why believers in the one and only God, should not neglect serving the poor

[elvis]

regarding the OP, isn't that what the tithe is for?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You know nothing about any Biblical history and are as naive an individual as I have ever met.
Most times tithes were given IN CROPS AND OTHER MATERIALS. Nehimiah 13:5-12
Tithing was never money or income based then. Tithing was LAND based. In fact it was against the law to sell the tithe! One had to bring the tithe, THE PRODUCT, NOT WHAT THE PRODUCT WAS WORTH.
Mosaic law was written on an agricultural basis as the church played the role of the government then as those rules were passed down by Moses.
All over the Bible, the curses of not tithing are discussed.
Are you claiming the societies did not carry out the financial and societal curses dictated under Mosaic law and the Scriptures if someone did not tithe?
Can you name the 2 different tithes in the Bible?
Most Americans are totally ignorant of most everything in the Bible and the history of the day.

Show where the Bible states that those who do not tithe will be boycotted.

That is not what I said. I said that PEOPLE boycotted others that did not tithe.
If you do not know that the Bible is full of the curses. And in those days anyone that did not pay their tithe could not hold any office in the their ward, their church or their society.
People have suffered for centuries because they believed and were taught that if they tithe to their local church, THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY AND GOVERNMENT in those days, that God will bless them for it. The societal pressures to do so were ingrained in the very nature of tithing.
Malachi 3:8 God reprimands Isreal for not delivering the tithe and reiterates the blessings or curse that would be a result of whatever decision they made.
Tithing was almost like a tax in those days. The New Testament teaches otherwise but how many folks take the ENTIRE Bible literally now and through history.

I know what you stated and there is nothing in the Bible that supports that statement.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that tithing is a tax.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that if you do not tithe you cannot hold any office.

 

[elvis]

we are having a huge food drive right now for the StatI guess May is Food Pantry refill month for your state as well.....

I am sorry if i directed my comments to you personally....I did not mean to imply you are unjust, or cruel to the poor....

But, i still stand by "Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us to NOT help the poor in all that we do, INCLUDING with our government"

Tithing was a form of a mandated tax during the time of Christ...the church/synagogue elders, WERE the governing power...and they collectively took care of the needy, ALONG WITH everyone individually taking care of the poor.

so i think it was that "line" of yours regarding the Bible telling us that this should NOT be through our gvt, that set me off....because I don't believe it to be true, but misleading, for other Christians as well.

No one, especially not me, is talking salvation through the government. My salvation comes through Christ....this is not about salvation, this is about seeing Christ in all human beings, and treating them all, as if they were Christ....whether at the Church, stranger walking on the street, in court, or in prison, or even on this board....

and btw...good morning !

care

Ah well at least I understand where you were coming from now.

In my mind, leaving helping the poor up to the govt, is us being lazy and actually failing the poor. I dont have faith in the govt to help the poor and the track record, over time, has further strengthened my lack of faith. Thats where my comment stemmed from, its also why I take personal time one or two days a month to volunteer helping the community or those less fortunate.

Hey USMB, see how I asked before flipping out? See how I got a reasonable answer? Take some freaking notes!

you know I love you PP!

You down with PP?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Ah well at least I understand where you were coming from now.

In my mind, leaving helping the poor up to the govt, is us being lazy and actually failing the poor. I dont have faith in the govt to help the poor and the track record, over time, has further strengthened my lack of faith. Thats where my comment stemmed from, its also why I take personal time one or two days a month to volunteer helping the community or those less fortunate.

Hey USMB, see how I asked before flipping out? See how I got a reasonable answer? Take some freaking notes!

you know I love you PP!

You down with PP?

Yeah you know me (hoping you were referencing a song, lol)

 

[Care4all]

Whoa whoa whoa back up a bit there I didn't say some of those things.

I said the bible tells you that you are personally responsible to help those less fortunate than you. The bible does not talk about collective salvation, aka govt salvatation...it talks about individual salvation and redemption.

I'm ont sure why you are trying to imply I said anything other than what I typed? did my post come across to you the wrong way or something?

On a side note, when was the last time you volunteered to help the poor? I did food pantry duty in boston 2 weeks ago.

we are having a huge food drive right now for the StatI guess May is Food Pantry refill month for your state as well.....

I am sorry if i directed my comments to you personally....I did not mean to imply you are unjust, or cruel to the poor....

