White privilege

[ding]

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

How have I insulted you? What exactly have I written that was an insult?

And no, you have not made yourself clear to me. Maybe you are confusing your conversation with someone else. I'm not reading those. I'm just reading the ones directed at me.

I don't see skin color affecting generations of successful outcomes. I see human behaviors as the foundation for passing down successful behaviors as the foundation of successful outcomes. That's exactly how natural selection works too. In fact, there are examples of people of color doing exactly that. Why is it that theye were able to do it and others weren't. And the converse also applies, not all whites have had generational success. The answer for both is simple. The ones who have succeeded did so because they practiced successful behaviors and the ones that didn't practiced failed behaviors.

Apologies, I got you confused with one of the other Yahoos that have been in this conversation who have been pumping out the petty insults. You have been respectful with your arguments and its appreciated.

Per your points... I totally agree and there is a percentage of people of color finding tremendous success, some defy the odds and rise from really bad circumstances and others are born with wealth and opportunity. Many white kids are born into bad situations and many in good situations that blow it. Some face racial discrimination and others don't. I'm not speaking to individuals i'm trying to give perspective on what people mean when they say "white privilege". I think it's important to understand and recognize the chain reaction that has happened through generations of oppression that has now resulted in a high poverty and low "success" situation amongst a large percentage of blacks. You can still acknowledge the reality of that situation and not support government programs or additional laws/regulations that favor African Americans. It is possible for you to say, yeah, slavery was shitty, and it sucks that it took till the 60's to allow blacks to vote, and I see how the generations of oppression and lingering instances of racism that still exist have put a large percentage of black people in a hole making it harder for them to succeed. You can recognize all of that and still hold conservative views on government programs and assistance. I just don't understand why people outright deny that these "disadvantages" are real.

I think its a cop out when black people use it as an excuse to not work, when they have extra babies so they can collect more from the government, when they intentionally do not seek work because they are fine living off the government and think they are owed a check. I don't support any of that entitled crap, but I still understand what they mean when the say "white privilege"

Yes, we all don't start from the same place. Some have harder rows to hoe. It is no different in athletics either in that not all athletes have the same level of athletic talent. Yet, some with lesser talent out perform those with greater talent. I don't deny history or the suffering of others. I deny using that as an excuse because it is a self fulfilling prophecy. It does them no good to do so and only serves to keep them in bondage.

Again, I agree with you, and I don't condone using it as an excuse. I think from a leadership and socioeconomic perspective the "white privilege" situation should be understood and not ignored. Many poor black people do use it as an excuse and many abuse our welfare system instead of taking personal responsibly.

You are probably lucky enough to have been taught good personal responsibility skills and discipline from your parents who probably learned it from their parents. Maybe not, maybe you are one of the few that fought through a tough upbringing and learned those lessons yourself, but the majority of people are a product of their upbringing. When you have a large percentage of children being raised by single mothers on welfare, who don't even have college or a career on their radar, it makes it a lot tougher for them to learn to be personally responsibly. My girl worked in the lowest income school district in Minneapolis and saw these problems face to face. So perhaps we recognize that mindset, and the culture that has developed and focus a different kind of curriculum in their schools and more community programs to show them that they do have opportunity and teach them a better way to think about things.

I do recognize the difficulties. I sympathize with them too. But it is a fine line to walk and unfortunately, it has become an excuse which has not served them well.

Did you know that in the 1930's the percentage of two parent black families exceeded that of white families? Do you know what happened to destroy the black nuclear family? Welfare. Welfare made it more lucrative to not have a two parent family. They have never recovered since and they have never acknowledged the root cause of their problem. It really is a shame and I don't know how they can recover until they acknowledge the problem. The problem can only be solved in their community.

