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Yes, there is a lot of ego and bullshit floating around, Rosie. And of course there are good men involved in trying to help women with no voice in other countries. Good people. However, the question of this thread was why FEMINISTS are not spending all their energy on changing that culture and religion rather than their own problems in their own backyard. That was the question. So that was my response.I am not a feminist, just a woman. It is interesting though, that the OP asked a question and when a woman did answer it was immediately shot down as lies by men who are definitely NOT feminists and had no business trying to answer the question anyway.Um, no, feminists don't. Feminists have taken Muslim women into the "women's marches" with seemingly little question as to how women are treated in Islam. And women are treated much worse in Islam, worldwide, than they are treated in Christianity. Honor killings, FGM, stonings, can't drive, work, walk without a man down the street.
I realize you are probably suffering from mental illness so I'm bracing myself for any personal attack with profanity you will launch at me as a result.
Why this comparative-religion BS? Oppression of women goes on worldwide and among all religions, including among "Christians" here in the U.S. who push and propagandize for male patriarchy and make no secret of it. You have to admit that the patriarchal system is based on the presence or absence of a penis.
This "oh, the Muslims are worse" is a raw attempt at deflection. If Muslim women wish to join marches for women's equality wherever they occur, this is their prerogative. I see that women across the world are on the march.
BTW: the practices you seemingly object to are from primitive tribal areas in places like Pakistan and in Africa. They are not products of Islam per se, but originate in tribal customs. This blend of religion and tribal customs goes on all over, including in the U.S.
How typical your diatribe, and how typically sad that Old Lady and Coyote said "thank you", not apparently seeing the difference between whatever "patriarchy" you all cry about in the US and honor killings, stonings, burka wearing and whatnot.
It just makes feminism into an utter joke.
There are many, many women fighting for the safety and the equality of Muslim women. They are risking their lives, some of them, to educate the girls and help the women who have been abused. Women in this country and all over the world are trying to stop FGM. What do you think Michele Obama's tour in Africa was all about? Women will not be free until they can be educated. One step at a time.
I am a woman too. I would not credit WOMEN entirely for the
fight to educate women and end FGM-----actually there are lots of
men involved. All together there are really not a whole lot of either.
As to the CURRENT USA feminism thing------it is chock full of
EGO AND BULLSHIT------and BEYOND ME-TOO......... more like
ME ME ME AND ONLY ME and MY POLITICS
We all have the tendency to spout our own politics, though. I don't see what your point is there.
Well, at least they answered the question posed in the o.p. As we can see, it is a combination of stupidity and dishonesty with a corresponding lack of moral clarity.This is a ridiculous attempt at deflection. Feminists fight all misconduct and attacks against women. What people who ask the absurd question posed by the OP are saying is "why don't you go away and complain about Muslims and let us sick fuckers alone to get away with anything we want with regard to mistreating women of any and all faiths." No faith should be singled out as being more oppressive. It's a dodge for men of all other faiths to prevent their misbehavior from being noticed and confronted.
Um, no, feminists don't. Feminists have taken Muslim women into the "women's marches" with seemingly little question as to how women are treated in Islam. And women are treated much worse in Islam, worldwide, than they are treated in Christianity. Honor killings, FGM, stonings, can't drive, work, walk without a man down the street.
I realize you are probably suffering from mental illness so I'm bracing myself for any personal attack with profanity you will launch at me as a result.
Why this comparative-religion BS? Oppression of women goes on worldwide and among all religions, including among "Christians" here in the U.S. who push and propagandize for male patriarchy and make no secret of it. You have to admit that the patriarchal system is based on the presence or absence of a penis.
This "oh, the Muslims are worse" is a raw attempt at deflection. If Muslim women wish to join marches for women's equality wherever they occur, this is their prerogative. I see that women across the world are on the march.
BTW: the practices you seemingly object to are from primitive tribal areas in places like Pakistan and in Africa. They are not products of Islam per se, but originate in tribal customs. This blend of religion and tribal customs goes on all over, including in the U.S.
How typical your diatribe, and how typically sad that Old Lady and Coyote said "thank you", not apparently seeing the difference between whatever "patriarchy" you all cry about in the US and honor killings, stonings, burka wearing and whatnot.
It just makes feminism into an utter joke.
You know, old lady, hating men does not make you a feminist any more than your opposing free speech and support for systems of racial privilege makes you a liberal.I am not a feminist, just a woman. It is interesting though, that the OP asked a question and when a woman did answer it was immediately shot down as lies by men who are definitely NOT feminists and had no business trying to answer the question anyway.This is a ridiculous attempt at deflection. Feminists fight all misconduct and attacks against women. What people who ask the absurd question posed by the OP are saying is "why don't you go away and complain about Muslims and let us sick fuckers alone to get away with anything we want with regard to mistreating women of any and all faiths." No faith should be singled out as being more oppressive. It's a dodge for men of all other faiths to prevent their misbehavior from being noticed and confronted.
