Why Do Christians Grieve?

[Againsheila]

That seems like a rationalization to me; as though you are reaching for an apt explanation to dismiss any threats to your religious beliefs (or should I say reinforcements to any doubt your my feel the need to suppress).

You asked a question, I answered it. You believe as you wish, and I'll believe as I wish.

I think you only asked the question because you wanted to attack religion, you really didn't want an answer, did you?

Do you think its an attack? Or a reaffirmation?

I think it's clear, YOU are attacking people for their religious beliefs...you weren't interested in getting an answer, you only wanted to find a chink in someone's belief so you could attack it. You have as much as admitted that.

I think CMM asked a good question and as a Christian myself, I didn't take it as an attack although I must admit to not having been around much and not knowing his style at all.

I've asked the question before myself. If we truly believe the scriptures then why do we grieve at the loss of a loved one. We should be celebrating their entrance into the Kingdom of God rather than mourning our loss. But that is hard, and I have to admit part of me wonders if it is not in fact some form of doubt.

I can only pray that all doubts will be relieved when the time come, but for any Christian to claim they have absolutely no doubts whatsoever seems to me to be almost sacreligous (okay, I know that is not spelled right but screw it, I'm not going to dictionary.com!) Doubt is just one form of temptation that we need to overcome in the trials of life and if you do believe, you will believe that God will provide a way through it, see 1 Cor 10:13.

Immie

No, it was later it became an attack, when he attacked my answer and then started looking for people who doubt their faith. I didn't take it as an attack with the op either, it's only later, when his motives became clear.

Personally, I'm sick of the attack on Christian's faith and Christians. That's why so few even answer any questions like this or admit they are Christians in public anymore. It's almost like we have lost so much ground we are back to hiding our faith and looking for a new frontier where we can express our faith openly. Our children are attacked in public schools for simply reading the Bible on their own time, or praying aloud with their friends. That's why so many Christian's now homeschool.

 

[Care4all]

i was in my twenties, not married to matt yet, and his father passed on from cancer, he was 6'4'', weighing 87 lbs when he died...

i was cyring my eyes out...during the funeral and then again back at matt's family's house, that was filled with his brother and sister and mom and brother's family and with his dad's grandkids etc...

and no one seemed to be grieving who was related to him...but me...( I had walked away from the Church or Religion for about 8 years at this point.) I knew how much Matt was going to miss his dad, and how sad it was that matt lost his dad while he was still so young and that my nephew who was only 13 at the time and was being reared by matthew's parents was going to miss him as well, it just overwhelmed me...the sadness, I felt, for everyone involved.)

But no one, no one in his family was crying, but me....????

Eventually it became late and Matthew was going to drive me home to my place...and as we were leaving, i mustered up enough courage to ask his mom and brother and sister all sitting on the couch...

Why aren't any of you crying....?

And they all answered, because they knew he was "saved" and that he was moving on to a better place, without pain...they said, they knew he would be seeing God.

Now coming from a Catholic background, at least on my mother's part....i didn't even know what the term "saved" meant....but i kinda figured it out...

Anyway....when i went home that night and after matt had left, I layed there and wondered about what his family had said that evening...i so wished I understood the peace and comfort they felt in their mourning instead of the heavy, sad feelings i felt....which could be described as nothing less than complete doubt of an ever after....even if on the surface this may not have shown its face...it is what i was feeling inside and it is what made me so sad with Matt's dad's death.

If someone were to ask me, what made me change and search for the self within my self...or what drew me back to God and all the questions I had regarding him and religion, it was this one incident...with a long and winding, 10 year road afterwards in my search.

"Blessed are those that mourn, for they shall be comforted."

I wanted to find that comfort that they all had.....

Care

People with faith still will grieve, although it may not seem so at times. I only cried once after my wife passed, but I was miserable for a long time after. It really got bad after six months when I finally realized I would never see her again on this Earth.

At the same time, I was thankful that she was able to die, because she was in so much pain. I think when we see someone we love in that much pain, we get to the point where we realize it is better for them to go. Losing someone in an accident who is completely healthy, I believe, presents a greater challenge. We are more likely to question why someone so full of life would be taken away for no apparent reason.

They mourned as well i know now, but they were comforted...

My husband still grieves and it has been almost 20 years....he almost misses his father more now then he did in the beginning...wishing he could see where we live now and all the animals around us, that he knows his father would have loved...but there is no doubt, where he believes his father is....

Care

 

[AllieBaba]

When I grieve for people it generally has to do with two things...

#1, were they saved, and if not, that is devastating to me.

#2, were they in pain or afraid when they died?