 

[ding]

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

Now to make my point... people who blame external sources for their failures - like I could not succeed because I was disadvantaged - only serve to keep themselves from accepting the accountability of their actions and learn from their mistakes. They are literally transferring their power to an external source and preventing themselves from controlling their own destinies. Not all behaviors lead to successful outcomes. At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices. Skin color has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

I agree

Ok, so what good comes from pushing a victim mentality that will only serve as an excuse for failure?

Let's say your kid has a teacher that doesn't like him and is hard on him. Would you counsel him that it was ok to fail because it was unfair? Or would you counsel him to study so hard that it would not be possible for the teacher to grade him harshly?

I would teach him how to achieve success in face of adversity... I wouldn't ignore the fact that the teacher was being hard on him and that it was a cause of hardship or even unfair discrimination. I would recognize that it was an issue and help him prevail in spite of the circumstances.

Agreed and then I would hold that teacher accountable for his actions when I had the overwhelming evidence to do so. Accountability is a two way street.

 

[Slade3200]

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

Now to make my point... people who blame external sources for their failures - like I could not succeed because I was disadvantaged - only serve to keep themselves from accepting the accountability of their actions and learn from their mistakes. They are literally transferring their power to an external source and preventing themselves from controlling their own destinies. Not all behaviors lead to successful outcomes. At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices. Skin color has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

I agree

Ok, so what good comes from pushing a victim mentality that will only serve as an excuse for failure?

Let's say your kid has a teacher that doesn't like him and is hard on him. Would you counsel him that it was ok to fail because it was unfair? Or would you counsel him to study so hard that it would not be possible for the teacher to grade him harshly?

I would teach him how to achieve success in face of adversity... I wouldn't ignore the fact that the teacher was being hard on him and that it was a cause of hardship or even unfair discrimination. I would recognize that it was an issue and help him prevail in spite of the circumstances.

Agreed and then I would hold that teacher accountable for his actions when I had the overwhelming evidence to do so. Accountability is a two way street.

Yes, but if we are relating it to this situation, the kid is already onto the next grade and the teacher was fired but the bad grade is still on his record. Now he is struggling to get into the college of his choice...

 

[ding]

Now to make my point... people who blame external sources for their failures - like I could not succeed because I was disadvantaged - only serve to keep themselves from accepting the accountability of their actions and learn from their mistakes. They are literally transferring their power to an external source and preventing themselves from controlling their own destinies. Not all behaviors lead to successful outcomes. At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices. Skin color has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

I agree

Ok, so what good comes from pushing a victim mentality that will only serve as an excuse for failure?

Let's say your kid has a teacher that doesn't like him and is hard on him. Would you counsel him that it was ok to fail because it was unfair? Or would you counsel him to study so hard that it would not be possible for the teacher to grade him harshly?

I would teach him how to achieve success in face of adversity... I wouldn't ignore the fact that the teacher was being hard on him and that it was a cause of hardship or even unfair discrimination. I would recognize that it was an issue and help him prevail in spite of the circumstances.

Agreed and then I would hold that teacher accountable for his actions when I had the overwhelming evidence to do so. Accountability is a two way street.

Yes, but if we are relating it to this situation, the kid is already onto the next grade and the teacher was fired but the bad grade is still on his record. Now he is struggling to get into the college of his choice...

Not if he performed at a level that prevented the bad grade or made it impossible for the teacher's superior to ignore. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are right. So what? Because in studying extra hard to defeat the unethical teacher, your son would have gained even more knowledge than if that had never happened and would have led to even greater success. And lastly, we can only control what is within our control. There are no guarantees in life. At the end of the day all that matters is becoming the best version of ourselves that we can become. Everything else will take care of itself, especially if we strive to do the right thing, for the right reason, the right way. Do those things and I like our chances.

 

[Slade3200]

I agree

Ok, so what good comes from pushing a victim mentality that will only serve as an excuse for failure?

Let's say your kid has a teacher that doesn't like him and is hard on him. Would you counsel him that it was ok to fail because it was unfair? Or would you counsel him to study so hard that it would not be possible for the teacher to grade him harshly?

