Why Do/Don't We Need The Department of Education?

[rightwinger]

Preachin' to the choir rightwinger. I went to public school in NJ and I teach here. We do a damn good job, given what we're dealt with.

There is an argument to be made that there is certain information that every American needs to know. National standards would cover that.

But there is an equally cogent argument that there is different skill set that people in CO need, that people in NYC do not.

Personally, I think the horse has already left the barn. We are part of a global network; not just a local or national one.

My issue is pragmatic. Will national standards supercede state and local ones? Will they contradict each other?

Will teachers be bogged down with so many govt. regulations, that they will have little time to teach? Will students be bogged down with so much information, their heads will explode? We're getting there.

Personally, I think NCLB is useless. All it does is turn D students into C students. Everyone else gets ignored.

To me, a teachers job is to make every student better off than they were. It means taking a kid who will likely drop out and getting him to eventually graduate and hold a job. It means taking a C student and getting him to the point he can go to a college or trade school. It means taking that A student and getting him focused to excell at high levels

Each kid has different backgrounds and different expectations. If a teacher can move a kid to the next level, he is doing his job

 

[kyzr]

"Don't hit the kids, no seriously, Kids have guns now"
http://black-frames.net/i-rcabk

 

[chanel]

One of my friends made a very profound statement the other day. She said "Teaching is a very simple concept. I know something you don't know, so I will share it" But bureaucrats and academic elitists try to make it so complicated and "scientific" that we spend more energy on content and methods than we do connecting with kids. That is a sad fact. I probably spend one hour a day direct instruction. The other six, are spent on "other stuff".

People have to justify their own importance I suppose. Unfortunately, it's at the expense of our children.

 

[Seawytch]

I think the point being made is that it doesn't appear to have added anything of value to the system, so why continue to spend millions, if not billions of dollars per year on it for at minimum, the same results we'd have without it?

Pages of discussion and no one can give a good argument why we should keep this albatross.

Someone has to enforce the GOP No Child Left Behind Act

Bingo! When the DOE was signed into law by President Carter, it was designed as a cabinet position to review data and highlight schools nationally that could serve as a model to others. In the 1980s they released A Nation at Risk...and that eventually led us to Bush's No Child Left Behind. So who, I wonder, is responsible for expanding the DOEs power? Hmmm...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Pages of discussion and no one can give a good argument why we should keep this albatross.

Someone has to enforce the GOP No Child Left Behind Act

Bingo! When the DOE was signed into law by President Carter, it was designed as a cabinet position to review data and highlight schools nationally that could serve as a model to others. In the 1980s they released A Nation at Risk...and that eventually led us to Bush's No Child Left Behind. So who, I wonder, is responsible for expanding the DOEs power? Hmmm...

"When the DOE was signed into law by President Carter, it was designed as a cabinet position..."
...in one more example of Democrats groveling at the feet of the big unions.

The National Education Association (NEA) “In 1972, the massive union formed a political action committee…released ‘Needed: A Cabinet Department of Education’ in 1975, but its most significant step was to endorse a presidential candidate- Jimmy Carter- for the first time in the history of the organization.” D.T. Stallngs, “A Brief History of the Department of Education: 1979-2002,” p. 3.


Get that Sandwich....?

" .... most significant step was to endorse a presidential candidate- Jimmy Carter- for the first time in the history of the organization.”

More damage done by "T-W-O"...."The Worthless One"

 

[Seawytch]

NCLB sucks editec. No argument there. Many states are "opting out".

But I happen to be on the fence about national standards. And we do need a federal authority if that's the way we go.

I am not one of those who believe "big government - bad; small government - good". I actually believe in good government - at all levels. They all have their place and functions.

People would probably be less emotional about this issue if they could point to SOME successes. I'm not familiar with any.

I don't think you should paint with such a broad brush. There are some exceptional schools in this country and we put out some of the finest graduates in the world

If you ask me, I think our problem is cultural and not educational. Americans have become lazy and do not want their children to be accountable. If the kid is failing, it must be the schools fault. If the kid is disruptive, it must be the schools inability to keep discipline. If the kid is punished, it is not the kids fault, it is the school singling him out.

