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At the time yes.Malone underrated?
3 time NBA MVP
13 Time All star
Looks like he got his recognition..
Same could be said for Elgin.
If you're referring to the Suns finals, he passed to John Paxson.Almost impossible to compare eras? I think Jordan and Kobe would have dominated in today's era's don't you? How about the person you believe is the most under rated. Would they have been able to hang today? LOL.
What does it mean that Jordan rose up in the biggest games? Jordan, in the biggest moments, said give me the ball. Once he passed to Steve Kerr.
Lebron has more game-winners than Jordan.But most of the time, Jordan had the ball when the game was on the line. Lebron passes or defers to other team mates.
You sound like a cult member.I see it with my own eyes so you can't tell me I'm wrong.
Jordan lost plenty of times in the playoffs.Did his team win? Jordan's did. That's what matters most.
Losing in the finals is worse than losing in the 1st rd to these cultists.If you're referring to the Suns finals, he passed to John Paxson.
Lebron has more game-winners than Jordan.
Also, making the right play in basketball is often drawing the defense to give another player an in-rhythm shot. Jordan missed plenty of end-game shots. You only remember the ones he made because ESPN indoctrinated you.
You sound like a cult member.
Jordan lost plenty of times in the playoffs.
84-85 Lost 1-3 to Milwaukee in 1st round
85-86 swept by Boston in 1st round
86-87 swept by Boston in 1st round
87-88 Lost 1-4 to Pistons in Conf Semis
88-89 Lost 2-4 to Pistons in ECF
89-90 Lost 3-4 to Pistons in ECF
94-95 Lost 2-4 to Orlando in Conf Semis
That's 7 times Jordan was in the playoffs and lost. Where was his mythological "will to win" then?
All of this is near-religious zealotry... it's as if you're describing a mythical figure. It's impossible to take seriously.
I never said Lebron is better. I said I'll use Lebron to poke holes in your radical stance that Jordan is the unquestioned GOAT.
Remember, the discussion of the GOAT starts that nobody is, and you have to make the case for who is. I largely think that it's dishonest to declare one player the NBA GOAT given the differences in eras and the multiple all-time great players. You're the one peddling a absolute. All I'm doing is shredding it. Meanwhile, you've offered minimal to no actual reasons for why MJ should be considered the GOAT beyond simple mythical platitudes. It's kind of embarrassing, a bad look for you.
I already covered this. Lebron's Heat beat a dynasty all-time great San Antonio Spurs team in the finals. Those Spurs are significantly better than any team Jordan's bulls beat.
Meanwhile, Draymond Green's kicking of someone in the crotch, his own fault, does not mean Golden State automatically wins if he plays. Talk about reaching. Green was all over the place that series, he'd do nothing one game and have a good game the next. Making such a bold statement about the 3rd best player on a team is desperation, which you seem to have plenty of.
3 of Lebron's 4 NBA finals wins are against teams far better than any team Jordan's Bulls beat.
I made multiple points that act against Jordan that you ignored, and then went back into religious zealotry mode. You're a Jordan disciple. You make mythical claims about the man, as if Nike/ESPN programmed you.
The thing is, you're the one on the hook. I acknowledge MJ's greatness, and could make an argument for why he could be the GOAT. However, I could do the same for many other players. You're the angry one defending one player. You're the one with the blinders on.
He has more game winners because he played 20 years.If you're referring to the Suns finals, he passed to John Paxson.
Lebron has more game-winners than Jordan.
Also, making the right play in basketball is often drawing the defense to give another player an in-rhythm shot. Jordan missed plenty of end-game shots. You only remember the ones he made because ESPN indoctrinated you.
You sound like a cult member.
Jordan lost plenty of times in the playoffs.
84-85 Lost 1-3 to Milwaukee in 1st round
85-86 swept by Boston in 1st round
86-87 swept by Boston in 1st round
87-88 Lost 1-4 to Pistons in Conf Semis
88-89 Lost 2-4 to Pistons in ECF
89-90 Lost 3-4 to Pistons in ECF
94-95 Lost 2-4 to Orlando in Conf Semis
That's 7 times Jordan was in the playoffs and lost. Where was his mythological "will to win" then?