I would teach him how to achieve success in face of adversity... I wouldn't ignore the fact that the teacher was being hard on him and that it was a cause of hardship or even unfair discrimination. I would recognize that it was an issue and help him prevail in spite of the circumstances.

Agreed and then I would hold that teacher accountable for his actions when I had the overwhelming evidence to do so. Accountability is a two way street.

Yes, but if we are relating it to this situation, the kid is already onto the next grade and the teacher was fired but the bad grade is still on his record. Now he is struggling to get into the college of his choice...

Not if he performed at a level that prevented the bad grade or made it impossible for the teacher's superior to ignore. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are right. So what? Because in studying extra hard to defeat the unethical teacher, your son would have gained even more knowledge than if that had never happened and would have led to even greater success. And lastly, we can only control what is within our control. There are no guarantees in life. At the end of the day all that matters is becoming the best version of ourselves that we can become. Everything else will take care of itself, especially if we strive to do the right thing, for the right reason, the right way. Do those things and I like our chances.

I agree whole heartedly with your message, you sound like a father and or a teacher and a pretty good one at that. I think these lessons should absolutely be taught to our youth and the black community. What I see as adverse to productivity is people like PTBW who can't recognize that many blacks are in a whole because of their history, those who think that blacks are over advantaged and more privileged than whites, and that they are watering down our once proud white nation and lowering the score of our country. That perspective makes me sick. Like you said, responsibility it goes both ways, but at the heart of everything I believe in empathy and honest communication where both sides do their best to understand and be respectful of the others argument. (Cases like PTBW excluded of course ;-)

 

[ding]

Ok, so what good comes from pushing a victim mentality that will only serve as an excuse for failure?

Let's say your kid has a teacher that doesn't like him and is hard on him. Would you counsel him that it was ok to fail because it was unfair? Or would you counsel him to study so hard that it would not be possible for the teacher to grade him harshly?

I would teach him how to achieve success in face of adversity... I wouldn't ignore the fact that the teacher was being hard on him and that it was a cause of hardship or even unfair discrimination. I would recognize that it was an issue and help him prevail in spite of the circumstances.

Agreed and then I would hold that teacher accountable for his actions when I had the overwhelming evidence to do so. Accountability is a two way street.

Yes, but if we are relating it to this situation, the kid is already onto the next grade and the teacher was fired but the bad grade is still on his record. Now he is struggling to get into the college of his choice...

Not if he performed at a level that prevented the bad grade or made it impossible for the teacher's superior to ignore. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are right. So what? Because in studying extra hard to defeat the unethical teacher, your son would have gained even more knowledge than if that had never happened and would have led to even greater success. And lastly, we can only control what is within our control. There are no guarantees in life. At the end of the day all that matters is becoming the best version of ourselves that we can become. Everything else will take care of itself, especially if we strive to do the right thing, for the right reason, the right way. Do those things and I like our chances.

I agree whole heartedly with your message, you sound like a father and or a teacher and a pretty good one at that. I think these lessons should absolutely be taught to our youth and the black community. What I see as adverse to productivity is people like PTBW who can't recognize that many blacks are in a whole because of their history, those who think that blacks are over advantaged and more privileged than whites, and that they are watering down our once proud white nation and lowering the score of our country. That perspective makes me sick. Like you said, responsibility it goes both ways, but at the heart of everything I believe in empathy and honest communication where both sides do their best to understand and be respectful of the others argument. (Cases like PTBW excluded of course ;-)

PTBW? What is that?

 

[Slade3200]

I would teach him how to achieve success in face of adversity... I wouldn't ignore the fact that the teacher was being hard on him and that it was a cause of hardship or even unfair discrimination. I would recognize that it was an issue and help him prevail in spite of the circumstances.

Agreed and then I would hold that teacher accountable for his actions when I had the overwhelming evidence to do so. Accountability is a two way street.

