Why do the Democrats keep saying the Republicans want to end medicare or S.S.

[Old Rocks]

Which language would you like to learn? Cutting the military sounds so damned easy, until you need them.

Come on Ollie. Save us the fear mongering

You want to know what sized military we really need to protect the US from being invaded?

We need about twenty multiple warhead atomic weapons

That's why Russia is so strong today, right?

Since I work for a Russian company, I can tell you that Russia is stronger today than they were at the time of the breakup of the USSR. Still to autocratic, but they are now exploiting the vast territory that has been unexploited until now. And they are forming their own multi-national corperations that are doing very well. Particularly in the steel industry.

They still have enough nukes to decimate the world if attacked, and without the need to disseminate an ideology, they can just focus on aquiring wealth, influence, and power. And they are doing that. Remember, if you want to go into space, a manned mission, you have to talk to the Russians, now.

 

[Mr.Nick]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

The truth is democrats are content with the program how it is presently, because those fools want to keep using the "SS account" as some sort of a slush fund.

In reality there is no SS account that has our money in it because democrats use it as petty cash to fund other pet social projects.

The government pays the entitled to SS "out of pocket" because democrats pissed the account away..

This is why republicans want a more solvent and transparent program.

 

[ShackledNation]

Which language would you like to learn? Cutting the military sounds so damned easy, until you need them.

We need a military as expensive as the rest of the world combined for what exactly? Who are we defending ourselves from in Europe, in Korea, in Japan, in the ME?

Our military is a make-work project for the defense industry.

Now we are seeing the light. Yes there are some things that can be safely trimmed from the defense budget. (If the Democrats would actually write a budget.) But cutting the manpower any further should not be one of those things.

We need 700 military bases around the world? Our military is subsidizing european defense so they can run their welfare states. Jefferson warned us against becoming an empire.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

 

[SFC Ollie]

We need a military as expensive as the rest of the world combined for what exactly? Who are we defending ourselves from in Europe, in Korea, in Japan, in the ME?

Our military is a make-work project for the defense industry.

Now we are seeing the light. Yes there are some things that can be safely trimmed from the defense budget. (If the Democrats would actually write a budget.) But cutting the manpower any further should not be one of those things.

We need 700 military bases around the world? Our military is subsidizing european defense so they can run their welfare states. Jefferson warned us against becoming an empire.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

You think there are that many? Over 50% of the bases in Germany have closed since 1990. And we are still closing more. When we get done there will be almost none left. Bamholder, Landstuhl and a few others........

 

[ShackledNation]

Now we are seeing the light. Yes there are some things that can be safely trimmed from the defense budget. (If the Democrats would actually write a budget.) But cutting the manpower any further should not be one of those things.

We need 700 military bases around the world? Our military is subsidizing european defense so they can run their welfare states. Jefferson warned us against becoming an empire.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

You think there are that many? Over 50% of the bases in Germany have closed since 1990. And we are still closing more. When we get done there will be almost none left. Bamholder, Landstuhl and a few others........

You don't realize there are that many? I don't think, I know. This is not a conspiracy, this is reality, and you need to get with it. These bases are spread all across Europe, the Americas, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. All bases in Germany and throughout Europe should be closed, not just 50% in one country. Let them provide their own defense. I don't believe in subsidizing foreign welfare states.

Only 46 countries have no US military presence.

The founders desired a Republic, not an Empire. Our presence in these countries is completely unnecessary, and even harmful to our national security. Citizens in these countries resent having US military presence in them, just as I resent having US government presence in my own economic life. Would you like Mexican military bases and troops on US sole 24/7? I know I wouldn't.

 

[SFC Ollie]

We need 700 military bases around the world? Our military is subsidizing european defense so they can run their welfare states. Jefferson warned us against becoming an empire.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

You think there are that many? Over 50% of the bases in Germany have closed since 1990. And we are still closing more. When we get done there will be almost none left. Bamholder, Landstuhl and a few others........

You don't realize there are that many? I don't think, I know. This is not a conspiracy, this is reality, and you need to get with it. These bases are spread all across Europe, the Americas, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. All bases in Germany and throughout Europe should be closed, not just 50% in one country. Let them provide their own defense. I don't believe in subsidizing foreign welfare states.

Only 46 countries have no US military presence.