Underrated?In no particular order
1. Moses Malone
3 time NBA MVP
13 Time All star
4 time all NBA first team
6 time rebounding leader
1 NBA championship
1 NBA Finals MVP
11th all time scoring leader
Top Scoring Averages: 31.1, 27.8, 25.8, 24.8
Top Rebounding Averages: 15.3, 14.8, 14.7, 14.5
Career Playoff Average: 22.1ppg, 13.8rpg
2. Elgin Baylor
All NBA First team 10 times
Rookie of the year in 1958-59
11 time all star
Finished 2nd in MVP one year, 3rd in MVP 3 times
This guy doesn't have the "leads the league" stats (he played in the era of Wilt), but is a total beast. Look at his first 5 years in the league
1958-59: 24.9 ppg, 15 rpg, 4.3 apg
1959-60: 29.6 ppg, 16.4 rpg, 3.5 apg
1960-61: 34.8 ppg, 19.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
1961-62: 38.3 ppg, 18.6 rpg, 4.6 apg
1962-63: 34.0 ppg, 14.3 rpg, 4.6 apg
Throughout the 60's afterwards he had points per game scores of: 25.4, 27.1, 16.6, 26.6, 26.0, 24.8, and 24.0
Rebounds of: 12.0, 12.8, 9.6, 12.8, 12.2, 10.6, 10.4
Take your stars from today and have them play under the same rules and officiating from the "Pre-Jordan rules" days.No they wouldn't. They were too small, too slow and too weak. They would get run off the court. It's truly amazing how nostalgia clouds people's perspective.
Wasn't he a Knick? He didn't get it done did he?Underrated?
No.
View attachment 934499
Here's underrated.
You had to watch to understand his impact.
Correct he's still a top 10 player in the league in his 21st year. He's literally been a top 10 player for 2 decades. The NBA in it's current form (merger in 76 with the ABA) has only existed for 48 years. Which means James was the best player in the world for a quarter of that existence and a top 10 player for almost half. It's arguable that James was the best player in the world for longer than Jordan was even in the league.Yes, Jordan's mark on the game was almost mythical. You couldn't write a better story. TWO 3PEATS? Come on man! I hated him. I rooted against him all 6 times. He broke my heart all 6 times.
I was watching Lebron the other day. Still blowing by young guys. What a stud he is. I can't believe we get to witness the Babe Ruth of Basketball. Lebron is amazing STILL.
That's not what he said. He said 3 of the 4 teams LeBron beat in the finals were better than any of the teams Jordan beat in the finals.No the teams Lebron beat were not better than the Jordan Bulls. They were as good as Hakeem Alajuans Rockets. Remember, they won 2 when Jordan took a break but you never heard from them again when he came back.
And? That proves how good the Spurs were not that the Heat was bad. That Spurs team had Duncan (HOFer) Parker (HOFer) Ginobelli (HOF'er) and Leonard (HOFer). So 4 of their 5 starters are HOF caliber players. Can you name the team Jordan beat in the finals that had 4 HOFer's in their starting line up?Congrats Lebron, Bosh and Wade for beating the Spurs in 7. The next year the Spurs embarrassed them 4-1.
The next year Lebron got spanked by Golden State in the finals. And the only reason he and Kyrie won was Green got suspended for games 5 and 6. No way Lebron would have come back from being down 3 to 1 if Green was playing.
Lebron has done enough winning for him to be A2. Jordan is A1. Lebron gets more credit than Kevin Durant. He's great too but he had to go to the Warriors to win 2 rings.
Listen, I have to be a dick and try very hard to argue with you because Lebron is so fucking Amazing. Sorry but it comes down to the intangables. I know you don't understand that because you're not an athlete. They say boxing is mostly mental. Not physical. If you think you own your opponent, you will.
Take your stars from today and have them play under the same rules and officiating from the "Pre-Jordan rules" days.
Back when you nearly had to draw blood or break an arm to get a foul call.
No three point line
God I would love to be able to show you that the Bulls would have killed the Warriors and Spurs.Correct he's still a top 10 player in the league in his 21st year. He's literally been a top 10 player for 2 decades. The NBA in it's current form (merger in 76 with the ABA) has only existed for 48 years. Which means James was the best player in the world for a quarter of that existence and a top 10 player for almost half. It's arguable that James was the best player in the world for longer than Jordan was even in the league.
That's not what he said. He said 3 of the 4 teams LeBron beat in the finals were better than any of the teams Jordan beat in the finals.
2 of them are all time great dynasties. GS and Spurs.
And? That proves how good the Spurs were not that the Heat was bad. That Spurs team had Duncan (HOFer) Parker (HOFer) Ginobelli (HOF'er) and Leonard (HOFer). So 4 of their 5 starters are HOF caliber players. Can you name the team Jordan beat in the finals that had 4 HOFer's in their starting line up?
