Who's responisibility is it?

[daveman]

I'm trying to understand why the "Land of the Free" ignores so many dead children.
What about you?

"While the vast majority of those now writing on collective responsibility in philosophical circles continue to debate the possibility of collective responsibility, a smaller group of scholars has in recent years placed two further—and very important—concerns at the center of our attention.

"The first has to do with whether groups have to meet the same stringent conditions of moral responsibility that individuals do. (Intentionality becomes key here.)

"The second has to do with the advantages and disadvantages of holding particular kinds of groups, e.g., nation states, races, and ethnic groups, morally responsible in practice."

Collective Responsibility (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

I told you: Posting emotional rants on the internet, while perhaps making your feel better about your "crimes", has no actual effect on anything whatsoever.

You prove the usefulness of emotional rants with virtually ever post you make.
What does that have to do with individual and collective responsibility for gun violence in the "Land of the Free?"

What's really "exceptional" about America, Skippy?
The 17 Americans killed by jihadist "terrorists" since 911?
Or the approximately 10,000 gun (pussy) murders Americans inflicted upon each other in 2010?

Gun violence is a national security issue - CNN.com

You might have a point if there was any such think as kollektive responsibility, Comrade.

But there isn't.

 

[Si modo]

We are held hostage by domestic terrorists that the rabid right protects.

What a sad and sick thing it is that those very people, the rabid rw's, are incapable of feeling real emotion, real sorrow for 20 murdered children and the adults who died trying to save them. Instead, all they care about is their guns.

I own guns but I would happily give them up if it could save those lives.

Cool. I have hostages. Now, what would be an appropriate ransom? Hmmmmmm.

Children's lives.

Until life means as much as guns, nothing will change and really, I can't imagine that the rabid rw's will suddenly care more about American children than they do their large capacity clips and semi-auto guns.

You are looking like an idiot.

My gun is a tool to protect my life and sometimes a toy to shoot clay pigeons.

And, somehow that translates to meaning I want dead kids.

I had no idea you are brain damaged. I'm sorry for your handicap.

 

[daveman]

I told you: Posting emotional rants on the internet, while perhaps making your feel better about your "crimes", has no actual effect on anything whatsoever.

You prove the usefulness of emotional rants with virtually ever post you make.
What does that have to do with individual and collective responsibility for gun violence in the "Land of the Free?"

What's really "exceptional" about America, Skippy?
The 17 Americans killed by jihadist "terrorists" since 911?
Or the approximately 10,000 gun (pussy) murders Americans inflicted upon each other in 2010?

Gun violence is a national security issue - CNN.com

We are held hostage by domestic terrorists that the rabid right protects.

What a sad and sick thing it is that those very people, the rabid rw's, are incapable of feeling real emotion, real sorrow for 20 murdered children and the adults who died trying to save them. Instead, all they care about is their guns.

I own guns but I would happily give them up if it could save those lives.

You don't give a shit about the children. You're happily standing in their blood to further your agenda.

Eat shit.

 

[daveman]

We are held hostage by domestic terrorists that the rabid right protects.

What a sad and sick thing it is that those very people, the rabid rw's, are incapable of feeling real emotion, real sorrow for 20 murdered children and the adults who died trying to save them. Instead, all they care about is their guns.

I own guns but I would happily give them up if it could save those lives.

Cool. I have hostages. Now, what would be an appropriate ransom? Hmmmmmm.

Children's lives.

Until life means as much as guns, nothing will change and really, I can't imagine that the rabid rw's will suddenly care more about American children than they do their large capacity clips and semi-auto guns.

You wouldn't be such a flaming hypocrite if you didn't support abortion on demand.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Just as acts of terror are addressed by society, continuous acts of terror with guns are the responsibility of the society that allows them to repeat themselves ad infinitum. If a plane crashed daily the wackos who think the 2nd amendment is about freedom to murder would be up in arms. They'd blame someone for surely it would be someone else's fault. Those who feel the need to be armed to the teeth are the weak and cowardly and this woman was another prepper according to an article today. Another nutcase loony with a sick son. Great combination.

"The tragedy isn’t one school shooting, it’s the unceasing toll across our country. More Americans die in gun homicides and suicides in six months than have died in the last 25 years in every terrorist attack and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq combined."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opinion/sunday/kristof-do-we-have-the-courage-to-stop-this.html

And what others do:

"Other countries offer a road map. In Australia in 1996, a mass killing of 35 people galvanized the nation’s conservative prime minister to ban certain rapid-fire long guns. The “national firearms agreement,” as it was known, led to the buyback of 650,000 guns and to tighter rules for licensing and safe storage of those remaining in public hands.

The law did not end gun ownership in Australia. It reduced the number of firearms in private hands by one-fifth, and they were the kinds most likely to be used in mass shootings.

In the 18 years before the law, Australia suffered 13 mass shootings — but not one in the 14 years after the law took full effect. The murder rate with firearms has dropped by more than 40 percent, according to data compiled by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, and the suicide rate with firearms has dropped by more than half.

