Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[TruthNotBS]

Actually, it is your position which is flawed. You want to establish that mere existence creates similarity which is equivalence. The text is very clear but you keep dancing around what it says in order to support your bizarre connection.

Except only God is "the savior" though others have a role in helping effect God's saving his people

No, you showed verses that show that others are assigned the role of bringing about the salvation that comes from God. I showed you that textually and you just don't like it. So you create "levels" like "absolute source" so you can support your claims. But those are purely your invention. Then you claim that other gods exist. They don't. But you need to believe that they do. That's fine -- you do that.

So, again, you fall back to the general "in terms of existence I am like God" except that even in that, you aren't. Your sentience is not comparable to God's. Your existence is totally unlike God's. So even on the most general level, there is no one like God. You can keep playing your word games if it makes you happy.

No, as you have seen, the word there is judge or master. It has nothing to do with being a god in any sense.

That makes those people representatives who bring about God's power, but that doesn't change who they are to make them like God. Keep flailing.

Again with the false equivalence based in conflating meanings. Elohim can mean a variety of things. If in one case it means "angels" then it means that man is lower than angels. This doesn't make angels God. It is tiresome to have to keep explaining this to you, especially knowing that you will stick your fingers in your ears and pretend the facts don't exist.

Huh? Larvae? You are crossing into clear insanity now. We are created in the tzelem and d'mut of God but you should study what those words mean.

No, we aren't. Injecting more of your crazy here doesn't help your argument at all.


OK, full fledged cuckoo. I'm going to finish up this post and politely excuse myself so none of your crazy spills onto my new shirt.


Just plain nuts. You are in a world of your own, populated by free floating insanity.

I think I saw this in a couple of sci fi shows or movies. You are off the charts...

No, you attributed something to me that I didn't say and I'm calling you on it. Then I pointed out how you move from "similar" to "equivalent" in a dishonest manner. You don't like that I show the flaw explicitly. That's a you problem.

Um. Wow. NVTS

Lower than angels. Why is it so tough for you to read what I posted and instead hide behind your craziness?

Who said everyone is wrong? I intimated that YOU are wrong and yet you dismiss all the voices and experts I cite.

Clear to whom? To you and your agenda? Because all the experts over the last thousands of years don't agree with you.

No, the text uses the word elohim because it MEANS angels in some contexts.

Thanks for not answering the questions I asked and just repeating the same mistakes.


Yes, but it doesn;t say "worship" -- you stick that in there. That would be a lie on your part.

Really? I notice you didn't address the many verses I cited which use the word and don't have anything to do with worship.

Worshipping a human is idolatry.

Since you have no understanding of it, your claim of corruption is empty.

You go on with your sad and crazy world view. Keep repeating the same lies and mistakes and shouting them into your echo chamber. Someday, if you have any actual questions about Judaism because you realize how insane your contentions are, feel free to ask.

Let's choose one topic at a time. Choose one of the many topics we are debating. The meaning of Elohim, the meaning of the word for worship..etc. Choose one.

 

[irosie91]

No, it says that they are assigned the role of enacting the saving that, ultimately, God does.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. So why are you opening that sentence with "No"? You're the one playing games. You need to improve your reading comprehension skills. YHWH is the ultimate savior and all other saviors are contingent upon Him. Yes yes yes..Exactly. That's what I clearly said and for you to pretend otherwise, demonstrates who is actually "playing games" and quibbling.


You want to turn this into something it isn't because you need to so that you can build your imaginary theology.

Your theology is imaginary and inconsistent with the text. You rely on your rabbinic Jewish mythology.


Actually, you did. You cited it and quoted it. I just provided a better translation and explanation. Don't be bitter, just honest.

You're delusional.


It says Moses is a master. You said "like God to Pharaoh". Is it quibbling to point out your error? Clearly you have to think so.

In Exodus 7, the context states that Aaron is his prophet or mouthpiece. That indicates that Moses is taking the role of YHWH himself. as Elohim to Pharoah and having a prophet or mouthpiece in his service, as YHWH has his own prophets and angels. This is confirmed in Exodus 4, where YHWH says:

Exo 4:14-17 And the anger of YHWH was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. (15) And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. (16) And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God/Elohim. (17) And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs.

Exo_7:17 Thus saith YHWH, In this thou shalt know that I am YHWH: behold, I will smite with the rod that is in mine hand upon the waters which are in the river, and they shall be turned to blood.

The hand of YHWH is the hand of Moses and is the hand of Aaron. A hierarchy of action beginning from above (top-down). Moses is acting, functioning as the hand of YHWH, and Aaron is the prophet of Moses. That's the biblical law of agency, which is expressed through human beings and angels. Moses wasn't literally, ontologically YHWH, but is functioning on His behalf, hence can be identified with Him. This offends you, but it's found throughout the TaNaK.

The entity or place that YHWH inhabits, that He imbues with His glory and imminent presence takes His character and identity. Even the Ark Of The Covenant took the Name of YHWH:

2Sa_6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of YHWH of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

YHWH in a way imbues the object and place where the Ark is present with His Name. He dwells there, in a way that we don't have to clearly understand or define. The text clearly states that YHWH dwells there between the cherubims and that His Name is there.


No, not identified. The word "elohim" can mean any of those things. You are coming at it backwards.

Elohim means a spiritual power, or mighty power that can affect the physical world. YHWH is the Elohim par excellence and the angels are also elohim, in a finite sense. They are gods, little g. YHWH is capital G, "Big G" = GOD. There is the non-contingent and the contingent. The necessary being and the unnecessary being that depends upon the necessary. In philosophy, a "being" can be a sentient entity or any existing object irrespective of whether it's conscious or not.