Kids today have a very low attention span and and unwillingness to sacrifice for long term goals. Parents want instant results without the work

Now you're painting with a broad brush too. I have kids in elementary school and the people you describe are the exception to the rule as well. I see a lot of parents who both have to have jobs and can't spend the time necessary to work with their kids...this shifts even more of a burden on to the teachers...who are already incredibly overworked.

I can't imagine how teachers in large schools do it...while being paid peanuts.

 

[Annie]

Pages of discussion and no one can give a good argument why we should keep this albatross.

Someone has to enforce the GOP No Child Left Behind Act

Bingo! When the DOE was signed into law by President Carter, it was designed as a cabinet position to review data and highlight schools nationally that could serve as a model to others. In the 1980s they released A Nation at Risk...and that eventually led us to Bush's No Child Left Behind. So who, I wonder, is responsible for expanding the DOEs power? Hmmm...

Hmmm, GW certainly had a hand in the NCLB, however so did someone else, who certainly wasn't part of a GOP plan. Oh yeah, Teddy Kennedy who was behind NCLB long before GW came to town. One of those 'bi-partisan' boondoggles.

 

[Seawytch]

Someone has to enforce the GOP No Child Left Behind Act

Bingo! When the DOE was signed into law by President Carter, it was designed as a cabinet position to review data and highlight schools nationally that could serve as a model to others. In the 1980s they released A Nation at Risk...and that eventually led us to Bush's No Child Left Behind. So who, I wonder, is responsible for expanding the DOEs power? Hmmm...

"When the DOE was signed into law by President Carter, it was designed as a cabinet position..."
...in one more example of Democrats groveling at the feet of the big unions.

The National Education Association (NEA) “In 1972, the massive union formed a political action committee…released ‘Needed: A Cabinet Department of Education’ in 1975, but its most significant step was to endorse a presidential candidate- Jimmy Carter- for the first time in the history of the organization.” D.T. Stallngs, “A Brief History of the Department of Education: 1979-2002,” p. 3.


Get that Sandwich....?

" .... most significant step was to endorse a presidential candidate- Jimmy Carter- for the first time in the history of the organization.”

More damage done by "T-W-O"...."The Worthless One"

How does that change what I said about the expanded powers of the DOE?

 

[Oldstyle]

The defense department budget has grown very steadily, and yet we were still attacked on 9-11.
Why are CONZ not calling for the elimination of the department of defense if it does not do the JOB it claims to do?

Because, unlike schools, you can't maintain a national army, airforce and navy locally? Not the brightest post, Decepticon...

 

[The T]

The defense department budget has grown very steadily, and yet we were still attacked on 9-11.
Why are CONZ not calling for the elimination of the department of defense if it does not do the JOB it claims to do?

It's a little nuscience called the Constitution of The United States, specifically Article 1, Section 8. Perhaps you have heard of it?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Bingo! When the DOE was signed into law by President Carter, it was designed as a cabinet position to review data and highlight schools nationally that could serve as a model to others. In the 1980s they released A Nation at Risk...and that eventually led us to Bush's No Child Left Behind. So who, I wonder, is responsible for expanding the DOEs power? Hmmm...

"When the DOE was signed into law by President Carter, it was designed as a cabinet position..."
...in one more example of Democrats groveling at the feet of the big unions.

The National Education Association (NEA) “In 1972, the massive union formed a political action committee…released ‘Needed: A Cabinet Department of Education’ in 1975, but its most significant step was to endorse a presidential candidate- Jimmy Carter- for the first time in the history of the organization.” D.T. Stallngs, “A Brief History of the Department of Education: 1979-2002,” p. 3.


Get that Sandwich....?

" .... most significant step was to endorse a presidential candidate- Jimmy Carter- for the first time in the history of the organization.”

More damage done by "T-W-O"...."The Worthless One"

How does that change what I said about the expanded powers of the DOE?

My argument with your post is the emphasis: "to review data and highlight schools nationally that could serve as a model to others."

Surely you're smart enough to realize that it is merely a featherbedding operation, more jobs for union-liberal folks (union-liberal...was that redundant?)


If you're not convinced, let me prove it:
“In November 1995, when the federal government shut down over a budget crisis, 89.4 percent of the department’s employees were deemed ‘nonessential’ and sent home.” Beck and Balfe, “Broke,” p.304


"...deemed ‘nonessential’ ..."


