Who believes in the OT?

[Mr.Conley]

Mutations accumulate in the genome over time. The original people were flawless.

Completely flawless?

 

[Nienna]

Completely flawless?

Yup. When God declares something is "good," He ain't messing around.

 

[Nienna]

This is what really confuses me. Are you saying that the “10 Commandments” no longer apply? What about all of the other instructions? Do they matter? What rules are Christians to follow? It seems like a convenient out for so-called Christians. Okay. So we don’t need to be guided by the Old Testament, but we should still follow the each sentence of advice given in the New Testament – right?

God gave people the Law bc their hearts were hard. People kept pushing the limits, so the list kept growing and growing. This is the main commandment: to love the LORD with allour hearts, minds, souls, and strength, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. But people kept asking, "what about this?" "How about HERE?" Thus the picky long list.

 

[Joz]

God gave people the Law bc their hearts were hard. People kept pushing the limits, so the list kept growing and growing. This is the main commandment: to love the LORD with allour hearts, minds, souls, and strength, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. But people kept asking, "what about this?" "How about HERE?" Thus the picky long list.

Not only that, they had been in bondage in Egypt. They were probably more Egyptian than some Egyptians!
God had His hands full trying to teach His people how they were to be.

 

[dilloduck]

Not only that, they had been in bondage in Egypt. They were probably more Egyptian than some Egyptians!
God had His hands full trying to teach His people how they were to be.

Hebrew rabbis and priests ran the law offices in the old testament. Jesus advised people to follow new law. The OT merely consists of Jewish history,religious law, prophecy and anecdotal stories of those that preceded Jesus. It's the primary reason that people who are ignorant of the Bible thinks it contradicts itself. It is the combination of two different religions. Judaism and Christianity. Judaism and Christianty disagree on many spiritual matters most importantly being the fact that Judaism denies that Jesus is divine. I think thats why RWA has a hard time understanding Christians who support a group of people who adamantly claim that Jesus is not divine.

 

[Nienna]

Hebrew rabbis and priests ran the law offices in the old testament. Jesus advised people to follow new law. The OT merely consists of Jewish history,religious law, prophecy and anecdotal stories of those that preceded Jesus. It's the primary reason that people who are ignorant of the Bible thinks it contradicts itself. It is the combination of two different religions. Judaism and Christianity. Judaism and Christianty disagree on many spiritual matters most importantly being the fact that Judaism denies that Jesus is divine. I think thats why RWA has a hard time understanding Christians who support a group of people who adamantly claim that Jesus is not divine.

Modern Judaism denies this, but Judaism at the time of the OT contained no spiritual contradictions to Christianity.

As for Christians supporting Jews... I support a Jew's right to believe as he wishes. Jews should be allowed to live peacefully without harrassment, especially from Christians. Christians should make it their business not to harrass ANYONE. However, Jewish people should allow Christians/others this same freedom.

 

[dilloduck]

Modern Judaism denies this, but Judaism at the time of the OT contained no spiritual contradictions to Christianity.

As for Christians supporting Jews... I support a Jew's right to believe as he wishes. Jews should be allowed to live peacefully without harrassment, especially from Christians. Christians should make it their business not to harrass ANYONE. However, Jewish people should allow Christians/others this same freedom.

There WAS no Christianity at the time of the OT.

 

[Nienna]

There WAS no Christianity at the time of the OT.

Yes there was. Christianity is belief in the Annointed One. The ancient Jews knew He was coming, that He was promised by the One True God. Christianity just hadn't been FULFILLED at that time.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes there was. Christianity is belief in the Annointed One. The ancient Jews knew He was coming, that He was promised by the One True God. Christianity just hadn't been FULFILLED at that time.

Christianity is the belief that Jesus is the annointed one.

 

[Nienna]

Christianity is the belief that Jesus is the annointed one.

True. God's Annointed One. And God's faithfulness to the ancient Jews is what preserved the knowledge of Himself so that we could understand the fulfillment of Christianity. Judaism and Christianity were the same until the point where the Messiah came. From that point, they split.

 

[dilloduck]

True. God's Annointed One. And God's faithfulness to the ancient Jews is what preserved the knowledge of Himself so that we could understand the fulfillment of Christianity. Judaism and Christianity were the same until the point where the Messiah came. From that point, they split.

