White privilege

[ptbw forever]

[you can't see how beneficial it is for those parents(and those communities) compared to the struggling white parents with fewer children and much more financial burdens.

I can't see how beneficial what is?

That their expenses are paid for while the middle class white parents are struggling to put food on the table with their own hard earned money.

Again you bring up welfare which doesn't have anything to do with the conversation. I believe that our welfare system is a mess and it creates a unhealthy culture of dependency instead of helping poor people become more self dependent. But that is another conversation... We are talking about an underlying series of events that have driven an entire race of people into a more impoverished, less educated, less wealthy, set of circumstances. Recent laws have tried to even the playing field and efforts are being made to help make up for the disparity, some of these efforts have been helpful and others counterproductive. But you are denying the existence of the problem altogether.

Recent laws always fuck over white people, regardless of whether there is some nominal benefit to non-whites that they don't even take advantage of.

If you keep subtracting from the "white" side, the "black" side eventually catches up regardless of whether there is addition going on or not.

Honest question, do you consider yourself a racist or a white supremacist?

Nope, I am a humanist.

 

[ptbw forever]

I don't claim to be all that smart, I am just saying that you and the assholes who created the concept of "white privilege" are dumb.

Being mediocre is a privilege in a world of retards.

Says the guy who is worried about the dropping number of white children who are the ones responsible for progressing and shaping our society. To me it sounds like you are scared of having to deal with some the struggles and challenges that most blacks deal with on a daily basis.

I could easily deal with what blacks go through if I had their social and institutional advantages. Black people wouldn't have a prayer of dealing with the problems that are destroying European/western culture.

Blacks know how bad it will get for the average white person, and most of them are relieved beyond relief that the number of black children isn't going down worldwide like the number of white children.

You are delusional if you think the birthrate is some masterminded conspiracy to overtake the white race. We can talk about welfare reforms and better sexual education and healthcare and the many other possible solutions to help the problems you bring up, but that is a different conversation.

The birth rate problem is what it is, but the fact is that white'people aren't allowed to organize as a people to even attempt to fix it.

What kind of campaign would you want to see organized?

Mass cultural education programs.

 

[Slade3200]

Says the guy who is worried about the dropping number of white children who are the ones responsible for progressing and shaping our society. To me it sounds like you are scared of having to deal with some the struggles and challenges that most blacks deal with on a daily basis.

I could easily deal with what blacks go through if I had their social and institutional advantages. Black people wouldn't have a prayer of dealing with the problems that are destroying European/western culture.

Blacks know how bad it will get for the average white person, and most of them are relieved beyond relief that the number of black children isn't going down worldwide like the number of white children.

You are delusional if you think the birthrate is some masterminded conspiracy to overtake the white race. We can talk about welfare reforms and better sexual education and healthcare and the many other possible solutions to help the problems you bring up, but that is a different conversation.

The birth rate problem is what it is, but the fact is that white'people aren't allowed to organize as a people to even attempt to fix it.

What kind of campaign would you want to see organized?

Mass cultural education programs.

Pushing what message?

 

[ptbw forever]

I could easily deal with what blacks go through if I had their social and institutional advantages. Black people wouldn't have a prayer of dealing with the problems that are destroying European/western culture.

Blacks know how bad it will get for the average white person, and most of them are relieved beyond relief that the number of black children isn't going down worldwide like the number of white children.

You are delusional if you think the birthrate is some masterminded conspiracy to overtake the white race. We can talk about welfare reforms and better sexual education and healthcare and the many other possible solutions to help the problems you bring up, but that is a different conversation.

The birth rate problem is what it is, but the fact is that white'people aren't allowed to organize as a people to even attempt to fix it.

What kind of campaign would you want to see organized?

Mass cultural education programs.

Pushing what message?

That European history is awesome and young white people should want to be a part of it and continue it by having lots of children who also cherish their heritage.

 

[Slade3200]

You are delusional if you think the birthrate is some masterminded conspiracy to overtake the white race. We can talk about welfare reforms and better sexual education and healthcare and the many other possible solutions to help the problems you bring up, but that is a different conversation.

The birth rate problem is what it is, but the fact is that white'people aren't allowed to organize as a people to even attempt to fix it.