But, i still stand by "Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us to NOT help the poor in all that we do, INCLUDING with our government"

Tithing was a form of a mandated tax during the time of Christ...the church/synagogue elders, WERE the governing power...and they collectively took care of the needy, ALONG WITH everyone individually taking care of the poor.

so i think it was that "line" of yours regarding the Bible telling us that this should NOT be through our gvt, that set me off....because I don't believe it to be true, but misleading, for other Christians as well.

No one, especially not me, is talking salvation through the government. My salvation comes through Christ....this is not about salvation, this is about seeing Christ in all human beings, and treating them all, as if they were Christ....whether at the Church, stranger walking on the street, in court, or in prison, or even on this board....

and btw...good morning !

care

Ah well at least I understand where you were coming from now.

In my mind, leaving helping the poor up to the govt, is us being lazy and actually failing the poor. I dont have faith in the govt to help the poor and the track record, over time, has further strengthened my lack of faith. Thats where my comment stemmed from, its also why I take personal time one or two days a month to volunteer helping the community or those less fortunate.

Hey USMB, see how I asked before flipping out? See how I got a reasonable answer? Take some freaking notes!

And I do not think "leaving" it up to the gvt to help the poor is the answer.....we all need to do a better job individually....I know it sounds silly, but i voluntarily make shawls for the elderly in nursing homes, and afghans....we are small group of crochet-ers but we can turn out alot of shawls each month....I have also volunteered with meals on wheels, driving the food to their houses.... and of course, i have several charties that I favor with money....

IT STILL IS NOT ENOUGH....

I think I have lived a charmed life...In real life....I've never met a poor person, that wasn't truly poor....I never met a poor person that was scamming the system, I never met a poor person that chose to be poor, and I have never met a poor person that was not working, or a poor person buying filet Mignon with their food stamps.

I've only read the complaints from others regarding this, but have never met those kind of people in real life...the poor that i have been fortunate to meet....are good people with some tough circumstances....

 

[Intense]

You're using some quotes from the old testatment, if poor people are non-believers it's your duty as a christian to kill them.

Who made you "Fearless Leader" that you should Dictate what is right and wrong?

 

[xsited1]

why believers in the one and only God, should not neglect serving the poor

I told people not to vote for Obama. What else can I do?

 

[Gadawg73]

Show where the Bible states that those who do not tithe will be boycotted.

That is not what I said. I said that PEOPLE boycotted others that did not tithe.
If you do not know that the Bible is full of the curses. And in those days anyone that did not pay their tithe could not hold any office in the their ward, their church or their society.
People have suffered for centuries because they believed and were taught that if they tithe to their local church, THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY AND GOVERNMENT in those days, that God will bless them for it. The societal pressures to do so were ingrained in the very nature of tithing.
Malachi 3:8 God reprimands Isreal for not delivering the tithe and reiterates the blessings or curse that would be a result of whatever decision they made.
Tithing was almost like a tax in those days. The New Testament teaches otherwise but how many folks take the ENTIRE Bible literally now and through history.

I know what you stated and there is nothing in the Bible that supports that statement.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that tithing is a tax.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that if you do not tithe you cannot hold any office.

"Every year YOU MUST offer a special tithe of your crops." Deuteronomy
How much plainer do you need it Lonestar?
What about YOU MUST do you not understand?
Just because the Bible does not state it does not mean that it was not and is still not practiced.
Many wards and communities to this day in England and other countries will not let anyone serve in any government office or in any church position unless they tithe.
Just a fact.

 

[Care4all]

Show where the Bible states that those who do not tithe will be boycotted.

That is not what I said. I said that PEOPLE boycotted others that did not tithe.
If you do not know that the Bible is full of the curses. And in those days anyone that did not pay their tithe could not hold any office in the their ward, their church or their society.
People have suffered for centuries because they believed and were taught that if they tithe to their local church, THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY AND GOVERNMENT in those days, that God will bless them for it. The societal pressures to do so were ingrained in the very nature of tithing.
Malachi 3:8 God reprimands Isreal for not delivering the tithe and reiterates the blessings or curse that would be a result of whatever decision they made.
Tithing was almost like a tax in those days. The New Testament teaches otherwise but how many folks take the ENTIRE Bible literally now and through history.

I know what you stated and there is nothing in the Bible that supports that statement.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that tithing is a tax.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that if you do not tithe you cannot hold any office.

