CDZ Why aren't we addressing the gun issue as a cultural problem?

[Blues Man]

When I was a kid, there were guns all over the place. Eight year old boys got a 22 for their birthday. Family picnics found us out back shooting holes in targets.
We weren't shooting each other so it isn't the guns. It is something else. Let's look for that something else.

Bingo, exactly. Somewhere along the line, life became cheap.
.

Do you think that when innocent babies became a commodity and were executed in or out of the womb, that "life" just wasn't as precious as it was before?

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Human life has been devalued by leftists.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Do you have any idea how easy it is to kill a human being? So easy, in fact that it's a miracle every morning when we wake up. Life is fragile and precious.

Many people who kill in self defense are psychologically scarred for life even though they believed they were acting righteously.

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

I know there are some who will deny this, but it's pretty clear our culture in general has been in decay for a few generations now.

In reality, the cheapening of lives has been predictable. It's just part of the decay.
.

It hasn't decayed. Its been brutally attacked. But here are the facts...

(1) the second amendment is more than 200 years old
(2) mass shootings are a recent phenomenon
(3)liberal attacks on our society and culture are a recent phenomenon

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

Why restrict people who have never committed a crime?

And a semiautomatic rifle is a semiautomatic rifle no matter what it looks like. And semiautomatic rifles have been produced for civilian use for over 100 years.

Seriously if you were really worried about murder rates you would be calling for banning all handguns. I would still oppose you but it is a better argument than banning rifles

I suppose you're right. Maybe I need to think about including handguns in my ban, but I thought people should have the right to personal protection if it means so much to them.

Rifles can be used for personal protection too.

 

[Marion Morrison]

When I was a kid, there were guns all over the place. Eight year old boys got a 22 for their birthday. Family picnics found us out back shooting holes in targets.
We weren't shooting each other so it isn't the guns. It is something else. Let's look for that something else.

Bingo, exactly. Somewhere along the line, life became cheap.
.

Do you think that when innocent babies became a commodity and were executed in or out of the womb, that "life" just wasn't as precious as it was before?

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Human life has been devalued by leftists.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Do you have any idea how easy it is to kill a human being? So easy, in fact that it's a miracle every morning when we wake up. Life is fragile and precious.

Many people who kill in self defense are psychologically scarred for life even though they believed they were acting righteously.

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

I know there are some who will deny this, but it's pretty clear our culture in general has been in decay for a few generations now.

In reality, the cheapening of lives has been predictable. It's just part of the decay.
.

It hasn't decayed. Its been brutally attacked. But here are the facts...

(1) the second amendment is more than 200 years old
(2) mass shootings are a recent phenomenon
(3)liberal attacks on our society and culture are a recent phenomenon

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

Why restrict people who have never committed a crime?

And a semiautomatic rifle is a semiautomatic rifle no matter what it looks like. And semiautomatic rifles have been produced for civilian use for over 100 years.

Seriously if you were really worried about murder rates you would be calling for banning all handguns. I would still oppose you but it is a better argument than banning rifles

I suppose you're right. Maybe I need to think about including handguns in my ban, but I thought people should have the right to personal protection if it means so much to them.

Rifles can be used for personal protection too.

Better take that concussive blast into account. Seriously, I can be 5 feet away and feel it. It goes through your whole body.

ARs are loud like that without having any ass behind the bullet. Wait, I suppose I mean IN the bullet.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Good OP Mac.

I think we can start with three places:

1. Trauma, which we're just starting to scratch the surface on. Trauma that is now handed down generation to generation. Children who were traumatized growing up, raising children who are traumatized, who grow up---and on, and on. Pretty soon this seems almost to imprint on the genes, somehow. I would not be surprised.

2. Busted-Up Families. See above. Which leads to

3. Isolation. We are so isolated from each other and our communities.

These are big topics but I think it's a start.

Trauma can only be used as an excuse for so long.

I'm not talking about excuses. I'm talking about reasons our culture might be fermenting so many of these killers.

There is no excuse as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Good OP Mac.

