Which side do you come down on

[noose4]

Specifically what do you find anti-American about the following:

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

there is no reason for it, these tim mcveigh wannabes have taken the oath no reason to form a group stating that you are going to live up to it, that is already implied upon your taking of the oath.

There's no resaon for it so that makes it anti-American?

You keep referencing Tim MCveigh, can you link him to this specific group?

like already stated this group puts forth the same rhetoric timothy mcveigh put forth, for those of us in the thinking community we can see the similarities.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

there is no reason for it, these tim mcveigh wannabes have taken the oath no reason to form a group stating that you are going to live up to it, that is already implied upon your taking of the oath.

There's no resaon for it so that makes it anti-American?

You keep referencing Tim MCveigh, can you link him to this specific group?

like already stated this group puts forth the same rhetoric timothy mcveigh put forth, for those of us in the thinking community we can see the similarities.

Then please provide a copy of McVeighs rhetoric.

 

[noose4]

Link?

there is a link already in this thread, you are one of the tim mcveigh types that would join a group like this so you will disagree with any link posted.

I've seen no such link. Now back up your claim that I or any member of the Oath Keepers possess the same mentality as McVeigh.

Fact is you have more in common with McVeigh than I do.

horseshit, you and the oath keepers see some kind of threat to the constitution due to the election of President Obama, the same stupid wack job right wing paranoia that spurred tim mcveigh to blow up the fed building in oklahoma during clinton's presidency, like already stated for those of us in the thinking community it is very transparent.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I looked their website over and didn't see anything racial or partisan about this organization, while the "Southern Poverty Law Center" looks like an Acorn offshoot.

Right or wrong, the SPLC has been around a long time and they're no ACORN offshoot.

AND VIRTUALLY BLIND TO ISLAM AND JIHAD HATE MOVEMENTS
SPLCenter.org: Search

SPLCenter.org: Search

THEY ONLY SEEM TO NOTICE JIHAD WHEN IT (ISLAM/JIHAD)GETS MIXED UP WITH OTHER GROUPS OR IS SPOKEN OF IN A NEGATIVE LIGHT.

 

[noose4]

There's no resaon for it so that makes it anti-American?

You keep referencing Tim MCveigh, can you link him to this specific group?

like already stated this group puts forth the same rhetoric timothy mcveigh put forth, for those of us in the thinking community we can see the similarities.

Then please provide a copy of McVeighs rhetoric.

okee dokee

The Timothy McVeigh Story: The Oklahoma Bomber - Crime Library on truTV.com

Sensing that the rights of the group to bear arms were being violated, McVeigh headed for Waco to lend support and make a few bucks at the same time. He stocked up on items he could hand out or sell including anti-government leaflets and bumper stickers bearing messages like "Politicians Love Gun Control," "Fear the Government That Fears Your Gun," "A Man With a Gun Is A Citizen, A Man Without A Gun Is A Subject. When he arrived, he wanted to see the compound where the standoff was continuing, but agents blocked his way. When he returned to an area where he could park and distribute his wares, student reporter Michelle Rauch talked McVeigh into an interview.

He told Rauch, "The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people," and "The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful, and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control."

When McVeigh arrived at the Nichols' Decker, Michigan farm, the reports coming out of Waco dominated the airwaves. In between watching the standoff on TV, the Nichols brothers introduced Tim to the art of making explosives out of readily available materials. Tim was interested, but not yet ready to act on the information. Then, on April 19, 1993 they watched in horror as the Branch Davidians' compound was battered and burned into oblivion.

This so outraged McVeigh and Nichols that they decided someone had to stop the ATF. Someone would have to make a stand.

The Timothy McVeigh Story: The Oklahoma Bomber - Crime Library on truTV.com

On September 13, 1994 the gun shows McVeigh attended had become somber occasions. New laws had been passed to stop the manufacture of many types of weaponry, including a range of semi-automatic rifles and handguns. Gun traders and buyers alike were outraged to learn the government was controlling their "right to bear arms".

To McVeigh, it also meant his livelihood was endangered. He had been buying weapons under his own name and charging a brokerage fee to other buyers those who didn't want their names on government forms.

Paranoia rose on rumors that owners would be subject to surprise searches of their homes and businesses. McVeigh decided that action could no longer be postponed. From the Nichols home in Marion, Kansas, he wrote Fortier. He insisted the time had come for action, and he wanted Fortier to join him and Terry Nichols in their protest. Imitating The Turner Diaries, they planned to blow up a federal building. McVeigh cautioned Fortier against telling his wife Lori an instruction Fortier ignored.

