Why Do/Don't We Need The Department of Education?

[The Rabbi]

Most of our educational funding is generated at the local and state level. That is where most educational decisions are made. The Dept of Education provides about ten percent of our educational funding

There is a wide disparity in funding and educational quality between states. Some states do not emphasize education and their children suffer for it. Theses states, which we like to call Red States are the ones who most want to get rid of the Dept of Education. This is primarily because the Dept of Education sets standards that they will actually have to expend money to meet.

All those Red States education systems, like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, Boston, Detroit...


I'll put a rural school up against an inner city school any day...and win.

Those cities also have some exceptional school systems. They tend to suffer because of the diverse populations they have to educate.

When you look at which states do the worst job of educating their students, it os primarily RED states. They also have the lowest per student expenditures. If it were not for the Dept of Education, these states could spend even less on their schools

Education goes by school district, not state.
But thanks for proving you're an idiot.

 

[candycorn]

The defense department budget has grown very steadily, and yet we were still attacked on 9-11.
Why are CONZ not calling for the elimination of the department of defense if it does not do the JOB it claims to do?

Hey, we didn't lose a war until Vietnam. We arguably lost Iraq. I guess that means that since we're no longer #1 after 200+ years of having a War Department, time to shutter it and let the states fund their own armies. I'll take Texas v. Louisiana and give you the points....LOL

The Texas Army vs the Lousiana Army ?
There's a win-win scenario because both Texans and Lousianians end up dead.

Only if the Bourbon street hookers slept with the Texas Army and infected them all.

 

[rightwinger]

Would you agree that when the department was formed, the world was a different place? We had less competition from foreign countries, less technical education was needed for graduates, and less funding was needed to teach the less technical skills to students?

And despite increases in all of those elements, education results across this country are poorer today than they were then. That was his point. The Dept of Ed hasn't improved anything.

When 90% of educational funding comes from the state and local level, you are pointing your finger at the wrong culprit

 

[The Rabbi]

Would you agree that when the department was formed, the world was a different place? We had less competition from foreign countries, less technical education was needed for graduates, and less funding was needed to teach the less technical skills to students?

And despite increases in all of those elements, education results across this country are poorer today than they were then. That was his point. The Dept of Ed hasn't improved anything.

When 90% of educational funding comes from the state and local level, you are pointing your finger at the wrong culprit

Except funding isn't the issue.
Remind us what the DOE has accomplished in the last 30 years.

 

[candycorn]

All those Red States education systems, like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, Boston, Detroit...


I'll put a rural school up against an inner city school any day...and win.

Those cities also have some exceptional school systems. They tend to suffer because of the diverse populations they have to educate.

When you look at which states do the worst job of educating their students, it os primarily RED states. They also have the lowest per student expenditures. If it were not for the Dept of Education, these states could spend even less on their schools

Education goes by school district, not state.
But thanks for proving you're an idiot.

So the State Board of Education should be done away with as well? Oh wait, you just said there was no SBoE...nevermind.


Perry.

 

[The Rabbi]

Those cities also have some exceptional school systems. They tend to suffer because of the diverse populations they have to educate.

When you look at which states do the worst job of educating their students, it os primarily RED states. They also have the lowest per student expenditures. If it were not for the Dept of Education, these states could spend even less on their schools

Education goes by school district, not state.
But thanks for proving you're an idiot.

So the State Board of Education should be done away with as well? Oh wait, you just said there was no SBoE...nevermind.


Perry.

I actually did not say that.
I didnt know your real name was Perry. Didn't want to know either.

 

[rightwinger]

All those Red States education systems, like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, Boston, Detroit...


I'll put a rural school up against an inner city school any day...and win.

Those cities also have some exceptional school systems. They tend to suffer because of the diverse populations they have to educate.

When you look at which states do the worst job of educating their students, it os primarily RED states. They also have the lowest per student expenditures. If it were not for the Dept of Education, these states could spend even less on their schools

Education goes by school district, not state.
But thanks for proving you're an idiot.

States set the standards for those school systems and provide more funding than the Feds do

If you want to point a finger at our failing school systems, you need to start at the local level, then the states and then the Dept of Education

A comprehensive solution is more likely to come top down than bottom up

 

[amrchaos]

Those cities also have some exceptional school systems. They tend to suffer because of the diverse populations they have to educate.