You claim to be literate in biblical Hebrew and yet you make the simple mistake of stating that the word for "prostration" in Hebrew doesn't mean worship. It means that throughout the Hebrew Bible. The act of prostration is the very definition of worship in biblical Hebrew. Perhaps you just know Yiddish, not Hebrew. You're confusing Yiddish and modern Israeli Hebrew with biblical Hebrew.

He confuses "LITERATE" with.....google

 

[rosends]

Let's choose one topic at a time. Choose one of the many topics we are debating. The meaning of Elohim, the meaning of the word for worship..etc. Choose one.

There is no value to this -- aside from the fact that I have already proven points (with sources and corroboration) in regards to these two topics, just look at how you present them

1. "The meaning of Elohim" -- you have already conceded that the word means different things, including "angels" but then you ignore meaning and say that the text "identifies" angels as elohim as if "elohim" is a word external to angels.

2. "the meaning of the word for worship" -- that doesn't make any sense. The word for worship is the word for worship. It means worship. The problem is that you ignore the meaning of the word וישתחוו and all the places where it is not translated as "worship" (including translations you cited) and say it indicates worship.

You don't even know what you are claiming, so how can you ever hope to debate it? You also start with a central misunderstanding about Judaism which makes any conversation impossible. This all coupled with the unsubstantiated theology you have invented and the lack of demonstrable authority you have shown which would validate any of your personal claims would make any debate worthless. Go, live your life and I hope you successfully evolve from a larvae into an angel while you believe in your many gods.

 

[BreezeWood]

- aside from the fact that I have already proven points (with sources and corroboration)

you only mimic the forgeries and fallacies embed in your deliberately construed 10000 page documents used for the sole purpose of your own self enrichment ...

- provide the tablets claimed by the liar moses or the conclaive representing their writings that have 10 commandments etched in the heavens or remove them from all three desert religion documents.

 

[rosends]

you only mimic the forgeries and fallacies embed in your deliberately construed 10000 page documents used for the sole purpose of your own self enrichment ...

- provide the tablets claimed by the liar moses or the conclaive representing their writings that have 10 commandments etched in the heavens or remove them from all three desert religion documents.

so if I cite authorities, I am just "mimicking forgeries." And if I can't produce the actual 2 tablets you want them "removed"? It doesn't work like that. Sorry you don't like reality. Good luck!

 

[BreezeWood]

so if I cite authorities, I am just "mimicking forgeries." And if I can't produce the actual 2 tablets you want them "removed"? It doesn't work like that. Sorry you don't like reality. Good luck!

that is the claim of judiasm - etched tablets from the heavens w/ 10 commandments ... used to persecute and victimize the innocent - to the present day.

is the realities of rosends lies and misrepresentation of a reality of their own self serving, selfish makings.

 

[rosends]

that is the claim of judiasm - etched tablets from the heavens w/ 10 commandments ... used to persecute and victimize the innocent - to the present day.

is the realities of rosends lies and misrepresentation of a reality of their own self serving, selfish makings.

so you feel persecuted by the claim that the 10 commandments existed. OK. You reality is based in a persecution complex and yet the fact is, people don't care about you enough to persecute you.

 

[BreezeWood]

so you feel persecuted by the claim that the 10 commandments existed. OK. You reality is based in a persecution complex and yet the fact is, people don't care about you enough to persecute you.

you are vindictive, as most desert worshipers ...

its the lie you teach to children, etched in the heavens - enticing an evil using providence deceitfully to gain their favor ... same as using jesus who died for liberation theology, self determination the opposite portrayed in the c-bible of servitude.

 

[TruthNotBS]

There is no value to this -- aside from the fact that I have already proven points (with sources and corroboration) in regards to these two topics, just look at how you present them

1. "The meaning of Elohim" -- you have already conceded that the word means different things, including "angels" but then you ignore meaning and say that the text "identifies" angels as elohim as if "elohim" is a word external to angels.

2. "the meaning of the word for worship" -- that doesn't make any sense. The word for worship is the word for worship. It means worship. The problem is that you ignore the meaning of the word וישתחוו and all the places where it is not translated as "worship" (including translations you cited) and say it indicates worship.

You don't even know what you are claiming, so how can you ever hope to debate it? You also start with a central misunderstanding about Judaism which makes any conversation impossible. This all coupled with the unsubstantiated theology you have invented and the lack of demonstrable authority you have shown which would validate any of your personal claims would make any debate worthless. Go, live your life and I hope you successfully evolve from a larvae into an angel while you believe in your many gods.

The Brown-Driver-Briggs, often abbreviated as BDB, is a well-regarded lexicon of the Hebrew language as used in the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament. It was originally created by three biblical scholars: Francis Brown, Samuel Rolles Driver, and Charles Augustus Briggs. The BDB gives the following definition for the Hebrew word Elohim:

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
BDB Definition:
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God
Part of Speech: noun masculine plural
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: plural of H433

As you can see, according to BDB, this word has a quite broad frequency of usage. It's a masculine plural, that can be used to refer to multiple beings as a numeric plural noun or it can be used when referring to one individual as a plural intensive. The word is plural in form but not necessarily in usage. There are several words in biblical Hebrew that are plural in form, but singular in meaning. Here are a few examples:

1. 
   "Chaim" (חַיִּים) - This word means "life" in Hebrew and is commonly used as a given name. Although it is technically in the plural form, it is used to refer to an individual's life or the concept of life itself.
2. "Mayim" (מַיִם) - This word means "water" in Hebrew and is also plural in form. Even though it appears as a plural noun, it refers to water as a collective entity rather than multiple individual units of water.
3. "Yadayim" (יָדַיִם) - This word means "hands" in Hebrew and is plural in form. It is used to refer to a person's pair of hands, regardless of whether one or both hands are involved.
4. "Se'arot" (שְׂעָרוֹת) - This word means "hairs" or "locks of hair" in Hebrew and is plural in form. It is used to describe individual strands or locks of hair, even though it appears as a plural noun.