Or we can look north to Canada. It now requires a 28-day waiting period to buy a handgun, and it imposes a clever safeguard: gun buyers should have the support of two people vouching for them."

quotes from link above.


http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/267838-fuck-you-guns-9.html#post6508046

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/267838-fuck-you-guns-3.html#post6502919

The United States does not ave the courage to make real changes. The right, the NRA is controlled by big money and really, that's all that matters. That trumps all rights of all people in the US. And, it definitely trumps the right of those 20 babied to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Go smoke some more weed and take a nap.. nobody gives a fuck.

 

[Si modo]

Luddly, you are lashing out at those who did nothing to deserve it....just like the shooter did.

You should be proud.

 

[Dreamy]

If this same deranged man had used his vehicle to mow down and kill these same children and adults on the school playground or on the soccer field what would the discussion be today? Would you be blaming the "weapon"?

 

[Si modo]

If this same deranged man had used his vehicle to mow down and kill these same children and adults on the school playground or on the soccer field what would the discussion be today? Would you be blaming the "weapon"?

Exactly. The evil bastard is the only one to blame for this.

And, if we had a way to identify who the evil bastards are, maybe we could do something about that....sounds rather Orwellian, though. Like Minority Report.

 

[syrenn]

We are held hostage by domestic terrorists that the rabid right protects.

What a sad and sick thing it is that those very people, the rabid rw's, are incapable of feeling real emotion, real sorrow for 20 murdered children and the adults who died trying to save them. Instead, all they care about is their guns.

I own guns but I would happily give them up if it could save those lives.

As to being held hostage.... we can also argue we are held hostage by the rabid left.


The way i see it, if any one of the teachers had been armed.... they may have fared a bit better and the carnage less.

No one expects a soft target.... to shoot back. Sorta throws a wrench in the gears. From what i understand the school nurse would have had a damn fine chance of taking him out in the back of the head. He walked into her office where she was under the desk watching him out of the port in the back. He came in... turned around and left.

If she had been armed....that could have been a pretty clean shot.

Really, you own guns.... feel free to give them up now if you feel it will help. Obviously, gun control and citizens owning them meant nothing to you before.....and if you dont turn them in now... it still meas nothing to you but a political talking point of faux rage.

Guns are woven into the fabric of America so tightly it would be national suicide to ask civilians to give up their firearms. What about banning the sale of semi-automatic handguns and high-capacity magazines?

only if having one... carries a life sentence without the possibility of parole. Period. End of story.

Criminals will always have such weapons..... why should civilians be less well armed?

 

[syrenn]

You prove the usefulness of emotional rants with virtually ever post you make.
What does that have to do with individual and collective responsibility for gun violence in the "Land of the Free?"

What's really "exceptional" about America, Skippy?
The 17 Americans killed by jihadist "terrorists" since 911?
Or the approximately 10,000 gun (pussy) murders Americans inflicted upon each other in 2010?

Gun violence is a national security issue - CNN.com

We are held hostage by domestic terrorists that the rabid right protects.

What a sad and sick thing it is that those very people, the rabid rw's, are incapable of feeling real emotion, real sorrow for 20 murdered children and the adults who died trying to save them. Instead, all they care about is their guns.

I own guns but I would happily give them up if it could save those lives.

You don't give a shit about the children. You're happily standing in their blood to further your agenda.

Eat shit.

hey, he owns a gun. So according to him... he is holding on to HIS guns just as tightly as his "rabid right"

I would say give it up or shut up.

 

[syrenn]

Luddly, you are lashing out at those who did nothing to deserve it....just like the shooter did.

You should be proud.

pull....



and score!

 

[Dreamy]

If this same deranged man had used his vehicle to mow down and kill these same children and adults on the school playground or on the soccer field what would the discussion be today? Would you be blaming the "weapon"?

Exactly. The evil bastard is the only one to blame for this.

And, if we had a way to identify who the evil bastards are, maybe we could do something about that....sounds rather Orwellian, though. Like Minority Report.

Yup. I know for me personally I am more interested in finding out why this happened. What made a 20 year old boy decide to kill his mother and the people at the school.

To blame a weapons alone for a killing or killings and not even consider that we might have something sinister in our midst that is breeding these types of killers is thinking with blinders on. Where is society failing? Where are parents failing? Where is the mental health world failing? Are insurance companies at fault? Are pharmaceutical companies playing a role? Video games? I am not claiming to know. I do know I have more questions than answers. I also believe that those who want to focus on just the legal weapons used in these killings seem to be mostly interested in tossing that old controversial "gun reform" political football around than actually seeking the truth and cause of what happened last Friday.

 

[georgephillip]

We're talking about guns, not kollektivism or sexual assault, Zippy.

We're talking about responsibility, individually and collectively, for gun violence, Pussy.
How many more children will die at the hands of other gun pussies before you catch up?

