Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
Because your friend in Botswana is still alive and even though you suspect you will never see him/her again, you don't know that and you do know that you can contact him/her anytime you really want to. That isn't available if your friend is dead.
You grieve because your loved one is no longer with you, you don't grieve for the departed, they are already gone nothing you can do will affect them. It doesn't matter if you believe in an afterlife or not.
My Aunt knew she was dying and held a "celebration" of her life. We all went to see her one last time. She was happy to see us all and we were happy to see her. When she died, there was no funeral, she didn't want one, she felt she'd already had it. She wanted a wake, and she wanted to be there. It's wonderful that she was able to have her wishes fulfilled. I hope I can do the same when my time comes. I don't want a funeral, I want a party.
Now we are back to the fact that you don't really want an answer to your question, you just wanted to find another way to attack religion.
That seems like a rationalization to me; as though you are reaching for an apt explanation to dismiss any threats to your religious beliefs (or should I say reinforcements to any doubt your my feel the need to suppress).
when you lose someone you love, like a parent or spouse, you'll realize how wrong you are. i'm not criticizing you, BTW, you just haven't had that experience yet. you'll grieve because that person is no longer in your life.
religion, or lack of it, really has almost nothing to do with it, being human does.
Which brings us back to the point that he only asked the question so he could find a way to attack religion.
Because your friend in Botswana is still alive and even though you suspect you will never see him/her again, you don't know that and you do know that you can contact him/her anytime you really want to. That isn't available if your friend is dead.
You grieve because your loved one is no longer with you, you don't grieve for the departed, they are already gone nothing you can do will affect them. It doesn't matter if you believe in an afterlife or not.
My Aunt knew she was dying and held a "celebration" of her life. We all went to see her one last time. She was happy to see us all and we were happy to see her. When she died, there was no funeral, she didn't want one, she felt she'd already had it. She wanted a wake, and she wanted to be there. It's wonderful that she was able to have her wishes fulfilled. I hope I can do the same when my time comes. I don't want a funeral, I want a party.
Now we are back to the fact that you don't really want an answer to your question, you just wanted to find another way to attack religion.
No, I really did want an answer. And I think that from the last few posts that I got one. Del put it to me very well.
I also thought that maybe a religious person out there would go so far as to admit to doubt about their beliefs. I guess that was too much to hope for. Strangely, only one person has gone so far as to reiterate their religious beliefs on this thread. Where are all the others...?
...
No, I really did want an answer. And I think that from the last few posts that I got one. Del put it to me very well.
I also thought that maybe a religious person out there would go so far as to admit to doubt about their beliefs. I guess that was too much to hope for. Strangely, only one person has gone so far as to reiterate their religious beliefs on this thread. Where are all the others...?
See, you are looking for people to doubt their religion, and you don't think that's an attack?
Why do you want a religious person to admit that they doubt their beliefs? Is that the purpose of this thread? My answer was simple and to the point. That's the answer.
i don't know that, but i think it's odd that he thinks only religious people grieve.
i don't know that, but i think it's odd that he thinks only religious people grieve.
What?! You mean agnostics and atheists grieve!
strange but true. if i misinterpreted your OP, my apologies.
If Christians (or any adherent of a monotheistic religion besides Judaism) go to Heaven, or Paradise, and live forever in complete bliss, then why do they fear death, grieve the loss of loved ones (even the ones who also believe), and react with such outrage when people are killed. Shouldn't they be happy for the dearly departed? Shouldn't they be rejoicing? Shouldn't they welcome death?
If Christians (or any adherent of a monotheistic religion besides Judaism) go to Heaven, or Paradise, and live forever in complete bliss, then why do they fear death, grieve the loss of loved ones (even the ones who also believe), and react with such outrage when people are killed. Shouldn't they be happy for the dearly departed? Shouldn't they be rejoicing? Shouldn't they welcome death?
Because Christians are "God-fearing" individuals.
They fear God.
Why do you want a religious person to admit that they doubt their beliefs? Is that the purpose of this thread? My answer was simple and to the point. That's the answer.
The purpose for this thread was manifold: to hear others perspectives, to encourage others to question their beliefs, and to come to a better understanding for myself.
2 outta 3, and that ain't bad.
Religion & spirituality is an interesting thing. I don't think most people cling dogmatically to 1 set of beliefs for their entire life. I'm young, a kid by some people's standards, and I'm on my 3rd set of beliefs, though I didn't make the shifts instantly they were all transitions that took place over time. I feel that I have found what makes sense to me now, but who knows? I could change again and again.I also thought that maybe a religious person out there would go so far as to admit to doubt about their beliefs. I guess that was too much to hope for. Strangely, only one person has gone so far as to reiterate their religious beliefs on this thread. Where are all the others...?
Religion & spirituality is an interesting thing. I don't think most people cling dogmatically to 1 set of beliefs for their entire life. I'm young, a kid by some people's standards, and I'm on my 3rd set of beliefs, though I didn't make the shifts instantly they were all transitions that took place over time. I feel that I have found what makes sense to me now, but who knows? I could change again and again.