Yes, but if we are relating it to this situation, the kid is already onto the next grade and the teacher was fired but the bad grade is still on his record. Now he is struggling to get into the college of his choice...

Not if he performed at a level that prevented the bad grade or made it impossible for the teacher's superior to ignore. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are right. So what? Because in studying extra hard to defeat the unethical teacher, your son would have gained even more knowledge than if that had never happened and would have led to even greater success. And lastly, we can only control what is within our control. There are no guarantees in life. At the end of the day all that matters is becoming the best version of ourselves that we can become. Everything else will take care of itself, especially if we strive to do the right thing, for the right reason, the right way. Do those things and I like our chances.

I agree whole heartedly with your message, you sound like a father and or a teacher and a pretty good one at that. I think these lessons should absolutely be taught to our youth and the black community. What I see as adverse to productivity is people like PTBW who can't recognize that many blacks are in a whole because of their history, those who think that blacks are over advantaged and more privileged than whites, and that they are watering down our once proud white nation and lowering the score of our country. That perspective makes me sick. Like you said, responsibility it goes both ways, but at the heart of everything I believe in empathy and honest communication where both sides do their best to understand and be respectful of the others argument. (Cases like PTBW excluded of course ;-)

PTBW? What is that?

He's a poster on this board that I was going back and forth with. I try to be respectful of everybody on here but there are some real whackos

 

[ptbw forever]

Ok, so what good comes from pushing a victim mentality that will only serve as an excuse for failure?

Let's say your kid has a teacher that doesn't like him and is hard on him. Would you counsel him that it was ok to fail because it was unfair? Or would you counsel him to study so hard that it would not be possible for the teacher to grade him harshly?

I would teach him how to achieve success in face of adversity... I wouldn't ignore the fact that the teacher was being hard on him and that it was a cause of hardship or even unfair discrimination. I would recognize that it was an issue and help him prevail in spite of the circumstances.

Agreed and then I would hold that teacher accountable for his actions when I had the overwhelming evidence to do so. Accountability is a two way street.

Yes, but if we are relating it to this situation, the kid is already onto the next grade and the teacher was fired but the bad grade is still on his record. Now he is struggling to get into the college of his choice...

Not if he performed at a level that prevented the bad grade or made it impossible for the teacher's superior to ignore. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are right. So what? Because in studying extra hard to defeat the unethical teacher, your son would have gained even more knowledge than if that had never happened and would have led to even greater success. And lastly, we can only control what is within our control. There are no guarantees in life. At the end of the day all that matters is becoming the best version of ourselves that we can become. Everything else will take care of itself, especially if we strive to do the right thing, for the right reason, the right way. Do those things and I like our chances.

I agree whole heartedly with your message, you sound like a father and or a teacher and a pretty good one at that. I think these lessons should absolutely be taught to our youth and the black community. What I see as adverse to productivity is people like PTBW who can't recognize that many blacks are in a whole because of their history, those who think that blacks are over advantaged and more privileged than whites, and that they are watering down our once proud white nation and lowering the score of our country. That perspective makes me sick. Like you said, responsibility it goes both ways, but at the heart of everything I believe in empathy and honest communication where both sides do their best to understand and be respectful of the others argument. (Cases like PTBW excluded of course ;-)

You are despicable.

 

[MizMolly]

I had the privilege of being born in a remote logging camp where we lived in a two room cabin.

I sure feel sorry for the underprivileged like Jaden Smith who didn't have all of that because of his skin color. .

Question, how many white people do you think are third generation college graduates? How many blacks? How about third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners? Think On that for a second

Why should it matter how many generations had what? Everyone has equal opportunity now. I came from a poor family, who came from a poor family and so on. I had no privileges. I had to work hard and go to school to better myself and anything I have was not handed down to me.

 

[Slade3200]

I had the privilege of being born in a remote logging camp where we lived in a two room cabin.

