Why Conservatives hate...

[antagon]

unions have discredited themselves as a service to employees, consumers, businesses... anything other than their own posterity. labor is certainly a commodity for trade unions, above any institution one can point a finger at.

 

[midcan5]

As noted above conservatives are primarily reactive, change scares them but they offer no solutions to the realities of the times. Read a bit of history and you see the same tired excuses for why change won't work. Albert Hirschman url-ed below calls this reactionary tactic by three thesis tags: Perversity, futility, and jeopardy. Or 'it will make things worse, it won't work, or it will ruin existing structure. This is built into how they see the world, and changing it may be impossible - it is why, if Obama wants to get something good done, he needs to pull an FDR and just do it.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Rhetoric-Reaction-Perversity-Futility-Jeopardy/dp/067476868X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c]Amazon.com: The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy (9780674768680): Albert O. Hirschman: Books[/ame]


'In the Real World of Work and Wages, Trickle-Down Theories Don’t Hold Up'

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/business/12scene.html?_r=1

Conservative opposition to Progress:

A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress | Conceptual Guerilla

Conservative support for the wealthy

The Conservative Nanny State


Si modo negative reps me and calls me a liar for this post. Does he not prove the very thesis? He reacts and doesn't think nor counter the argument. I find it weird that the conservatives constantly negative rep ideas that conflict with their worldview. It demonstrates strongly the fascist element of their mindset and behavior. 'Do as I say.' Seem consistent with their want to control the lives of others.

Conservatives on Freedom:

'Next time you hear a conservative ranting about the wonder and joys of freedom, tell them: "Yeah, no kidding, freedom is a really good thing. You'd like it even better if you actually tried it out some time"."

David Michael Green: If Conservatism is the Ideology of Freedom ....

 

[Cuyo]

Why do Conservatives hate organized labor? Is it because the Conservatives don't want labor protected? Is it because Conservatives see labor as a commodity? One that should respond to market forces like supply and demand?

Why do conservatives hate civil liberties? Is it because the Conservatives see civil liberties as a hindrance to commerce (I believe commerce is all that really matters to a Conservative)? Is it because Conservatives feel too much freedom is a dangerous thing?

Why do Conservatives hate economically disadvantaged people? They seem to get worked up about unemployment benefits. They seem to have utter contempt for the poor.

Why do Conservatives hate environmentalism? Can it be that Conservatism demands pollution? Again, I believe that as commerce is the single most important thing to Conservatives. Anything that may hinder commerce from doing whatever the hell it wants has to be bad by default.

I know I'm going to take heat for a thread that picks at so many scabs, but these are the issues which seem to divide this country most politically. If some Conservatives want to answer these and other questions honestly, I'd appreciate it.

What a bunch of bogus straw man questions. They don't deserve the dignity of a response - they are just "when did you stop beating your wife" accusations.

I don't think they're strawmen, I mean this one - Why do Conservatives hate organized labor? Is it because the Conservatives don't want labor protected? Is it because Conservatives see labor as a commodity? One that should respond to market forces like supply and demand? - is a good question. However it's a closed question which limits its usefulness, I'll concede that. But conservatives and reactionaries do hate organised labour and they want it dismantled and they want to see workers exposed to the twin laws of supply and demand because they believe that's how things should be.

Cons have no right to oppose organized labor. It's a function of capitalism. Workers have the right to organize to prevent being exploited and abused by their bosses. Sure, they usually support Dems due to their reciprocal support of Labor, but they are not government instruments.

 

[Cuyo]

Why do Conservatives hate organized labor? Is it because the Conservatives don't want labor protected? Is it because Conservatives see labor as a commodity? One that should respond to market forces like supply and demand?

Why do conservatives hate civil liberties? Is it because the Conservatives see civil liberties as a hindrance to commerce (I believe commerce is all that really matters to a Conservative)? Is it because Conservatives feel too much freedom is a dangerous thing?

Why do Conservatives hate economically disadvantaged people? They seem to get worked up about unemployment benefits. They seem to have utter contempt for the poor.

Why do Conservatives hate environmentalism? Can it be that Conservatism demands pollution? Again, I believe that as commerce is the single most important thing to Conservatives. Anything that may hinder commerce from doing whatever the hell it wants has to be bad by default.

I know I'm going to take heat for a thread that picks at so many scabs, but these are the issues which seem to divide this country most politically. If some Conservatives want to answer these and other questions honestly, I'd appreciate it.

What Scabs do you pick? The only ONES are in the minds of YOUR likes, and those of your compadres that SEEK rather actively to pit ONE American against another by dividing them into groups...and compartmentalising them for your further sick twisted 'FUN'.

As to this 'Groupthink' Mentality of YOU and your sick-twisted Statists/Progressive brothers/Sisters?

