to control if you were one-man.” At 5-foot-7 and 180 pounds, Hamilton was below average height and overweight.

Wilson, Loehmann, and Manney are white, and Brown, Rice, and Hamilton were black. They were also unarmed. But in the eyes of the men who killed them, they were frightening enough to provoke the use of lethal force.

These lingering, sometimes unconscious biases help explain why police encounters with black men are so much more likely to end fatally. But it’s not only the perceptions of police that matter. Even after the fact, the American legal system consistently judges these decisions as reasonable, even when there is seemingly incontrovertible evidence that police acted irresponsibly.

On Wednesday, a grand jury declined to indict Daniel Pantaleo, the white Staten Island police officer with a past record of race-related misconduct who was caught on video putting Eric Garner in a chokehold that lead to Garner’s death during an arrest for selling loose cigarettes. On the video, which went viral, Garner can be heard yelling “I can’t breathe” over and over. Chokeholds have been banned by the New York Police Department for 20 years, and the coroner ruled Garner’s death a homicide. But as in Ferguson, the grand jury decided that no crime worth punishing had been committed. We don’t know what Pantaleo said to the grand jury, or why they let him off. But since killing an unarmed suspect is so rarely treated as a crime, there’s little reason for police to believe that it should be.

Police are empowered to use lethal force under certain circumstances, and sometimes, they have to. The Supreme Court has held that police can use lethal force if they have a “reasonable belief” they are facing danger or if a fleeing suspect poses a danger to others. But it’s not just the beliefs of police that matter. It is also the beliefs of the citizens empowered to evaluate their decisions after the fact. And Americans almost always decide that police use of lethal force is reasonable. Given the fact that blacks are several times more likely than whites to be killed by police, that inevitably means that it’s often the deaths of black men that are deemed justified.

It is difficult to know how many people are killed by police each year, because despite police and their advocates’ affinity for the phrase “data-driven policing,” how many times police kill people is data they simply haven’t gotten around to properly gathering yet.

Police sometimes kill unarmed white men, like Dillon Taylor in Utah. But the flawed data we have shows police kill white people far less often than they kill black people relative to their proportion of the population. That white men are also harmed by a system that disproportionately allows black men to be killed with impunity does not exonerate the system.

This has something to do with the way police see things. Police are people, after all, subject to the same flaws and vices as the rest of us. America’s police departments tend to be whiter than the general population, and nearly half of whites believe“many” or “almost all” black men are violent. Whites overestimate the amount of crime, in particular violent crime, involving blacks. Whites are also more likely to ascribe supernatural physical abilities to black people, in particular the ability to resist physical pain, a stereotype that harkens back to slavery. Black children like Tamir Rice are “more likely to be mistaken as older, be perceived as guilty and face police violence if accused of a crime.”

“Reasonable,” of course, is a subjective standard — even as a legal definition. Civil society decides what “reasonable” means, and when citizens make that decision, they almost always side with the police, even when the deceased is white. But when society weighs whether the deaths of black men at the hands of police are reasonable, it does so with the additional burden of American beliefs about black criminality, black superstrength, black dangerousness. On the other side are our collective beliefs about police, seen as more noble, more selfless, and more resistant to all-too-human flaws like wrath or deceit.

Small wonder, then, that the scales of justice are so often unbalanced.


Notice there wasnt one word about "racism" or "racist". Because honestly its not about that its more about the biases and stereotypes that people have that determines their actions...just like everyone else.


Don't you EVER get tired of writing all this racist bullshit?
 
Why Grand Juries Don t Indict Cops When They Kill




Police sometimes see things differently.

Former Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson told a grand jury that Michael Brown looked like a “demon” who might shrug off a hail of bullets before Wilson shot him dead. Shortly after Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann gunned down Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old holding a toy gun, he told the dispatcher that Rice, who was shot within two seconds of Loehmann’s arrival, was “maybe 20.” Milwaukee Police Officer Christopher Manney told investigators that Dontre Hamilton, an unarmed man whom he shot 14 times in October, was so “big” and “muscular” that “he would be impossible to control if you were one-man.” At 5-foot-7 and 180 pounds, Hamilton was below average height and overweight.

Wilson, Loehmann, and Manney are white, and Brown, Rice, and Hamilton were black. They were also unarmed. But in the eyes of the men who killed them, they were frightening enough to provoke the use of lethal force.

These lingering, sometimes unconscious biases help explain why police encounters with black men are so much more likely to end fatally. But it’s not only the perceptions of police that matter. Even after the fact, the American legal system consistently judges these decisions as reasonable, even when there is seemingly incontrovertible evidence that police acted irresponsibly.