#3, do they leave children or loved ones (besides myself) behind who will have a terrible time without them?

Those are the things that cause me to grieve. I had a friend who died young, leaving behind a teenaged daughter, a 13 year old son (both who idolized him, and the son was with him when he was killed, and sat with his body all night until the rescue crews could get to him) and an ex-wife who had recently remarried. It was so, so sad.

My father died, a Mormon, and I will never know if he was truly saved before he died (his cousin, a bishop, said he was...but then, his cousin didn't even know my dad had children, so who knows?).

My mother is not saved and at 74 time is running out. Neither of my brothers is saved. None of my uncles or aunts, all of whom I love(d) so much.

The thought of our loved ones in hell is an overwhelming and terrible sorrow to bear, and it leads to doubt and fear about dying ourselves. I have two grown sons, and I'm uncertain of their salvation, though I THINK they both believe. Still, Satan believes as well, and he won't be in heaven. To believe and reject is even worse than never believing at all, I think. So I spend many sleepless nights praying for my boys and hoping they are saved or will accept salvation. And if one were to die, I would have a very, very hard time wanting to commit myself to eternity without them.

Heaven for me will be lonely, unless a lot of people I know and love suddenly convert, and I just don't see that happening.

I do know my beloved sister and brother in law will be there, and that's a comfort. But I'd rather the whole family was.

 

[AllieBaba]

Good grief, that was 3 things.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I think its awful that Christians believe those who don't accept Jesus as their personal savior burn for all eternity in Hell. That just seems like the worst thing to believe.

What about people of other faiths? What about those who have never been exposed to the teachings of the Bible? What about those who are utterly incapable of believing in the Bible and its seemingly unrealistic stories? Do all of them burn for all of eternity through no fault of their own?

It seems impossible that a God that is supposed to be the embodiment of unconditional love and mercy would send anyone to a place as terrible as Hell.

That's one of the hypocrisies of Christianity which turns me off to the faith and the further ramifications of which that makes me regard its adherents with suspicion and fear.

 

[Care4all]

I think its awful that Christians believe those who don't accept Jesus as their personal savior burn for all eternity in Hell. That just seems like the worst thing to believe.

What about people of other faiths? What about those who have never been exposed to the teachings of the Bible? What about those who are utterly incapable of believing in the Bible and its seemingly unrealistic stories? Do all of them burn for all of eternity through no fault of their own?

It seems impossible that a God that is supposed to be the embodiment of unconditional love and mercy would send anyone to a place as terrible as Hell.

That's one of the hypocrisies of Christianity which turns me off to the faith and the further ramifications of which that makes me regard its adherents with suspicion and fear.

not all christian churches preach such....the largest, the Catholic church, does not.

they preach that it is up to the judge on judgement day, Christ....thru Him those may be forgiven...even people who proclaimed to be believers, were punished on judgement day, in the parable of the sheep and the goats...so, the catholic church has just backed off and believe it will be up to God, when the Day comes, not for us to judge the outcome of the souls of others...speak against the sin, judge the sin, but not the sinner....type thing...

 

[Coloradomtnman]

not all christian churches preach such....the largest, the Catholic church, does not.

they preach that it is up to the judge on judgement day, Christ....thru Him those may be forgiven...even people who proclaimed to be believers, were punished on judgement day, in the parable of the sheep and the goats...so, the catholic church has just backed off and believe it will be up to God, when the Day comes, not for us to judge the outcome of the souls of others...speak against the sin, judge the sin, but not the sinner....type thing...

How is that reconciled with the teachings of the Bible?

Well, that's nice to know that not all Christians believe that. So, do just Protestants, or some Protestants believe that? The Nondenominationals and Unitarians I know seem to be pretty nice in the ways of their beliefs, and the same for the Episcopalians as well. It seems like the Baptists and Mormon are very strict. Same for the Methodists and Pentecostals.

And I can't stand Christian Scientists, not only for the oxymoronical name, but for the ridiculous belief that praying can save the sick and medicine and medical practices are against God. There are Christian Scientists in Colorado going to jail because they didn't take their 3 year old to the hospital when she or he (can't quite recall) had pneumonia and died. They were charged with manslaughter or negligence or some sort of combination of the two...here let me just look it up:

Faith Healers allow 13 yr old girl to die - this wasn't exactly what I was looking for but gives a great example.

What's the harm in religious fundamentalism? - here's some stuff on faith healing and snake handling.

I can't find it, oh, well. You get the point.

 

[AllieBaba]

I think its awful that Christians believe those who don't accept Jesus as their personal savior burn for all eternity in Hell. That just seems like the worst thing to believe.