The founders desired a Republic, not an Empire. Our presence in these countries is completely unnecessary, and even harmful to our national security. Citizens in these countries resent having US military presence in them, just as I resent having US government presence in my own economic life. Would you like Mexican military bases and troops on US sole 24/7? I know I wouldn't.

Excuse the fuck out of me. But you don't tell me to "get with it" I am telling you that we are indeed closing more and more bases every fucking day and you show me a 10 year old map. What do you know about the closed kasernes in Europe? I know that of the four times I was stationed in Europe all four communities are closed. And that isn't one little base Darmstadt had 4 Kasernes They are all closed There were 9 Kasernes in Ludwigsburg, all closed now. And I don't have a clue how many little compounds and Kasernes were in Frankfurt at any time, But after being the largest concentration of US troops in Europe....Yep Closed. Even Rhein-Main AFB. Closed. And as I said more closing all the time. So you get with it, The military is less than half the strength it was in 1980. How small would you like it to get? Now how do I know about all these closings? Because I am with it, I can even show pictures of some of the bases I used to be at, and what they look like today. Such as a Nike-Hercules radar site that now has wind turbines. The barracks is falling apart......The launcher area makes wood chips.........

We will continue to cut back our forces in Europe and I'm sure elsewhere in the world. However I certainly hope that our armed forces don't get any smaller. If it were up to me I would bring most of them home and place them on our borders.

But get with it, what you want is happening and has been since the 90's. And remember, we have obligations to our allies. We cannot simply pack up and go in most cases.

 

[ShackledNation]

You think there are that many? Over 50% of the bases in Germany have closed since 1990. And we are still closing more. When we get done there will be almost none left. Bamholder, Landstuhl and a few others........

You don't realize there are that many? I don't think, I know. This is not a conspiracy, this is reality, and you need to get with it. These bases are spread all across Europe, the Americas, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. All bases in Germany and throughout Europe should be closed, not just 50% in one country. Let them provide their own defense. I don't believe in subsidizing foreign welfare states.

Only 46 countries have no US military presence.

The founders desired a Republic, not an Empire. Our presence in these countries is completely unnecessary, and even harmful to our national security. Citizens in these countries resent having US military presence in them, just as I resent having US government presence in my own economic life. Would you like Mexican military bases and troops on US sole 24/7? I know I wouldn't.

Excuse the fuck out of me. But you don't tell me to "get with it" I am telling you that we are indeed closing more and more bases every fucking day and you show me a 10 year old map. What do you know about the closed kasernes in Europe? I know that of the four times I was stationed in Europe all four communities are closed. And that isn't one little base Darmstadt had 4 Kasernes They are all closed There were 9 Kasernes in Ludwigsburg, all closed now. And I don't have a clue how many little compounds and Kasernes were in Frankfurt at any time, But after being the largest concentration of US troops in Europe....Yep Closed. Even Rhein-Main AFB. Closed. And as I said more closing all the time. So you get with it, The military is less than half the strength it was in 1980. How small would you like it to get? Now how do I know about all these closings? Because I am with it, I can even show pictures of some of the bases I used to be at, and what they look like today. Such as a Nike-Hercules radar site that now has wind turbines. The barracks is falling apart......The launcher area makes wood chips.........

We will continue to cut back our forces in Europe and I'm sure elsewhere in the world. However I certainly hope that our armed forces don't get any smaller. If it were up to me I would bring most of them home and place them on our borders.

But get with it, what you want is happening and has been since the 90's. And remember, we have obligations to our allies. We cannot simply pack up and go in most cases.

We still have 700 bases around the world. Closing 9 is not even a drop in the bucket. There is no need for you to get so offended. Has that map significantly changed in 10 years? I doubt it. By military to you mean the number of personnel? Spending? Number of bases? What? What I want is not happening. We are only opening more bases in the middle east and fighting more and more wars. Jefferson said peace and friendliness with all nations and entangling alliances with none. We should not have the obligation to provide for the defense of Europe so they can put money towards their failed socialist welfare systems.

 

[SFC Ollie]

You don't realize there are that many? I don't think, I know. This is not a conspiracy, this is reality, and you need to get with it. These bases are spread all across Europe, the Americas, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. All bases in Germany and throughout Europe should be closed, not just 50% in one country. Let them provide their own defense. I don't believe in subsidizing foreign welfare states.

Only 46 countries have no US military presence.

The founders desired a Republic, not an Empire. Our presence in these countries is completely unnecessary, and even harmful to our national security. Citizens in these countries resent having US military presence in them, just as I resent having US government presence in my own economic life. Would you like Mexican military bases and troops on US sole 24/7? I know I wouldn't.