The "im" suffix at the end of the word, is the Hebrew way of pluralizing a word. I'm not using fancy academic or grammatical terms, so expect Rosend, like always, to pedantically make unnecessary demands and quibble about everything I say. In Hebrew, as in other languages, there can be exceptions and variations. For instance, the word "Elohim" (אֱלֹהִים), which is the plural form of "Eloah" (אֱלוֹהַּ), is often used in the Hebrew Bible to refer to God in the singular sense, despite its plural form. This usage is known as the "plural of majesty" or "royal plural," suggesting greatness and majesty, rather than indicating more than one entity. It can also be identified as the "plural intensive".

Biblical Hebrew doesn't have uppercase letters like ELOHIM (you can't write a word in CAPS in Hebrew) and hence the first letter of a Hebrew word is never uppercase as in English, where we would write the word "Elohim" with an uppercase "E" at the beginning of a sentence, or when that word refers to God almighty. Biblical Hebrew likewise, doesn't have lowercase letters. It doesn't "case" its letters. Elohim is related to the following Hebrew words:

H433
אלהּ / אלוהּ
'ĕlôahh
BDB Definition:
1) God
2) false god
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: probably prolonged (emphatically) from H410

and...

H410
אל
'êl
BDB Definition:
1) god, god-like one, mighty one
1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
1b) angels
1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
2) mighty things in nature
3) strength, power
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: shortened from H352


There is no value to this -- aside from the fact that I have already proven points (with sources and corroboration) in regards to these two topics, just look at how you present them...

Presenting sources and actually proving your point isn't the same.


1. "The meaning of Elohim" -- you have already conceded that the word means different things, including "angels"....

I never argued that the word Elohim, couldn't be applied to angels, on the contrary, my argument is that it can, hence there must be some quality of the angels that is similar to Hashem. If angels didn't share some type of trait or attribute with YHWH, they wouldn't be identified as Elohim or Bnai Elohim. Do you want to discuss this? Let's focus on what are the attributes that the heavenly holy spirits possess that make it appropriate if not necessary to identify their nature or function as Elohim/Bnai Elohim.

but then you ignore meaning and say that the text "identifies" angels as elohim as if "elohim" is a word external to angels.

It's you who is isolating the word from angels, not me. I believe YHWH is in essence, everything that exists (YHWH is existence itself, with all of its laws and attributes = The Good, The Bad & The Ugly/EVERYTHING). The heavenly holy spirits are the purest expression of YHWH, hence they are His צבאות = Tzva'ot/ יהוה צבאות / YHWH Tzva'ot. YHWH is fully invested in His angelic armies/assembly/body/קהל - Qahal. Existence itself will turn against you, by its very nature, when you align yourself with the patterns of thought and behavior that offend or undermine the natural living order. Existence has a teleology/telos/logic, an inherent purpose, and direction. That is the reality and power identified as YHWH or Elohim.

If angels align themselves with the purpose and logic of existence, keeping its Torah or commandments, they amass power and hence are identified as ELOHIM or Bnai Elohim (Sons/Children/Class/Category of Elohim). The truth is too terrifying and complex for you, unfortunately, not due to lack of intellect, but of sincerity and desire for the Truth.

You will never learn, you will remain in darkness, wearing black suits, in a futile effort to absorb the light. The light evades you, and your only result is perspiration and persecution. A peculiar people in ignorance are only worthy of pity and shame if not suspicion and fear by the goyim.

​

Are these the experts of YHWH who you're referring to? The baby peepee suckers are the only ones who can accurately define what and who YHWH is? Those who decided that their women should cover their hair with hair? Cover your beautiful, sexy hair with.......beautiful, sexy artificial hair.

​

Only the people who wear black suits and furry hats in mid-summer here in the upper west side of Manhattan and in Brooklyn, in 2023, could come up with that one. These are your supposed "experts" who define for everyone else what and who YHWH is. Amazing.

2. "the meaning of the word for worship" -- that doesn't make any sense. The word for worship is the word for worship. It means worship. The problem is that you ignore the meaning of the word וישתחוו and all the places where it is not translated as "worship" (including translations you cited) and say it indicates worship.

Why are you so knuckleheaded? Is it on purpose? Your kippah is too tight, restricting blood flow to your brain. That's what it is. You need to go to Talpios Gifts & Judaica and buy yourself a bigger kippah.

The word used in TaNaK for worship is the same word for prostration. It's the context that determines how the word is used. As you can see, in 1 Chronicles 28:20, the same single reference, to prostration used for what was directed to YHWH, is also the same prostration directed to David, the king, who sits on the very throne of YHWH. You can pretend there's no significance to that, but most rational people, including little stupid goyim, can figure that out. You can dance in circles there all day wearing your black furry hat and tight kippah but that's not going to help your argument kindele.

David sits on the throne of YHWH, representing His authority and majesty, hence He is worthy to be worshipped (venerated, revered, exalted, praised, and treated with the utmost respect) along with YHWH, within the exact same context (the worship of David on his throne, in virtue of his unique position, as king of Israel isn't idolatry, nor does it offend YHWH or His angels). They prostrated themselves, falling flat on their faces, before YHWH and His king (the embodiment of YHWH's majesty and presence = His earthly image). David is the Son of YHWH.