I sure feel sorry for the underprivileged like Jaden Smith who didn't have all of that because of his skin color. .

Question, how many white people do you think are third generation college graduates? How many blacks? How about third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners? Think On that for a second

Why should it matter how many generations had what? Everyone has equal opportunity now. I came from a poor family, who came from a poor family and so on. I had no privileges. I had to work hard and go to school to better myself and anything I have was not handed down to me.

Good for you, really! If you don't understand the effects of coming from generations of people that were oppressed and discriminated against, them I guess you don't get it. But at least try and think about it for a bit before jumping to a conclusion.

 

[ding]

I had the privilege of being born in a remote logging camp where we lived in a two room cabin.

I sure feel sorry for the underprivileged like Jaden Smith who didn't have all of that because of his skin color. .

Question, how many white people do you think are third generation college graduates? How many blacks? How about third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners? Think On that for a second

Why should it matter how many generations had what? Everyone has equal opportunity now. I came from a poor family, who came from a poor family and so on. I had no privileges. I had to work hard and go to school to better myself and anything I have was not handed down to me.

Good for you, really! If you don't understand the effects of coming from generations of people that were oppressed and discriminated against, them I guess you don't get it. But at least try and think about it for a bit before jumping to a conclusion.

MizMolly is pretty much making the same point I was making. It doesn't matter from a practical standpoint. In fact, it can be a trap which has the exact opposite effect of what was intended. It is a slippery slope.

 

[Liberty777]

I had the privilege of being born in a remote logging camp where we lived in a two room cabin.

I sure feel sorry for the underprivileged like Jaden Smith who didn't have all of that because of his skin color. .

Question, how many white people do you think are third generation college graduates? How many blacks? How about third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners? Think On that for a second

your making blacks look lazy and under accomplished.

 

[Slade3200]

I had the privilege of being born in a remote logging camp where we lived in a two room cabin.

I sure feel sorry for the underprivileged like Jaden Smith who didn't have all of that because of his skin color. .

Question, how many white people do you think are third generation college graduates? How many blacks? How about third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners? Think On that for a second

Why should it matter how many generations had what? Everyone has equal opportunity now. I came from a poor family, who came from a poor family and so on. I had no privileges. I had to work hard and go to school to better myself and anything I have was not handed down to me.

Good for you, really! If you don't understand the effects of coming from generations of people that were oppressed and discriminated against, them I guess you don't get it. But at least try and think about it for a bit before jumping to a conclusion.

MizMolly is pretty much making the same point I was making. It doesn't matter from a practical standpoint. In fact, it can be a trap which has the exact opposite effect of what was intended. It is a slippery slope.

Both din and MizMolly are taking a pragmatic approach which I totally agree with if I was teaching, mentoring, or working with an individual who was using "white privilege" as an excuse for inaction. But I do not see how you can look at history and deny the effects that our nations oppression of black people has had on that group and the lingering effects that still exist in todays society. Try and look at it from a historical/sociological/intellectual stand point. I am not advocating the use of "white privilege" as a justification for blacks to think they are owed something or to use as an excuse to not strive for success. But I also don't see the point in denying the obvious existence of a trickle down disadvantage that is still lingering from our history. Whether it be current racial discrimination, increased poverty rates, welfare dependency, cultural mindset etc etc etc.

We can have a different discussion about political solutions, messaging, and education initiatives. But lets not shake our heads and deny historical and sociological "cause and effects" and the reality of the world that we live in. We can all start off on the same page of understanding and acknowledging reality... then use empathy and productive education to push a message towards success for those that need it.

 

[ding]

I had the privilege of being born in a remote logging camp where we lived in a two room cabin.

I sure feel sorry for the underprivileged like Jaden Smith who didn't have all of that because of his skin color. .