What about people of other faiths? What about those who have never been exposed to the teachings of the Bible? What about those who are utterly incapable of believing in the Bible and its seemingly unrealistic stories? Do all of them burn for all of eternity through no fault of their own?

It seems impossible that a God that is supposed to be the embodiment of unconditional love and mercy would send anyone to a place as terrible as Hell.

That's one of the hypocrisies of Christianity which turns me off to the faith and the further ramifications of which that makes me regard its adherents with suspicion and fear.

How is it a hypocrisy?

God is rejected continually by humans the world over. They ridicule him, they jeer at those who believe in him. Yet he continues to love us. We hated him and he sent his son to earth to die a hideous death in our place.

Because although he's a God of love, he is also righteous, and the ultimate judge. You can't be a judge, though you may love all man, and not punish. Every person who has been offered salvation and rejects it is as guilty of Jesus' murder as those who committed it. Yet they would be accepted if they would only accept Jesus.

The bible is the key to understanding. Man thinks he has the capacity to understand on his own, and thinks in his arrogance that he doesn't need God. But the truth is, God is and ultimately, those who reject him will not attain heaven. That isn't a choice I made, it's just the way it is.

You may find it repugnant, that's because you have a skeptic's heart and have hardened your heart, and insist on attributing human characteristics to God. While we share some of God's characteristics, in the end, he's god, and he uses a different measuring stick. Heaven has to be perfection, and perfection cannot exist if you allow the damned to co-exist with those who are saved. That's the problem with earth now. It won't be like that in heaven.

 

[auditor0007]

I think its awful that Christians believe those who don't accept Jesus as their personal savior burn for all eternity in Hell. That just seems like the worst thing to believe.

What about people of other faiths? What about those who have never been exposed to the teachings of the Bible? What about those who are utterly incapable of believing in the Bible and its seemingly unrealistic stories? Do all of them burn for all of eternity through no fault of their own?

It seems impossible that a God that is supposed to be the embodiment of unconditional love and mercy would send anyone to a place as terrible as Hell.

That's one of the hypocrisies of Christianity which turns me off to the faith and the further ramifications of which that makes me regard its adherents with suspicion and fear.

Some people take the Bible or the scripture of their particular religion word for word. Others are open to the idea that it can and has been interpreted over time, and that we may not fully understand everything it is tying to tell us. I personally don't believe God will punish people to extreme measures for not believing the exact way he wanted them to believe or worship. I'm not even sure those who deny Him would be punished. However, they may be kept from the greater rewards that whatever follows has to offer. Or maybe this is all part of a learning process for us. I don't pretend to have the answers. I just believe that the most important lesson from Christianity is to love thy neighbor. It's a pretty simple concept; don't hate for the sake of being hateful. Try to help those in need when you can; it isn't always possible, but some people go out of their way to be mean to others. That is not what any good moral person would do, regardless of religious belief.

 

[auditor0007]

I sometimes wonder whether the battle between good and evil, right and wrong, continues in the afterlife. Heaven is supposed to be perfection, but could it be that heaven is the end goal on a long journey with this life only being one of the stepping stones?

 

[AllieBaba]

Yes. There are a few more stepping stones we have to climb. The war between heaven and hell, the tribulation, the rapture, death itself for most of us. And we will all be judged, saved and unsaved. Being saved doesn't mean you won't answer for your life. It just means your destination is heaven. There will still be consequences and crowns being handed out.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

How is it a hypocrisy?

God is rejected continually by humans the world over. They ridicule him, they jeer at those who believe in him. Yet he continues to love us. We hated him and he sent his son to earth to die a hideous death in our place.

Because although he's a God of love, he is also righteous, and the ultimate judge. You can't be a judge, though you may love all man, and not punish. Every person who has been offered salvation and rejects it is as guilty of Jesus' murder as those who committed it. Yet they would be accepted if they would only accept Jesus.

The bible is the key to understanding. Man thinks he has the capacity to understand on his own, and thinks in his arrogance that he doesn't need God. But the truth is, God is and ultimately, those who reject him will not attain heaven. That isn't a choice I made, it's just the way it is.

You may find it repugnant, that's because you have a skeptic's heart and have hardened your heart, and insist on attributing human characteristics to God. While we share some of God's characteristics, in the end, he's god, and he uses a different measuring stick. Heaven has to be perfection, and perfection cannot exist if you allow the damned to co-exist with those who are saved. That's the problem with earth now. It won't be like that in heaven.

This is what I'm talking about. This kind of self-righteous, fanatical, fundamentalism that causes wars and rife and hatred between human beings; that causes further disconnection from reality and forcefully imposes itself on others.