We Conservatives are onto you...WE aren't buying this PERVERSION what YOU have been selling over the decades. And it appears that the PEOPLE are much like us...in FACT they *ARE* US.

You are welcome to plod on...but no one is stepping on the flaming bag of unadultrated HORSESHIT that you present.

I am stepping AROUND it as to present it to your olefactory delight. it STINKS as does YOUR THREAD HERE.

My advice to you is to wake the Hell up. *YOU* are outnumbered by those that YOU make fun of.

You didn't actually address anything he said. There are not nearly as many nutballs out there, which you're calling "Those [he makes] fun of." It appears you may see an un-realistic majority presented in situations in which you place yourself. You think Liberals/Moderate Leftists in this country are outnumbered by crony capitalists? Far from it.

Mark Levin. Now there's a fine role model. He has quite an effect on the feeble minded though doesn't he.

 

[AllieBaba]

What a bunch of bogus straw man questions. They don't deserve the dignity of a response - they are just "when did you stop beating your wife" accusations.

I don't think they're strawmen, I mean this one - Why do Conservatives hate organized labor? Is it because the Conservatives don't want labor protected? Is it because Conservatives see labor as a commodity? One that should respond to market forces like supply and demand? - is a good question. However it's a closed question which limits its usefulness, I'll concede that. But conservatives and reactionaries do hate organised labour and they want it dismantled and they want to see workers exposed to the twin laws of supply and demand because they believe that's how things should be.

Cons have no right to oppose organized labor. It's a function of capitalism. Workers have the right to organize to prevent being exploited and abused by their bosses. Sure, they usually support Dems due to their reciprocal support of Labor, but they are not government instruments.

Actually, they do have the right to oppose. It's a function of freedom just as the right to organize is a function of freedom. In fact, it's the SAME function of freedom.

 

[Gunny]

Why Conservatives hate...

... really stupid thread titles? I can't imagine why anyone would get tired of THAT.

 

[Cuyo]

I don't think they're strawmen, I mean this one - Why do Conservatives hate organized labor? Is it because the Conservatives don't want labor protected? Is it because Conservatives see labor as a commodity? One that should respond to market forces like supply and demand? - is a good question. However it's a closed question which limits its usefulness, I'll concede that. But conservatives and reactionaries do hate organised labour and they want it dismantled and they want to see workers exposed to the twin laws of supply and demand because they believe that's how things should be.

Cons have no right to oppose organized labor. It's a function of capitalism. Workers have the right to organize to prevent being exploited and abused by their bosses. Sure, they usually support Dems due to their reciprocal support of Labor, but they are not government instruments.

Actually, they do have the right to oppose. It's a function of freedom just as the right to organize is a function of freedom. In fact, it's the SAME function of freedom.

You're right, I almost went back and edited that. I should've said no justification. In this country, you have the right to oppose anything you want.

 

[Foxfyre]

Cons have no right to oppose organized labor. It's a function of capitalism. Workers have the right to organize to prevent being exploited and abused by their bosses. Sure, they usually support Dems due to their reciprocal support of Labor, but they are not government instruments.

Actually, they do have the right to oppose. It's a function of freedom just as the right to organize is a function of freedom. In fact, it's the SAME function of freedom.

You're right, I almost went back and edited that. I should've said no justification. In this country, you have the right to oppose anything you want.

Conservatives have every right AND every justificiation to oppose organized labor that is in bed with government, that receives special deals and dispensation from our elected representatives, that create crises that prompts their buddies in Washington to funnel the people's money to resolve, that forces closure or downscaling of businesses and costs jobs or drives them overseas.

All organized labor isn't bad and some do provide a useful service to the workers they serve, the employers, and their communities as a whole. And some are so corrupt and so detrimental to the workers, the employers, and the community as a whole, they should be shut down.

Just one example: Obama's/Congress's promise to the unions that if they support Obamacare, they will be exempt from prescribed taxes/penalities and won't be affected in any way.

That's just wrong.

 

[AllieBaba]

Get used to it, it will get worse before it gets better.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Why Conservatives hate...

... really stupid thread titles? I can't imagine why anyone would get tired of THAT.

Thanks for that brilliant contribution and insight

 

[Bern80]

Why do Conservatives hate organized labor?

Because they make it more difficult for business to do business and by in large isn't neccessary.

Is it because the Conservatives don't want labor protected?

Unions aren're required to do this. On top of that Unions have evolved long past the point of simply protecting labor. Both entities in the relationship, employer/employee, should be equally protected.

Is it because Conservatives see labor as a commodity?

It is a commodity. It is something business purchases.

One that should respond to market forces like supply and demand?