I think we can start with three places:

1. Trauma, which we're just starting to scratch the surface on. Trauma that is now handed down generation to generation. Children who were traumatized growing up, raising children who are traumatized, who grow up---and on, and on. Pretty soon this seems almost to imprint on the genes, somehow. I would not be surprised.

2. Busted-Up Families. See above. Which leads to

3. Isolation. We are so isolated from each other and our communities.

These are big topics but I think it's a start.

Trauma can only be used as an excuse for so long.

I'm not talking about excuses. I'm talking about reasons our culture might be fermenting so many of these killers.

There is no excuse as far as I'm concerned.

One is wanting to deny God and absolute morality in order to "just do what you feel".

I ain't no saint..but yeah, that's how it is.

 

[Taz]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Good OP Mac.

I think we can start with three places:

1. Trauma, which we're just starting to scratch the surface on. Trauma that is now handed down generation to generation. Children who were traumatized growing up, raising children who are traumatized, who grow up---and on, and on. Pretty soon this seems almost to imprint on the genes, somehow. I would not be surprised.

2. Busted-Up Families. See above. Which leads to

3. Isolation. We are so isolated from each other and our communities.

These are big topics but I think it's a start.

Trauma can only be used as an excuse for so long.

I'm not talking about excuses. I'm talking about reasons our culture might be fermenting so many of these killers.

There is no excuse as far as I'm concerned.

One is wanting to deny God and absolute morality in order to "just do what you feel".

I ain't no saint..but yeah, that's how it is.

So you're saying that all mass murderers are atheists? Got a link? Or is it just fartsmoke?

 

[Pete7469]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Humans are soft and fragile, sometimes it's hard to avoid killing them, especially stupid ones that wander into traffic like AOC would if she didn't have handlers.

Murder would happen a lot less if more people had a belief that the consequences of committing that sin was actually a SIN, and would result in their soul being tormented for eternity.

For whatever reason, having faith in that is somehow a bad thing in our modern society.

It's not the tool that matters, it's the increasing amount of people who are willing to kill and will use whatever means to do so. Take all the guns away, they will use bombs, poison, trucks, blades, or whatever.

.

 

[Pete7469]

El Paso is "binational." You did hear that six or seven of the shoppers killed in WalMart were from across the border in Mexico? People are back and forth from both countries all the time.
I live on the border with Canada, and it is the same here. We have shoppers from Canada at our local Walmart all the time and Americans are in St. Stephen just as often. There is an annual International Festival to celebrate the "binational" state of affairs. Somehow, the Candians don't upset us.

They speak the same language and always go home at the end of the day. They're not bringing dope in bundles for sale on the streets, raping people as they cross, cutting fences, assaulting LEO's, driving drunk without insurance, taking entry level jobs, driving slow in the left lane, going on welfare, getting free housing, stuffing our schools with illiterate unwashed, unvaccinated kids that don't speak the language, choking our emergency rooms or demanding to be accommodated in any other way.

That's why canucks don't piss us off.


.

 

[Pete7469]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

That's the left's actual agenda, they give no fucks about people in all honesty.

 

[G.T.]

If its statistically rare for a person to become a mass-shooter - then mass-shooting is not indicative of an issue with our culture, it's an issue with OUTLIERS of our culture.

Mass shooters are OUTLIERS, not the norm.

It takes a mature-minded person to put the 24/7 news cycle down, and see things for what they are which is why Tyson posted what he posted.

Perspective is hard to do for drama queens.

 

[Olde Europe]

Whenever I see the words "gun" and "culture" slapped together, I find myself looking for a solid two-by-four. The two have nothing to do with each other. A gun is a tool, serving certain purposes, just like a screwdriver. No one ever was demented enough to call this a "screwdriver culture", even while screwdrivers probably are more prevalent than guns. The common, demented obsession with guns - as fueled by smallish men compensating for their impotence with potent weaponry and a gun industry and its associated lobby - has nothing to do with culture. Not a thing. It's just an obsession, sort of a sickness. Just as smallish men going for their ultimate ego trip with their ersatz penis have nothing to do with culture.