2 Samuel 7:14

"I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands."

Does YHWH get offended when His Son is exalted and venerated? That's essentially what "worship" is. You don't bow or prostrate yourself before idols, because that's an act of worship or veneration. You will do it for YHWH and his king, the one who sits on His throne. If you don't, well, your ancestors did.

And yes, Rashi concedes....

"Your throne, O judge (Elohim), [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom."

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16266/jewish/Chapter-45.htm

..that in the original Hebrew of that verse, the vocative case is used, not the nominative case. The word Elohim is directed, applied, to the one who sits on the divine throne of Hashem. Who is that person? David, maybe Solomon or even Hezekiah, for some scholars (which king of Israel, Psalms 45 was written for is open for debate). The point is, that the king of Israel can be identified as Elohim, just like the judges of Israel are identified as Elohim, because they sit in the position of king or judge for YHWH. They represent YHWH, embodying His majesty and authority. YHWH is there with them, ruling from the throne or as a judge.

2 Chronicles 19:5-7, King Jehoshaphat of Judah appoints judges and invokes YHWH's fear saying:

"5 He appointed judges in the land in all the fortified cities of Judah, city by city, 6 and said to the judges, 'Consider what you are doing, for you do not judge for man but for YHWH who is with you when you render judgment. 7 Now then let the fear of YHWH be upon you; be very careful what you do, for the Lord our God will have no part in unrighteousness or partiality or the taking of a bribe.'"

Be careful kindele, YHWH is judging with you, He is there present. Don't misrepresent Him. Judges are identified within their capacity of judging, passing their rulings, over the nation of Israel (i.e. the earthly Tzva'ot of YHWH, the bearers of His Shikinah = that is what the Jewish people are supposed to be), Elohim.

Exo 4:14-17 And the anger of YHWH was kindled against Moses, and He said: 'Is there not Aaron thy brother the Levite? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee; and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. (15) And thou shalt speak unto him, and put the words in his mouth, and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. (16) And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him in God's stead. (17) And thou shalt take in thy hand this rod, wherewith thou shalt do the signs.'

According to the above Jewish translation (JPS), Moses is Elohim to Aaron or "God", capital "G": "in God's stead". Do you understand English? Do you know what that means? He is functioning, at a limited level (human level), on behalf of Elohim, hence the strong language, that says: "you are Elohim to your brother, within the capacity of a divinely commissioned agent. You have authority over him and pharaoh - Exodus 7:1.

King David sitting on the throne of YHWH, is like Elohim to Israel, within His office or capacity of king over YHWH's kingdom.

1Ch_29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of YHWH as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.

1Ch_28:5 And of all my sons, (for YHWH hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of YHWH over Israel.

2Ch_13:8 And now ye think to withstand the kingdom of YHWH in the hand of the sons of David; and ye are a great multitude, and there are with you the golden calves which Jeroboam made you for gods.

Jer_3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of YHWH; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of YHWH, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk anymore after the imagination of their evil heart.
The one who sits on the throne of YHWH, over His Kingdom, in the capacity of King, representing His authority and majesty, is worthy of worship, hence the Israelites worshipped Him, as the Son of God, the King of Israel. Joshua Ben Nun worshipped the Sar/Prince, of YHWH's heavenly Tzva'ot (heavenly Israel) :

Jos 5:13-15 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand; and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him: 'Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?' (14) And he said: 'Nay, but I am SAR/Prince/Captain of the Tzva'ot/armies of YHWH ; I am now come.' And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said unto him: 'What saith my lord unto his servant?' (15) And the SAR/Prince/Captain of YHWH's Tzva'ot/armies said unto Joshua: 'Put off thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy.' And Joshua did so.

Exo 3:1-5 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. (2) And the angel of YHWH appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. (3) And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. (4) And when YHWH saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. (5) And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

YHWH Elohim is there with His angel, in the midst of the bush and he was also present before Joshua as Sar of the Tzva'ot. The ground (the environment) became sanctified, and holy, in the presence of YHWH. The angel in the bush is the instrument of Hashem and is worthy of the utmost respect (the Ark of the covenant will kill you if you touch it with unclean hands). That is what worship is, it's to render one's respect and reverence to someone.

Exo 3:5-8 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. (6) Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. (7) And YHWH said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; (8) And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

Moses was afraid to look upon the angel in the bush, for the angel is imbued with the presence of YHWH. To look upon the angel is to look upon YHWH, for he is the conduit of YHWH's presence and glory. This is why Moses was afraid to die, in the presence of a holy and powerful angel (holy spirit), conveying the presence of YHWH. When the angel "came down" to this physical world, YHWH was likewise, coming down. YHWH and His holy agents are as ONE. Not ontologically, but in function, when commissioned to carry out a task or work. This is why the official agents of YHWH, are often identified as "Elohim".

Judges 6:22-23:

"22 When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the YHWH, he exclaimed, 'Alas, ADONAI YHWH! I have seen the angel of YHWH face to face!' 23 But YHWH said to him, 'Peace! Do not be afraid. You are not going to die.'"

Exo 33:18-23 And he said: 'Show me, I pray Thee, Thy glory.' (19) And He said: 'I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of YHWH before thee, and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.' (20) And He said: 'Thou canst not see My face, for man shall not see Me and live.' (21) And YHWH said: 'Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon the rock. (22) And it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand until I have passed by. (23) And I will take away My hand, and thou shalt see My back; but My face shall not be seen.'