Yes. There isn't any reason to believe it should function any other way. Business' pay for skills. The more scarce the skill the more valuable you are and the more you will be paid. We people talk about unfairness to workers they really are only referencing unskilled labor because business' pay skilled labor quite well and don't need unions to tell them what to pay. Businesses actually compete for those skill sets more rare.

Why do conservatives hate civil liberties?

They don't. I haven't seen any attempt by the right lately to reinstitute slavery, or keep women from voting. If you are referring to gay rights, they have every right every other person does. In terms of gay marriage, the government shouldn't be recognizing anybody's marriage, straight or gay, imo.

Is it because the Conservatives see civil liberties as a hindrance to commerce (I believe commerce is all that really matters to a Conservative)?

NO

Is it because Conservatives feel too much freedom is a dangerous thing?

Make no mistake, freedom is indeed a dangerous concept. It means allowing people to make bad decisions as well and suffer the repercussions of them.

Why do Conservatives hate economically disadvantaged people?

We don't

They seem to get worked up about unemployment benefits. They seem to have utter contempt for the poor.

For myself I have contempt for people that blame others for the situtation they are in and expect others to fix it for them. We simply believe in personal accountablity. The simple FACT is that is a concept the left avoids like the plague. It's NEVER the individuals fault they are in the postion they are in. I don't have a problem with charity or helping those in a rough spot. I have a problem with the left telling me I owe it to them.

Why do Conservatives hate environmentalism?

They don't

Can it be that Conservatism demands pollution?

It doesn't. The simple fact is consumers buy what is in their best interest. Their best interest is to keep as much money as they can. Right now fossil fules are the most efficient way of creating energy. When 'green' energy becomes more cost effective, people will buy it.

Again, I believe that as commerce is the single most important thing to Conservatives. Anything that may hinder commerce from doing whatever the hell it wants has to be bad by default.

Your beliefs are incorrect. Either you want to know the truth of what conservatives believe or you want to stick with what the opposition says they beleive. Take your pick. I'll place my bet.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Why do Conservatives hate organized labor?

Because they make it more difficult for business to do business and by in large isn't neccessary.

No? Do you realize how things were before the unions existed?

 

[AllieBaba]

That was a long time ago. Unions are a corrupt mess, have resulted in the decimation of our education system.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Then stop outsourcing, tell the State to back out of the mess that is union negotiations, and let the unions, the scabs, and the companies figure it out.


You know, free market and all that.

 

[Bern80]

Why do Conservatives hate organized labor?

Because they make it more difficult for business to do business and by in large isn't neccessary.

No? Do you realize how things were before the unions existed?

Before my time. But I know how it is now with businesses that don't have them. For people with valuable skill sets, unions are a non issue.

 

[Diuretic]

Because they make it more difficult for business to do business and by in large isn't neccessary.

No? Do you realize how things were before the unions existed?

Before my time. But I know how it is now with businesses that don't have them. For people with valuable skill sets, unions are a non issue.

I'd have to disagree.

American Medical Association

 

[Foxfyre]

Why do Conservatives hate organized labor?

Because they make it more difficult for business to do business and by in large isn't neccessary.

No? Do you realize how things were before the unions existed?

Do you realize how things were before the internal combustion engine? But despite all the good that has been accomplished, should we not require a reasonable standard of safety in their use? And take the unsafe apparatus off the road or out of the system?

Do you realize how things were before electricity was harnessed? But shall we do away with the U.L. certification or not warn people in the proper and safe use of electrical apparatus? Shall we leave unsafe wiring in place or demand that it be replaced or fixed?

Do you realize how things were before the American Revolution? But do you now think that everything every politician has done and all government policy and intiatives are wonderful or even honest and ethical? Because so much good has been done do we then just ignore the bad, the corrupt, the damaging, the dishonest, the unethical?

Do you honestly think that because unions have done some good in the past and/or the present that all unions now have the health and welfare of business in mind and/or they are noble institutions? That they operate honestly and ethically? That there is no downside? That there should be no interest in the harm that they do or can do?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Because they make it more difficult for business to do business and by in large isn't neccessary.

No? Do you realize how things were before the unions existed?

Do you realize how things were before the internal combustion engine? But despite all the good that has been accomplished, should we not require a reasonable standard of safety in their use? And take the unsafe apparatus off the road or out of the system?

Do you realize how things were before electricity was harnessed? But shall we do away with the U.L. certification or not warn people in the proper and safe use of electrical apparatus? Shall we leave unsafe wiring in place or demand that it be replaced or fixed?

Do you realize how things were before the American Revolution? But do you now think that everything every politician has done and all government policy and intiatives are wonderful or even honest and ethical? Because so much good has been done do we then just ignore the bad, the corrupt, the damaging, the dishonest, the unethical?