Um, no, feminists don't. Feminists have taken Muslim women into the "women's marches" with seemingly little question as to how women are treated in Islam. And women are treated much worse in Islam, worldwide, than they are treated in Christianity. Honor killings, FGM, stonings, can't drive, work, walk without a man down the street.
I realize you are probably suffering from mental illness so I'm bracing myself for any personal attack with profanity you will launch at me as a result.
Why this comparative-religion BS? Oppression of women goes on worldwide and among all religions, including among "Christians" here in the U.S. who push and propagandize for male patriarchy and make no secret of it. You have to admit that the patriarchal system is based on the presence or absence of a penis.
This "oh, the Muslims are worse" is a raw attempt at deflection. If Muslim women wish to join marches for women's equality wherever they occur, this is their prerogative. I see that women across the world are on the march.
BTW: the practices you seemingly object to are from primitive tribal areas in places like Pakistan and in Africa. They are not products of Islam per se, but originate in tribal customs. This blend of religion and tribal customs goes on all over, including in the U.S.
How typical your diatribe, and how typically sad that Old Lady and Coyote said "thank you", not apparently seeing the difference between whatever "patriarchy" you all cry about in the US and honor killings, stonings, burka wearing and whatnot.
It just makes feminism into an utter joke.
There are many, many women fighting for the safety and the equality of Muslim women. They are risking their lives, some of them, to educate the girls and help the women who have been abused. Women in this country and all over the world are trying to stop FGM. What do you think Michele Obama's tour in Africa was all about? Women will not be free until they can be educated. One step at a time.
What's wrong with old white men?
Who said muslim men who abuse women are good?
They are fundamentalists every bit as incapable of reason as the most entrenched bible thumper on the right.
The OP is the one deflecting. If it is so fucking important to y'all, why don't YOU work on making life equitable for Muslim women? You're the ones in charge, aren't you? Are only women smart enough to solve this problem?
Incorrect. They don’t fight misconduct and attacks against conservative women or any women they just don’t like. In those cases they join in.This is a ridiculous attempt at deflection. Feminists fight all misconduct and attacks against women. What people who ask the absurd question posed by the OP are saying is "why don't you go away and complain about Muslims and let us sick fuckers alone to get away with anything we want with regard to mistreating women of any and all faiths." No faith should be singled out as being more oppressive. It's a dodge for men of all other faiths to prevent their misbehavior from being noticed and confronted.
It seems like everyone is assuming the claim that American women, who fight for women's rights (what I consider feminists) don't care or do anything about women's rights around the world is accurate. Though the OP specifically targeted Muslim women (as if non-Muslim women couldn't possibly be as oppressed) - I'll assume that the OP is really concerned about the status of all women around the world, not just Muslim women.
So ARE feminists ignoring the plight of women outside their country? I'm going to say yes and no. For one thing, most women are first and formost concerned about their own communities and nations, that's natural - put your own house in order first...and, probably more important - no country likes a bunch of outsiders telling them what to do - change comes from within, with the help of others when asked for. Secondly - among feminists there are the Screamers and the Doers. One makes a lot of noise. The other makes change.
So are the Doers ignoring women's issues in some of these problematic countries and cultures?
IMO - there are many issues facing women around the world, far more serious than wearing a hijab (that's more of a "Screamer" thing where the other side screams about women in western countries choosing to wear a hijab claiming she is oppresssed while ignoring very real oppression elsewhere).
Top issues facing women?
Forced and underage marriages and child bearing
Education (lack of, inability to get, being killed for attempting to get it)
Sexual trafficking of vulnerable women.
Violence on women and lack of legal recourse or protection.
The first two are most important - they are the single most determiner of whether a women is able to escape poverty or cultural oppression. An education makes her a value added commodity, rather than a daughter to sell in marriage. Under age marriages in most cases curtail a woman's education and tie her to a life of domestic drudgery. We won't even talk about the toll child bearing has on a young girls body.
Are feminists ignoring it? Well...you might hate Hillary Clinton, but she has steadily and strongly advocated for women's rights around the world, for many years. I would call her a feminist.
Clinton on women's rights, Middle East peace
And for those that think this only happens in "shithole" countries...no...it does not. Here is a woman (a feminist) trying to put an end to it here: Raped and wed by 11, woman fights to end child marriage - CNN
Frankly...I do wish more American feminists would make more noise about things like this, but it doesn't seem to be as newsworth as "me too".
Here we have a group of women, including American women (and given they are advocating for women's rights, I'd call them feminists) - working to improve education for girls around the world: 15 women leading the way for girls’ education.
Sure it's not as visible as say the right to drive in Saudi Arabia, but it is foundational change in some of the most oppressive parts of the world for women.
So...I would not say feminists don't fight for some of the most oppressed women in the world...they do, by fighting for the sorts of changes that make long term differences, by giving women the tools they need to advocate for further change (education, independence). They just aren't noisy about it and nobody wears pink pussy hats.
I'm not sure that there are too many women feminists, outside the hard core lesbian crowd of course. When was the last time you saw a woman opening a door for a man? Never?