What was the Heat's record that year? Same roster just minus James.....
Knicks and Heat.Wasn't he a Knick? He didn't get it done did he?
NFL Middle linebacker?So Lebron James who is basically an NFL middle linebacker playing point/forward and is faster and can jump higher than all those guys isnt going to thrive in those conditions? Really? James is more than an inch taller and 30 lbs heavier than Rambis. That foul on Rambis hits James in the waist not the head. Like I said nostalgia is a powerful drug.
BTW the 3 point line existed in your clip.
NFL Middle linebacker?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Zion lost a lot of weight and still got hurt. Like that Bruce Willis movie where Sam L Jackson was brittle.NBA? Been out of it for a long long time. They only play a little bit when the playoffs roll around. The regular season is a joke for most. They don't care enough to even try anymore.
Zion laying down again I heard? Always "hurt" like retard Anthony Davis or Kwaie. Then theres' the harden Karie types. Overated types like Paul or George....huh, missing Ringo.
Unless I see a path to gamble....I will not watch much. Maybe watch Miami or Denver? OR only tune in late 4th quarter of an elimination game to see if they earn my valued viewership.
I didn't say LBJ would struggle.Yes dum dum. LeBron James is built like an NFL MLB. Maybe closer to a big TE but you get the point. The league changed the foul calling rules, the players adapted which lead to the flopping. The NBA then adjusted those rules which has subsequently lead to less flopping. That has nothing to do with the fact that James is 6'9" 250 and players who played his position in the 80's and 90's were much smaller. Nor does it change that fact that he's faster, is more explosive and can jump higher than players at his position from the 80s and 90s.
Would players like Aaron Donald, Micah Parsons or the Watt brothers struggled in the 70's NFL? Of course not. The rules were wildly different then to now. It was a much more violent game but they would have been just fine.
The reduction in physicality in the NBA has likely extended the careers of players like James or Curry but it didn't change their ability to play at a high level or mean that they couldn't play in that era. The idea that a person who is bigger, faster and stronger than basically anyone who's ever played his position before would have his game diminished because the game is MORE physical. That doesn't make any logical sense.
I didn't say LBJ would struggle.
I said the rules were different and the pussiness that arrived in the mid-90s would not serve well in the 60s-70s even 80s.
Can you imagine Pete Marivich or Oscar Robertson with a three point line?
Wilt with the fouls they call today? SHEEEEEEEEIT, the Lakers/Warriors would be playing against 3
man teams by the 4th quarter.
Without 3s are guys taking 35 shots from 25 feet or more in every game?
NO
Which packs the lane and renders James' size and strength much less valuable than the 1/1 today.
1970, 4 guys want to stand around 25 feet from the basket, let them.
How's LBJ's rebounding vs Malone?This is all just nonsense.
Can we agree that athletes today are bigger, faster, stronger, more explosive, better trained, better nutrition, have more endurance etc etc. In other words they are more athletically, and physically fit/gifted than athletes in the 60's and 70's? That's just an objective fact is it not? Can we also agree that the competition is greater for the player slots now than in the 60's and 70's? The NBA is now a global sport, there's a huge monetary incentive for people to be good at basketball now and not so much then. The infrastructure to find and nurture those athletes exists in the the US, Europe and Asia now where as in the 60's and 70's it didn't? So there are far more people competing for the roster spots now than ever before. Logically the greater my pool of talent is the greater chance of me getting more talented people into more slots exists. There are only 2 more teams now than there were in 75 and exponentially more people vying for those roster spots.
Given all that you believe that if we took players from today and could transport them back in time to the 1970's that they wouldnt survive? What exactly is that based on other than some bullshit "pussiness" factor you believe exists today?
How does the lane being packed make James' size less valuable? If anything the lack of jump shooting makes his size and strength more valuable. James is bigger than half the best centers from the 70's and moves better than most of the point guards.
Moses Malone was 6'10" 215
Macadoo 6-9 210
Walton 6-11 210
Even Russell was only 6-10 215.
LeBron is 6-9 250.
James doesnt play Center you dolt.How's LBJ's rebounding vs Malone?
7.5 vs 12.3
Hmmm...seems the hard work isn't in LBJ's repertoire.
How about Shaq? With that body he should have been putting up wilt numbers.
He couldn't even match Malone.
Ok. James and most players today would be fine in that era with those rules. The same can’t be said of most players from then doing the same.Bring them here or send them there
They got to play in the conditions and rules of the time.