The above beliefs aren't rational and since I can't believe in something that isn't rational or reasonable (not that I won't its that I CAN'T) I won't believe. If someone as literally minded as AllieBaba obviously is can even understand the word play I just used. But, even beyond that, I wouldn't believe. To me its just awful that someone can perceive the world that way. Its inhumane.

 

[Againsheila]

I think its awful that Christians believe those who don't accept Jesus as their personal savior burn for all eternity in Hell. That just seems like the worst thing to believe.

What about people of other faiths? What about those who have never been exposed to the teachings of the Bible? What about those who are utterly incapable of believing in the Bible and its seemingly unrealistic stories? Do all of them burn for all of eternity through no fault of their own?

It seems impossible that a God that is supposed to be the embodiment of unconditional love and mercy would send anyone to a place as terrible as Hell.

That's one of the hypocrisies of Christianity which turns me off to the faith and the further ramifications of which that makes me regard its adherents with suspicion and fear.

And again, you've made it clear, you didn't want an answer to the question...you wanted to attack people of faith.

FYI, I don't believe those that haven't been "born again" are going to hell. Christ taught us that God is a loving God. I sincerely doubt if you are a good person that you will end up in hell.

You seem to hate "all" Christians and claim they are "all" hypocrites when it's clear you don't really know any "real" Christians. You are spouting the hatred that's been taught in the media and the public schools for quite some time. Try thinking for yourself. Get out and meet people. Go to several churches before you make up your mind about all Christians.

How about that, I scare you because of my faith? That's a pretty powerful faith.... and the reason why the Nazi's tried to exterminate Jews. Congrats on your hate, now you just need to spread it around a little more until everyone hates and fears Christians as you do and we'll have our own holocaust.

 

[Againsheila]

I sometimes wonder whether the battle between good and evil, right and wrong, continues in the afterlife. Heaven is supposed to be perfection, but could it be that heaven is the end goal on a long journey with this life only being one of the stepping stones?

Christianity used to teach reincarnation...they stopped that when people started thinking "well, I just be good in my next life".

There is a lot more to faith than what's in the Bible. The Bible is merely an outline, a story, and the oldest history book we have. I've no doubt that the fight between good and evil exists outside our mortal lives.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

And again, you've made it clear, you didn't want an answer to the question...you wanted to attack people of faith.

FYI, I don't believe those that haven't been "born again" are going to hell. Christ taught us that God is a loving God. I sincerely doubt if you are a good person that you will end up in hell.

You seem to hate "all" Christians and claim they are "all" hypocrites when it's clear you don't really know any "real" Christians. You are spouting the hatred that's been taught in the media and the public schools for quite some time. Try thinking for yourself. Get out and meet people. Go to several churches before you make up your mind about all Christians.

How about that, I scare you because of my faith? That's a pretty powerful faith.... and the reason why the Nazi's tried to exterminate Jews. Congrats on your hate, now you just need to spread it around a little more until everyone hates and fears Christians as you do and we'll have our own holocaust.

Whoa there, lady.

I didn't say I hated anyone. I didn't say we should exterminate anyone. I just said that I fear Christians, (though you're right, I should've specified: most Christians that I've met), and feel outraged and angry at their self-righteous behavior.

For example. My grandmother just died about a month ago. She was an agnostic. All four of her sons are agnostics. All of her sons wives, except one, are agnostics. During the wake we all said something about my grandmother. And then Pat, the Christian daughter-in-law, who knows that Christianity was disapproved of by my grandmother and that it would be disrespectful to preach at her wake, gets up and reads from her prayer book and tells us that my grandmother is in Heaven. Who does she think she is?!

I grew up an agnostic in Southwestern Idaho, a Mormon/Protestant stronghold. The shit I went through because my beliefs were so unfathomable to these people! The personal attacks that I had to defend myself against!

The fact that my uncle can't marry his life partner of 15 years! The fact that my grandmother was reduced to a poor quality of life because physician assisted suicide is illegal, although she never wanted to live that way and preferred death over what her last years were. The fact that my high school peers viewed me with suspicion because I didn't have any morals. From an agnostic point of view, we live in a theocracy. It might not seem that way to you, but your a believer who is probably surrounded by believers. You might think I'm just being dramatic, but look at all the attacks we non-believers make against your religion...its because we're angry for what your religion has done to us, that's why. And because its ridiculous! It might not be the best reaction, but people are people.

Because Christians think they're religion is the only right one, they behave self-righteously. And that's not very nice. You even label eachother "real" or not "real" Christians.

