Why are we being punished for Adam's sin? is it true story?

[Powerman]

"Is Genesis factual? Yes, I find it striking that many of the things God made as a law for the Jews to follow, turns out our science has proven many, if not all, to be quite healthy practices."


Genesis factual? Oh no. This is just getting silly now.

 

[5stringJeff]

Really? Then how do you explain that the story of Noah is essentially a plagerism of the epic of Gilgamesh? Do you really think that Genesis is factual?

Or is the epic of Gilgamesh a plagerism of the story of Noah?

Or do you think that it's a coincedence that almost all primitive civilizations had some type of world-destroying flood story in their culture? Maybe - just maybe - the flood actually occurred, and the descendants of Noah all knew the story, which changed slightly over time in different cultures.

 

[theHawk]

Why would you want to ignore me? I'm always blatantly honest on this forum. Which is much more than we can say for most of the Christians on this board who will spout out lies whenever it supports their agenda.

Maybe because of your angry tone and outright disrespect for Christianity.

I offer factual information, insight, and logic.

I am sure many would beg to differ.

Do I think that religion is silly? Yes. Do I hate Christians? No. Of course not. My problem isn't with the morals or teachings of Christianity. My problem is more with the Bible than anything else. New testament isn't so bad but nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing in the Old Testament should be taken seriously. At least 30% of it is immoral trash.

Thank you for your worthless opinion on the Bible.

I don't understand how everyone thinks I'm some evil person just because I don't believe in the same things as you all. Take any 3rd party person and try to tell them the story of Christianity. They'd look at you like you were crazy if you wanted them to believe all of it. Rightfully so.

So the main difference between me and the Christians here is this:

We all know that the stories in the Bible are hard to believe...

Christians: Yeah it seems like completely impossible bullshit but it's a matter of "faith" so we don't question it.

Me: It really is completely impossible bullshit and anyone who believes in it is falling for the worst prank of all. Why would anyone believe in such nonsense?


That's the big difference. We both see the same stories and probably both think they are silly. Difference is, I don't believe in it. And most of the people that "believe" are really just hedging and playing the odds just in case anyway.

There comes a point in someones life where you have to sit down and seriously ask yourself : "Is there really some invisible creator out there that cares whether or not I masturbate?" My answer to that cosmic question is probably not.

Well congratulations, you don't believe.
Now can you possibly go on with the rest of your life without attacking those that do believe? Or are you really that intolerant?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Now can you possibly go on with the rest of your life without attacking those that do believe? Or are you really than intolerant?

At least now you sort of understand how some people can be annoyed by confrontational evangelicals. It's too bad people aren't willing to let someone make up their own mind, independently.

 

[Said1]

At least now you sort of understand how some people can be annoyed by confrontational evangelicals. It's too bad people aren't willing to let someone make up their own mind, independently.

Wow, talk about re-hashing old threads.

 

[theHawk]

At least now you sort of understand how some people can be annoyed by confrontational evangelicals. It's too bad people aren't willing to let someone make up their own mind, independently.

I wouldn't know I have never been confronted by an evangelical. But if getting 'confronted' by evangelicals is enough to make one lose any shred of respect for other peoples religions such as that demonstrated by Powerman I would think the person has mental issues. Though I would like to know exactly how they are 'confrontational'.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I wouldn't know I have never been confronted by an evangelical. But if getting 'confronted' by evangelicals is enough to make one lose any shred of respect for other peoples religions such as that demonstrated by Powerman I would think the person has mental issues. Though I would like to know exactly how they are 'confrontational'.

What I was referring to was his complete unwillingness to even accept that Christianity is logical as being annoying, the same way a confrontational evangelical who is completely unwilling to accept someone else's alternate way of living life is annoying, not that some confrontational evangelical was some how to blame for Powerman's views on religion.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Or is the epic of Gilgamesh a plagerism of the story of Noah?

Or do you think that it's a coincedence that almost all primitive civilizations had some type of world-destroying flood story in their culture? Maybe - just maybe - the flood actually occurred, and the descendants of Noah all knew the story, which changed slightly over time in different cultures.

Nope, the Epic of Gilgamesh predates the story of Noah. If the flood had occurred, there would be geological evidence to support it. The bottom line is that the evidence for a global flood doesn't exist. If there really was a flood, it's much more likely that it was a localized one. Some scientists think the Black Sea used to be a lake because it has two layers, a salty top layer and a "dead" bottom layer. There is also documented evidence in the geological record that indicate that huge floods can occur when glaciers act as natural dams. When they break, it can unleash tidal waves. I think it's much more likely, since there is absolutely no physical evidence of an ancient, global flood, that flood myths like Noah and Gilgamesh are actually just accounts of localized floods. Afterall, another strike against the accuracy of an ancient global flood myth is that ancient peoples scarcely knew anything even existed outside the areas they were capable of reaching by foot. Minus the Vikings' Nova Scotia discovery, nobody had even discovered the Americas until 1492 so the full extent of the "globe" wasn't even known until very recently in human history. Not to mention the logistics of cramming two of every species on the planet into a 120 foot or what ever it was boat plus the amount of feed for every animal for 40 days. It's pretty ridiculous if you think about it.