I haven't shot any children.

Therefore, I am not responsible for any children's deaths.

Period.

Kollektive responsibility is bullshit. No wonder you think it's grand.

"Collective responsibility is a concept or doctrine, according to which individuals are to be held responsible for other people's actions by tolerating, ignoring, or harboring them, without actively collaborating in these actions."

In fact, you have not only tolerated, ignored, harbored and abetted those who shoot children, you've "actively collaborated" by taking money in furtherance of their actions.

No wonder you're in denial.

Collective responsibility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[syrenn]

We're talking about responsibility, individually and collectively, for gun violence, Pussy.
How many more children will die at the hands of other gun pussies before you catch up?

I haven't shot any children.

Therefore, I am not responsible for any children's deaths.

Period.

Kollektive responsibility is bullshit. No wonder you think it's grand.

"Collective responsibility is a concept or doctrine, according to which individuals are to be held responsible for other people's actions by tolerating, ignoring, or harboring them, without actively collaborating in these actions."

In fact, you have not only tolerated, ignored, harbored and abetted those who shoot children, you've "actively collaborated" by taking money in furtherance of their actions.

No wonder you're in denial.

Collective responsibility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

damn... you can use that argument for some good shit.

 

[georgephillip]

I told you: Posting emotional rants on the internet, while perhaps making your feel better about your "crimes", has no actual effect on anything whatsoever.

You prove the usefulness of emotional rants with virtually ever post you make.
What does that have to do with individual and collective responsibility for gun violence in the "Land of the Free?"

What's really "exceptional" about America, Skippy?
The 17 Americans killed by jihadist "terrorists" since 911?
Or the approximately 10,000 gun (pussy) murders Americans inflicted upon each other in 2010?

Gun violence is a national security issue - CNN.com

You might have a point if there was any such think as kollektive responsibility, Comrade.

But there isn't.

But there is, Killer.

Assuming you believe collectives (like the USAF) exist, so do formal arrangements for addressing the "harm and wrongdoing" they commit:

"Collective moral responsibility refers to arrangements appropriate for addressing widespread harm and wrongdoing associated with the actions of groups.

"The key components of the basic notion of moral responsibility are deeply rooted in the fabric of every society and are constitutive of social life.

"Without some conception of moral responsibility no amount of imaginative insight will render a society recognizable as a human society.

"While there is broad, often tacit, agreement regarding the basic model of moral responsibility as it applies to individuals; there is considerable debate about how this notion might be applied to groups and their members."

Moral Responsibility, Collective [Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]

 

[Katzndogz]

The agenda of the left is MORE dead children. Millions of dead children. They only want to be able to choose which should live and which should die. In the Connecticut tragedy the rights of the insane to be insane far outweigh the rights of these children to live. Adam Lanza would have been taken out by one person with a gun. Likely if Lanza was familiar with the school and knew that he would be facing off with someone able to fight back, it wouldn't have happened at all. The whole thing would have been prevented. He was crazy, not stupid. He didn't attack a gun shop, or go down to the range and try his bullshit. He went to someplace he knew would be defenseless.

 

[georgephillip]

If this same deranged man had used his vehicle to mow down and kill these same children and adults on the school playground or on the soccer field what would the discussion be today? Would you be blaming the "weapon"?

Exactly. The evil bastard is the only one to blame for this.

And, if we had a way to identify who the evil bastards are, maybe we could do something about that....sounds rather Orwellian, though. Like Minority Report.

Yup. I know for me personally I am more interested in finding out why this happened. What made a 20 year old boy decide to kill his mother and the people at the school.

To blame a weapons alone for a killing or killings and not even consider that we might have something sinister in our midst that is breeding these types of killers is thinking with blinders on. Where is society failing? Where are parents failing? Where is the mental health world failing? Are insurance companies at fault? Are pharmaceutical companies playing a role? Video games? I am not claiming to know. I do know I have more questions than answers. I also believe that those who want to focus on just the legal weapons used in these killings seem to be mostly interested in tossing that old controversial "gun reform" political football around than actually seeking the truth and cause of what happened last Friday.

Be careful what questions you ask; you may not like all the answers:

"The Sandy Hook massacre isn’t just about the need for gun control laws, it is about a culture that condones the killing of children and teaches children that killing is okay.

"It is about a country addicted to violence on television and movie screens.

"It is about cuts in education spending.

"It is about giving the military free access to our schools where they regale our children with romanticized delusions of military righteousness.

"It is about environmental and health policies that expose our children to all manner of toxins in the air, land and water.

"It is about thinking we have the right to kill children with drones or by dropping toxic munitions on their countries that cause birth defects and miscarriages.

"It is about saddling our children with crippling education debt and no prospect for jobs.

"It is about telling boys (and men) they have to be tough and to fight and kill for what they want or think is right."

A Culture That Condones The Killing Of Children And Teaches Children To Kill | Common Dreams