Question, how many white people do you think are third generation college graduates? How many blacks? How about third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners? Think On that for a second

Why should it matter how many generations had what? Everyone has equal opportunity now. I came from a poor family, who came from a poor family and so on. I had no privileges. I had to work hard and go to school to better myself and anything I have was not handed down to me.

Good for you, really! If you don't understand the effects of coming from generations of people that were oppressed and discriminated against, them I guess you don't get it. But at least try and think about it for a bit before jumping to a conclusion.

MizMolly is pretty much making the same point I was making. It doesn't matter from a practical standpoint. In fact, it can be a trap which has the exact opposite effect of what was intended. It is a slippery slope.

Both din and MizMolly are taking a pragmatic approach which I totally agree with if I was teaching, mentoring, or working with an individual who was using "white privilege" as an excuse for inaction. But I do not see how you can look at history and deny the effects that our nations oppression of black people has had on that group and the lingering effects that still exist in todays society. Try and look at it from a historical/sociological/intellectual stand point. I am not advocating the use of "white privilege" as a justification for blacks to think they are owed something or to use as an excuse to not strive for success. But I also don't see the point in denying the obvious existence of a trickle down disadvantage that is still lingering from our history. Whether it be current racial discrimination, increased poverty rates, welfare dependency, cultural mindset etc etc etc.

We can have a different discussion about political solutions, messaging, and education initiatives. But lets not shake our heads and deny historical and sociological "cause and effects" and the reality of the world that we live in. We can all start off on the same page of understanding and acknowledging reality... then use empathy and productive education to push a message towards success for those that need it.

The problem is that the "white privilege" argument has kept them down because it has been and is being used as an excuse.

 

[Slade3200]

Question, how many white people do you think are third generation college graduates? How many blacks? How about third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners? Think On that for a second

Why should it matter how many generations had what? Everyone has equal opportunity now. I came from a poor family, who came from a poor family and so on. I had no privileges. I had to work hard and go to school to better myself and anything I have was not handed down to me.

Good for you, really! If you don't understand the effects of coming from generations of people that were oppressed and discriminated against, them I guess you don't get it. But at least try and think about it for a bit before jumping to a conclusion.

MizMolly is pretty much making the same point I was making. It doesn't matter from a practical standpoint. In fact, it can be a trap which has the exact opposite effect of what was intended. It is a slippery slope.

Both din and MizMolly are taking a pragmatic approach which I totally agree with if I was teaching, mentoring, or working with an individual who was using "white privilege" as an excuse for inaction. But I do not see how you can look at history and deny the effects that our nations oppression of black people has had on that group and the lingering effects that still exist in todays society. Try and look at it from a historical/sociological/intellectual stand point. I am not advocating the use of "white privilege" as a justification for blacks to think they are owed something or to use as an excuse to not strive for success. But I also don't see the point in denying the obvious existence of a trickle down disadvantage that is still lingering from our history. Whether it be current racial discrimination, increased poverty rates, welfare dependency, cultural mindset etc etc etc.

We can have a different discussion about political solutions, messaging, and education initiatives. But lets not shake our heads and deny historical and sociological "cause and effects" and the reality of the world that we live in. We can all start off on the same page of understanding and acknowledging reality... then use empathy and productive education to push a message towards success for those that need it.

The problem is that the "white privilege" argument has kept them down because it has been and is being used as an excuse.

I agree and I recognize the damage being cause by people who use it as an excuse. I also don't support it being used as an excuse. But dismissing the validity of the arguement and saying that it does not exist is not being honest.

If a 5 foot 5 guy wants to be In the NFL, I'm gonna tell him he needs to work harder than everybody else. I'm not going to deny the fact that he is small. It's not the most accurate analogy because white privilege is more of a general sociological thing rather than a specific thing that applies to every black person. On an individual level I dont think it holds up as much

 

[ding]

Why should it matter how many generations had what? Everyone has equal opportunity now. I came from a poor family, who came from a poor family and so on. I had no privileges. I had to work hard and go to school to better myself and anything I have was not handed down to me.