What kind of campaign would you want to see organized?

Mass cultural education programs.

Pushing what message?

That European history is awesome and young white people should want to be a part of it and continue it by having lots of children who also cherish their heritage.

I don't see any kind of limitations for that. There are groups and businesses in every community that i've been in that celebrate many European races and cultures... Italian restaurants, Irish pubs, French, English, Swiss, Dutch, German groups... I see them everywhere. So what exactly are you getting at? It sounds like you are hiding your real motives. Are you anti mixing races? Are you sure you are not a closet white supremacist? It sounds very much like you are but you are too scare to come out and say it.

 

[ding]

Ummm... no, I pointed out the logical conclusion of your external locus of control. No trolling necessary, but I do like how you try to accuse others of what you do.

So after you accuse me of shit twice THEN YOU complain about accusations? Rofl...hilarious!

This isn't going well for you.

Aww

I know. You'll think twice next time. These things are very Darwinian that way.

You're raising your own hand in victory. Thats cool and original.

It isn't the victory I am pointing out. Like I said before, these things are very Darwinian. They work themselves out.

 

[ptbw forever]

The birth rate problem is what it is, but the fact is that white'people aren't allowed to organize as a people to even attempt to fix it.

What kind of campaign would you want to see organized?

Mass cultural education programs.

Pushing what message?

That European history is awesome and young white people should want to be a part of it and continue it by having lots of children who also cherish their heritage.

I don't see any kind of limitations for that. There are groups and businesses in every community that i've been in that celebrate many European races and cultures... Italian restaurants, Irish pubs, French, English, Swiss, Dutch, German groups... I see them everywhere. So what exactly are you getting at? It sounds like you are hiding your real motives. Are you anti mixing races? Are you sure you are not a closet white supremacist? It sounds very much like you are but you are too scare to come out and say it.

White people as a whole are only ever called Europeans to link us to colonial slavery, western imperialism and the Holocaust(I.E white guilt propaganda). It has been decades since whiteness has been acknowledged as being one and the same with Europeaness.

 

[ding]

I'm not being defensive. We live in a merit based society. Anyone can accomplish anything that they can earn. And no, the fact that I am asking you that question does not mean I have missed the point. I don't accept your point that people are not in control of their own destinies. You are missing my point. For you to believe that "white privilege" unfairly advantages some, must mean that you believe that it unfairly disadvantages others. That my friend is what we call an external locus of control. Life is what it is, to argue that there are circumstances beyond our control is a fatalistic attitude. While it is true that not everyone has the same starting point that does not mean that their lot will hold them back. There are plenty of rags to riches examples out there to prove that it is possible to succeed, even if your skin is not white or come from a family of wealth.

Agreed... i never said that people are not in control of their own destinies, I actually said the exact opposite of that. I'm simply explaining a reality which is true in our country. Acknowledgement of this reality goes a long way.

Which reality is that?

That the history of our nation in regards to the oppression of the black race has led to socioeconomic disadvantages that are still being felt today

That sounds exactly like what I have been talking about. Let's make an excuse for why they can blame someone else for their failure to adapt, improvise and overcome. You do realize that the only ones holding them back are themselves, right?

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

 

[Slade3200]

What kind of campaign would you want to see organized?

Mass cultural education programs.

Pushing what message?

That European history is awesome and young white people should want to be a part of it and continue it by having lots of children who also cherish their heritage.

I don't see any kind of limitations for that. There are groups and businesses in every community that i've been in that celebrate many European races and cultures... Italian restaurants, Irish pubs, French, English, Swiss, Dutch, German groups... I see them everywhere. So what exactly are you getting at? It sounds like you are hiding your real motives. Are you anti mixing races? Are you sure you are not a closet white supremacist? It sounds very much like you are but you are too scare to come out and say it.

White people as a whole are only ever called Europeans to link us to colonial slavery, western imperialism and the Holocaust(I.E white guilt propaganda). It has been decades since whiteness has been acknowledged as being one and the same with Europeaness.

Interesting... I recall in recent history this thing called the EU being formed? I can't remember if that is a white guilt racist group of a strategic partnership between nations with no racial implications.

You are totally stretching to make a weak as point that I think deep down you know is BS. You dodge my, much more rational, points that here in America and in most countries around the world people celebrate their heritage in many many ways. I pointed out many examples.