Do you honestly think that because unions have done some good in the past and/or the present that all unions now have the health and welfare of business in mind and/or they are noble institutions? That they operate honestly and ethically? That there is no downside? That there should be no interest in the harm that they do or can do?

Do I think unions are perfect? Of course not. But it's not their job to fight for the health and welfare of the business - it's their job to fight for the health and welfare of the workers. Businesses can fight for their own welfare.

Union involvement in politics is a counter-balance to business involvement in politics. If money = speech for corporations (like the SOTUS just ruled), why shouldn't it be the same for unions?

 

[Foxfyre]

No? Do you realize how things were before the unions existed?

Do you realize how things were before the internal combustion engine? But despite all the good that has been accomplished, should we not require a reasonable standard of safety in their use? And take the unsafe apparatus off the road or out of the system?

Do you realize how things were before electricity was harnessed? But shall we do away with the U.L. certification or not warn people in the proper and safe use of electrical apparatus? Shall we leave unsafe wiring in place or demand that it be replaced or fixed?

Do you realize how things were before the American Revolution? But do you now think that everything every politician has done and all government policy and intiatives are wonderful or even honest and ethical? Because so much good has been done do we then just ignore the bad, the corrupt, the damaging, the dishonest, the unethical?

Do you honestly think that because unions have done some good in the past and/or the present that all unions now have the health and welfare of business in mind and/or they are noble institutions? That they operate honestly and ethically? That there is no downside? That there should be no interest in the harm that they do or can do?

Do I think unions are perfect? Of course not. But it's not their job to fight for the health and welfare of the business - it's their job to fight for the health and welfare of the workers. Businesses can fight for their own welfare.

Union involvement in politics is a counter-balance to business involvement in politics. If money = speech for corporations (like the SOTUS just ruled), why shouldn't it be the same for unions?

The right to free speech requires no contribution from anybody else. It only requires their noninterference. I have no problem with unions lobbying for legislation that they want to see happen. I have a huge problem with unions getting deals or contracts or anything else from the government that nonunion people are not allowed to get.

The union corruption of which I speak requires HUGE contributions from others; and, when unions are afforded special privileges, dispensations, and payola from the public treasury, that requires what I believe to be an unconstitutional contribution from me.

When the government gives unions a free pass on the ramifications of a massive universal healthcare bill, that can affect the taxes that I pay and/or the cost of healthcare products that I will be required to purchase. And that, I believe, also requires an unconstitutional contribution from me and you and everybody else, and is just plain wrong.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you realize how things were before the internal combustion engine? But despite all the good that has been accomplished, should we not require a reasonable standard of safety in their use? And take the unsafe apparatus off the road or out of the system?

Do you realize how things were before electricity was harnessed? But shall we do away with the U.L. certification or not warn people in the proper and safe use of electrical apparatus? Shall we leave unsafe wiring in place or demand that it be replaced or fixed?

Do you realize how things were before the American Revolution? But do you now think that everything every politician has done and all government policy and intiatives are wonderful or even honest and ethical? Because so much good has been done do we then just ignore the bad, the corrupt, the damaging, the dishonest, the unethical?

Do you honestly think that because unions have done some good in the past and/or the present that all unions now have the health and welfare of business in mind and/or they are noble institutions? That they operate honestly and ethically? That there is no downside? That there should be no interest in the harm that they do or can do?

Do I think unions are perfect? Of course not. But it's not their job to fight for the health and welfare of the business - it's their job to fight for the health and welfare of the workers. Businesses can fight for their own welfare.

Union involvement in politics is a counter-balance to business involvement in politics. If money = speech for corporations (like the SOTUS just ruled), why shouldn't it be the same for unions?

The right to free speech requires no contribution from anybody else. It only requires their noninterference. I have no problem with unions lobbying for legislation that they want to see happen. I have a huge problem with unions getting deals or contracts or anything else from the government that nonunion people are not allowed to get.

The union corruption of which I speak requires HUGE contributions from others; and, when unions are afforded special privileges, dispensations, and payola from the public treasury, that requires what I believe to be an unconstitutional contribution from me.

When the government gives unions a free pass on the ramifications of a massive universal healthcare bill, that can affect the taxes that I pay and/or the cost of healthcare products that I will be required to purchase. And that, I believe, also requires an unconstitutional contribution from me and you and everybody else, and is just plain wrong.

So, you have no problems with unions lobbying - you only have a problem when they get what they want?

I don't agree with the healthcare plan, nor do I agree with the union deal for it. But to claim that this is any different from what corporate lobbyists do is pure naivete.

How do you think that companies get no-bid contracts? Or why environmental restrictions get rolled back?

The same way unions got their deal for the healthcare plan.

If you're going to be ok with one side, you have to be ok with both.