Good for you, really! If you don't understand the effects of coming from generations of people that were oppressed and discriminated against, them I guess you don't get it. But at least try and think about it for a bit before jumping to a conclusion.

MizMolly is pretty much making the same point I was making. It doesn't matter from a practical standpoint. In fact, it can be a trap which has the exact opposite effect of what was intended. It is a slippery slope.

Both din and MizMolly are taking a pragmatic approach which I totally agree with if I was teaching, mentoring, or working with an individual who was using "white privilege" as an excuse for inaction. But I do not see how you can look at history and deny the effects that our nations oppression of black people has had on that group and the lingering effects that still exist in todays society. Try and look at it from a historical/sociological/intellectual stand point. I am not advocating the use of "white privilege" as a justification for blacks to think they are owed something or to use as an excuse to not strive for success. But I also don't see the point in denying the obvious existence of a trickle down disadvantage that is still lingering from our history. Whether it be current racial discrimination, increased poverty rates, welfare dependency, cultural mindset etc etc etc.

We can have a different discussion about political solutions, messaging, and education initiatives. But lets not shake our heads and deny historical and sociological "cause and effects" and the reality of the world that we live in. We can all start off on the same page of understanding and acknowledging reality... then use empathy and productive education to push a message towards success for those that need it.

The problem is that the "white privilege" argument has kept them down because it has been and is being used as an excuse.

I agree and I recognize the damage being cause by people who use it as an excuse. I also don't support it being used as an excuse. But dismissing the validity of the arguement and saying that it does not exist is not being honest.

If a 5 foot 5 guy wants to be In the NFL, I'm gonna tell him he needs to work harder than everybody else. I'm not going to deny the fact that he is small. It's not the most accurate analogy because white privilege is more of a general sociological thing rather than a specific thing that applies to every black person. On an individual level I dont think it holds up as much

And yet as a group they have underperformed, right? Why?

 

[Slade3200]

Good for you, really! If you don't understand the effects of coming from generations of people that were oppressed and discriminated against, them I guess you don't get it. But at least try and think about it for a bit before jumping to a conclusion.

MizMolly is pretty much making the same point I was making. It doesn't matter from a practical standpoint. In fact, it can be a trap which has the exact opposite effect of what was intended. It is a slippery slope.

Both din and MizMolly are taking a pragmatic approach which I totally agree with if I was teaching, mentoring, or working with an individual who was using "white privilege" as an excuse for inaction. But I do not see how you can look at history and deny the effects that our nations oppression of black people has had on that group and the lingering effects that still exist in todays society. Try and look at it from a historical/sociological/intellectual stand point. I am not advocating the use of "white privilege" as a justification for blacks to think they are owed something or to use as an excuse to not strive for success. But I also don't see the point in denying the obvious existence of a trickle down disadvantage that is still lingering from our history. Whether it be current racial discrimination, increased poverty rates, welfare dependency, cultural mindset etc etc etc.

We can have a different discussion about political solutions, messaging, and education initiatives. But lets not shake our heads and deny historical and sociological "cause and effects" and the reality of the world that we live in. We can all start off on the same page of understanding and acknowledging reality... then use empathy and productive education to push a message towards success for those that need it.

The problem is that the "white privilege" argument has kept them down because it has been and is being used as an excuse.

I agree and I recognize the damage being cause by people who use it as an excuse. I also don't support it being used as an excuse. But dismissing the validity of the arguement and saying that it does not exist is not being honest.

If a 5 foot 5 guy wants to be In the NFL, I'm gonna tell him he needs to work harder than everybody else. I'm not going to deny the fact that he is small. It's not the most accurate analogy because white privilege is more of a general sociological thing rather than a specific thing that applies to every black person. On an individual level I dont think it holds up as much

And yet as a group they have underperformed, right? Why?