 

[Slade3200]

Agreed... i never said that people are not in control of their own destinies, I actually said the exact opposite of that. I'm simply explaining a reality which is true in our country. Acknowledgement of this reality goes a long way.

Which reality is that?

That the history of our nation in regards to the oppression of the black race has led to socioeconomic disadvantages that are still being felt today

That sounds exactly like what I have been talking about. Let's make an excuse for why they can blame someone else for their failure to adapt, improvise and overcome. You do realize that the only ones holding them back are themselves, right?

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

 

[ptbw forever]

Mass cultural education programs.

Pushing what message?

That European history is awesome and young white people should want to be a part of it and continue it by having lots of children who also cherish their heritage.

I don't see any kind of limitations for that. There are groups and businesses in every community that i've been in that celebrate many European races and cultures... Italian restaurants, Irish pubs, French, English, Swiss, Dutch, German groups... I see them everywhere. So what exactly are you getting at? It sounds like you are hiding your real motives. Are you anti mixing races? Are you sure you are not a closet white supremacist? It sounds very much like you are but you are too scare to come out and say it.

White people as a whole are only ever called Europeans to link us to colonial slavery, western imperialism and the Holocaust(I.E white guilt propaganda). It has been decades since whiteness has been acknowledged as being one and the same with Europeaness.

Interesting... I recall in recent history this thing called the EU being formed? I can't remember if that is a white guilt racist group of a strategic partnership between nations with no racial implications.

You are totally stretching to make a weak as point that I think deep down you know is BS. You dodge my, much more rational, points that here in America and in most countries around the world people celebrate their heritage in many many ways. I pointed out many examples.

The EU is dying already because its sole reason for existing is to destroy the sovereignty of the individual European nation-states, it has nothing to do with acknowledging that white people are as indigenous to Europe as Native Americans are to North America.

The only way European cultures are celebrated today are as relics of the past that must conform to Asian and African imperialism.

 

[Slade3200]

Pushing what message?

That European history is awesome and young white people should want to be a part of it and continue it by having lots of children who also cherish their heritage.

I don't see any kind of limitations for that. There are groups and businesses in every community that i've been in that celebrate many European races and cultures... Italian restaurants, Irish pubs, French, English, Swiss, Dutch, German groups... I see them everywhere. So what exactly are you getting at? It sounds like you are hiding your real motives. Are you anti mixing races? Are you sure you are not a closet white supremacist? It sounds very much like you are but you are too scare to come out and say it.

White people as a whole are only ever called Europeans to link us to colonial slavery, western imperialism and the Holocaust(I.E white guilt propaganda). It has been decades since whiteness has been acknowledged as being one and the same with Europeaness.

Interesting... I recall in recent history this thing called the EU being formed? I can't remember if that is a white guilt racist group of a strategic partnership between nations with no racial implications.

You are totally stretching to make a weak as point that I think deep down you know is BS. You dodge my, much more rational, points that here in America and in most countries around the world people celebrate their heritage in many many ways. I pointed out many examples.

The EU is dying already because its sole reason for existing is to destroy the sovereignty of the individual European nation-states, it has nothing to do with acknowledging that white people are as indigenous to Europe as Native Americans are to North America.

The only way European cultures are celebrated today are as relics of the past that must conform to Asian and African imperialism.

So I list a bunch of individual examples of how people celebrate and preserve their heritage (Italy, Spain, France, England, etc etc etc) but you bring up the group "Europeans" so I bring up the European Union and you say that group is destroying the sovereignty of individual states. Do you realize how exhausting it is to talk to people like you. You just can't make a solid point and stick to it.

 

[ding]

Which reality is that?

That the history of our nation in regards to the oppression of the black race has led to socioeconomic disadvantages that are still being felt today

That sounds exactly like what I have been talking about. Let's make an excuse for why they can blame someone else for their failure to adapt, improvise and overcome. You do realize that the only ones holding them back are themselves, right?

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

How have I insulted you? What exactly have I written that was an insult?

And no, you have not made yourself clear to me. Maybe you are confusing your conversation with someone else. I'm not reading those. I'm just reading the ones directed at me.