The angel speaks as YHWH saying "I will proclaim the Name of YHWH before thee" (third person), then speaks in the 1st person for YHWH. The being that is there in the physical environment is a luminous, immortal human being also known as an "angel" or Elohim. His actions are often synonymous with the actions of YHWH. He comes down, YHWH comes down, although in essence, YHWH is omnipresent. Who is the YHWH that comes down, to a place where he's already present? He comes down with His angel because the angel is functioning and embodying YHWH's presence and power. The face of the angel is the face of YHWH. The immortal, luminous human (anthropos), is in his service, ONE with YHWH. Sorry that offends you.

Genesis, chapter 48, verses 15-16:

"15 Then he blessed Joseph and said, 'May the God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked faithfully, the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, 16 the Angel who has delivered me from all harm, may he bless these boys. May they be called by my name and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac, and may they increase greatly on the earth.'"

YHWH Tzva'ot (Angels = Elohim / Bnai Elohim of the class/category of Elohim/Heavenly - Immortal Powers/Mighty Ones conveying YHWH's Glory)​

Mashiach prays:

THE TRUE AND ONLY MASHIACH​

Joh 17:21-24 (21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (22) And the honor which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (24)

ALL OF ISRAEL BECOMES AS ONE IN MASHIACH
​

You don't even know what you are claiming.....

I know exactly what I'm claiming, and the fact that it is true. There, how was that?

...so how can you ever hope to debate it?

That's your cheap, pathetic excuse for not debating me, formally on a specific issue. You are running away from a genuine discourse, where we can focus on one issue and then move on to another one, when we are finished presenting our arguments, for that one topic. I am willing to do that, you apparently aren't.

You also start with a central misunderstanding about Judaism which makes any conversation impossible.

What is that? Be specific.

This all coupled with the unsubstantiated theology you have invented and the lack of demonstrable authority you have shown which would validate any of your personal claims would make any debate worthless.

Everything that I claim has a biblical foundation. It's your rabbinic-Talmudic, Judaic, "Kabbalah" theology that is offbase, not mine.

Go, live your life and I hope you successfully evolve from a larvae into an angel..

We should all hope we evolve passed this physical, mortal state (larval condition), to actual life in the higher worlds. Life here is but a shadow of what is above and so are we. And by the way, let this sink in to your thick skull: There is no life after death, apart from resurrection (re-creation). The rabbis that are telling you that you are inherently immortal and that your nefesh and neshama (and all of the other imaginary parts of human nature they invented) are going to fly out of your body...

​

...are lying to you. They are also wearing tight kippot, like you (restricting blood flow to the brain). Reincarnation has nothing to do with the faith of Israel, it's a non-biblical belief. Death is nothing, just like it was before we were born. The dead know nothing and can only be brought back to sentience, under the power of YHWH or one of His angels. We will literally sleep until the day of recreation. Fear YHWH, and love His Mashiach.

...while you believe in your many gods.

The Bnai Elohim, are "immortal powers"/conduits and tabernacles of YHWH's presence. That offends you, because the Bible offends you. Put down the Talmud, Zohar, and Tanya, and study the TaNaK and words of Mashiach in the gospels. Jewish people like you hate the truth, hence your self-inflicted suffering and stupidity. Jews, especially religious Jews, are offended by everything. Here lighten up:

​

 

[irosie91]

The Brown-Driver-Briggs, often abbreviated as BDB, is a well-regarded lexicon of the Hebrew language as used in the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament. It was originally created by three biblical scholars: Francis Brown, Samuel Rolles Driver, and Charles Augustus Briggs. The BDB gives the following definition for the Hebrew word Elohim:

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
BDB Definition:
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God
Part of Speech: noun masculine plural
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: plural of H433

As you can see, according to BDB, this word has a quite broad frequency of usage. It's a masculine plural, that can be used to refer to multiple beings as a numeric plural noun or it can be used when referring to one individual as a plural intensive. The word is plural in form but not necessarily in usage. There are several words in biblical Hebrew that are plural in form, but singular in meaning. Here are a few examples:

1. 
   "Chaim" (חַיִּים) - This word means "life" in Hebrew and is commonly used as a given name. Although it is technically in the plural form, it is used to refer to an individual's life or the concept of life itself.
2. "Mayim" (מַיִם) - This word means "water" in Hebrew and is also plural in form. Even though it appears as a plural noun, it refers to water as a collective entity rather than multiple individual units of water.
3. "Yadayim" (יָדַיִם) - This word means "hands" in Hebrew and is plural in form. It is used to refer to a person's pair of hands, regardless of whether one or both hands are involved.
4. "Se'arot" (שְׂעָרוֹת) - This word means "hairs" or "locks of hair" in Hebrew and is plural in form. It is used to describe individual strands or locks of hair, even though it appears as a plural noun.

The "im" suffix at the end of the word, is the Hebrew way of pluralizing a word. I'm not using fancy academic or grammatical terms, so expect Rosend, like always, to pedantically make unnecessary demands and quibble about everything I say. In Hebrew, as in other languages, there can be exceptions and variations. For instance, the word "Elohim" (אֱלֹהִים), which is the plural form of "Eloah" (אֱלוֹהַּ), is often used in the Hebrew Bible to refer to God in the singular sense, despite its plural form. This usage is known as the "plural of majesty" or "royal plural," suggesting greatness and majesty, rather than indicating more than one entity. It can also be identified as the "plural intensive".

