Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[rylah]

When I "acknowledged" that the ISM "cooperates with Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine," I was offering concrete examples of the ways in which these groups were engaging in nonviolent resistance.

Both the ISM and the Palestine Solidarity Movement advocate nonviolent resistance to Israel's human rights abuses -- the ISM through organized action in the occupied territories and the PSM by promoting international divestment from companies that profit from occupation.

HUWAIDA ARRAF

Washington

Allowing a Mideast Conference at Georgetown

Did she just use "nonviolent" and "Hamas" in the same sentence??
And then compared it to BDS?
Game over for this one sick puppy.

 

[rylah]

Barghouti's BDS Kumbaya in the NYT

Barghouti is arguing that this is not a problem, because the new state would give equal rights to all and Jews would not have to worry about being persecuted as a minority under the benevolent Palestinian Arab leadership that would be democratically elected.

These assumptions are not spelled out explicitly, but they are hiding behind the soothing phrases "human rights" and "equality" and "democracy" and "non-violence."

Let's talk about these concepts and how well they would apply to a single state.

Human rights - in Egypt, Copts are second-class citizens by any definition. I just posted about an Egyptian TV show where the way to insult Islamists was by saying that they are even worse than Christians and Jews.

Similarly, Palestinians are second-class citizens in Jordan, fearful of losing their citizenship. They are treated like dirt in Lebanon. Kurds are reviled throughout the Arab world.

We don't even need to speak about human rights in Syria or Iraq or Yemen.

Even within the Palestinian Authority, Hamas and Fatah are still at loggerheads, and they had a civil war not too long ago. Journalists are threatened. Christians are intimidated.

The only place in the Middle East with decent human rights for all its citizens is Israel. It isn't perfect, but it is a far sight better than in any Arab country. But Barghouti is trying to fool the West into thinking that Arabs will certainly grant equal rights to Jews when they cannot even grant Arab minorities a modicum of right.

 

[Shusha]

Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?

The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land.

Private security guards are not "troops".

And who do you think the real targets were? He was trying to hide the weapon and get in to the town. He only fired at the security guards and the one border police officer when they became suspicious of him.

Of course, he is a terrorist.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?

The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land.

Private security guards are not "troops".

And who do you think the real targets were? He was trying to hide the weapon and get in to the town. He only fired at the security guards and the one border police officer when they became suspicious of him.

Of course, he is a terrorist.

"Innocent" Israeli civilians.

 

[Shusha]

Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?

The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land.

Private security guards are not "troops".

And who do you think the real targets were? He was trying to hide the weapon and get in to the town. He only fired at the security guards and the one border police officer when they became suspicious of him.

Of course, he is a terrorist.

"Innocent" Israeli civilians.

Oh give me a break. You wanna play Battle-of-the-Emotional-Images?

Innocent Israeli Jewish citizens:

Don't you DARE try and turn the tables and make this about Israeli Jews. This is about Palestinian terrorism.

Your argument is that the Palestinians have a right to commit terrorism and kill (or attempt to kill) innocent people as "defense against the occupation'. Its moral bullshit. Its abhorrent. Its disgusting.

A State has the obligation to protect its citizens from people who try to harm them.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Attacking foreign troops is not terrorism. Who wrote this crap?

The Jewish people are not foreigners in their own land.

Private security guards are not "troops".

And who do you think the real targets were? He was trying to hide the weapon and get in to the town. He only fired at the security guards and the one border police officer when they became suspicious of him.

Of course, he is a terrorist.

"Innocent" Israeli civilians.

Oh give me a break. You wanna play Battle-of-the-Emotional-Images?

Innocent Israeli Jewish citizens:

Don't you DARE try and turn the tables and make this about Israeli Jews. This is about Palestinian terrorism.

Your argument is that the Palestinians have a right to commit terrorism and kill (or attempt to kill) innocent people as "defense against the occupation'. Its moral bullshit. Its abhorrent. Its disgusting.

A State has the obligation to protect its citizens from people who try to harm them.

How many of those did not live on stolen land?

 

[Shusha]

How many of those did not live on stolen land?

So now you want to double down on the disgusting? If they lived on stolen land, then its just darn fine for Palestinians to murder them. Its the argument that there are no innocent Jews and that they all deserve to be killed. Now, where have I heard THAT before?

 

[Shusha]

Seriously, its times like this when people feel justified in the deliberate murder of children and innocents that I just shake my head and want to give up trying to make peace. How can the Jewish people live with a people who feel this way?

 

[P F Tinmore]

How many of those did not live on stolen land?

So now you want to double down on the disgusting? If they lived on stolen land, then its just darn fine for Palestinians to murder them. Its the argument that there are no innocent Jews and that they all deserve to be killed. Now, where have I heard THAT before?

Nice deflection.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Seriously, its times like this when people feel justified in the deliberate murder of children and innocents that I just shake my head and want to give up trying to make peace. How can the Jewish people live with a people who feel this way?