I don't see skin color affecting generations of successful outcomes. I see human behaviors as the foundation for passing down successful behaviors as the foundation of successful outcomes. That's exactly how natural selection works too. In fact, there are examples of people of color doing exactly that. Why is it that theye were able to do it and others weren't. And the converse also applies, not all whites have had generational success. The answer for both is simple. The ones who have succeeded did so because they practiced successful behaviors and the ones that didn't practiced failed behaviors.

 

[Slade3200]

That the history of our nation in regards to the oppression of the black race has led to socioeconomic disadvantages that are still being felt today

That sounds exactly like what I have been talking about. Let's make an excuse for why they can blame someone else for their failure to adapt, improvise and overcome. You do realize that the only ones holding them back are themselves, right?

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

How have I insulted you? What exactly have I written that was an insult?

And no, you have not made yourself clear to me. Maybe you are confusing your conversation with someone else. I'm not reading those. I'm just reading the ones directed at me.

I don't see skin color affecting generations of successful outcomes. I see human behaviors as the foundation for passing down successful behaviors as the foundation of successful outcomes. That's exactly how natural selection works too. In fact, there are examples of people of color doing exactly that. Why is it that theye were able to do it and others weren't. And the converse also applies, not all whites have had generational success. The answer for both is simple. The ones who have succeeded did so because they practiced successful behaviors and the ones that didn't practiced failed behaviors.

Apologies, I got you confused with one of the other Yahoos that have been in this conversation who have been pumping out the petty insults. You have been respectful with your arguments and its appreciated.

Per your points... I totally agree and there is a percentage of people of color finding tremendous success, some defy the odds and rise from really bad circumstances and others are born with wealth and opportunity. Many white kids are born into bad situations and many in good situations that blow it. Some face racial discrimination and others don't. I'm not speaking to individuals i'm trying to give perspective on what people mean when they say "white privilege". I think it's important to understand and recognize the chain reaction that has happened through generations of oppression that has now resulted in a high poverty and low "success" situation amongst a large percentage of blacks. You can still acknowledge the reality of that situation and not support government programs or additional laws/regulations that favor African Americans. It is possible for you to say, yeah, slavery was shitty, and it sucks that it took till the 60's to allow blacks to vote, and I see how the generations of oppression and lingering instances of racism that still exist have put a large percentage of black people in a hole making it harder for them to succeed. You can recognize all of that and still hold conservative views on government programs and assistance. I just don't understand why people outright deny that these "disadvantages" are real.

I think its a cop out when black people use it as an excuse to not work, when they have extra babies so they can collect more from the government, when they intentionally do not seek work because they are fine living off the government and think they are owed a check. I don't support any of that entitled crap, but I still understand what they mean when the say "white privilege"

 

[ding]

Which reality is that?

That the history of our nation in regards to the oppression of the black race has led to socioeconomic disadvantages that are still being felt today

That sounds exactly like what I have been talking about. Let's make an excuse for why they can blame someone else for their failure to adapt, improvise and overcome. You do realize that the only ones holding them back are themselves, right?

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

Now to make my point... people who blame external sources for their failures - like I could not succeed because I was disadvantaged - only serve to keep themselves from accepting the accountability of their actions and learn from their mistakes. They are literally transferring their power to an external source and preventing themselves from controlling their own destinies. Not all behaviors lead to successful outcomes. At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices. Skin color has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

 

[ding]

That sounds exactly like what I have been talking about. Let's make an excuse for why they can blame someone else for their failure to adapt, improvise and overcome. You do realize that the only ones holding them back are themselves, right?

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

How have I insulted you? What exactly have I written that was an insult?

And no, you have not made yourself clear to me. Maybe you are confusing your conversation with someone else. I'm not reading those. I'm just reading the ones directed at me.

I don't see skin color affecting generations of successful outcomes. I see human behaviors as the foundation for passing down successful behaviors as the foundation of successful outcomes. That's exactly how natural selection works too. In fact, there are examples of people of color doing exactly that. Why is it that theye were able to do it and others weren't. And the converse also applies, not all whites have had generational success. The answer for both is simple. The ones who have succeeded did so because they practiced successful behaviors and the ones that didn't practiced failed behaviors.