Excuse the fuck out of me. But you don't tell me to "get with it" I am telling you that we are indeed closing more and more bases every fucking day and you show me a 10 year old map. What do you know about the closed kasernes in Europe? I know that of the four times I was stationed in Europe all four communities are closed. And that isn't one little base Darmstadt had 4 Kasernes They are all closed There were 9 Kasernes in Ludwigsburg, all closed now. And I don't have a clue how many little compounds and Kasernes were in Frankfurt at any time, But after being the largest concentration of US troops in Europe....Yep Closed. Even Rhein-Main AFB. Closed. And as I said more closing all the time. So you get with it, The military is less than half the strength it was in 1980. How small would you like it to get? Now how do I know about all these closings? Because I am with it, I can even show pictures of some of the bases I used to be at, and what they look like today. Such as a Nike-Hercules radar site that now has wind turbines. The barracks is falling apart......The launcher area makes wood chips.........

We will continue to cut back our forces in Europe and I'm sure elsewhere in the world. However I certainly hope that our armed forces don't get any smaller. If it were up to me I would bring most of them home and place them on our borders.

But get with it, what you want is happening and has been since the 90's. And remember, we have obligations to our allies. We cannot simply pack up and go in most cases.

We still have 700 bases around the world. Closing 9 is not even a drop in the bucket. There is no need for you to get so offended. Has that map significantly changed in 10 years? I doubt it. By military to you mean the number of personnel? Spending? Number of bases? What? What I want is not happening. We are only opening more bases in the middle east and fighting more and more wars. Jefferson said peace and friendliness with all nations and entangling alliances with none. We should not have the obligation to provide for the defense of Europe so they can put money towards their failed socialist welfare systems.

In case you hadn't been informed Iraq is almost finished, or I should say we are almost finished in Iraq. Unless of course Obama doesn't do what Bush set up before he left Office. And troops are also being pulled from Afghanistan. We've already told the Taliban about when they can expect to win. The number of military troops is half what it was in 90. The spending is actually higher because of the wars. But again those are slowly closing. And yes your map has changed considerably in 10 years. And where do you get 9 from? I was simply using a few areas as an example, There were more than 2 dozen Kasernes in Frankfurt that have been closed. As another example. And like it or not most of Europe is still allied with us. And most of them are pretty good people. Even if their Governments suck.

 

[Chris]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

The truth is democrats are content with the program how it is presently, because those fools want to keep using the "SS account" as some sort of a slush fund.

In reality there is no SS account that has our money in it because democrats use it as petty cash to fund other pet social projects.

The government pays the entitled to SS "out of pocket" because democrats pissed the account away..

This is why republicans want a more solvent and transparent program.

The Republicans created 93% of the National Debt by lowering taxes for the rich!

Bill Clinton balanced the budget, and George Bush doubled the National Debt and destroyed the economy.

The Democrats are the responsible ones!

 

[SFC Ollie]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

The truth is democrats are content with the program how it is presently, because those fools want to keep using the "SS account" as some sort of a slush fund.

In reality there is no SS account that has our money in it because democrats use it as petty cash to fund other pet social projects.

The government pays the entitled to SS "out of pocket" because democrats pissed the account away..

This is why republicans want a more solvent and transparent program.

The Republicans created 93% of the National Debt by lowering taxes for the rich!

Bill Clinton balanced the budget, and George Bush doubled the National Debt and destroyed the economy.

The Democrats are the responsible ones!

Tell me Chris, has the last 2 years been responsible? How about the last 4 years when the Dems controlled both houses of congress? Get a clue.

 

[ShackledNation]

Excuse the fuck out of me. But you don't tell me to "get with it" I am telling you that we are indeed closing more and more bases every fucking day and you show me a 10 year old map. What do you know about the closed kasernes in Europe? I know that of the four times I was stationed in Europe all four communities are closed. And that isn't one little base Darmstadt had 4 Kasernes They are all closed There were 9 Kasernes in Ludwigsburg, all closed now. And I don't have a clue how many little compounds and Kasernes were in Frankfurt at any time, But after being the largest concentration of US troops in Europe....Yep Closed. Even Rhein-Main AFB. Closed. And as I said more closing all the time. So you get with it, The military is less than half the strength it was in 1980. How small would you like it to get? Now how do I know about all these closings? Because I am with it, I can even show pictures of some of the bases I used to be at, and what they look like today. Such as a Nike-Hercules radar site that now has wind turbines. The barracks is falling apart......The launcher area makes wood chips.........