On Wednesday, a grand jury declined to indict Daniel Pantaleo, the white Staten Island police officer with a past record of race-related misconduct who was caught on video putting Eric Garner in a chokehold that lead to Garner’s death during an arrest for selling loose cigarettes. On the video, which went viral, Garner can be heard yelling “I can’t breathe” over and over. Chokeholds have been banned by the New York Police Department for 20 years, and the coroner ruled Garner’s death a homicide. But as in Ferguson, the grand jury decided that no crime worth punishing had been committed. We don’t know what Pantaleo said to the grand jury, or why they let him off. But since killing an unarmed suspect is so rarely treated as a crime, there’s little reason for police to believe that it should be.

Police are empowered to use lethal force under certain circumstances, and sometimes, they have to. The Supreme Court has held that police can use lethal force if they have a “reasonable belief” they are facing danger or if a fleeing suspect poses a danger to others. But it’s not just the beliefs of police that matter. It is also the beliefs of the citizens empowered to evaluate their decisions after the fact. And Americans almost always decide that police use of lethal force is reasonable. Given the fact that blacks are several times more likely than whites to be killed by police, that inevitably means that it’s often the deaths of black men that are deemed justified.

It is difficult to know how many people are killed by police each year, because despite police and their advocates’ affinity for the phrase “data-driven policing,” how many times police kill people is data they simply haven’t gotten around to properly gathering yet.

Police sometimes kill unarmed white men, like Dillon Taylor in Utah. But the flawed data we have shows police kill white people far less often than they kill black people relative to their proportion of the population. That white men are also harmed by a system that disproportionately allows black men to be killed with impunity does not exonerate the system.

This has something to do with the way police see things. Police are people, after all, subject to the same flaws and vices as the rest of us. America’s police departments tend to be whiter than the general population, and nearly half of whites believe“many” or “almost all” black men are violent. Whites overestimate the amount of crime, in particular violent crime, involving blacks. Whites are also more likely to ascribe supernatural physical abilities to black people, in particular the ability to resist physical pain, a stereotype that harkens back to slavery. Black children like Tamir Rice are “more likely to be mistaken as older, be perceived as guilty and face police violence if accused of a crime.”

“Reasonable,” of course, is a subjective standard — even as a legal definition. Civil society decides what “reasonable” means, and when citizens make that decision, they almost always side with the police, even when the deceased is white. But when society weighs whether the deaths of black men at the hands of police are reasonable, it does so with the additional burden of American beliefs about black criminality, black superstrength, black dangerousness. On the other side are our collective beliefs about police, seen as more noble, more selfless, and more resistant to all-too-human flaws like wrath or deceit.

Small wonder, then, that the scales of justice are so often unbalanced.


Notice there wasnt one word about "racism" or "racist". Because honestly its not about that its more about the biases and stereotypes that people have that determines their actions...just like everyone else.


Don't you EVER get tired of writing all this racist bullshit?


I'll say it again because you didnt even read it:

Notice there wasnt one word about "racism" or "racist". Because honestly its not about that its more about the biases and stereotypes that people have that determines their actions...just like everyone else. I didnt write it...contact Buzzfeed and court filings and tell them their data is "racist"

Good luck
 
Grand Juries are not influenced by internet opinion.

The Grand Jury in the Garner case knew that Garner was not killed by a chokehold. No matter how many internet experts say so. The Grand Jury reviews the real evidence, not made up internet evidence.
 
The premise of the thread is false.

List of cases of police brutality in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Now, if you want to contend that police are less likely to get indicted than the general population, that may be true and might even be statistically verifiable. But there are a whole array of complex and inter-related reasons for this, and "bias" is not necessarily one of the bigger reasons. Neither is "race."
 
The premise of the thread is false.

List of cases of police brutality in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Now, if you want to contend that police are less likely to get indicted than the general population, that may be true and might even be statistically verifiable. But there are a whole array of complex and inter-related reasons for this, and "bias" is not necessarily one of the bigger reasons. Neither is "race."

How do you tell what issue is bigger than another? That statement could be true if it was verifiable but it always confuses me when someone tells you something ISNT but are unable to tell you what it IS
 
Why is it that left wingers seem to accept the dumb assed media's defense of federal atrocities but they refuse to accept the verdicts of the Grand Jury?
 
Grand Juries are not influenced by internet opinion.

The Grand Jury in the Garner case knew that Garner was not killed by a chokehold. No matter how many internet experts say so. The Grand Jury reviews the real evidence, not made up internet evidence.


Grand juries are not sequestered and are influenced by the same things everyone else is, Sparky.
 
Grand Juries are not influenced by internet opinion.

The Grand Jury in the Garner case knew that Garner was not killed by a chokehold. No matter how many internet experts say so. The Grand Jury reviews the real evidence, not made up internet evidence.