Apologies, I got you confused with one of the other Yahoos that have been in this conversation who have been pumping out the petty insults. You have been respectful with your arguments and its appreciated.

Per your points... I totally agree and there is a percentage of people of color finding tremendous success, some defy the odds and rise from really bad circumstances and others are born with wealth and opportunity. Many white kids are born into bad situations and many in good situations that blow it. Some face racial discrimination and others don't. I'm not speaking to individuals i'm trying to give perspective on what people mean when they say "white privilege". I think it's important to understand and recognize the chain reaction that has happened through generations of oppression that has now resulted in a high poverty and low "success" situation amongst a large percentage of blacks. You can still acknowledge the reality of that situation and not support government programs or additional laws/regulations that favor African Americans. It is possible for you to say, yeah, slavery was shitty, and it sucks that it took till the 60's to allow blacks to vote, and I see how the generations of oppression and lingering instances of racism that still exist have put a large percentage of black people in a hole making it harder for them to succeed. You can recognize all of that and still hold conservative views on government programs and assistance. I just don't understand why people outright deny that these "disadvantages" are real.

I think its a cop out when black people use it as an excuse to not work, when they have extra babies so they can collect more from the government, when they intentionally do not seek work because they are fine living off the government and think they are owed a check. I don't support any of that entitled crap, but I still understand what they mean when the say "white privilege"

Yes, we all don't start from the same place. Some have harder rows to hoe. It is no different in athletics either in that not all athletes have the same level of athletic talent. Yet, some with lesser talent out perform those with greater talent. I don't deny history or the suffering of others. I deny using that as an excuse because it is a self fulfilling prophecy. It does them no good to do so and only serves to keep them in bondage.

 

[Slade3200]

That the history of our nation in regards to the oppression of the black race has led to socioeconomic disadvantages that are still being felt today

That sounds exactly like what I have been talking about. Let's make an excuse for why they can blame someone else for their failure to adapt, improvise and overcome. You do realize that the only ones holding them back are themselves, right?

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

Now to make my point... people who blame external sources for their failures - like I could not succeed because I was disadvantaged - only serve to keep themselves from accepting the accountability of their actions and learn from their mistakes. They are literally transferring their power to an external source and preventing themselves from controlling their own destinies. Not all behaviors lead to successful outcomes. At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices. Skin color has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

I agree

 

[ding]

That sounds exactly like what I have been talking about. Let's make an excuse for why they can blame someone else for their failure to adapt, improvise and overcome. You do realize that the only ones holding them back are themselves, right?

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

Now to make my point... people who blame external sources for their failures - like I could not succeed because I was disadvantaged - only serve to keep themselves from accepting the accountability of their actions and learn from their mistakes. They are literally transferring their power to an external source and preventing themselves from controlling their own destinies. Not all behaviors lead to successful outcomes. At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices. Skin color has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

I agree

Ok, so what good comes from pushing a victim mentality that will only serve as an excuse for failure?

Let's say your kid has a teacher that doesn't like him and is hard on him. Would you counsel him that it was ok to fail because it was unfair? Or would you counsel him to study so hard that it would not be possible for the teacher to grade him harshly?

 

[Slade3200]

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

How have I insulted you? What exactly have I written that was an insult?

And no, you have not made yourself clear to me. Maybe you are confusing your conversation with someone else. I'm not reading those. I'm just reading the ones directed at me.

I don't see skin color affecting generations of successful outcomes. I see human behaviors as the foundation for passing down successful behaviors as the foundation of successful outcomes. That's exactly how natural selection works too. In fact, there are examples of people of color doing exactly that. Why is it that theye were able to do it and others weren't. And the converse also applies, not all whites have had generational success. The answer for both is simple. The ones who have succeeded did so because they practiced successful behaviors and the ones that didn't practiced failed behaviors.

Apologies, I got you confused with one of the other Yahoos that have been in this conversation who have been pumping out the petty insults. You have been respectful with your arguments and its appreciated.