We will continue to cut back our forces in Europe and I'm sure elsewhere in the world. However I certainly hope that our armed forces don't get any smaller. If it were up to me I would bring most of them home and place them on our borders.

But get with it, what you want is happening and has been since the 90's. And remember, we have obligations to our allies. We cannot simply pack up and go in most cases.

We still have 700 bases around the world. Closing 9 is not even a drop in the bucket. There is no need for you to get so offended. Has that map significantly changed in 10 years? I doubt it. By military to you mean the number of personnel? Spending? Number of bases? What? What I want is not happening. We are only opening more bases in the middle east and fighting more and more wars. Jefferson said peace and friendliness with all nations and entangling alliances with none. We should not have the obligation to provide for the defense of Europe so they can put money towards their failed socialist welfare systems.

In case you hadn't been informed Iraq is almost finished, or I should say we are almost finished in Iraq. Unless of course Obama doesn't do what Bush set up before he left Office. And troops are also being pulled from Afghanistan. We've already told the Taliban about when they can expect to win. The number of military troops is half what it was in 90. The spending is actually higher because of the wars. But again those are slowly closing. And yes your map has changed considerably in 10 years. And where do you get 9 from? I was simply using a few areas as an example, There were more than 2 dozen Kasernes in Frankfurt that have been closed. As another example. And like it or not most of Europe is still allied with us. And most of them are pretty good people. Even if their Governments suck.

I'm not even talking about actual conflicts like Iraq. We have troops all over the world in countries were are not fighting wars in, and bases in them as well. It is not the responsibility of the US military to have military bases, deploy troops, and provide the defense programs of every single country with friendly people in it. Period. Europe can provide its own defense, and if it absolutely needs us we can help. Having bases and active personnel there is a waste of money. I am not some military hating leftist. But if you look at actual data provided by the DoD you will see the gross creation of an unnecessary American Empire.

These following numbers come from the Department of Defense, Dec. 31 2010. They are the most recent numbers I could find.
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/MILITARY/history/hst1012.pdf

The US currently has 80,000 troops in Europe, 45,000 in East Asia, 1,700 in Africa, and nearly 2,000 in the Americas.

What about the Middle East? Not including Iraq, Afghanistan, or Kuwait, the US has nearly 6,000 troops deployed in the Middle East. In Afghanistan alone there are over 100,000 US troops. In Iraq there are more than 85,000.

Overall, the United States has nearly 300,000 troops deployed outside of American states and territories spread out across 150 foreign countries.

That is completely outrageous. It is unjustifiable, and the founding fathers are rolling over in their graves because of it. Imagine if the taxpayers had this money in their pockets instead. And these numbers were before the Libyan conflict, so the numbers are likely higher at least in the Middle Eastern Region.

Now on to military bases and other facilities.
http://www.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/2009baseline.pdf

According to the DoD report for 2009, the United States has 102, 783 military facilities around the world (these are not bases, and include docks, storehouses, etc.). The United States also has 716 military bases in 39 countries.

Empires have proven to be unsustainable. Every military empire in the history of the world has collapsed. Such empires are unnecessary and put a drain on the free market economy. With a military presence in 150 countries around the world and bases in 39 of them, calling the United States anything but an Empire (whether good or not) is simply not correct. If you think having hundreds of thousands of troops deployed in nearly every country in the world is good for the United States, please explain why. It should be clear such actions do more harm than good.

The corrupt US government is too large and has only hurt our domestic economy. There is no reason to believe the same over-sized, corrupt government will be benevolent and holy to us or anyone else abroad.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So approximately 20% of our Military forces are deployed outside of US territory.

And that number is shrinking. Another 2 Brigades will be moved out of Germany in 2012. God only knows where else we will pull troops out of.

Now look at your list closely. All those countries where there are 6 personnel... and they are probably marines... Those are embassy guards. Would you like to pull them? that would cut down on your total number of countries. Then you have numbers like 24 troops in Argentina. Any Idea why? I know, They are trainers. They are teaching courses such as anti-terrorism. I could go on and on, but you refuse to see anything but the total even though it is shrinking almost daily.