When you look at which states do the worst job of educating their students, it os primarily RED states. They also have the lowest per student expenditures. If it were not for the Dept of Education, these states could spend even less on their schools

Education goes by school district, not state.
But thanks for proving you're an idiot.

States set the standards for those school systems and provide more funding than the Feds do

If you want to point a finger at our failing school systems, you need to start at the local level, then the states and then the Dept of Education

A comprehensive solution is more likely to come top down than bottom up

Don't you mean work from the bottom up in this case?

By the way, I don't think some right-wingers want to dissolve the DOEd because it is a big hole in the federal budget.

I think it is so that we will not have a national standard for education.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Are you for higher standards or not?

I send my child to a private school, so yes.

I mean, if one district wants their kids to forego any Algebra since "we never use it", would you be okay with that?

If that's what the people voted for, then yes. If you don't like the school system, don't live there or send your kid to a private school.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It was mentioned in passing in another topic that we do not need the Department of Education.

I would like to hear detailed arguments exactly why we do or do not need it.

Convince me.

Thanks.

As it is not a function of the federal government, as per the US Constitution, how about why we have one?

Department of Education is, of course, unconstitutional. The Constitution clearly states that powers not granted to the federal government belong to the states.

So where is the impetus for its creation? Unions. The National Education Association (NEA)

“In 1972, the massive union formed a political action committee…released ‘Needed: A Cabinet Department of Education’ in 1975, but its most significant step was to endorse a presidential candidate- Jimmy Carter- for the first time in the history of the organization.” D.T. Stallngs, “A Brief History of the Department of Education: 1979-2002,” p. 3.

When formed, its budget was $13.1 billion (in 2007 dollars) and it employed 450 people. IN 2010, the estimated budget is $107 billion, and there are 4,800 employees. http://crunchycon.nationalreview.co...-department-education-not-radical/mona-charen

“In November 1995, when the federal government shut down over a budget crisis, 89.4 percent of the department’s employees were deemed ‘nonessential’ and sent home.” Beck and Balfe, “Broke,” p.304

Neither was NASA. Should we stop going into Space?
It's arguable that the Air Force wasn't in the Constitution either. Care to give it up?
No FDA...so we can go back to the medicine shows and people selling tonic water as a cure-alls. The life expectancy will go down which may solve the problem of medicare but thats
really a craven way to solve the issue.

Let not the perfect be the enemy of the good.

And I certainly don't think the DoE is an example of either the perfect nor the good.
It is simply featherbedding at the highest government levels.
Do you find your examples to be featherbedding at the highest government levels?
I thought not.

It might not be a bad idea to start a thread on the enumerated powers....

BTW...you might want to find out what 'craven' means.
It certainly doesn't apply in this context.

 

[rightwinger]

What do the countries that do a better job of educating their children have in common compared to the United States?

They ALL rely on a more centralized educational system with extensive national level involvement. It is the United States insistence on tens of thousands of independent school systems with divergent quality standards that is holding us back

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Would you agree that when the department was formed, the world was a different place? We had less competition from foreign countries, less technical education was needed for graduates, and less funding was needed to teach the less technical skills to students?

And despite increases in all of those elements, education results across this country are poorer today than they were then. That was his point. The Dept of Ed hasn't improved anything.

When 90% of educational funding comes from the state and local level, you are pointing your finger at the wrong culprit

There are a plethora of reasons why public education is this country is a joke. The federal government is but one of them.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

What do the countries that do a better job of educating their children have in common compared to the United States?

They ALL rely on a more centralized educational system with extensive national level involvement. It is the United States insistence on tens of thousands of independent school systems with divergent quality standards that is holding us back

And how many of those other countries have a heterogeneous population of 305 million people scattered over a 3,000 mile expanse plus off continent?

 

[amrchaos]

What do the countries that do a better job of educating their children have in common compared to the United States?

They ALL rely on a more centralized educational system with extensive national level involvement. It is the United States insistence on tens of thousands of independent school systems with divergent quality standards that is holding us back

I don't think having numerous school systems is a problem. In fact, it can be very useful if provided that these school systems have some autonomy in how it educates the youngsters. If the DoEd studies and advises the districts of what works and what does not, the science of education(That sound wierd, doesn't it) and its application will develop rapidly. Even so, the DoEd sounds like it should be a board made up of PTSA and doctorates of Education instead Washington Bureaucrats.