If you aren't sure of your manliness, and can't walk through modern life in any way other than perennially frightened by your own shadow - and everybody else's - you can choose to become a Breivik clone, and easy access to guns facilitates that, the more powerful the "better". Or you could try to seek help and get along with yourself without unloading the effects of your own dysfunction on others.

If there's anything by way of "culture" to be found in all of this, it's the common assumption up and down the food chain that there isn't a problem - from crime to foreign adversaries - that cannot in some way or form be shot dead. It's mostly self-defeating, but the societal learning-by-example on the level of a four-year-old is probably having some gross effects on the developmentally challenged.

 

[DOTR]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

Please explain why the 2nd no longer applies.

In my eyes it's needed now more than ever except during the revolutionary war.

There is no part of the our Constitution, political heritage, our people or our culture she doesnt hate. Ask her about the electoral college.

 

[DOTR]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

What a Communist thing to say.

"29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis. "

The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals

Most of what she says has communist origins. The things we spent blood and treasure fighting against for half a century.
The communist propaganda poster below says "Comrades turn in your guns!" They always fear an armed citizenry.

 

[DOTR]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

And to answer your question (you did ask)...its because politics equals power for a certain group. Americans have been trained, as a diversion, that politics is the answer to everything and greater Federal control equals greater happiness.
They have been trained that philosophical questions or moral questions are irrelevant..only governing questions are relevant.
Brainwashed would be a better description I suppose.
And remember the Democrat motto..."never let a crisis go to waste". If we solved our cultural issues....if we were to succeed even while the liberals attacked viciously to undo whatever efforts we were taking to solve it...then how would they gain?

Beto Orourke is right now in El Paso speaking to, I shit you not, what he is calling his "binational nation". He has been dancing on those graves until he must be exhausted by now. They all have.

You are a smart guy. Take a logical, legal approach. Ask yourself Cui Bono? Who benefits? From the time of Cicero this question has helped men of good will tease out the perp.

El Paso is "binational." You did hear that six or seven of the shoppers killed in WalMart were from across the border in Mexico? People are back and forth from both countries all the time.
I live on the border with Canada, and it is the same here. We have shoppers from Canada at our local Walmart all the time and Americans are in St. Stephen just as often. There is an annual International Festival to celebrate the "binational" state of affairs. Somehow, the Candians don't upset us.

No they dont bother us..."somehow". You will want to get cracking on destroying that now. Cant have Americans being comfortable.
Shoppers dont make a nation "binational". If it does then we should ban shoppers. Our president doesnt represent a "bination". He represents the United States.
Any more treason?

But no we arent binational...yet. Your candidates do campaign in Mexico however...dont they?

This is the CDZ. Don't be accusing me of treason for not agreeing with you, please.

Your support of other countries rather than your own makes you a traitor. Your support of candidates who actively campaign on foreign soil and attack Americans on this soil. Your party has *demonstrably* been proven to represent foreigners even to the point of cutting off military pay to advance the interests of foreign nationals. Thats treason.

 

[Mac1958]

And, off the rails we go again.

 

[DOTR]

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

I know there are some who will deny this, but it's pretty clear our culture in general has been in decay for a few generations now.

In reality, the cheapening of lives has been predictable. It's just part of the decay.
.

It hasn't decayed. Its been brutally attacked. But here are the facts...

(1) the second amendment is more than 200 years old
(2) mass shootings are a recent phenomenon
(3)liberal attacks on our society and culture are a recent phenomenon

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

Why restrict people who have never committed a crime?

And a semiautomatic rifle is a semiautomatic rifle no matter what it looks like. And semiautomatic rifles have been produced for civilian use for over 100 years.

Seriously if you were really worried about murder rates you would be calling for banning all handguns. I would still oppose you but it is a better argument than banning rifles

I suppose you're right. Maybe I need to think about including handguns in my ban, but I thought people should have the right to personal protection if it means so much to them.

Sure as long as you are fantasizing about removing one of the Bill of Rights might as well go all the way.