Grand juries are not sequestered and are influenced by the same things everyone else is, Sparky.

While it appears that the police officer used improper (and unnecessary) force, it does not appear that Garner was "choked to death." More likely, he suffered a collapsed trachea which subsequently led to his death. In that case, involuntary manslaughter would have been the only possible criminal charge that could have been brought.

I am no fan of Grand Juries, which tend to be rubber stamps for D.A.s, but there is some reason to give police the benefit of the doubt in deciding whether to criminally prosecute these cases. On the other hand, I assume the officer involved will never work in law enforcement again and will be subject to a civil lawsuit.
 
The premise of the thread is false.

List of cases of police brutality in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Now, if you want to contend that police are less likely to get indicted than the general population, that may be true and might even be statistically verifiable. But there are a whole array of complex and inter-related reasons for this, and "bias" is not necessarily one of the bigger reasons. Neither is "race."

How do you tell what issue is bigger than another? That statement could be true if it was verifiable but it always confuses me when someone tells you something ISNT but are unable to tell you what it IS

LOL. That was cute. Incoherent, but adorable.

The use of the term "bigger" was used to convey that the "thing" or "trait" was a reason less important to the outcome than other factors.

Why would you ASSume that "RACE" was much of a factor at all? I'm just SURE that you CAN quantify THAT!

And by the way, I didn't say what "isn't." What I DID contend was that it isn't NECESSARILY so. From experience, I have concluded that EVIDENCE and/or LACK of EVIDENCE and an understanding of the LAW matters very much to members of a Grand Jury.

That doesn't mean that bias (racial or otherwise) cannot creep in. But if you have a valid basis for contending that racist thinking is a significant factor in Grand Jury determinations about cases of alleged police criminal behavior, I have yet to read it in any of your posts.
 
LOL. That was cute. Incoherent, but adorable.

The use of the term "bigger" was used to convey that the "thing" or "trait" was a reason less important to the outcome than other factors.

Why would you ASSume that "RACE" was much of a factor at all? I'm just SURE that you CAN quantify THAT!

I sure can. The fact that aggressive policing most often occurs when they are in contact with a black person statistically would tell you. I'm not going to say that race played a bigger part than something else because theres no data on those "something elses".

So I'll go on the data we have. Seems legit right?



And by the way, I didn't say what "isn't." What I DID contend was that it isn't NECESSARILY so. From experience, I have concluded that EVIDENCE and/or LACK of EVIDENCE and an understanding of the LAW matters very much to members of a Grand Jury.

I know, thats kinda like a girlfriend. She'll talk all day about what she didnt say but declines to say what is really meant. And since there is no "proof" of racism or bias. Thats an easy go to despite the data. Everyone who objects says "That doesnt MEAN it RACIST". But when asked what definitively 100% IS racist no one can answer...but we all know

That doesn't mean that bias (racial or otherwise) cannot creep in. But if you have a valid basis for contending that racist thinking is a significant factor in Grand Jury determinations about cases of alleged police criminal behavior, I have yet to read it in any of your posts.

Once again because if you are looking for "proof of racism" you have to first tell me what proof of racism looks like?

A white hood? No, maybe its just a hood
Using the N word? meh, maybe he has the infamous "black best friend"

Hang someone in a tree? Maybe it was a personal dispute.

So what does proof of racism looks like?
 
"nearly half of whites believe“many” or “almost all” black men are violent."


Small wonder, then, that the scales of justice are so often unbalanced.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the astronomical crime rate among young black men, it is amazing that half of whites don't believe that many black men are violent. What PC planet do you live on?
 
LOL. That was cute. Incoherent, but adorable.

The use of the term "bigger" was used to convey that the "thing" or "trait" was a reason less important to the outcome than other factors.

Why would you ASSume that "RACE" was much of a factor at all? I'm just SURE that you CAN quantify THAT!

I sure can. The fact that aggressive policing most often occurs when they are in contact with a black person statistically would tell you. I'm not going to say that race played a bigger part than something else because theres no data on those "something elses".

So I'll go on the data we have. Seems legit right?



And by the way, I didn't say what "isn't." What I DID contend was that it isn't NECESSARILY so. From experience, I have concluded that EVIDENCE and/or LACK of EVIDENCE and an understanding of the LAW matters very much to members of a Grand Jury.

I know, thats kinda like a girlfriend. She'll talk all day about what she didnt say but declines to say what is really meant. And since there is no "proof" of racism or bias. Thats an easy go to despite the data. Everyone who objects says "That doesnt MEAN it RACIST". But when asked what definitively 100% IS racist no one can answer...but we all know

That doesn't mean that bias (racial or otherwise) cannot creep in. But if you have a valid basis for contending that racist thinking is a significant factor in Grand Jury determinations about cases of alleged police criminal behavior, I have yet to read it in any of your posts.