 

[Mr.Nick]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

The truth is democrats are content with the program how it is presently, because those fools want to keep using the "SS account" as some sort of a slush fund.

In reality there is no SS account that has our money in it because democrats use it as petty cash to fund other pet social projects.

The government pays the entitled to SS "out of pocket" because democrats pissed the account away..

This is why republicans want a more solvent and transparent program.

The Republicans created 93% of the National Debt by lowering taxes for the rich!

Bill Clinton balanced the budget, and George Bush doubled the National Debt and destroyed the economy.

The Democrats are the responsible ones!

You're wrong but you can believe what you like...

BTW, presidents do nothing the congress does..

Can you learn that fact???

 

[Mr.Nick]

The truth is democrats are content with the program how it is presently, because those fools want to keep using the "SS account" as some sort of a slush fund.

In reality there is no SS account that has our money in it because democrats use it as petty cash to fund other pet social projects.

The government pays the entitled to SS "out of pocket" because democrats pissed the account away..

This is why republicans want a more solvent and transparent program.

The Republicans created 93% of the National Debt by lowering taxes for the rich!

Bill Clinton balanced the budget, and George Bush doubled the National Debt and destroyed the economy.

The Democrats are the responsible ones!

You're wrong but you can believe what you like...

BTW, presidents do nothing the congress does everything. Presidents have veto power - thats it.

Can you learn that fact???

 

[rdean]

Why do the Democrats keep saying the Republicans want to end medicare or S.S.

Because Republicans said it first.

 

[ShackledNation]

So approximately 20% of our Military forces are deployed outside of US territory.


And that number is shrinking. Another 2 Brigades will be moved out of Germany in 2012. God only knows where else we will pull troops out of.

The percentage deployed outside of the US does not matter as much as the number of countries they are deployed in. We currently have a military presence in 75% of the countries in the world. There is no need for them to be spread all over the place.

Now look at your list closely. All those countries where there are 6 personnel... and they are probably marines... Those are embassy guards. Would you like to pull them? that would cut down on your total number of countries. Then you have numbers like 24 troops in Argentina. Any Idea why? I know, They are trainers. They are teaching courses such as anti-terrorism. I could go on and on, but you refuse to see anything but the total even though it is shrinking almost daily.

Ok, fair enough. I admit I did not think about embassy guards. But even factoring out all embassy guards, even saying there are an average of 10 in each country, the numbers don't change significantly at all. Plus, we still have military bases (not embassies) in 39 foreign countries. Of course there are trainers, and that is an important point to make, but you know as well as I those numbers are not all trainers. The vast majority of these personnel are not trainers, which I am sure you would concede. Second, provide evidence the total is shrinking daily by any significant amount. And I don't mean troops in Afghanistan and Iraq; I mean everywhere else.

Finally, please, tell me this:
Why do we need 1, 248 troops in Belgium?
54,431 in Germany?
9,779 in Italy?
1,345 in Spain?
1,485 in Turkey
9,318 in the UK?
1,401 in Bahrain?
1,373 in Djibouti?
35,329 in Japan? (I know the agreement, but I mean why keep it? The Japanese want to remain allies and economic partners with us, of course, but 67 percent favored a reduction in the number of U.S. military bases). Japan is the third largest economy in the world. I think they can figure out how to defend themselves.)

 

[Avatar4321]

Please. Republicans don't have the guts to end the entitlement ponzi schemes.

 

[Mr.Nick]

So approximately 20% of our Military forces are deployed outside of US territory.


And that number is shrinking. Another 2 Brigades will be moved out of Germany in 2012. God only knows where else we will pull troops out of.

The percentage deployed outside of the US does not matter as much as the number of countries they are deployed in. We currently have a military presence in 75% of the countries in the world. There is no need for them to be spread all over the place.

Now look at your list closely. All those countries where there are 6 personnel... and they are probably marines... Those are embassy guards. Would you like to pull them? that would cut down on your total number of countries. Then you have numbers like 24 troops in Argentina. Any Idea why? I know, They are trainers. They are teaching courses such as anti-terrorism. I could go on and on, but you refuse to see anything but the total even though it is shrinking almost daily.

Ok, fair enough. I admit I did not think about embassy guards. But even factoring out all embassy guards, even saying there are an average of 10 in each country, the numbers don't change significantly at all. Plus, we still have military bases (not embassies) in 39 foreign countries. Of course there are trainers, and that is an important point to make, but you know as well as I those numbers are not all trainers. The vast majority of these personnel are not trainers, which I am sure you would concede. Second, provide evidence the total is shrinking daily by any significant amount. And I don't mean troops in Afghanistan and Iraq; I mean everywhere else.

