Which is it? CDZ Poll and Discussion

[Chuz Life]

Mod note: Hot retail political topics still warring on the boards are NEVER good CDZ topics.. And there are a dozens of threads ALREADY open and active on this topic..

CDZ Rules apply.

Please vote in the poll and then let's have a discussion about the EVIDENCE between these two specific topics.

1. The evidence that supports the (Left's) claim that the 2016 Presidential Election was corrupt and stolen from the Dems, because of Russian influence and Trump's alleged "collusion" WITH Russia.

2. The evidence that supports the (Right's) claim that the 2020Presidential Election was corrupted by voter fraud, manipulation of the polls, rigged voter machines, etc.

 

[Erinwltr]

Clean Debate Zone. Move along.

As of Dec 21, 2020.

Trump and his allies filed more than 40 lawsuits challenging the 2020 election results. All of them failed.

Since Donald Trump lost in November 2020, Republicans have filed dozens of lawsuits challenging the presidential election results. They've won zero.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Chuz Life]

Evidence of 2020 Presidential Election voter fraud.

2020 Election Fraud Evidence Compiled

Stone Cold Truth

stonecoldtruth.com

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Simply by virtue that an investigation was conducted and Mueller concluded that the Russians did interfere with the 2016 election, I voted for more evidence in 2016 although I'm not comfortable referring to either as "corrupt".

 

[Chuz Life]

PolitiFact weighs in.

Fact-checking the integrity of the vote in 2016

"With the election that close, PolitiFact has been fact-checking claims about the integrity of the vote. We found that claims about voter fraud are for the most part overblown or unfounded."

Voting wasn’t rigged <-----------

 

[Chuz Life]

Simply by virtue that an investigation was conducted and Mueller concluded that the Russians did interfere with the 2016 election, I voted for more evidence in 2016 although I'm not comfortable referring to either as "corrupt".

The poll is about whether or not the elections were / are CORRUPT.

You voted that the 2016 election was corrupt.

FWIW, you can change your vote at any time.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Evidence of 2020 Presidential Election voter fraud.

2020 Election Fraud Evidence Compiled

Stone Cold Truth

stonecoldtruth.com

Are you sure that CDZ is a place to post that link? There is a reason that almost all of the original cite links were deleted. They are false. One of the reasons that 230 exists is to allow the internet to police itself instead of the Government (who is really, really bad at it) to censor all of us. You want your cites to be generally repeated on Social Media, tell the truth. It saves everyone a lot of time and money.

 

[gipper]

Simply by virtue that an investigation was conducted and Mueller concluded that the Russians did interfere with the 2016 election, I voted for more evidence in 2016 although I'm not comfortable referring to either as "corrupt".

Mueller...lmfao.

 

[alang1216]

CDZ Rules apply.

Please vote in the poll and then let's have a discussion about the EVIDENCE between these two specific topics.

1. The evidence that supports the (Left's) claim that the 2016 Presidential Election was corrupt and stolen from the Dems, because of Russian influence and Trump's alleged "collusion" WITH Russia.

2. The evidence that supports the (Right's) claim that the 2020Presidential Election was corrupted by voter fraud, manipulation of the polls, rigged voter machines, etc.

2016 - The election was influenced, not 'corrupted' by Russian hacking and likely by many other players too. Trump claimed that illegals voted in large numbers and created a commission to look into the charge. They found no such evidence and quietly disbanded.

2020 - Most of the evidence I've seen faults the process: rule changes, too few machines, long waits, misdirected ballots, typos, etc. I haven't seen, and AG Barr and the cyber security agency agrees, whatever fraud took place did not affect the outcome of the election.

 

[candycorn]

CDZ Rules apply.

Please vote in the poll and then let's have a discussion about the EVIDENCE between these two specific topics.

1. The evidence that supports the (Left's) claim that the 2016 Presidential Election was corrupt and stolen from the Dems, because of Russian influence and Trump's alleged "collusion" WITH Russia.

2. The evidence that supports the (Right's) claim that the 2020Presidential Election was corrupted by voter fraud, manipulation of the polls, rigged voter machines, etc.