Per your points... I totally agree and there is a percentage of people of color finding tremendous success, some defy the odds and rise from really bad circumstances and others are born with wealth and opportunity. Many white kids are born into bad situations and many in good situations that blow it. Some face racial discrimination and others don't. I'm not speaking to individuals i'm trying to give perspective on what people mean when they say "white privilege". I think it's important to understand and recognize the chain reaction that has happened through generations of oppression that has now resulted in a high poverty and low "success" situation amongst a large percentage of blacks. You can still acknowledge the reality of that situation and not support government programs or additional laws/regulations that favor African Americans. It is possible for you to say, yeah, slavery was shitty, and it sucks that it took till the 60's to allow blacks to vote, and I see how the generations of oppression and lingering instances of racism that still exist have put a large percentage of black people in a hole making it harder for them to succeed. You can recognize all of that and still hold conservative views on government programs and assistance. I just don't understand why people outright deny that these "disadvantages" are real.

I think its a cop out when black people use it as an excuse to not work, when they have extra babies so they can collect more from the government, when they intentionally do not seek work because they are fine living off the government and think they are owed a check. I don't support any of that entitled crap, but I still understand what they mean when the say "white privilege"

Yes, we all don't start from the same place. Some have harder rows to hoe. It is no different in athletics either in that not all athletes have the same level of athletic talent. Yet, some with lesser talent out perform those with greater talent. I don't deny history or the suffering of others. I deny using that as an excuse because it is a self fulfilling prophecy. It does them no good to do so and only serves to keep them in bondage.

Again, I agree with you, and I don't condone using it as an excuse. I think from a leadership and socioeconomic perspective the "white privilege" situation should be understood and not ignored. Many poor black people do use it as an excuse and many abuse our welfare system instead of taking personal responsibly.

You are probably lucky enough to have been taught good personal responsibility skills and discipline from your parents who probably learned it from their parents. Maybe not, maybe you are one of the few that fought through a tough upbringing and learned those lessons yourself, but the majority of people are a product of their upbringing. When you have a large percentage of children being raised by single mothers on welfare, who don't even have college or a career on their radar, it makes it a lot tougher for them to learn to be personally responsibly. My girl worked in the lowest income school district in Minneapolis and saw these problems face to face. So perhaps we recognize that mindset, and the culture that has developed and focus a different kind of curriculum in their schools and more community programs to show them that they do have opportunity and teach them a better way to think about things.

 

[Slade3200]

I don't think being ignored by the group that has benefitted from their disadvantages helps things. I'm not advocating that we need to really do much at all. I think we've done a good job making the playing field fair, however empathy and understanding of the situation is going to help things much more than the denial and debate like we are engaged in. With the right kind of campaign and mindset it is possible to take the excuses and turn the situation into a motivating force

How exactly have I benefited? And how have people of color been disadvantaged? It seems to me that people of color want to immigrate here because they have better opportunities here than where they are from. Do you judge the worth of people by the color of their skin or the quality of their character?

Have you not listened to a word i've said. I"m not going to keep repeating myself. This isn't about the "individual" it is a socioeconomic condition that has resulted from a long history of oppression. It effects many and it doesn't effect many. You try to insult me for using simple analogies yet you still fail to understand my message. I don't care if you agree or not, but from your responses you display an utter lack of understanding.

I'll try one more time to give as simple of an example as I can. What percentage of white people do you think are third generation doctors, lawyers, business owners or inheritors of wealth? What percentage of black people? The answer should be obvious. If you really don't think that a family's history/economic position has an effect education, opportunity, social development, etc. on the socioeconomic condition of blacks vs. whites then you need to learn more about sociology.

Now to make my point... people who blame external sources for their failures - like I could not succeed because I was disadvantaged - only serve to keep themselves from accepting the accountability of their actions and learn from their mistakes. They are literally transferring their power to an external source and preventing themselves from controlling their own destinies. Not all behaviors lead to successful outcomes. At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices. Skin color has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

I agree

Ok, so what good comes from pushing a victim mentality that will only serve as an excuse for failure?

Let's say your kid has a teacher that doesn't like him and is hard on him. Would you counsel him that it was ok to fail because it was unfair? Or would you counsel him to study so hard that it would not be possible for the teacher to grade him harshly?

I would teach him how to achieve success in face of adversity... I wouldn't ignore the fact that the teacher was being hard on him and that it was a cause of hardship or even unfair discrimination. I would recognize that it was an issue and help him prevail in spite of the circumstances.