I don't know. It seems like a bad choice to kick people out of their homes and move in.

 

[Shusha]

Nice deflection.

Deflection? We WERE talking about a specific act of Palestinian terrorism. And you are DEFENDING it by claiming that its morally acceptable to murder Jews, using an old antisemitic canard the no Jew is innocent.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Nice deflection.

Deflection? We WERE talking about a specific act of Palestinian terrorism. And you are DEFENDING it by claiming that its morally acceptable to murder Jews, using an old antisemitic canard the no Jew is innocent.

You think Palestinian self defense is terrorism?

You need to get off that Israeli propaganda.

 

[Shusha]

I don't know. It seems like a bad choice to kick people out of their homes and move in.

Worked for all of the ME Arab nations who expelled their Jews.

Seems to me the problems come when trying to make peace with a people who wants to kill you. Perhaps better for the expulsion to have been mutual, as ugly as that is.

 

[Shusha]

You think Palestinian self defense is terrorism?

You think violating a family's home and murdering a child in her sleep is "self-defense"? You think violating a family's Shabbat meal and murdering a father protecting his wife and children is "self-defense"?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I don't know. It seems like a bad choice to kick people out of their homes and move in.

Worked for all of the ME Arab nations who expelled their Jews.

Seems to me the problems come when trying to make peace with a people who wants to kill you. Perhaps better for the expulsion to have been mutual, as ugly as that is.

The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when foreigners came down to give them the boot and steal their stuff.

How can you blame the Palestinians for defending themselves from that?

 

[Sixties Fan]

I don't know. It seems like a bad choice to kick people out of their homes and move in.

Worked for all of the ME Arab nations who expelled their Jews.

Seems to me the problems come when trying to make peace with a people who wants to kill you. Perhaps better for the expulsion to have been mutual, as ugly as that is.

The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when foreigners came down to give them the boot and steal their stuff.

How can you blame the Palestinians for defending themselves from that?

Oh, me, oh, my.

The Jews had always lived on THEIR HOMELAND. They must be considered Palestinians, too, if you insist in calling the area Palestine.

The Arab Palestinians, like all other Palestinians were not "minding their own business". They were being treated badly by the Ottoman Turks, because it was part of the Ottoman Empire.

The only ones who saw themselves being given the boot and having their "stuff" stolen were the Jews, from 1920 to 1948.

Not only "given the boot" but murdered and raped as well.

You insist in painting a Palestine where the Jews never had a Nation on it, where there were actually no Jews at all living on the land, and they just came, out of nowhere (the brutes), to steal a land, etc which had never belonged to them.

JEWS, and not ARABS, are the indigenous, rightful owners of the land.

JEWS, and not ARABS, have the right to call themselves Palestinians, as the name was given to their LAND, Judea, etc by the Romans who defeated them, and not any Arab clan - there were no Arab clans living on the land at the time, not until 500 years later when the Arab Muslims invaded en masse.

Go tell the Arab foreigners to go back to where they came from, Arabia.
It will be a much more peaceful world, once the Muslim Arabs go back where they used to be semi peaceful and did not spend as much time stealing each other clan's lands.

 

[Shusha]

How can you blame the Palestinians for defending themselves from that?

But they are NOT defending themselves. No one is attacking them.

They are using terrorism to remove another people's from land.

It's not the same thing. And those other people's have an equal right to be there.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Jews had always lived on THEIR HOMELAND. They must be considered Palestinians, too, if you insist in calling the area Palestine.

You are banging on an issue that is not disputed. The Jews who had lived there forever became Palestinians with the rest of the Palestinians after WWI.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Jews had always lived on THEIR HOMELAND. They must be considered Palestinians, too, if you insist in calling the area Palestine.

You are banging on an issue that is not disputed. The Jews who had lived there forever became Palestinians with the rest of the Palestinians after WWI.

The Jews became "Palestinians" like the Arabs and all others because the Mandate used the word Palestine and not Israel, that is all.

Once the Mandate came to a full fruition, once the British finally gave up the Mandate in 1947, the UN approved that the Jews could establish their State. The Arabs refused to establish theirs.

Israel exists because the Jews did everything necessary from 1920 on to create a State, from infrastructure to everything else.

The Arabs only attacked and wanted to keep Israel (The Mandate for Palestine) from happening.

NOW, it is a matter for them to destroy the State they never wanted to see being established via all the attacks and the wars the Arab League started each and every time, in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.

It was never the "Palestinians" and their rights to a homeland, a State, but the rights of the Muslims to keep the land in Muslim hands.

And it is that way till today. No matter how many Arabs are fooled into believing that their problems come from the Jews.

Islam is a conquering ideology. They HATE losing land. Just ask them about Andalusia, Vienna and many other parts of Europe they once had control over.

Muslims Only.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Once the Mandate came to a full fruition, once the British finally gave up the Mandate in 1947, the UN approved that the Jews could establish their State. The Arabs refused to establish theirs.

You are full of shit. That is not what happened.