 

[Said1]

Not to mention the logistics of cramming two of every species on the planet into a 120 foot or what ever it was boat plus the amount of feed for every animal for 40 days. It's pretty ridiculous if you think about it.

Not really. Any good project manager could get the job done, ahead of time. :

 

[Powerman]

I wouldn't know I have never been confronted by an evangelical. But if getting 'confronted' by evangelicals is enough to make one lose any shred of respect for other peoples religions such as that demonstrated by Powerman I would think the person has mental issues. Though I would like to know exactly how they are 'confrontational'.

Well if screaming in your face and telling you you are going to burn in hell isn't confrontational I don't know what is. I see these idiots on my Campus all the time in free speech alley. It's annoying and ridiculous.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Why not ask questions about that which you are pondering?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not really sure why. :huh: Guess I will have to ponder that one a bit....

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Well if screaming in your face and telling you you are going to burn in hell isn't confrontational I don't know what is. I see these idiots on my Campus all the time in free speech alley. It's annoying and ridiculous.

Hmmmmmm, I have NEVER seen anything remotely close to that. Its difficult to believe someone would scream in your face, maybe you are "baiting" them, or subconsciously intentionally annoying them.

Usually, the treatment a person (In the US anyways) experiences is pretty much what they ask for.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Hmmmmmm, I have NEVER seen anything remotely close to that. Its difficult to believe someone would scream in your face, maybe you are "baiting" them, or subconsciously intentionally annoying them.

Usually, the treatment a person (In the US anyways) experiences is pretty much what they ask for.

"subconsciously intentionally annoying them"

And I have witnessed numerous occasions of someone yelling in either my or someone else's face. Trust me, you're lucky if you haven't had it happen to you.

I do believe it's much more prevalent on college campuses, and I can tell you from personal experience: it happens a lot.

 

[Powerman]

"subconsciously intentionally annoying them"

And I have witnessed numerous occasions of someone yelling in either my or someone else's face. Trust me, you're lucky if you haven't had it happen to you.

I do believe it's much more prevalent on college campuses, and I can tell you from personal experience: it happens a lot.

Exactly. Go to any major college campus and these people show up in free speech alley at least once every other week. And they will scream at you even if you don't acknowledge their presence and walk by them. Apparently you haven't had the luxury of dealing with these lunatics. I should bring my digital camera with me everywhere I go. Then next time I could post a picture for you.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Exactly. Go to any major college campus and these people show up in free speech alley at least once every other week. And they will scream at you even if you don't acknowledge their presence and walk by them. Apparently you haven't had the luxury of dealing with these lunatics. I should bring my digital camera with me everywhere I go. Then next time I could post a picture for you.

At Michigan we had a lot of them, but one, I think his name was Preacher Bob (self-appointed title) was exceptionally offensive and chronic.

Turns out 2 months ago he was convicted of molesting a 12 year old.

Now, both sides, please don't read too deep into that. I'm not making some wide-ranging condemnation of evangelicals as molesters, just amused at the sheer irony that the man who so vehemently proclaimed my hellwardboundedness almost assuredly will beat me there. Perhaps that will end up being my hell; having to listen to him bitch about me going to hell for eternity. That would definitely suck. Especially if I had to listen to him while shoveling snow in 100 degree heat.

 

[Powerman]

Hmmmmmm, I have NEVER seen anything remotely close to that. Its difficult to believe someone would scream in your face, maybe you are "baiting" them, or subconsciously intentionally annoying them.

Usually, the treatment a person (In the US anyways) experiences is pretty much what they ask for.

Let this be a very important lesson. And everyone on this message board including myself should remember this.

Don't ever assume that you know something because of your limited experience with it. You may have never seen one of these people but there are many people who have. They are bigoted intolerant people. If you folks think I'm intolerant then you've never met one of the crazies I'm talking about. These people literally believe that Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, and people of any other faith other than their own are going straight to hell.

 

[theHawk]

Well if screaming in your face and telling you you are going to burn in hell isn't confrontational I don't know what is. I see these idiots on my Campus all the time in free speech alley. It's annoying and ridiculous.

lol that would be quite annoying. Just tell em to fuck off then.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

lol that would be quite annoying. Just tell em to fuck off then.

It seemed like everyone on campus had a unique way of fucking with them.
Gay guys on campus would go kiss each other in front of them, and that was perhaps the most entertaining. You wouldn't believe the shade of red their faces turned.

 

[5stringJeff]

Let this be a very important lesson. And everyone on this message board including myself should remember this.

Don't ever assume that you know something because of your limited experience with it. You may have never seen one of these people but there are many people who have. They are bigoted intolerant people. If you folks think I'm intolerant then you've never met one of the crazies I'm talking about. These people literally believe that Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, and people of any other faith other than their own are going straight to hell.

Given my fairly extensive knowledge and experience with the Christian Church in America, I can tell you that such people are a small minority. They are to the Christian Church what pro-tax-cut politicans are to the Democrat Party.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Given my fairly extensive knowledge and experience with the Christian Church in America, I can tell you that such people are a small minority. They are to the Christian Church what pro-tax-cut politicans are to the Democrat Party.

Absolutely a minority, although they do reach a good portion of the public. They do more to harm non-believers opinions of Christianity than 100 normal Christians working a soup kitchen do good.