 

[DOTR]

When I was a kid, there were guns all over the place. Eight year old boys got a 22 for their birthday. Family picnics found us out back shooting holes in targets.
We weren't shooting each other so it isn't the guns. It is something else. Let's look for that something else.

Bingo, exactly. Somewhere along the line, life became cheap.
.

Do you think that when innocent babies became a commodity and were executed in or out of the womb, that "life" just wasn't as precious as it was before?

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Human life has been devalued by leftists.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Do you have any idea how easy it is to kill a human being? So easy, in fact that it's a miracle every morning when we wake up. Life is fragile and precious.

Many people who kill in self defense are psychologically scarred for life even though they believed they were acting righteously.

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

I know there are some who will deny this, but it's pretty clear our culture in general has been in decay for a few generations now.

In reality, the cheapening of lives has been predictable. It's just part of the decay.
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It hasn't decayed. Its been brutally attacked. But here are the facts...

(1) the second amendment is more than 200 years old
(2) mass shootings are a recent phenomenon
(3)liberal attacks on our society and culture are a recent phenomenon

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

Why restrict people who have never committed a crime?

And a semiautomatic rifle is a semiautomatic rifle no matter what it looks like. And semiautomatic rifles have been produced for civilian use for over 100 years.

Seriously if you were really worried about murder rates you would be calling for banning all handguns. I would still oppose you but it is a better argument than banning rifles

I suppose you're right. Maybe I need to think about including handguns in my ban, but I thought people should have the right to personal protection if it means so much to them.

Rifles can be used for personal protection too.

You dont understand...she defines what you need for personal protection.

 

[DOTR]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

That's the left's actual agenda, they give no fucks about people in all honesty.

Agreed. A few dead is a small price to pay for them if it advances an agenda.

 

[DOTR]

And, off the rails we go again.

Yeah it wsnt when they said men in dresses were women..or abortion is in the constitution...or men could marry men...or Democrats campaigned in Mexico...or old white people should die off...or you started pushing drag queens on little kids...or claiming illegal border crossings arent a crime...or working with the Chicoms against the President...
No it was when it was pointed out the the Bill of Rights protects gun ownership. Thats definitely when we went off the rails I guess Mac.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

When I was a kid, there were guns all over the place. Eight year old boys got a 22 for their birthday. Family picnics found us out back shooting holes in targets.
We weren't shooting each other so it isn't the guns. It is something else. Let's look for that something else.

Bingo, exactly. Somewhere along the line, life became cheap.
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Good thread topic as usual, Mac. To me, a lot of these things have been clearly seen to anyone paying attention, but threads like these make me doubtful, so, kudos.

Culture? America has never really had one to me. It's mostly a mixed bag borrowed from other cultures due to our diverse demographics. The 'love it or leave it' forced patriotism nonsense coming around again is a sign of the cyclical nature of our politics in society, and we don't seem to be too interested in learning from our own history, much less anyone else's. Moms, baseball and apple pie do really not make a culture, but some seem content with just that.

Americas priorities have always been screwed up to me, even before new mediums of entertainment turned the volume up to 11 (you're welcome). Remember the good old days when a stray nipple at a Super Bowl half time show was enough to bring America's comically puritanical standards to a standstill in our collective outrage? Whether you agreed or disagreed, we talked about it. We discussed the impacts of censorship. Yet, violence always gets a pass. We need to get a handle on why that is, because our time is running out.

In today's America, your 10-year-old can see death and murder on the screen multiple times a day, and that's without adding the option of cable, satellite and internet. Video games are ultra violent too, which may or may not be adding to this unsettling trend of dehumanization manifesting in some of the worst cultural decay I've ever seen in my lifetime. We let children become addicted to drugs early in their development because the challenge of actually raising children has become too hard for some (sometimes drug addicted) parents to cope with. That's a serious fucking problem to have. Even more so unaddressed. The dehumanization and child neglect I see nowadays has been normalized by parents suffering from what I can only assume to be a variant of Munchausen Syndrome. Those kids in cages on the border aren't 'ours', thus they are less than human, and an 'out of sight, out of mind' mentality becomes normalized behavior.