Biblical Hebrew doesn't have uppercase letters like ELOHIM (you can't write a word in CAPS in Hebrew) and hence the first letter of a Hebrew word is never uppercase as in English, where we would write the word "Elohim" with an uppercase "E" at the beginning of a sentence, or when that word refers to God almighty. Biblical Hebrew likewise, doesn't have lowercase letters. It doesn't "case" its letters. Elohim is related to the following Hebrew words:

H433
אלהּ / אלוהּ
'ĕlôahh
BDB Definition:
1) God
2) false god
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: probably prolonged (emphatically) from H410

and...

H410
אל
'êl
BDB Definition:
1) god, god-like one, mighty one
1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
1b) angels
1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
2) mighty things in nature
3) strength, power
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: shortened from H352



There is no value to this -- aside from the fact that I have already proven points (with sources and corroboration) in regards to these two topics, just look at how you present them...

Presenting sources and actually proving your point isn't the same.


1. "The meaning of Elohim" -- you have already conceded that the word means different things, including "angels"....

I never argued that the word Elohim, couldn't be applied to angels, on the contrary, my argument is that it can, hence there must be some quality of the angels that is similar to Hashem. If angels didn't share some type of trait or attribute with YHWH, they wouldn't be identified as Elohim or Bnai Elohim. Do you want to discuss this? Let's focus on what are the attributes that the heavenly holy spirits possess that make it appropriate if not necessary to identify their nature or function as Elohim/Bnai Elohim.

but then you ignore meaning and say that the text "identifies" angels as elohim as if "elohim" is a word external to angels.

It's you who is isolating the word from angels, not me. I believe YHWH is in essence, everything that exists (YHWH is existence itself, with all of its laws and attributes = The Good, The Bad & The Ugly/EVERYTHING). The heavenly holy spirits are the purest expression of YHWH, hence they are His צבאות = Tzva'ot/ יהוה צבאות / YHWH Tzva'ot. YHWH is fully invested in His angelic armies/assembly/body/קהל - Qahal. Existence itself will turn against you, by its very nature, when you align yourself with the patterns of thought and behavior that offend or undermine the natural living order. Existence has a teleology/telos/logic, an inherent purpose, and direction. That is the reality and power identified as YHWH or Elohim.

If angels align themselves with the purpose and logic of existence, keeping its Torah or commandments, they amass power and hence are identified as ELOHIM or Bnai Elohim (Sons/Children/Class/Category of Elohim). The truth is too terrifying and complex for you, unfortunately, not due to lack of intellect, but of sincerity and desire for the Truth.

You will never learn, you will remain in darkness, wearing black suits, in a futile effort to absorb the light. The light evades you, and your only result is perspiration and persecution. A peculiar people in ignorance are only worthy of pity and shame if not suspicion and fear by the goyim.

​

Are these the experts of YHWH who you're referring to? The baby peepee suckers are the only ones who can accurately define what and who YHWH is? Those who decided that their women should cover their hair with hair? Cover your beautiful, sexy hair with.......beautiful, sexy artificial hair.

​

Only the people who wear black suits and furry hats in mid-summer here in the upper west side of Manhattan and in Brooklyn, in 2023, could come up with that one. These are your supposed "experts" who define for everyone else what and who YHWH is. Amazing.

2. "the meaning of the word for worship" -- that doesn't make any sense. The word for worship is the word for worship. It means worship. The problem is that you ignore the meaning of the word וישתחוו and all the places where it is not translated as "worship" (including translations you cited) and say it indicates worship.

Why are you so knuckleheaded? Is it on purpose? Your kippah is too tight, restricting blood flow to your brain. That's what it is. You need to go to Talpios Gifts & Judaica and buy yourself a bigger kippah.

The word used in TaNaK for worship is the same word for prostration. It's the context that determines how the word is used. As you can see, in 1 Chronicles 28:20, the same single reference, to prostration used for what was directed to YHWH, is also the same prostration directed to David, the king, who sits on the very throne of YHWH. You can pretend there's no significance to that, but most rational people, including little stupid goyim, can figure that out. You can dance in circles there all day wearing your black furry hat and tight kippah but that's not going to help your argument kindele.

David sits on the throne of YHWH, representing His authority and majesty, hence He is worthy to be worshipped (venerated, revered, exalted, praised, and treated with the utmost respect) along with YHWH, within the exact same context (the worship of David on his throne, in virtue of his unique position, as king of Israel isn't idolatry, nor does it offend YHWH or His angels). They prostrated themselves, falling flat on their faces, before YHWH and His king (the embodiment of YHWH's majesty and presence = His earthly image). David is the Son of YHWH.

2 Samuel 7:14

"I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands."

Does YHWH get offended when His Son is exalted and venerated? That's essentially what "worship" is. You don't bow or prostrate yourself before idols, because that's an act of worship or veneration. You will do it for YHWH and his king, the one who sits on His throne. If you don't, well, your ancestors did.

And yes, Rashi concedes....

"Your throne, O judge (Elohim), [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom."

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16266/jewish/Chapter-45.htm

..that in the original Hebrew of that verse, the vocative case is used, not the nominative case. The word Elohim is directed, applied, to the one who sits on the divine throne of Hashem. Who is that person? David, maybe Solomon or even Hezekiah, for some scholars (which king of Israel, Psalms 45 was written for is open for debate). The point is, that the king of Israel can be identified as Elohim, just like the judges of Israel are identified as Elohim, because they sit in the position of king or judge for YHWH. They represent YHWH, embodying His majesty and authority. YHWH is there with them, ruling from the throne or as a judge.

2 Chronicles 19:5-7, King Jehoshaphat of Judah appoints judges and invokes YHWH's fear saying:

"5 He appointed judges in the land in all the fortified cities of Judah, city by city, 6 and said to the judges, 'Consider what you are doing, for you do not judge for man but for YHWH who is with you when you render judgment. 7 Now then let the fear of YHWH be upon you; be very careful what you do, for the Lord our God will have no part in unrighteousness or partiality or the taking of a bribe.'"