In mid-October 1994, McVeigh's plans were suddenly complicated, when he received news his grandfather had died. He headed home to Pendleton, New York. There, he helped sort out his grandfather's estate and further poisoned his young sister against the government. She recalls how they watched a composite tape on Waco, which cast the ATF in the worst possible light. He also explained he had moved from the propaganda to "action" stage. He also used Jennifer's word processor to compose a letter titled "ATF Read." It denounced government agents as "fascist tyrants" and "storm troopers" who had better be ready to pay for their actions at Waco. It warned the ATF, "all you tyrannical mother fuckers will swing in the wind one day for your treasonous actions against the Constitution of the United States."

He was dressed for the mission in his favorite T-shirt. On the front was a picture of Abraham Lincoln with the motto "sic semper tyrannis," the words Booth shouted before he shot Lincoln. The translation: Thus ever to tyrants. On the back of the T-shirt was a tree with blood dripping from the branches. It read, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

if mcveigh was around today he would join the oath keepers.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

there is a link already in this thread, you are one of the tim mcveigh types that would join a group like this so you will disagree with any link posted.

I've seen no such link. Now back up your claim that I or any member of the Oath Keepers possess the same mentality as McVeigh.

Fact is you have more in common with McVeigh than I do.

horseshit, you and the oath keepers see some kind of threat to the constitution due to the election of President Obama, the same stupid wack job right wing paranoia that spurred tim mcveigh to blow up the fed building in oklahoma during clinton's presidency, like already stated for those of us in the thinking community it is very transparent.

Wow you talk about making assumptions!

Now provide evidence that I and the Oath Keepers see Obama as a threat to the constitution. And then provide Mcveighs opinion, since you seem to know how he thinks.

Fact is Mcveigh bombed the federal building to avenge the deaths two years earlier of Branch Davidians near Waco, Texas, whom he believed had been murdered by agents of the federal government.

 

[eagleseven]

horseshit, you and the oath keepers see some kind of threat to the constitution due to the election of President Obama, the same stupid wack job right wing paranoia that spurred tim mcveigh to blow up the fed building in oklahoma during clinton's presidency, like already stated for those of us in the thinking community it is very transparent.

I don't see the Oath Keepers advocating violence anywhere. In fact, it seems they are pledging to avoid violence in the homeland.

How could a soldier vowing "To never harm American civilians" bomb innocent people?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

like already stated this group puts forth the same rhetoric timothy mcveigh put forth, for those of us in the thinking community we can see the similarities.

Then please provide a copy of McVeighs rhetoric.

okee dokee

The Timothy McVeigh Story: The Oklahoma Bomber - Crime Library on truTV.com


No


The Timothy McVeigh Story: The Oklahoma Bomber - Crime Library on truTV.com

In mid-October 1994, McVeigh's plans were suddenly complicated, when he received news his grandfather had died. He headed home to Pendleton, New York. There, he helped sort out his grandfather's estate and further poisoned his young sister against the government. She recalls how they watched a composite tape on Waco, which cast the ATF in the worst possible light. He also explained he had moved from the propaganda to "action" stage. He also used Jennifer's word processor to compose a letter titled "ATF Read." It denounced government agents as "fascist tyrants" and "storm troopers" who had better be ready to pay for their actions at Waco. It warned the ATF, "all you tyrannical mother fuckers will swing in the wind one day for your treasonous actions against the Constitution of the United States."

He was dressed for the mission in his favorite T-shirt. On the front was a picture of Abraham Lincoln with the motto "sic semper tyrannis," the words Booth shouted before he shot Lincoln. The translation: Thus ever to tyrants. On the back of the T-shirt was a tree with blood dripping from the branches. It read, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

if mcveigh was around today he would join the oath keepers.

I don't see any similarities in this story and the Oathkeepers pledge. Bottom line here is ... you fail!!

 

[Ringel05]

There's no resaon for it so that makes it anti-American?

You keep referencing Tim MCveigh, can you link him to this specific group?

like already stated this group puts forth the same rhetoric timothy mcveigh put forth, for those of us in the thinking community we can see the similarities.

Then please provide a copy of McVeighs rhetoric.

He used an article to prove his point that I showed the article did just the opposite with my responses in posts #67 and #70. He responded to #67 but either missed or ignored #70. Essentially there is a small radical fringe element within this group that the leadership does not acknowledge and he's basing his assessment on this fringe element only.
In the article the founder explains why he did not start the movement when the Patriot Act was enacted. In my humble but accurate opinion, Noose is locked into a stereotyping of this organization based on his own misinformed bias. Sorry Noose but that's the only way I see it.

 

[noose4]

I've seen no such link. Now back up your claim that I or any member of the Oath Keepers possess the same mentality as McVeigh.

Fact is you have more in common with McVeigh than I do.

horseshit, you and the oath keepers see some kind of threat to the constitution due to the election of President Obama, the same stupid wack job right wing paranoia that spurred tim mcveigh to blow up the fed building in oklahoma during clinton's presidency, like already stated for those of us in the thinking community it is very transparent.