I didn't say that about holding an office, what office? you mean the higher echelon of the church leaders? I am certain that is true, even though it was not me that posted it....there is no way you could become a leader, if you did not personally tithe.

anyway, here's a good article on it

Bible.com

 

[Lonestar_logic]

That is not what I said. I said that PEOPLE boycotted others that did not tithe.
If you do not know that the Bible is full of the curses. And in those days anyone that did not pay their tithe could not hold any office in the their ward, their church or their society.
People have suffered for centuries because they believed and were taught that if they tithe to their local church, THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY AND GOVERNMENT in those days, that God will bless them for it. The societal pressures to do so were ingrained in the very nature of tithing.
Malachi 3:8 God reprimands Isreal for not delivering the tithe and reiterates the blessings or curse that would be a result of whatever decision they made.
Tithing was almost like a tax in those days. The New Testament teaches otherwise but how many folks take the ENTIRE Bible literally now and through history.

I know what you stated and there is nothing in the Bible that supports that statement.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that tithing is a tax.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that if you do not tithe you cannot hold any office.

"Every year YOU MUST offer a special tithe of your crops." Deuteronomy
How much plainer do you need it Lonestar?
What about YOU MUST do you not understand?
Just because the Bible does not state it does not mean that it was not and is still not practiced.
Many wards and communities to this day in England and other countries will not let anyone serve in any government office or in any church position unless they tithe.
Just a fact.

The only people who were commanded to give a tithe (tenth) unto God were the
children of Israel. The law which God gave to Israel through Moses required
Isael to give one-tenth of their goods to God. These verses teach the
tithing regulations God expected the nation of Israel to obey: Lev. 27:30;
Num. 18:21, Deut. 12:6; 14:28 26:12; 2Ch 31:5; Neh. 10:38; 12:44; 13:12; Mal
3:10.

The gospel of Jesus Christ does not command a tithe (10%). Whereas Israel
was to give a tithe, we are taught to "lay by in store as we have been
prospered (1 Cor. 16:2), and as we "purposeth in our heart" (2 Cor. 9:7),
which will "prove the sincerity of our love" (2 Cor. 8:8). Giving which is
void of first giving one's heart to the Lord does not please God (Mk.
12:41-44; 2 Cor. 8:5; 9:6-7).

Again, nowhere is it stated that tithing is a tax or that anyone would be boycotted for not tithing. Or that one can't hold office.

God commanded many things but not all commands were or are heeded.

Just you claiming that what you say is a fact. does not make it a fact.

Fact is, you haven't produced anything to supports your claim about tithing being a tax, boycotting those that do not tithe or not being able to hold office for not tithing.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

That is not what I said. I said that PEOPLE boycotted others that did not tithe.
If you do not know that the Bible is full of the curses. And in those days anyone that did not pay their tithe could not hold any office in the their ward, their church or their society.
People have suffered for centuries because they believed and were taught that if they tithe to their local church, THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY AND GOVERNMENT in those days, that God will bless them for it. The societal pressures to do so were ingrained in the very nature of tithing.
Malachi 3:8 God reprimands Isreal for not delivering the tithe and reiterates the blessings or curse that would be a result of whatever decision they made.
Tithing was almost like a tax in those days. The New Testament teaches otherwise but how many folks take the ENTIRE Bible literally now and through history.

I know what you stated and there is nothing in the Bible that supports that statement.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that tithing is a tax.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that if you do not tithe you cannot hold any office.

I didn't say that about holding an office, what office? you mean the higher echelon of the church leaders? I am certain that is true, even though it was not me that posted it....there is no way you could become a leader, if you did not personally tithe.

anyway, here's a good article on it

Bible.com

No one is saying you said anything about holding an office.

Reading comprehension....learn it!

Notice I quoted dumbdawg and not YOU!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

regarding the OP, isn't that what the tithe is for?

A LOT of people now consider paying taxes the tithe as they are being taxed to help the poor.

This leaves many with a mindset of "i paid my taxes so i dont have to do anything else" and I dont like that.

Sorry you just made that pop in my head

 

[Gadawg73]

I know what you stated and there is nothing in the Bible that supports that statement.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that tithing is a tax.

Nothing in the Bible supports your claim that if you do not tithe you cannot hold any office.

"Every year YOU MUST offer a special tithe of your crops." Deuteronomy
How much plainer do you need it Lonestar?
What about YOU MUST do you not understand?
Just because the Bible does not state it does not mean that it was not and is still not practiced.
Many wards and communities to this day in England and other countries will not let anyone serve in any government office or in any church position unless they tithe.
Just a fact.

The only people who were commanded to give a tithe (tenth) unto God were the
children of Israel. The law which God gave to Israel through Moses required
Isael to give one-tenth of their goods to God. These verses teach the
tithing regulations God expected the nation of Israel to obey: Lev. 27:30;
Num. 18:21, Deut. 12:6; 14:28 26:12; 2Ch 31:5; Neh. 10:38; 12:44; 13:12; Mal
3:10.