Mueller's Report Shows All The Ways Russia Interfered In 2016 Presidential Election

Special counsel Robert Mueller's report lays out all of the ways in which Russia interfered in the 2016 election, including hacking Democrats' emails and using social media to mobilize U.S. citizens.

www.npr.org

AG Barr (who would have had a big interest in investigating fraud in 2020) said there was none.

 

[White 6]

CDZ Rules apply.

Please vote in the poll and then let's have a discussion about the EVIDENCE between these two specific topics.

1. The evidence that supports the (Left's) claim that the 2016 Presidential Election was corrupt and stolen from the Dems, because of Russian influence and Trump's alleged "collusion" WITH Russia.

2. The evidence that supports the (Right's) claim that the 2020Presidential Election was corrupted by voter fraud, manipulation of the polls, rigged voter machines, etc.

Neither one. That is why real Americans supported the voted outcome of both elections, whether they liked the outcome or not.

 

[rightwinger]

There is no evidence that either election was corrupt

Democrats never claimed the 2016 election was corrupt (Trump did). They claimed it was unfairly influenced by James Comey and Russian influences

There is no evidence that 2020 election was corrupt

 

[Mr Natural]

No evidence.

You lost, move on.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Politics (source Wikipedia):

(from Greek: Πολιτικά, politiká, 'affairs of the cities') is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations between individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status. The academic study of politics is referred to as political science.

Corrupt (source Google "Definitions from Oxford Languages"):

adjective

1. 1.
   having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
   "unscrupulous logging companies assisted by corrupt officials"

The two (politics and corruption) are logically inseparable given time. Not that running for office is inherently corrupt. Politicians just naturally grow more corrupt once exposed to corrupt people and influences (private capital) daily. So much so that overall the whole inevitably becomes largely corrupt. A great way to ensure and increase the rate of this corruption is then to only allow the greater public a choice between highly corrupt people / parties / evils. The set up of this topic is exemplary.

 

[blackhawk]

There is cheating and corruption in every election to some degree including the 2016 and 2020 elections but I don’t feel it swayed the outcome in either.

 

[Donald H]

There is cheating and corruption in every election to some degree including the 2016 and 2020 elections but I don’t feel it swayed the outcome in either.

Surprising clarity!

Maybe a few close races though.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Simply by virtue that an investigation was conducted and Mueller concluded that the Russians did interfere with the 2016 election, I voted for more evidence in 2016 although I'm not comfortable referring to either as "corrupt".

The poll is about whether or not the elections were / are CORRUPT.

You voted that the 2016 election was corrupt.

FWIW, you can change your vote at any time.

Considering there isn't a third choice, we are left with only those two. And when you use the word Corrupt, that opens up a lot of things. Now if you had used the word Fraud and included a third choice of "Peach, Cream and Root Beer" chances are, we would all be having dessert right about now.

 

[Coyote]

Mod note: Hot retail political topics still warring on the boards are NEVER good CDZ topics.. And there are a dozens of threads ALREADY open and active on this topic..

CDZ Rules apply.

Please vote in the poll and then let's have a discussion about the EVIDENCE between these two specific topics.

1. The evidence that supports the (Left's) claim that the 2016 Presidential Election was corrupt and stolen from the Dems, because of Russian influence and Trump's alleged "collusion" WITH Russia.

2. The evidence that supports the (Right's) claim that the 2020Presidential Election was corrupted by voter fraud, manipulation of the polls, rigged voter machines, etc.

I don't recall the left (as in the Dem politicians and mainstream) claiming the 2016 election was "corrupt". That's kind of a non-starter right off the bat.

#2 is just baseless. Zero evidence.

 

[Coyote]

There is cheating and corruption in every election to some degree including the 2016 and 2020 elections but I don’t feel it swayed the outcome in either.

Agree. There is always small time fraud and corruption in anything political.

 

[Coyote]

PolitiFact weighs in.

Fact-checking the integrity of the vote in 2016

"With the election that close, PolitiFact has been fact-checking claims about the integrity of the vote. We found that claims about voter fraud are for the most part overblown or unfounded."

Voting wasn’t rigged <-----------

What did they say about the 2020 election?