Once again because if you are looking for "proof of racism" you have to first tell me what proof of racism looks like?

A white hood? No, maybe its just a hood
Using the N word? meh, maybe he has the infamous "black best friend"

Hang someone in a tree? Maybe it was a personal dispute.

So what does proof of racism looks like?
 
"nearly half of whites believe“many” or “almost all” black men are violent."


Small wonder, then, that the scales of justice are so often unbalanced.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the astronomical crime rate among young black men, it is amazing that half of whites don't believe that many black men are violent. What PC planet do you live on?

Wait, what about the belief in super human strength and being impervious to pain? Those are valid too?

What about seeing black boys as being men? Blacks fault too?

What about Wilson saying he felt like a 5 year old next to someone 10 years younger and the same size? That super strength again?
 
Shit nearly all cases of Animal fucking involves whites but you wouldntbe saying "good point" if I treated you like an Animal fucker
 
Almost every school shooter has been white. But I can hear the cries now if there was a policy of patting down only whites
 
"nearly half of whites believe“many” or “almost all” black men are violent."


Small wonder, then, that the scales of justice are so often unbalanced.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the astronomical crime rate among young black men, it is amazing that half of whites don't believe that many black men are violent. What PC planet do you live on?

Wait, what about the belief in super human strength and being impervious to pain? Those are valid too?

What about seeing black boys as being men? Blacks fault too?

What about Wilson saying he felt like a 5 year old next to someone 10 years younger and the same size? That super strength again?

So do YOU believe that "many black men are violent?" (That is a YES or NO question, just like in the purported poll/survey.) Or are you afraid to answer that question?
 
"nearly half of whites believe“many” or “almost all” black men are violent."


Small wonder, then, that the scales of justice are so often unbalanced.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the astronomical crime rate among young black men, it is amazing that half of whites don't believe that many black men are violent. What PC planet do you live on?

Wait, what about the belief in super human strength and being impervious to pain? Those are valid too?

What about seeing black boys as being men? Blacks fault too?

What about Wilson saying he felt like a 5 year old next to someone 10 years younger and the same size? That super strength again?

So do YOU believe that "many black men are violent?" (That is a YES or NO question, just like in the purported poll/survey.) Or are you afraid to answer?

No just like I dont believe many whites are Fucking animals in the ass.

also please be sure to remember that what we are talking about also is ACTING on those fears. Which in the case of blacks with police means they wont be so nice up front.

Just think about if you asked to pet my dog and how I might treat you when asked. Would I welcome it or be wary about the impending ass fucking
 
"nearly half of whites believe“many” or “almost all” black men are violent."


Small wonder, then, that the scales of justice are so often unbalanced.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the astronomical crime rate among young black men, it is amazing that half of whites don't believe that many black men are violent. What PC planet do you live on?

Wait, what about the belief in super human strength and being impervious to pain? Those are valid too?

What about seeing black boys as being men? Blacks fault too?

What about Wilson saying he felt like a 5 year old next to someone 10 years younger and the same size? That super strength again?

So do YOU believe that "many black men are violent?" (That is a YES or NO question, just like in the purported poll/survey.) Or are you afraid to answer?

No just like I dont believe many whites are Fucking animals in the ass.

Then why don't we disband the police and hire a bunch of social workers for these areas?

P.S. What is up with you and the incessant potty talk?
 
"nearly half of whites believe“many” or “almost all” black men are violent."


Small wonder, then, that the scales of justice are so often unbalanced.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the astronomical crime rate among young black men, it is amazing that half of whites don't believe that many black men are violent. What PC planet do you live on?

Wait, what about the belief in super human strength and being impervious to pain? Those are valid too?

What about seeing black boys as being men? Blacks fault too?

What about Wilson saying he felt like a 5 year old next to someone 10 years younger and the same size? That super strength again?

So do YOU believe that "many black men are violent?" (That is a YES or NO question, just like in the purported poll/survey.) Or are you afraid to answer?

No just like I dont believe many whites are Fucking animals in the ass.

Then why don't we disband the police and hire a bunch of social workers for these areas?

P.S. What is up with you and the incessant potty talk?


The same reason we dont get rid of Animal Abuse departments and send in PETA
 
In 1997 a Boundary County Idaho Grand Jury indicted FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi for manslaughter for the shooting death of Randy Weaver's wife shot in the face while she was holding a 18 month old infant in her arms during the infamous "Ruby Ridge Siege" in 1991. The case was immediately shifted to the Federal Court and quietly dismissed on a federal statute of something called "sovereign immunity". Not much outrage or even concern in the media at the time and apparently celebrated by the radical left.
 

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