Are you claiming Christianity to be as old as Judaism ?

 

[Nienna]

Are you claiming Christianity to be as old as Judaism ?

I'm claiming that Christianity is a continuation of ancient Judaism.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm claiming that Christianity is a continuation of ancient Judaism.

Jesus rejected many jewish beliefs. I would called that more of a replacement than a continuation. Fundemental to modern Judaism is the fact that Christ was not the annointed one. Christ is new. Not a leftover from ancient pagan rituals.

 

[Nienna]

Jesus rejected many jewish beliefs. I would called that more of a replacement than a continuation. Fundemental to modern Judaism is the fact that Christ was not the annointed one. Christ is new. Not a leftover from ancient pagan rituals.

Which beliefs did Jesus reject?

Christ's APPEARANCE was new; the belief in the Christ was held all along.

 

[dilloduck]

Which beliefs did Jesus reject?

Christ's APPEARANCE was new; the belief in the Christ was held all along.

"An eye for an eye" for one.
He mocked all the Jewish leaders of the day. The belief in a coming messiah is STILL present. He took the Jewish tradition of passover and changed the reason for having it.

 

[Joz]

He took the Jewish tradition of passover and changed the reason for having it.

Christ couldn't change the reason for Passover. Passover was/is a celebration of the Angel of Death passing over the ones who placed blood on the door posts when the Israelites were in Egypt.

 

[Nienna]

"An eye for an eye" for one.
He mocked all the Jewish leaders of the day. The belief in a coming messiah is STILL present. He took the Jewish tradition of passover and changed the reason for having it.

You will find passages in the OT that go something like this: "I do not desire your burnt offerings; I desire mercy. I do not want your sacrifices; I want your hearts." All the old laws/rules were given to a hard-hearted people because they refused to act in love. So God showed them what was "fair." But He ALWAYS desired for them to go beyond "fair" to love and mercy.

Jesus mocked the Jewish leaders of His time precisely bc of this. They read the scriptures, and they made sure they followed the laws, but their hearts were not loving or merciful. He mocked them not bc he was rejecting Judaism, but bc they never understood what it truly meant to worship the LORD.

The Jewish tradition of Passover, and the Exodus itself, were foreshadowing of the great event to come, in which Jesus, the Passover lamb was sacrificed, and those who were covered by His/its blood were spared. Passover was not changed; it was fulfilled.

Modern Jews have rejected their own faith, rejected the Messiah that was sent (first) to them. This does not change the fact that the Messiah WAS sent, and that God preserved this knowledge/hope through the ancient Jews.

 

[dilloduck]

You will find passages in the OT that go something like this: "I do not desire your burnt offerings; I desire mercy. I do not want your sacrifices; I want your hearts." All the old laws/rules were given to a hard-hearted people because they refused to act in love. So God showed them what was "fair." But He ALWAYS desired for them to go beyond "fair" to love and mercy.

Jesus mocked the Jewish leaders of His time precisely bc of this. They read the scriptures, and they made sure they followed the laws, but their hearts were not loving or merciful. He mocked them not bc he was rejecting Judaism, but bc they never understood what it truly meant to worship the LORD.

The Jewish tradition of Passover, and the Exodus itself, were foreshadowing of the great event to come, in which Jesus, the Passover lamb was sacrificed, and those who were covered by His/its blood were spared. Passover was not changed; it was fulfilled.

Modern Jews have rejected their own faith, rejected the Messiah that was sent (first) to them. This does not change the fact that the Messiah WAS sent, and that God preserved this knowledge/hope through the ancient Jews.

The OT has a totally different meaning to Christians as it does to Jews. When Christians try to incorporate Jewish "meaning" of the OT to Christianity there is confusion.

 

[Nienna]

The OT has a totally different meaning to Christians as it does to Jews. When Christians try to incorporate Jewish "meaning" of the OT to Christianity there is confusion.

OK.

 

[liberalogic]

Why doesn't God interact with us as much as he did in ancient times? Surely, the human race is much more violent than it was back then.

Also, how do we know people didn't screw around in their interpretations of the Bible? It wasn't written by God, it was written by the fallible human being.