Be careful kindele, YHWH is judging with you, He is there present. Don't misrepresent Him. Judges are identified within their capacity of judging, passing their rulings, over the nation of Israel (i.e. the earthly Tzva'ot of YHWH, the bearers of His Shikinah = that is what the Jewish people are supposed to be), Elohim.

Exo 4:14-17 And the anger of YHWH was kindled against Moses, and He said: 'Is there not Aaron thy brother the Levite? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee; and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. (15) And thou shalt speak unto him, and put the words in his mouth, and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. (16) And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him in God's stead. (17) And thou shalt take in thy hand this rod, wherewith thou shalt do the signs.'

According to the above Jewish translation (JPS), Moses is Elohim to Aaron or "God", capital "G": "in God's stead". Do you understand English? Do you know what that means? He is functioning, at a limited level (human level), on behalf of Elohim, hence the strong language, that says: "you are Elohim to your brother, within the capacity of a divinely commissioned agent. You have authority over him and pharaoh - Exodus 7:1.

King David sitting on the throne of YHWH, is like Elohim to Israel, within His office or capacity of king over YHWH's kingdom.

1Ch_29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of YHWH as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.

1Ch_28:5 And of all my sons, (for YHWH hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of YHWH over Israel.

2Ch_13:8 And now ye think to withstand the kingdom of YHWH in the hand of the sons of David; and ye are a great multitude, and there are with you the golden calves which Jeroboam made you for gods.

Jer_3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of YHWH; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of YHWH, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk anymore after the imagination of their evil heart.
The one who sits on the throne of YHWH, over His Kingdom, in the capacity of King, representing His authority and majesty, is worthy of worship, hence the Israelites worshipped Him, as the Son of God, the King of Israel. Joshua Ben Nun worshipped the Sar/Prince, of YHWH's heavenly Tzva'ot (heavenly Israel) :

Jos 5:13-15 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand; and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him: 'Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?' (14) And he said: 'Nay, but I am SAR/Prince/Captain of the Tzva'ot/armies of YHWH ; I am now come.' And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said unto him: 'What saith my lord unto his servant?' (15) And the SAR/Prince/Captain of YHWH's Tzva'ot/armies said unto Joshua: 'Put off thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy.' And Joshua did so.

Exo 3:1-5 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. (2) And the angel of YHWH appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. (3) And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. (4) And when YHWH saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. (5) And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

YHWH Elohim is there with His angel, in the midst of the bush and he was also present before Joshua as Sar of the Tzva'ot. The ground (the environment) became sanctified, and holy, in the presence of YHWH. The angel in the bush is the instrument of Hashem and is worthy of the utmost respect (the Ark of the covenant will kill you if you touch it with unclean hands). That is what worship is, it's to render one's respect and reverence to someone.

Exo 3:5-8 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. (6) Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. (7) And YHWH said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; (8) And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

Moses was afraid to look upon the angel in the bush, for the angel is imbued with the presence of YHWH. To look upon the angel is to look upon YHWH, for he is the conduit of YHWH's presence and glory. This is why Moses was afraid to die, in the presence of a holy and powerful angel (holy spirit), conveying the presence of YHWH. When the angel "came down" to this physical world, YHWH was likewise, coming down. YHWH and His holy agents are as ONE. Not ontologically, but in function, when commissioned to carry out a task or work. This is why the official agents of YHWH, are often identified as "Elohim".

Judges 6:22-23:

"22 When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the YHWH, he exclaimed, 'Alas, ADONAI YHWH! I have seen the angel of YHWH face to face!' 23 But YHWH said to him, 'Peace! Do not be afraid. You are not going to die.'"

Exo 33:18-23 And he said: 'Show me, I pray Thee, Thy glory.' (19) And He said: 'I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of YHWH before thee, and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.' (20) And He said: 'Thou canst not see My face, for man shall not see Me and live.' (21) And YHWH said: 'Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon the rock. (22) And it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand until I have passed by. (23) And I will take away My hand, and thou shalt see My back; but My face shall not be seen.'

The angel speaks as YHWH saying "I will proclaim the Name of YHWH before thee" (third person), then speaks in the 1st person for YHWH. The being that is there in the physical environment is a luminous, immortal human being also known as an "angel" or Elohim. His actions are often synonymous with the actions of YHWH. He comes down, YHWH comes down, although in essence, YHWH is omnipresent. Who is the YHWH that comes down, to a place where he's already present? He comes down with His angel because the angel is functioning and embodying YHWH's presence and power. The face of the angel is the face of YHWH. The immortal, luminous human (anthropos), is in his service, ONE with YHWH. Sorry that offends you.

Genesis, chapter 48, verses 15-16:

"15 Then he blessed Joseph and said, 'May the God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked faithfully, the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, 16 the Angel who has delivered me from all harm, may he bless these boys. May they be called by my name and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac, and may they increase greatly on the earth.'"

View attachment 797388
YHWH Tzva'ot (Angels = Elohim / Bnai Elohim of the class/category of Elohim/Heavenly - Immortal Powers/Mighty Ones conveying YHWH's Glory)​

Mashiach prays:

View attachment 797393
THE TRUE AND ONLY MASHIACH​

Joh 17:21-24 (21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (22) And the honor which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (24)

ALL OF ISRAEL BECOMES AS ONE IN MASHIACH
​

You don't even know what you are claiming.....

I know exactly what I'm claiming, and the fact that it is true. There, how was that?

