Coloradomtnman
Rational and proud of it.
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- #41
Again, you are applying the metaphysical to science to draw your conclusion. Gravity is an observable phenomenon and therefor a very poor comparison. You brought up empiricism then used the scientific lack of the empirical to postulate a conclusion. That goes against every aspect of pure physical science and the scientific method.No, it simply means there is no known evidence of unicorns, again, nothing more, nothing less, anything else is pure supposition. Improbability, as used in your original premise has no basis as we are dealing with the pure application of the scientific method therefore everything is possible/probable until proven (empirically) to be otherwise.I know. I was trying to get him to respond. As for his lack of evidence supports his position claim...... Obviously his exposure to the scientific method is limited at best to make such a claim. Lack of evidence only means there is a lack of evidence, nothing more, nothing less, the wrong questions might be being asked, the tests poorly constructed, all potential variables not recognized, known or included, etc, etc, etc.His point is that he cannot get himself to believe in God without empirical evidence.
His other point appears to me to be that he maintains it is a fact or truth that such evidence does not exist. I would in no way agree that to be a fact or a truth. I think the evidence is legion.
Which raises the question how two equally intelligent beings can be in total disagreement on the evidence. There, I suppose, are all kinds of reasons that may be the case. However, in my opinion more people refuse to believe because of pride or because of a fear of acknowledging God’s reality will make them feel more accountable for their actions or lack of action. Others are for some reason genuinely isolated from being able to comprehend no matter how much they may want to believe.
I suppose most Christians believe because it makes and sense and because they were told by reliable sources of its truthfulness and never questioned it, but gratefully accepted it. Still others, like myself, do not need faith or parental pleadings. The miracles are undeniable, and they are almost exclusively Christian in nature.
Basically there is no empirical evidence supporting or refuting God. If he's looking for it it's not there, the choice is his. essentually he's simply trying to justify his current position, maybe a backhand slap at fundamentalists or Christians in general, or trying to convince others of the "logic" of his claim/position. Heck, maybe all the above.
Lack of evidence can mean that there is only a lack of evidence. However, it can be applied to be lack of existence for something. There is no evidence of unicorns, for example. Does that mean we have not found any evidence for them or does that mean that there probable aren't any unicorns? Based on ALL of the evidence, it seems improbable that there are unicorns. Same with God. It doesn't prove there are no unicorns, and the same for God. Still, it doesn't support believing there are unicorns are God.
By claiming improbability you have entered the realm of "faith".........
Yes, anything is possible. But not anything is probable. In Earth's gravity, drop a rock a trillion times. How many times would it float? Out of a trillion? Not many, if at all. The proposition of a rock floating is improbable. There is no evidence of floating rocks. Therefore believing that rocks float is irrational. Believing that they may float is being an agnostic. The fact that there is no evidence of floating rocks supports the proposition that rocks don't float. It doesn't prove it, but it does support it. Believing in floating rocks despite the lack of definitive proof doesn't make sense.
Based on pure science every unknown is possible/probable until empirically proven otherwise, choosing to "believe" something is impossible/improbable is, as noted in quotes, entirely faith based.
Alright, conceded.
Using the scientific method properly, how does one conclude that God definitively exists? And if one can't, how does one justify believing in God anyway?