And the media and public schools didn't teach me to dislike religion, Christians did. I've been to your churches. I was kicked out when I got angry at a bible school teacher for teaching that homosexuals were going to go to Hell. I was weirded out when a forty-something year old man put his hand on my head and prayed for my soul. I felt victimized when my sophomore year girlfriend's parents moved her to her grandparents' hundreds of miles away because I wasn't Christian.

Yes, you're faith is scary. That you would believe an ancient book of Jewish myths despite all the evidence contrary to it being true. Why do you believe what the Bible says...cause its says its true?

 

[Againsheila]

Coloradomtnman: For example. My grandmother just died about a month ago. She was an agnostic. All four of her sons are agnostics. All of her sons wives, except one, are agnostics. During the wake we all said something about my grandmother. And then Pat, the Christian daughter-in-law, who knows that Christianity was disapproved of by my grandmother and that it would be disrespectful to preach at her wake, gets up and reads from her prayer book and tells us that my grandmother is in Heaven. Who does she think she is?!

I can't take all your points in one post...it's just too much. She thinks she is someone mourning the loss of a loved one and expressing it in the way that makes her feel best.

When my little brother died, I cried, and cried and cried...I couldn't stop crying at his funeral, but when they asked us to come up and talk about him, I stepped up and I don't remember everything, but I stopped crying while up there and my sharing about my brother had everyone laughing. I then sat down and started crying again. Everyone grieves in their own way.

The fact that you condemn her for that says a lot more about you than it does about her.

Fear causes hate... the Nazi's feared the Jews and that turned into hate and that turned into the holocaust. Congrats, you're a short step away from starting your own.

I feel for your sister in law, being related to someone that fears and hates her the way you do.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I can't take all your points in one post...it's just too much. She thinks she is someone mourning the loss of a loved one and expressing it in the way that makes her feel best.

When my little brother died, I cried, and cried and cried...I couldn't stop crying at his funeral, but when they asked us to come up and talk. about him, I stepped up and I don't remember everything, but I stopped crying while up there and my sharing about my brother had everyone laughing. I then sat down and started crying again. Everyone grieves in their own way.

The fact that you condemn her for that says a lot more about you than it does about her.

Fear causes hate... the Nazi's feared the Jews and that turned into hate and that turned into the holocaust. Congrats, you're a short step away from starting your own.

I feel for your sister in law, being related to someone that fears and hates her the way you do.

Alright. Talking to you is pointless. I fear, therefore I hate, and I'm pretty much a Nazi? Ok, whatever. Believe what you want to, as I'm sure there's nothing I can say that would ever widen your perspective.

 

[Againsheila]

I can't take all your points in one post...it's just too much. She thinks she is someone mourning the loss of a loved one and expressing it in the way that makes her feel best.

When my little brother died, I cried, and cried and cried...I couldn't stop crying at his funeral, but when they asked us to come up and talk. about him, I stepped up and I don't remember everything, but I stopped crying while up there and my sharing about my brother had everyone laughing. I then sat down and started crying again. Everyone grieves in their own way.

The fact that you condemn her for that says a lot more about you than it does about her.

Fear causes hate... the Nazi's feared the Jews and that turned into hate and that turned into the holocaust. Congrats, you're a short step away from starting your own.

I feel for your sister in law, being related to someone that fears and hates her the way you do.

Alright. Talking to you is pointless. I fear, therefore I hate, and I'm pretty much a Nazi? Ok, whatever. Believe what you want to, as I'm sure there's nothing I can say that would ever widen your perspective.

Hey, you're the one attacking my beliefs, not the other way around. You're the one who claims to fear Christians...I sure as heck don't fear agnostics. Anyone that's taken any psych course knows that fear leads to hatred... you don't remember the witch trials? The holocaust? Maybe you're just bad at history...

From where I sit, you're the one that needs his perspective widened.

 

[elvis]

If Christians (or any adherent of a monotheistic religion besides Judaism) go to Heaven, or Paradise, and live forever in complete bliss, then why do they fear death, grieve the loss of loved ones (even the ones who also believe), and react with such outrage when people are killed. Shouldn't they be happy for the dearly departed? Shouldn't they be rejoicing? Shouldn't they welcome death?

"Hey, the terrorists just bombed us! Yay!"
********************************

"Hey, Christy!"

"Hi!"

"Guess what?"

"What?"

"My kid just choked on a lincoln log and died!"

"Oh, you must be so proud!"

"Yeah, isn't it great?"
**********************************

they rejoice but they miss having the loved one around.

 

[KittenKoder]

And again, you've made it clear, you didn't want an answer to the question...you wanted to attack people of faith.

Of which faith?