Finally, please, tell me this:
Why do we need 1, 248 troops in Belgium?
54,431 in Germany?
9,779 in Italy?
1,345 in Spain?
1,485 in Turkey
9,318 in the UK?
1,401 in Bahrain?
1,373 in Djibouti?
35,329 in Japan? (I know the agreement, but I mean why keep it? The Japanese want to remain allies and economic partners with us, of course, but 67 percent favored a reduction in the number of U.S. military bases). Japan is the third largest economy in the world. I think they can figure out how to defend themselves.)

At one point our dollar was worth something.......

I have absolutely no idea why we're in Japan - Japan cant go to war, they're on timeout until we decide to let them off it and thats probably the reason...

 

[SFC Ollie]

So approximately 20% of our Military forces are deployed outside of US territory.


And that number is shrinking. Another 2 Brigades will be moved out of Germany in 2012. God only knows where else we will pull troops out of.

The percentage deployed outside of the US does not matter as much as the number of countries they are deployed in. We currently have a military presence in 75% of the countries in the world. There is no need for them to be spread all over the place.

Now look at your list closely. All those countries where there are 6 personnel... and they are probably marines... Those are embassy guards. Would you like to pull them? that would cut down on your total number of countries. Then you have numbers like 24 troops in Argentina. Any Idea why? I know, They are trainers. They are teaching courses such as anti-terrorism. I could go on and on, but you refuse to see anything but the total even though it is shrinking almost daily.

Ok, fair enough. I admit I did not think about embassy guards. But even factoring out all embassy guards, even saying there are an average of 10 in each country, the numbers don't change significantly at all. Plus, we still have military bases (not embassies) in 39 foreign countries. Of course there are trainers, and that is an important point to make, but you know as well as I those numbers are not all trainers. The vast majority of these personnel are not trainers, which I am sure you would concede. Second, provide evidence the total is shrinking daily by any significant amount. And I don't mean troops in Afghanistan and Iraq; I mean everywhere else.

Finally, please, tell me this:
Why do we need 1, 248 troops in Belgium?
54,431 in Germany?
9,779 in Italy?
1,345 in Spain?
1,485 in Turkey
9,318 in the UK?
1,401 in Bahrain?
1,373 in Djibouti?
35,329 in Japan? (I know the agreement, but I mean why keep it? The Japanese want to remain allies and economic partners with us, of course, but 67 percent favored a reduction in the number of U.S. military bases). Japan is the third largest economy in the world. I think they can figure out how to defend themselves.)

54,431 in Germany? As I stated I know of 2 Brigades leaving Germany no later than 2012 That alone will drop the total troop strength there to under 50,000. And that is a quarter f what was there in 1980.

9,779 in Italy? We have forward operating bases for SF, AF, and Navy in Italy. Along with ab Airborne Unit. Why? I'm not certain, But again that's about half of what was there in the 80's and 90's.

1,345 in Spain? If I remember right all that's left in Spain is Terrejon AFB

1,485 in Turkey I used to know about turkey. But it's classified....

9,318 in the UK? Was forward airbases for the Cold war, but is shrinking and has shrunk by at least 60%.

1,401 in Bahrain? No Clue

1,373 in Djibouti? I don't know

35,329 in Japan? Same as Germany was, We keep forward deployed troops there in support of places in the far east. Like you do understand that we never signed a peace agreement with North Korea......

At any rate The savings that you dream of are not as great as one might think. Here's a statement from a CBO report dated back in 87, when we still had 200,000 troops in europe.

For example, if 100,000 troops
were withdrawn from Europe and the Army's strength was reduced accordingly,
recurring savings for personnel and for operation and maintenance
would equal $4.6 billion a year

And this has happened already.

And are we still withdrawing, according to your number of 54,431 and this statement from 5 years ago, There is little doubt.

"The number of US Army soldiers in in Germany has fallen from 208,000 to 48,000 by the end of 2006, while the total number of service members dropped from 248,000 to 64,000 by the end of 2006. "
Germany

 

[ShackledNation]

So approximately 20% of our Military forces are deployed outside of US territory.


And that number is shrinking. Another 2 Brigades will be moved out of Germany in 2012. God only knows where else we will pull troops out of.