Wow you talk about making assumptions!

Now provide evidence that I and the Oath Keepers see Obama as a threat to the constitution. And then provide Mcveighs opinion, since you seem to know how he thinks.

Fact is Mcveigh bombed the federal building to avenge the deaths two years earlier of Branch Davidians near Waco, Texas, whom he believed had been murdered by agents of the federal government.

you dont pay much attention do you? the whole reason for this anti American group is all the Obama as hitler, Obama will confiscate your guns and take your rights and fema concentration camp rhetoric flowing from the right wing, it doesnt take a genius to see that.

and duhh what are the oath keepers going to do when they think the government goes too far? nothing? then why have the group in the first place if they are going to do nothing?

 

[noose4]

Then please provide a copy of McVeighs rhetoric.

okee dokee

The Timothy McVeigh Story: The Oklahoma Bomber - Crime Library on truTV.com


No


The Timothy McVeigh Story: The Oklahoma Bomber - Crime Library on truTV.com

He was dressed for the mission in his favorite T-shirt. On the front was a picture of Abraham Lincoln with the motto "sic semper tyrannis," the words Booth shouted before he shot Lincoln. The translation: Thus ever to tyrants. On the back of the T-shirt was a tree with blood dripping from the branches. It read, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

if mcveigh was around today he would join the oath keepers.

I don't see any similarities in this story and the Oathkeepers pledge. Bottom line here is ... you fail!!

if you see no similarities then you truly are dumber than a bag of rocks.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

SPLCenter.org: Prejudice in Paradise
They can find the hate in Hawaii, but none in Islam or jihad groups

 

[Si modo]

horseshit, you and the oath keepers see some kind of threat to the constitution due to the election of President Obama, the same stupid wack job right wing paranoia that spurred tim mcveigh to blow up the fed building in oklahoma during clinton's presidency, like already stated for those of us in the thinking community it is very transparent.

Wow you talk about making assumptions!

Now provide evidence that I and the Oath Keepers see Obama as a threat to the constitution. And then provide Mcveighs opinion, since you seem to know how he thinks.

Fact is Mcveigh bombed the federal building to avenge the deaths two years earlier of Branch Davidians near Waco, Texas, whom he believed had been murdered by agents of the federal government.

you dont pay much attention do you? the whole reason for this anti American group is all the Obama as hitler, Obama will confiscate your guns and take your rights and fema concentration camp rhetoric flowing from the right wing, it doesnt take a genius to see that.

and duhh what are the oath keepers going to do when they think the government goes too far? nothing? then why have the group in the first place if they are going to do nothing?

Anti-American group? The Oathkeepers? LMFAO.

 

[noose4]

like already stated this group puts forth the same rhetoric timothy mcveigh put forth, for those of us in the thinking community we can see the similarities.

Then please provide a copy of McVeighs rhetoric.

He used an article to prove his point that I showed the article did just the opposite with my responses in posts #67 and #70. He responded to #67 but either missed or ignored #70. Essentially there is a small radical fringe element within this group that the leadership does not acknowledge and he's basing his assessment on this fringe element only.
In the article the founder explains why he did not start the movement when the Patriot Act was enacted. In my humble but accurate opinion, Noose is locked into a stereotyping of this organization based on his own misinformed bias. Sorry Noose but that's the only way I see it.

once again the timing of this groups coming together speaks volumes.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

like already stated this group puts forth the same rhetoric timothy mcveigh put forth, for those of us in the thinking community we can see the similarities.

Then please provide a copy of McVeighs rhetoric.

He used an article to prove his point that I showed the article did just the opposite with my responses in posts #67 and #70. He responded to #67 but either missed or ignored #70. Essentially there is a small radical fringe element within this group that the leadership does not acknowledge and he's basing his assessment on this fringe element only.
In the article the founder explains why he did not start the movement when the Patriot Act was enacted. In my humble but accurate opinion, Noose is locked into a stereotyping of this organization based on his own misinformed bias. Sorry Noose but that's the only way I see it.

I had a guy use an Amazon book review as his proof.

 

[noose4]

horseshit, you and the oath keepers see some kind of threat to the constitution due to the election of President Obama, the same stupid wack job right wing paranoia that spurred tim mcveigh to blow up the fed building in oklahoma during clinton's presidency, like already stated for those of us in the thinking community it is very transparent.

I don't see the Oath Keepers advocating violence anywhere. In fact, it seems they are pledging to avoid violence in the homeland.

How could a soldier vowing "To never harm American civilians" bomb innocent people?

just how exactly are they going to "defend" the constitution when they see things going against it? just sit on the side lines while others destroy the constitution or will they fight for what they believe is right? if they decide to fight are you saying no innocents will be hurt? mcveigh took action when he thought the constitution was not being adhered to and plenty of innocents died.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

horseshit, you and the oath keepers see some kind of threat to the constitution due to the election of President Obama, the same stupid wack job right wing paranoia that spurred tim mcveigh to blow up the fed building in oklahoma during clinton's presidency, like already stated for those of us in the thinking community it is very transparent.