The gospel of Jesus Christ does not command a tithe (10%). Whereas Israel
was to give a tithe, we are taught to "lay by in store as we have been
prospered (1 Cor. 16:2), and as we "purposeth in our heart" (2 Cor. 9:7),
which will "prove the sincerity of our love" (2 Cor. 8:8). Giving which is
void of first giving one's heart to the Lord does not please God (Mk.
12:41-44; 2 Cor. 8:5; 9:6-7).

Again, nowhere is it stated that tithing is a tax or that anyone would be boycotted for not tithing. Or that one can't hold office.

God commanded many things but not all commands were or are heeded.

Just you claiming that what you say is a fact. does not make it a fact.

Fact is, you haven't produced anything to supports your claim about tithing being a tax, boycotting those that do not tithe or not being able to hold office for not tithing.

You know nothing about American history Lonestar. Do they teach history where you live?
In the Massachussetss colony IT WAS THE LAW that every man had to attend church and tithe. The law stated and authorized the church to call it a "tax". However, the law stated that you could be any denomination.
More historical FACT for the uninformed here:
The 1789 Georgia Legislature: Article IV, Section 10 AMENDED"No person shall be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgement, NOR SHALL HE EVER BE OBLIGED TO PAY TITHES, TAXES, or any other rate for the building or repairing any place of worship or for the maintenance of the minister".
AMENDED because the previous law COMPELLED citizens to pay tithes and TAXES to the church.
Damn, Lonestar. You do not research anything, study no history and read nothing.
Want more?

 

[Gadawg73]

"Every year YOU MUST offer a special tithe of your crops." Deuteronomy
How much plainer do you need it Lonestar?
What about YOU MUST do you not understand?
Just because the Bible does not state it does not mean that it was not and is still not practiced.
Many wards and communities to this day in England and other countries will not let anyone serve in any government office or in any church position unless they tithe.
Just a fact.

The only people who were commanded to give a tithe (tenth) unto God were the
children of Israel. The law which God gave to Israel through Moses required
Isael to give one-tenth of their goods to God. These verses teach the
tithing regulations God expected the nation of Israel to obey: Lev. 27:30;
Num. 18:21, Deut. 12:6; 14:28 26:12; 2Ch 31:5; Neh. 10:38; 12:44; 13:12; Mal
3:10.

The gospel of Jesus Christ does not command a tithe (10%). Whereas Israel
was to give a tithe, we are taught to "lay by in store as we have been
prospered (1 Cor. 16:2), and as we "purposeth in our heart" (2 Cor. 9:7),
which will "prove the sincerity of our love" (2 Cor. 8:8). Giving which is
void of first giving one's heart to the Lord does not please God (Mk.
12:41-44; 2 Cor. 8:5; 9:6-7).

Again, nowhere is it stated that tithing is a tax or that anyone would be boycotted for not tithing. Or that one can't hold office.

God commanded many things but not all commands were or are heeded.

Just you claiming that what you say is a fact. does not make it a fact.

Fact is, you haven't produced anything to supports your claim about tithing being a tax, boycotting those that do not tithe or not being able to hold office for not tithing.

You know nothing about American history Lonestar. Do they teach history where you live?
In the Massachussetss colony IT WAS THE LAW that every man had to attend church and tithe. The law stated and authorized the church to call it a "tax". However, the law stated that you could be any denomination.
More historical FACT for the uninformed here:
The 1789 Georgia Legislature: Article IV, Section 10 AMENDED"No person shall be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgement, NOR SHALL HE EVER BE OBLIGED TO PAY TITHES, TAXES, or any other rate for the building or repairing any place of worship or for the maintenance of the minister".
AMENDED because the previous law COMPELLED citizens to pay tithes and TAXES to the church.
Damn, Lonestar. You do not research anything, study no history and read nothing.
Want more?

The right to receive and demand tithes was given to the churches in England in 855 by King Ethelwulf. The Saladin tithe was a royal TAX but assigned using church boundaries.
Tithes were given LEGAL FORCE by the Statute of Westminister of 1285.
Read the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith Lonestar.
You will learn all about tithes and everything I state is true.
Want more?

 

[LumpyPostage]

What religion is telling people to neglect the poor?

 

[Avatar4321]

What religion is telling people to neglect the poor?

Secular progressivism which teaches people to outsource their responsibilities to the poor to the government.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

What religion is telling people to neglect the poor?

Secular progressivism which teaches people to outsource their responsibilities to the poor to the government.