 

[Staidhup]

Simple, who is better equipped to educate your children the federal government or the community in which the child lives. Government bureaucracy serves no other purpose then that of the preservation of itself. To scale down the department of education and merge it into a statistical entity and disperse the funds to the communities to apply toward education is but one step, charter schools and school choice is another option. Compare the results, private schools, school choice, and charter schools out preform hands down. Unfortunately local and national teacher unions demand compensation for incompetence, continued mediocrity versus results. Parents are mandated to send their children to schools staffed by teachers that for the most part are incapable of preforming their job.

 

[rightwinger]

What do the countries that do a better job of educating their children have in common compared to the United States?

They ALL rely on a more centralized educational system with extensive national level involvement. It is the United States insistence on tens of thousands of independent school systems with divergent quality standards that is holding us back

I don't think having numerous school systems is a problem. In fact, it can be very useful if provided that these school systems have some autonomy in how it educates the youngsters. If the DoEd studies and advises the districts of what works and what does not, the science of education(That sound wierd, doesn't it) and its application will develop rapidly. Even so, the DoEd sounds like it should be a board made up of PTSA and doctorates of Education instead Washington Bureaucrats.

I agree and I think that is the primary purpose of the Dept of Education. With tens of thousands of independent school districts they provide a vehicle where successful education techniques can be shared, where good performance can be incentivized and where poor performing schools can go for assistance.

The Dept of Education is not intended to educate our children. That is left to the state and local level.

 

[g5000]

Are you for higher standards or not? I mean, if one district wants their kids to forego any Algebra since "we never use it", would you be okay with that?

How about this perspective:
If a few idiots capture a school district board and eliminate Algebra, the effects of their stupidity will be localized and more easily turned around.

If a few idiots capture a national agency, the effects of their stupidity will be felt nationally and be more deeply entrenched.

 

[g5000]

Local School District A:
Intelligent Design, and no classes on evolution
Robert E. Lee school holiday
Readin', Ritin', Rithmatic
Playground littered with jungle gyms, paperclip weapons, and Jarts


Local School District B:
Biology, with heavy emphasis on evolution
Racial/Sexual Diversity Sensitivy mandatory classes.
Spelling not checked in Science papers
Playground littered with glitter, free condoms, and foam play structures


Is that okay with the anti-DoEd people?

 

[trickydickyUK]

I would like to hear detailed arguments exactly why we do or do not need it.

Convince me.

Thanks.

The federal Department of Education is unconstitutional. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution does not authorize Congress to legislate education within the independent, sovereign states who are themselves a “Republican form of government.”

The states only have the power to set the curriculum of what is being taught in schools.

The US government can not have that; because it means moving towards diversity of decision making and a move away from centralisation of power. If power is centralised the curriculum can be manipulated from a single point. That is why the founding fathers of the US were very wise, they realised that diversity of decision making meant it was harder to form a dictatorship.

The federal Department of Education must be booted out of the states. Public schools must return to educating children with the basics and stop all social engineering and communitarian indoctrination. To continue down the same path of tossing trillions of dollars at the federal Department of Education is to guarantee transforming America’s precious children into the “New Communist Man.” You the people must stop this madness.

If you don't you get stuff like this happening.

Search this:

Camp FEMA -Obama youth army.

Instead of teaching the kids that they are unique individuals with their own minds; they teach them a collectivist attitude were they lose their uniqueness and take on board what ever is said with out thinking for themselves.

The USA schooling stands at 18th in the world school league table for standard of education, the UK stands at 7th: (2002)

Search this:

Britain seventh in global school table.

That's why you need to get rid of the Department of Education; particularly when the US was once top in the world.

The federal government’s involvement in education represents everything that is wrong with so many of our government agencies: they are unconstitutional, wasteful, expensive, and out of touch. It is the duty of your congress to abolish not only the Department of Education, but the entire federal involvement in education. If Congress refuses to do its duty, the bureaucracy will continue to grow, and education will continue to decline.

 

[The Rabbi]

When 90% of educational funding comes from the state and local level, you are pointing your finger at the wrong culprit

Except funding isn't the issue.
Remind us what the DOE has accomplished in the last 30 years.

emergency funding and food for schools who just dont have enough....

Thank you for playing, but once again you show how stupid you are.

Link?
The Dept of Agriculture provides food. Dipshit.