I think we all have moments of doubt and moments of extreme strength. Doubt is harder for most people to express than strong faith and when you begin a thread the way you did you put people on the defensive. Did you really expect anyone to allow themselves to be vulnerable given the way you started? Really?
What I have seen is that the people that are the least secure in their beliefs are the ones that go at it the loudest and that is both the fundamentalist Christian and the hardcore Atheist. Both are really trying to convince themselves. I think what you saw here were responses from people that are pretty secure in their belief systems.
I hope something I've said here will resonate with you and you will see the truth in it. If not, that's ok too, I can only be honest and put out positive energy, I can't make anyone accept it. But if you get nothing else from this can I respectfully suggest you approach this subject with more sensitivity if you hope to have meaningful discussion? I think you'll get much better results.
Religion & spirituality is an interesting thing. I don't think most people cling dogmatically to 1 set of beliefs for their entire life. I'm young, a kid by some people's standards, and I'm on my 3rd set of beliefs, though I didn't make the shifts instantly they were all transitions that took place over time. I feel that I have found what makes sense to me now, but who knows? I could change again and again.
I think we all have moments of doubt and moments of extreme strength. Doubt is harder for most people to express than strong faith and when you begin a thread the way you did you put people on the defensive. Did you really expect anyone to allow themselves to be vulnerable given the way you started? Really?
What I have seen is that the people that are the least secure in their beliefs are the ones that go at it the loudest and that is both the fundamentalist Christian and the hardcore Atheist. Both are really trying to convince themselves. I think what you saw here were responses from people that are pretty secure in their belief systems.
I hope something I've said here will resonate with you and you will see the truth in it. If not, that's ok too, I can only be honest and put out positive energy, I can't make anyone accept it. But if you get nothing else from this can I respectfully suggest you approach this subject with more sensitivity if you hope to have meaningful discussion? I think you'll get much better results.
Conceded.
Its not that I feel insecure about my beliefs, I do, but that's not why I started this thread. And anyway, shouldn't one feel insecure about their beliefs? A little skepticism never hurt anyone.
Sometimes I get very angry because I've experienced the hypocrosies and cruelties of organized religion far more than its better qualities. Or should I say, those of its adherents. I get resentful and allow myself to react to those feelings before thinking rationally about them(contradictory to my own sig).
Sometimes it just takes a thoughtful articulation to get through to my rational side. Thanks, Amanda.
Skepticism is good. Even atheist poster-boy Richard Dawkins states plainly that no one can ever say with 100% certainty that there is no god. However, I do want to point out that when you say you experienced the hypocrisies and cruelties of adherents rather than organized religion, I can't help but ask in what way do religions exist outside their adherents? It seems if there was some objective orthodoxy, then there would be no debate or divisions within religions. Since it is all subject to interpretation, then I say that perhaps the experiences you had with adherents are experiences of that religion. Obviously there are many religions and many gods- even within monotheism. Perhaps it would be simpler to say that you have had a far larger number of negative experiences with organized religious beliefs than positive ones?
Skepticism is good. Even atheist poster-boy Richard Dawkins states plainly that no one can ever say with 100% certainty that there is no god. However, I do want to point out that when you say you experienced the hypocrisies and cruelties of adherents rather than organized religion, I can't help but ask in what way do religions exist outside their adherents? It seems if there was some objective orthodoxy, then there would be no debate or divisions within religions. Since it is all subject to interpretation, then I say that perhaps the experiences you had with adherents are experiences of that religion. Obviously there are many religions and many gods- even within monotheism. Perhaps it would be simpler to say that you have had a far larger number of negative experiences with organized religious beliefs than positive ones?
Okay, but it seems like splitting hairs.
See, you are looking for people to doubt their religion, and you don't think that's an attack?
Do you think its an attack? Or a reaffirmation?
Because your friend in Botswana is still alive and even though you suspect you will never see him/her again, you don't know that and you do know that you can contact him/her anytime you really want to. That isn't available if your friend is dead.
You grieve because your loved one is no longer with you, you don't grieve for the departed, they are already gone nothing you can do will affect them. It doesn't matter if you believe in an afterlife or not.
My Aunt knew she was dying and held a "celebration" of her life. We all went to see her one last time. She was happy to see us all and we were happy to see her. When she died, there was no funeral, she didn't want one, she felt she'd already had it. She wanted a wake, and she wanted to be there. It's wonderful that she was able to have her wishes fulfilled. I hope I can do the same when my time comes. I don't want a funeral, I want a party.
Now we are back to the fact that you don't really want an answer to your question, you just wanted to find another way to attack religion.
No, I really did want an answer. And I think that from the last few posts that I got one. Del put it to me very well.
I also thought that maybe a religious person out there would go so far as to admit to doubt about their beliefs. I guess that was too much to hope for. Strangely, only one person has gone so far as to reiterate their religious beliefs on this thread. Where are all the others...?