For the many reasons I listed. A larger majority of black youth are being raised in poverty by single mothers in high crime areas, very few aspire to go to the college that their fathers and grandfathers attended, or will take over the family business. Instead they are trying to stay out of gangs and dealing with a heap of other issues that a majority of white kids don't deal with. Whites in this country had 200 years and generations to achieve wealth and power and build upon their culture. Meanwhile blacks were slaves and then 3rd class citizens who didn't even have the right to vote until the 1960s. The laws have now been changed and more opportunities exist, but there are lasting effects that the black community has felt and is continuing to feel from past generations. For us to turn a blind eye to all that and say it has no effect just isn't being honest

 

[jillian]

Ever notice that the whole concept of white privilege is the same racist idea that white people are superior and better than other races. The only difference between white privilege and traditional racism is they encourage guilt instead of pride.

That's really funny from someone whose religion said being black was a punishment

 

[ding]

MizMolly is pretty much making the same point I was making. It doesn't matter from a practical standpoint. In fact, it can be a trap which has the exact opposite effect of what was intended. It is a slippery slope.

Both din and MizMolly are taking a pragmatic approach which I totally agree with if I was teaching, mentoring, or working with an individual who was using "white privilege" as an excuse for inaction. But I do not see how you can look at history and deny the effects that our nations oppression of black people has had on that group and the lingering effects that still exist in todays society. Try and look at it from a historical/sociological/intellectual stand point. I am not advocating the use of "white privilege" as a justification for blacks to think they are owed something or to use as an excuse to not strive for success. But I also don't see the point in denying the obvious existence of a trickle down disadvantage that is still lingering from our history. Whether it be current racial discrimination, increased poverty rates, welfare dependency, cultural mindset etc etc etc.

We can have a different discussion about political solutions, messaging, and education initiatives. But lets not shake our heads and deny historical and sociological "cause and effects" and the reality of the world that we live in. We can all start off on the same page of understanding and acknowledging reality... then use empathy and productive education to push a message towards success for those that need it.

The problem is that the "white privilege" argument has kept them down because it has been and is being used as an excuse.

I agree and I recognize the damage being cause by people who use it as an excuse. I also don't support it being used as an excuse. But dismissing the validity of the arguement and saying that it does not exist is not being honest.

If a 5 foot 5 guy wants to be In the NFL, I'm gonna tell him he needs to work harder than everybody else. I'm not going to deny the fact that he is small. It's not the most accurate analogy because white privilege is more of a general sociological thing rather than a specific thing that applies to every black person. On an individual level I dont think it holds up as much

And yet as a group they have underperformed, right? Why?

For the many reasons I listed. A larger majority of black youth are being raised in poverty by single mothers in high crime areas, very few aspire to go to the college that their fathers and grandfathers attended, or will take over the family business. Instead they are trying to stay out of gangs and dealing with a heap of other issues that a majority of white kids don't deal with. Whites in this country had 200 years and generations to achieve wealth and power and build upon their culture. Meanwhile blacks were slaves and then 3rd class citizens who didn't even have the right to vote until the 1960s. The laws have now been changed and more opportunities exist, but there are lasting effects that the black community has felt and is continuing to feel from past generations. For us to turn a blind eye to all that and say it has no effect just isn't being honest

So basically you are saying they have been held back because they were victims, right?

 

[MaryL]

Ever notice that the whole concept of white privilege is the same racist idea that white people are superior and better than other races. The only difference between white privilege and traditional racism is they encourage guilt instead of pride.

To put a sharper point on it, it's usually rich white pseudo intellectuals liberals that push that agenda. They are higher income (and mock lower income whites as inferior) and live in gated separatist communities. They despise Christianity yet praise Islam. Even though Islam is the absolute reverse of American and western liberalism, liberals will defend ANYTHING , why, I can't figure. And they lost the election because they don't vote and they think bitching will win over. They will protest in huge numbers as an afterthought.