...so how can you ever hope to debate it?

That's your cheap, pathetic excuse for not debating me, formally on a specific issue. You are running away from a genuine discourse, where we can focus on one issue and then move on to another one, when we are finished presenting our arguments, for that one topic. I am willing to do that, you apparently aren't.

You also start with a central misunderstanding about Judaism which makes any conversation impossible.

What is that? Be specific.

This all coupled with the unsubstantiated theology you have invented and the lack of demonstrable authority you have shown which would validate any of your personal claims would make any debate worthless.

Everything that I claim has a biblical foundation. It's your rabbinic-Talmudic, Judaic, "Kabbalah" theology that is offbase, not mine.

Go, live your life and I hope you successfully evolve from a larvae into an angel..

We should all hope we evolve passed this physical, mortal state (larval condition), to actual life in the higher worlds. Life here is but a shadow of what is above and so are we. And by the way, let this sink in to your thick skull: There is no life after death, apart from resurrection (re-creation). The rabbis that are telling you that you are inherently immortal and that your nefesh and neshama (and all of the other imaginary parts of human nature they invented) are going to fly out of your body...

View attachment 797395
​

...are lying to you. They are also wearing tight kippot, like you (restricting blood flow to the brain). Reincarnation has nothing to do with the faith of Israel, it's a non-biblical belief. Death is nothing, just like it was before we were born. The dead know nothing and can only be brought back to sentience, under the power of YHWH or one of His angels. We will literally sleep until the day of recreation. Fear YHWH, and love His Mashiach.

...while you believe in your many gods.

The Bnai Elohim, are "immortal powers"/conduits and tabernacles of YHWH's presence. That offends you, because the Bible offends you. Put down the Talmud, Zohar, and Tanya, and study the TaNaK and words of Mashiach in the gospels. Jewish people like you hate the truth, hence your self-inflicted suffering and stupidity. Jews, especially religious Jews, are offended by everything. Here lighten up:

​

LMAO at the christian scholars who "INTERPRET HEBREW"

 

[TruthNotBS]

LMAO at the christian scholars who "INTERPRET HEBREW"

What Hebrew Lexicons and Dictionaries do you consider kosher? Go ahead kindele, cite a few of them. The TaNaK itself defines Elohim, and the BDB basis all of its definitions on TaNaK.

 

[AsherN]

What Hebrew Lexicons and Dictionaries do you consider kosher? Go ahead kindele, cite a few of them. The TaNaK itself defines Elohim, and the BDB basis all of its definitions on TaNaK.

We don't rely on lexicon. We read Hebrew, or study with someone who does. My Rabbi is fluent in both Hebrew and Aramaic.

 

[TruthNotBS]

We don't rely on lexicon. We read Hebrew, or study with someone who does. My Rabbi is fluent in both Hebrew and Aramaic.

I read Hebrew as well, however, the Lexicons go in-depth into the biblical meaning and usage of Hebrew words, with their roots and etymologies. If you want to poopoo that, go ahead. Not too bright.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Typo correction: 1 Chronicle 28:20 is actually 1 Chron 29:20.

 

[DudleySmith]

I read Hebrew as well, however, the Lexicons go in-depth into the biblical meaning and usage of Hebrew words, with their roots and etymologies. If you want to poopoo that, go ahead. Not too bright.

Some of the Jewish cults practice abrogation, which is where their Muslim brothers get the practice. They also practice taqiyya, also where Muslims got that tradition.

 

[irosie91]

What Hebrew Lexicons and Dictionaries do you consider kosher? Go ahead kindele, cite a few of them. The TaNaK itself defines Elohim, and the BDB basis all of its definitions on TaNaK.

You cannot learn---EVEN SPANISH ---by google. Do you know what SU MADRE means? Feel
free to ask questions-----my hubby is right here

 

[TruthNotBS]

You cannot learn---EVEN SPANISH ---by google. Do you know what SU MADRE means? Feel
free to ask questions-----my hubby is right here

Half of my family is Cuban, so I know Spanish. The phrase "su madre", is "your mother" and it can be used as an insult. Su madre, or tu madre. Yo hablo espanol pero no lo escribo, muy bien.

 

[irosie91]

Half of my family is Cuban, so I know Spanish. The phrase "su madre", is "your mother" and it can be used as an insult. Su madre, or tu madre. Yo hablo espanol pero no lo escribo, muy bien.

VERY GOOD-----uhm I know romper room level spanish. I was taking a medical history from
an Hispanic patient in my baby spanish. There was a cute Hispanic secretary near by. I tried to
get into family medical history--------and I said Y SU MADRE???? ---the hispanic girl JUMPED!!!
SHE SAID "DON'T SAY SU MADRE" OK "SU MADRE" is something like "EMAK" or
ACHTAH" in arabic (I have that from my hubby who was born in a shariah shit hole) There
are shades of meaning in language----that do not come out GOOGLE. Hubby know shades
in Hebrew and Aramaic-----His community lived in arabia even before the rapist pig of arabia
was born (uhm---even before YESHU was born) For shades of meaning-----feel free to ask

 

[rosends]

Some of the Jewish cults practice abrogation, which is where their Muslim brothers get the practice. They also practice taqiyya, also where Muslims got that tradition.

Can you provide evidence for these claim? The last thing you claimed never got supported.

 

[DudleySmith]

Can you provide evidence for these claim? The last thing you claimed never got supported.

Already posted, several times. You keep claiming otherwise, which means you don't read links at all, so just keep lying about your Orthodox and Hasidim super racists. We don't mind. The modes here will censor anything you don't like, so just snivel to one of them.