In perspective?
When formed, its budget was $13.1 billion (in 2007 dollars) and it employed 450 people. IN 2010, the estimated budget is $107 billion, and there are 4,800 employees. http://crunchycon.nationalreview.co...-department-education-not-radical/mona-charen


That's why these folks are not educators....they are educrats.

 

[Full-Auto]

Preachin' to the choir rightwinger. I went to public school in NJ and I teach here. We do a damn good job, given what we're dealt with.

There is an argument to be made that there is certain information that every American needs to know. National standards would cover that.

But there is an equally cogent argument that there is different skill set that people in CO need, that people in NYC do not.

Personally, I think the horse has already left the barn. We are part of a global network; not just a local or national one.

My issue is pragmatic. Will national standards supercede state and local ones? Will they contradict each other?

Will teachers be bogged down with so many govt. regulations, that they will have little time to teach? Will students be bogged down with so much information, their heads will explode? We're getting there.

Personally, I think NCLB is useless. All it does is turn D students into C students. Everyone else gets ignored.

To me, a teachers job is to make every student better off than they were. It means taking a kid who will likely drop out and getting him to eventually graduate and hold a job. It means taking a C student and getting him to the point he can go to a college or trade school. It means taking that A student and getting him focused to excell at high levels

Each kid has different backgrounds and different expectations. If a teacher can move a kid to the next level, he is doing his job

BS But it does hold teachers accountable for each students success. No more moving them up without those skills. Those struggling get IEP's and the additional help. Democrats give there students help with pencil erasures. See Atlanta for further details.

 

[Seawytch]

Someone has to enforce the GOP No Child Left Behind Act

Bingo! When the DOE was signed into law by President Carter, it was designed as a cabinet position to review data and highlight schools nationally that could serve as a model to others. In the 1980s they released A Nation at Risk...and that eventually led us to Bush's No Child Left Behind. So who, I wonder, is responsible for expanding the DOEs power? Hmmm...

Hmmm, GW certainly had a hand in the NCLB, however so did someone else, who certainly wasn't part of a GOP plan. Oh yeah, Teddy Kennedy who was behind NCLB long before GW came to town. One of those 'bi-partisan' boondoggles.

Had a hand in? Seriously?

President Bush has made education his number one domestic priority. On January 23, 2001, he sent his No Child Left Behind plan for comprehensive education reform to Congress.​

Fact Sheet on the Major Provisions of the Conference Report to H.R. 1, the No Child Left Behind Act


I agree though...the Democrats should have been as obstructionist back then as the GnOP is now. Maybe we wouldn't have unfunded tax cuts, unpaid for, unnecessary wars and an unfunded Medicare Part D.

 

[rightwinger]

Preachin' to the choir rightwinger. I went to public school in NJ and I teach here. We do a damn good job, given what we're dealt with.

There is an argument to be made that there is certain information that every American needs to know. National standards would cover that.

But there is an equally cogent argument that there is different skill set that people in CO need, that people in NYC do not.

Personally, I think the horse has already left the barn. We are part of a global network; not just a local or national one.

My issue is pragmatic. Will national standards supercede state and local ones? Will they contradict each other?

Will teachers be bogged down with so many govt. regulations, that they will have little time to teach? Will students be bogged down with so much information, their heads will explode? We're getting there.

Personally, I think NCLB is useless. All it does is turn D students into C students. Everyone else gets ignored.

To me, a teachers job is to make every student better off than they were. It means taking a kid who will likely drop out and getting him to eventually graduate and hold a job. It means taking a C student and getting him to the point he can go to a college or trade school. It means taking that A student and getting him focused to excell at high levels

Each kid has different backgrounds and different expectations. If a teacher can move a kid to the next level, he is doing his job

BS But it does hold teachers accountable for each students success. No more moving them up without those skills. Those struggling get IEP's and the additional help. Democrats give there students help with pencil erasures. See Atlanta for further details.

In schools that have an ever decreasing budget the threat of not meeting NCLB standards is a driving force.

Spending money on increasing the skills of A and B students does nothing to help your NCLB scores...they will pass anyway

So you spend your time and money on D and C students who are at risk of not passing the exam

 

[chanel]

That philosophy started long before NCLB. We've neglected the best and brightest for decades.

See I.D.E.A.