Nothing will change, because at the heart of the issue, we collectively don't want it to change. Pornography still has many stigmas attached to it, yet it's net worth wouldn't be $97 Billion dollars a year if people weren't watching it. We've turned into a nation that worships superficial. Mass shooters know they will get their misguided 'fame' because our media constantly fails and disappoints us in providing anything resembling objective news. They are more concerned with red meat and ad dollars to change at this point.

Privatization and corporate sponsorship is infesting all levels of the government and it's starting to rot. The prisons and damn near every level of the penal system is being replaced with private industry in a nation with the highest incarceration rate in the world. Think about that for one second, because it's fucking terrifying to me. Prison slavery and dehumanization has become a profit bearing business.

When our own government deliberately undervalues human lives, society tends to fall in line until it becomes normalized.

 

[Mac1958]

When I was a kid, there were guns all over the place. Eight year old boys got a 22 for their birthday. Family picnics found us out back shooting holes in targets.
We weren't shooting each other so it isn't the guns. It is something else. Let's look for that something else.

Bingo, exactly. Somewhere along the line, life became cheap.
.

Good thread topic as usual, Mac. To me, a lot of these things have been clearly seen to anyone paying attention, but threads like these make me doubtful, so, kudos.

Culture? America has never really had one to me. It's mostly a mixed bag borrowed from other cultures due to our diverse demographics. The 'love it or leave it' forced patriotism nonsense coming around again is a sign of the cyclical nature of our politics in society, and we don't seem to be too interested in learning from our own history, much less anyone else's. Moms, baseball and apple pie do really not make a culture, but some seem content with just that.

Americas priorities have always been screwed up to me, even before new mediums of entertainment turned the volume up to 11 (you're welcome). Remember the good old days when a stray nipple at a Super Bowl half time show was enough to bring America's comically puritanical standards to a standstill in our collective outrage? Whether you agreed or disagreed, we talked about it. We discussed the impacts of censorship. Yet, violence always gets a pass. We need to get a handle on why that is, because our time is running out.

In today's America, your 10-year-old can see death and murder on the screen multiple times a day, and that's without adding the option of cable, satellite and internet. Video games are ultra violent too, which may or may not be adding to this unsettling trend of dehumanization manifesting in some of the worst cultural decay I've ever seen in my lifetime. We let children become addicted to drugs early in their development because the challenge of actually raising children has become too hard for some (sometimes drug addicted) parents to cope with. That's a serious fucking problem to have. Even more so unaddressed. The dehumanization and child neglect I see nowadays has been normalized by parents suffering from what I can only assume to be a variant of Munchausen Syndrome. Those kids in cages on the border aren't 'ours', thus they are less than human, and an 'out of sight, out of mind' mentality becomes normalized behavior.

Nothing will change, because at the heart of the issue, we collectively don't want it to change. Pornography still has many stigmas attached to it, yet it's net worth wouldn't be $97 Billion dollars a year if people weren't watching it. We've turned into a nation that worships superficial. Mass shooters know they will get their misguided 'fame' because our media constantly fails and disappoints us in providing anything resembling objective news. They are more concerned with red meat and ad dollars to change at this point.

Privatization and corporate sponsorship is infesting all levels of the government and it's starting to rot. The prisons and damn near every level of the penal system is being replaced with private industry in a nation with the highest incarceration rate in the world. Think about that for one second, because it's fucking terrifying to me. Prison slavery and dehumanization has become a profit bearing business.

When our own government deliberately undervalues human lives, society tends to fall in line until it becomes normalized.

Yeah, when I refer to "culture" in this context, I mean the general rules of decency, behavior and standards to which we agree as a "civilized" society. All one has to do is look at our entertainment, our popular culture, and our politics to see a clear decay in our decency, behavior and standards.

Worse, there appears to be little attempt to change this trajectory. Some (as we're seeing on this thread) are perfectly fine with ignoring it. And once a problem becomes ingrained in our society, it becomes almost impossible to eradicate.

So in this context, the devaluing of human life seems to me to be clearly culture-oriented. It's just another example of how our culture is decaying.
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