The percentage deployed outside of the US does not matter as much as the number of countries they are deployed in. We currently have a military presence in 75% of the countries in the world. There is no need for them to be spread all over the place.


Ok, fair enough. I admit I did not think about embassy guards. But even factoring out all embassy guards, even saying there are an average of 10 in each country, the numbers don't change significantly at all. Plus, we still have military bases (not embassies) in 39 foreign countries. Of course there are trainers, and that is an important point to make, but you know as well as I those numbers are not all trainers. The vast majority of these personnel are not trainers, which I am sure you would concede. Second, provide evidence the total is shrinking daily by any significant amount. And I don't mean troops in Afghanistan and Iraq; I mean everywhere else.

Finally, please, tell me this:
Why do we need 1, 248 troops in Belgium?
54,431 in Germany?
9,779 in Italy?
1,345 in Spain?
1,485 in Turkey
9,318 in the UK?
1,401 in Bahrain?
1,373 in Djibouti?
35,329 in Japan? (I know the agreement, but I mean why keep it? The Japanese want to remain allies and economic partners with us, of course, but 67 percent favored a reduction in the number of U.S. military bases). Japan is the third largest economy in the world. I think they can figure out how to defend themselves.)

54,431 in Germany? As I stated I know of 2 Brigades leaving Germany no later than 2012 That alone will drop the total troop strength there to under 50,000. And that is a quarter f what was there in 1980.

Evidence please? And please answer why we need even 40,000 troops in Germany.

9,779 in Italy? We have forward operating bases for SF, AF, and Navy in Italy. Along with ab Airborne Unit. Why? I'm not certain, But again that's about half of what was there in the 80's and 90's.

I don't care what it was in the 80s and 90s. I consider current numbers to be far too high. In the past they may have been even more unacceptable. My question was not how many troops have we had in the past. My question is why do we have them there now. I still don't have an answer.

1,345 in Spain? If I remember right all that's left in Spain is Terrejon AFB

I believe that base now belongs to Spain. According to the DoD's own numbers, there are over 1,000 troops there. Why?

1,485 in Turkey I used to know about turkey. But it's classified....

...in other words, I don't know. I don't care if its classified. As far as I am concerned, Turkey has not attacked us, so we have no business occupying their country with any number of troops.

9,318 in the UK? Was forward airbases for the Cold war, but is shrinking and has shrunk by at least 60%.

Why do we have that many troops there? If airbases are being closed right now, you wouldn't need nearly 10,000 troops. You are answering why we were there in the past. I am asking why two decades later we are still there.

1,401 in Bahrain? No Clue

So you support getting out of there?

1,373 in Djibouti? I don't know

Same as above.

35,329 in Japan? Same as Germany was, We keep forward deployed troops there in support of places in the far east. Like you do understand that we never signed a peace agreement with North Korea......

Yes, I do understand. Now please explain why that means we currently should be providing for Japan's defense.

At any rate The savings that you dream of are not as great as one might think. Here's a statement from a CBO report dated back in 87, when we still had 200,000 troops in europe.

This isn't simply about monetary savings. There are other costs associated with having a military presence in so many countries around the world. Foreign citizens often do not like our presence in their countries. I don't want thousands of Mexican soldiers walking around California.

For example, if 100,000 troops
were withdrawn from Europe and the Army's strength was reduced accordingly,
recurring savings for personnel and for operation and maintenance
would equal $4.6 billion a year

You are using a study from 1987 after criticizing my data for being outdated? The devaluation of the dollar makes that number a bit inaccurate.

And this has happened already.

And are we still withdrawing, according to your number of 54,431 and this statement from 5 years ago, There is little doubt.

"The number of US Army soldiers in in Germany has fallen from 208,000 to 48,000 by the end of 2006, while the total number of service members dropped from 248,000 to 64,000 by the end of 2006. "
Germany

Yes, we have withdrawn troops from Germany. But that is one country out of over one hundred. And I do not see evidence of a plan to remove them all. Here is another source:
U.S. Military Spending Is Out Of Control: 12 Facts That Show That We Cannot Afford To Be The Police Of The World

It costs 100 billion dollars a year for the US to maintain its military bases around the world. That is huge. Even if it only cost 4 billion, I would favor ending them.

Do you think the US needs these bases around the world? You have never really argued much about why we should currently have bases around the world. You keep saying we are currently withdrawing, but not if you consider that to be good or bad and why.