Wow you talk about making assumptions!

Now provide evidence that I and the Oath Keepers see Obama as a threat to the constitution. And then provide Mcveighs opinion, since you seem to know how he thinks.

Fact is Mcveigh bombed the federal building to avenge the deaths two years earlier of Branch Davidians near Waco, Texas, whom he believed had been murdered by agents of the federal government.

you dont pay much attention do you? the whole reason for this anti American group is all the Obama as hitler, Obama will confiscate your guns and take your rights and fema concentration camp rhetoric flowing from the right wing, it doesnt take a genius to see that.

and duhh what are the oath keepers going to do when they think the government goes too far? nothing? then why have the group in the first place if they are going to do nothing?

Prove what you claim!

 

[noose4]

Wow you talk about making assumptions!

Now provide evidence that I and the Oath Keepers see Obama as a threat to the constitution. And then provide Mcveighs opinion, since you seem to know how he thinks.

Fact is Mcveigh bombed the federal building to avenge the deaths two years earlier of Branch Davidians near Waco, Texas, whom he believed had been murdered by agents of the federal government.

you dont pay much attention do you? the whole reason for this anti American group is all the Obama as hitler, Obama will confiscate your guns and take your rights and fema concentration camp rhetoric flowing from the right wing, it doesnt take a genius to see that.

and duhh what are the oath keepers going to do when they think the government goes too far? nothing? then why have the group in the first place if they are going to do nothing?

Prove what you claim!

LEARN HOW TO THINK!!!

 

[Godboy]

Should they also remove the American flag from their shoulder?

I told you earlier, maybe you go there and ask them to remove it?

Because of those like you I support them wearing those patches. You know why? Because there are no loons like you in a war zone demanding they take them off.

the American flag is an authorized patch the oathkeeper one is not, how hard is that for you to understand? and for the record i served in the military and while i was there i would have confronted anybody that belonged to a radical group like this one, and at least in the Marine Corps it was forbidden to make political statements while wearing the uniform so if the same holds true for the Army the guy in that uniform is breaking his oath by disobeying a lawful orderso so much for being an oath keeper,and as far as the war zone goes i am guessing you have never been in the position to even have the possibility of going to one.

You're guessing. Where does it say it's not authorized?

No, actually YOU are guessing. You have obviously never served in the military, otherwise you wouldnt question this at all. I dont know how else to tell you that there is a strict standard with military uniforms, and "oath taker" patches, or any other patch you care to mention are NOT allowed, not EVER. Ask any person you know thats ever served in the military, and they will say what the rest of us have been saying... they arent allowed.

You say Oathkeepers are radical group. I say they are patriots.

In the military, the chain of command ends at the Commander in Chief (the president). The oath takers are specifically about resisting the president should he decide to make a few unwanted changes, therefore this group is unpatriotic by default. You dont resist the Commander in Chief.

Even though President Clinton was despised by military personell for allowing gay people to serve under his "dont ask dont tell" policy, they always gave him the respect the commander in chief deserves. The oath takers do not respect the pres, therefore i dont respect them. It pleases me to know that there must have been many of these clowns that got in serious trouble for wearing those stupid patches.

Im a republican by the way, so this isnt about me trying to ram liberal ideology down your throat. Obama is the top dog, therefore all military personell should respect him as such no matter what they think about his politics.

Oath to defend the constitution is no more political statement then Oath to defend America.

These man who swore to defend the Constitution above their Oath of Enlistment probably did it because they see that direction where country is going is not called in the Constitution. Those things the oath talks about have not taken place. The oath doesn't say they have, but insinuate they might in the future. What the oath says is, if they are called upon in the future to do any of those things they will refuse to do so. Soldiers may not use the excuse, "I was just following orders.", if they feel an order is immoral or a war crime. There have been prosecutions for obeying such orders in the past. Since soldiers have been prosecuted for following illegal orders in the past it seems only prudent that they let it be known in advance that they will not follow those orders in the future.

To make it simple, it's a warning.

.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

you dont pay much attention do you? the whole reason for this anti American group is all the Obama as hitler, Obama will confiscate your guns and take your rights and fema concentration camp rhetoric flowing from the right wing, it doesnt take a genius to see that.

and duhh what are the oath keepers going to do when they think the government goes too far? nothing? then why have the group in the first place if they are going to do nothing?

Prove what you claim!

LEARN HOW TO THINK!!!

Your concession is duly noted.


Oh by the way, I THINK you're a fucking idiot!



I take that back.. I don't think you're an idiot



I KNOW you are an idiot!