Disabled people don't count, that's not being a feminist, that's just acting like a normal human being.I'm not sure that there are too many women feminists, outside the hard core lesbian crowd of course. When was the last time you saw a woman opening a door for a man? Never?
I do it sometimes for disabled men ------SHEEEEESH -----opening the door for a man-----be careful----some men feel a little awkward or
insulted about it. The CUSTOM in the USA is for men to do the opening. -----makes them feel MACHO
I'm not sure that there are too many women feminists, outside the hard core lesbian crowd of course. When was the last time you saw a woman opening a door for a man? Never?
Women just want to get paid the same as men for the same job, which is cool. But all that other stuff like taking their coat, opening a door, pouring their wine, paying the restaurant tab, ... they all still want that to continue. That's what feminism is today.I'm not sure that there are too many women feminists, outside the hard core lesbian crowd of course. When was the last time you saw a woman opening a door for a man? Never?
I have women opening the door for me all the time. They don't do it because they are one of these mythical feminists of yours but because they are polite. I open the door for everybody, myself, whether male or female.
I'm not threatened by feminism at all and support true feminism, which is simply one of the egalitarian sub sets of humanism. The problem, here, is one of perception where braying idiots like those in this thread have come to define the term instead of the real ones like Sue.
As far as the subject matter, one of the most prominent feminists to arise from the Muslim world is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Not a single leftist on this board has offered support for her, and many have said some really nasty things about her. Again, these low quality individuals are not motivated one little bit by principles and are merely indulging in the most sim[plastic manner of identity politics.
That ISN'T what feminism is all about. If anybody here wants a good read from an actual feminist approaching the double standards now hardwired into the left, I would recommend Susan Moller Olsen. She gets it even if the fake feminists on this board don't.
StarShip Troopers would never have a problem with something as "silly" as that.You’re not?nobody is claiming women Having to cover up is any form of freedom or equality.
How about the way women are treated in Hindu countries? Or Christian countries on Africa? Or Buddhist countries in Asia? Dont they deserve your concern? Human trafficking, violence against women, rape, forced marriages and child marriages are rife in those areas. Seems to your very limited concern parallels that of the feminists you criticize.It seems like everyone is assuming the claim that American women, who fight for women's rights (what I consider feminists) don't care or do anything about women's rights around the world is accurate. Though the OP specifically targeted Muslim women (as if non-Muslim women couldn't possibly be as oppressed) - I'll assume that the OP is really concerned about the status of all women around the world, not just Muslim women.
So ARE feminists ignoring the plight of women outside their country? I'm going to say yes and no. For one thing, most women are first and formost concerned about their own communities and nations, that's natural - put your own house in order first...and, probably more important - no country likes a bunch of outsiders telling them what to do - change comes from within, with the help of others when asked for. Secondly - among feminists there are the Screamers and the Doers. One makes a lot of noise. The other makes change.
So are the Doers ignoring women's issues in some of these problematic countries and cultures?
IMO - there are many issues facing women around the world, far more serious than wearing a hijab (that's more of a "Screamer" thing where the other side screams about women in western countries choosing to wear a hijab claiming she is oppresssed while ignoring very real oppression elsewhere).
Top issues facing women?
Forced and underage marriages and child bearing
Education (lack of, inability to get, being killed for attempting to get it)
Sexual trafficking of vulnerable women.
Violence on women and lack of legal recourse or protection.
The first two are most important - they are the single most determiner of whether a women is able to escape poverty or cultural oppression. An education makes her a value added commodity, rather than a daughter to sell in marriage. Under age marriages in most cases curtail a woman's education and tie her to a life of domestic drudgery. We won't even talk about the toll child bearing has on a young girls body.
Are feminists ignoring it? Well...you might hate Hillary Clinton, but she has steadily and strongly advocated for women's rights around the world, for many years. I would call her a feminist.
Clinton on women's rights, Middle East peace
And for those that think this only happens in "shithole" countries...no...it does not. Here is a woman (a feminist) trying to put an end to it here: Raped and wed by 11, woman fights to end child marriage - CNN
Frankly...I do wish more American feminists would make more noise about things like this, but it doesn't seem to be as newsworth as "me too".
Here we have a group of women, including American women (and given they are advocating for women's rights, I'd call them feminists) - working to improve education for girls around the world: 15 women leading the way for girls’ education.
Sure it's not as visible as say the right to drive in Saudi Arabia, but it is foundational change in some of the most oppressive parts of the world for women.
So...I would not say feminists don't fight for some of the most oppressed women in the world...they do, by fighting for the sorts of changes that make long term differences, by giving women the tools they need to advocate for further change (education, independence). They just aren't noisy about it and nobody wears pink pussy hats.
Third wave "feminists" would rather cry about "Baby It's Cold Outside" and some boss who looked at them wrong twenty years ago than deal with real problems women have anywhere in the world. Real problems:
Human trafficking
How many women are treated in Islam
But the women in third wave "feminism" are children, so they can't even talk about real problems to be honest. They talk about the boo-boos on their finger. Make your own comparison there.