Thats a perfect way to explain it!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The only people who were commanded to give a tithe (tenth) unto God were the
children of Israel. The law which God gave to Israel through Moses required
Isael to give one-tenth of their goods to God. These verses teach the
tithing regulations God expected the nation of Israel to obey: Lev. 27:30;
Num. 18:21, Deut. 12:6; 14:28 26:12; 2Ch 31:5; Neh. 10:38; 12:44; 13:12; Mal
3:10.

The gospel of Jesus Christ does not command a tithe (10%). Whereas Israel
was to give a tithe, we are taught to "lay by in store as we have been
prospered (1 Cor. 16:2), and as we "purposeth in our heart" (2 Cor. 9:7),
which will "prove the sincerity of our love" (2 Cor. 8:8). Giving which is
void of first giving one's heart to the Lord does not please God (Mk.
12:41-44; 2 Cor. 8:5; 9:6-7).

Again, nowhere is it stated that tithing is a tax or that anyone would be boycotted for not tithing. Or that one can't hold office.

God commanded many things but not all commands were or are heeded.

Just you claiming that what you say is a fact. does not make it a fact.

Fact is, you haven't produced anything to supports your claim about tithing being a tax, boycotting those that do not tithe or not being able to hold office for not tithing.

You know nothing about American history Lonestar. Do they teach history where you live?
In the Massachussetss colony IT WAS THE LAW that every man had to attend church and tithe. The law stated and authorized the church to call it a "tax". However, the law stated that you could be any denomination.
More historical FACT for the uninformed here:
The 1789 Georgia Legislature: Article IV, Section 10 AMENDED"No person shall be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgement, NOR SHALL HE EVER BE OBLIGED TO PAY TITHES, TAXES, or any other rate for the building or repairing any place of worship or for the maintenance of the minister".
AMENDED because the previous law COMPELLED citizens to pay tithes and TAXES to the church.
Damn, Lonestar. You do not research anything, study no history and read nothing.
Want more?

The right to receive and demand tithes was given to the churches in England in 855 by King Ethelwulf. The Saladin tithe was a royal TAX but assigned using church boundaries.
Tithes were given LEGAL FORCE by the Statute of Westminister of 1285.
Read the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith Lonestar.
You will learn all about tithes and everything I state is true.
Want more?

No I've heard enough.

Seems you change the argument when you're shown to be wrong.

You went from the Bible to European and Pre-colonial law.

Cite the Massechusetts and Georgia law that mandated you go to church and tithe.

 

[Gadawg73]

You know nothing about American history Lonestar. Do they teach history where you live?
In the Massachussetss colony IT WAS THE LAW that every man had to attend church and tithe. The law stated and authorized the church to call it a "tax". However, the law stated that you could be any denomination.
More historical FACT for the uninformed here:
The 1789 Georgia Legislature: Article IV, Section 10 AMENDED"No person shall be compelled to attend any place of worship contrary to his own faith or judgement, NOR SHALL HE EVER BE OBLIGED TO PAY TITHES, TAXES, or any other rate for the building or repairing any place of worship or for the maintenance of the minister".
AMENDED because the previous law COMPELLED citizens to pay tithes and TAXES to the church.
Damn, Lonestar. You do not research anything, study no history and read nothing.
Want more?

The right to receive and demand tithes was given to the churches in England in 855 by King Ethelwulf. The Saladin tithe was a royal TAX but assigned using church boundaries.
Tithes were given LEGAL FORCE by the Statute of Westminister of 1285.
Read the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith Lonestar.
You will learn all about tithes and everything I state is true.
Want more?

No I've heard enough.

Seems you change the argument when you're shown to be wrong.

You went from the Bible to European and Pre-colonial law.

Cite the Massechusetts and Georgia law that mandated you go to church and tithe.

Not me, THOSE THAT LIVED THEN.
You are the one that runs from the facts like a monkey on fire.
Because you have not disputed any of the facts I have posted.
Tithes were REQUIRED at many times over the history of Christianity and if you didn't tithe you WERE PERSECUTED as a result of it.
Tithes were A TAX BY LAW mandated by government at many times over the history of Christianity.
You claimed they never were. You are a bald faced liar and you know it.

 

[Gadawg73]

Lonestar believes that everyone over history went strictly by the Bible and never forced tithes on citizens and required them by statute.
Different governments and Christian denominations have INTERPRETED the Bible differently and according to what best fit their needs to CONTROL the citizens over the last 2000 years.
Scary that those that deny that also do not know that is EXACTLY why the Founders ran from that and God is not mentioned in our laws anywhere and there is NO RELIGOUS TEST to hold any public office.